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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

Message added by PJTierney

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I don't play RX as much as I play rally but I understand that for some it's the total opposite. I would definitely not want RX to go the numbered Dirt series route and become an arcade mode.

I am really hoping that we get a complete physics overhaul in the next game that does away with the center pivot model. In addition to a change in general vehicle physics, it would be nice if it included things like a new suspension system and modeling, tire modelling (including deformation, deflection, pressure, temperature and surface interaction) etc. I want the cars to behave more realistically. When I am driving in Dirt Rally 2.0, it often seems like the car rotates or slides sideways in an unnatural way. Also, we really need a rework on how AI is done on both rally and RX.

Do cars behave strangely and snap oversteer without any apparent reason for anyone else in rally stages? I am thinking this strange behavior is the result of the center pivot physics. It occurs in certain turns no matter my throttle input. At first I thought it was because I was getting on the throttle too quickly, letting off the throttle too abruptly or braking too aggressively. I paid attention to my inputs on the corners it was occuring and it does it no matter what I do. The only thing I can do is pay attention to how quickly the car is rotating visually and counter steer which sometimes isn't enough and the car still spins. If anyone else experiences this and has an explanation or ideas, please let me know. I have been playing the game since shortly after release and am usually a Tier 1/Tier 2 driver on rally dailies and Tier 2/Tier 1 on RX on all platforms, yet this still catches me out sometimes without warning.

Edited by FlatOverCrest

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On 10/19/2020 at 3:39 PM, FlatOverCrest said:

I don't play RX as much as I play rally but I understand that for some it's the total opposite. I would definitely not want RX to go the numbered Dirt series route and become an arcade mode. I am really hoping that we get a complete physics overhaul in the next game (goodbye center pivot model) and a total rework on how AI is done on both rally and RX.

Do cars behave strangely and snap oversteer without any apparent reason for anyone else in rally stages? I am thinking this strange behavior is the result of the center pivot physics. It occurs in certain turns no matter my throttle input. At first I thought it was because I was getting on the throttle too quickly, letting off the throttle too abruptly or braking too aggressively. I paid attention to my inputs on the corners it was occuring and it does it no matter what I do. The only thing I can do is pay attention to how quickly the car is rotating visually and counter steer which sometimes isn't enough and the car still spins. If anyone else experiences this and has an explanation or ideas, please let me know. I have been playing the game since shortly after release and am usually a Tier 1/Tier 2 driver on rally dailies and Tier 2/Tier 1 on RX on all platforms, yet this still catches me out sometimes without warning.

 

the visual physics of the suspensions are not good in DR 2.0, this accentuates the pivot effect

Edited by gk9147
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This 'center pivot' idea about car physics has been around for a long time, but it appears to derive from people using chase-cam instead of on-board cameras. Chase cam will always give the impression of a centre-pivot because the camera itself pivots to keep the car centred in the screen, giving the impression the car is on a single vertical pole.

I sincerely heavily doubt there is anything like that in the actual physics of the game.

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Center pivot based car rotation is an actual physics implementation used in several racing games, including rally games (i.e. previous Colin McRae Rally games and possibly even recent GT games) not just an idea derived from people using chase cam. I think Dirt Rally 2.0 does use some modified, complex form of a center pivot based car physics model. They may adjust where the center pivot point is in each car and have multiple variables like tires/surface interaction/mass play a role in the yaw rate but I still think it's there. I think using chase cam just makes the usage of a center pivot more obvious. It seems more noticeable with the shorter wheelbase cars and while using chase cam. Several people credit some of the strange asphalt handling symptoms in this game to the usage of a center pivot car rotation model. I always play with cockpit cam in Dirt Rally 2.0 but I still notice it and wish the physics model was changed to something more modern and realistic. Cars sometimes rotate and push sideways in a strange manner that seems unrealistic and unnatural. I'm not asking for change, just for change's sake. If it's not going to be an improvement over DR 2.0 and more realistic then please leave it the way it is (minus asphalt handling, asphalt handling absolutely needs to change). I definitely don't want it to be worse. I could also be wrong about all of this but I am speaking up because I think it can be improved. Like many others, I just want future Codemasters' sim titles (DR 3.0, WRC, etc.) to be even better. Saying all that, it's still my favorite rally game with some of the best controller handling I have ever experienced on any racing game to date.

Edited by FlatOverCrest
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On 10/19/2020 at 4:06 PM, gk9147 said:

the visual physics of the suspensions are not good in DR 2.0, this accentuates the pivot effect

Yeah, I agree. Watch the first 15 seconds of this video. Although DR2.0 has better physics, the way the car behaves and the suspension movements look more natural/realistic in DR1. Meanwhile, in DR2.0 the 'center pivot' physics is more noticeable.

 

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18 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

This 'center pivot' idea about car physics has been around for a long time, but it appears to derive from people using chase-cam instead of on-board cameras. Chase cam will always give the impression of a centre-pivot because the camera itself pivots to keep the car centred in the screen, giving the impression the car is on a single vertical pole.

I sincerely heavily doubt there is anything like that in the actual physics of the game.

honestly I play in cockpit view and in dirt rally I have the impression of driving a cube, we do not see the car swaying when we brake or we accelerate or lean to one side when we take a turn, this physics of the suspensions are on DR 1 and Pcars 2 but not on DR 2.0

look 1:30 modern car 

look 2:35 onboard  historic car suspension 

 

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Hi. Any chance of unlocking downloaded cars for liverys to be added. It would be a great Christmas present for all 🙂

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13 hours ago, Kenny1962 said:

Hi. Any chance of unlocking downloaded cars for liverys to be added. It would be a great Christmas present for all 🙂

No plans to change this, sorry.

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Some surprising choices there, especially with regards to the rallycross cars. No sign of the Megane in the top five rallycross cars, though it is the fastest car in class. Also surprised to see the Polo Supercar so high when it is underpowered (that said, I still use it for the looks!). 

Surprised the Golf is that high in the rally cars as well: lot of people using the Mini and Golf to get to grips with the game perhaps? 

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Yeah, it is interesting.

9 million players is quite huge tbh, though doesn't day anything ofcourse about how many copies are sold, especially people might borrow it for a short time from a friend, or multiple accounts on a console, or using different account for different purposes (esports/private), etc. Next to that i though it has been free for certain users on Xbox and PS. So yes. 9 million might be than quite easy to achieve. I would really like to know than how many copies have been sold or how many players have played the game for a solid amount of hours, let's say at least more than 4 hours. 

Also would like to know what are the most played RX tacks.

Also the most favorite cars to be used are very debatable imo. I would like to know where this is based on. Is this based on used in amount of times selected/ued or based on km driven. 

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On steamspy it estimates between 500k-1million sold copies on PC. That is pretty good for a racing game! Project Cars 2 has the same estimation and Assetto Corsa: Competizione have 200k-500k to give  examples with games that most of us know about.

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thats the problem with figures. 500 - 1 million. thats a big gap. actual users who play would be great.

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/690790

 

9 million,  2000 online. daily. on pc. marketing exercise most likely. i wonder if trials and such are counted or just sales. on consoles its been free or trial a lot. still a good thing. gets the brand known.

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34 minutes ago, dgeesi0 said:

https://steamcharts.com/app/690790

9 million,  2000 online. daily. on pc. marketing exercise most likely. i wonder if trials and such are counted or just sales. on consoles its been free or trial a lot. still a good thing. gets the brand known.

That's comparing current activity to lifetime activity, 2 different metrics.

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9 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

That's comparing current activity to lifetime activity, 2 different metrics.

i know but if you think 9 million people play dirt rally 2.0 then i dont know what to say...

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52 minutes ago, dgeesi0 said:

i know but if you think 9 million people play dirt rally 2.0 then i dont know what to say...

Im sure no one thinks that theres 9 million players that are actively playing DR2. But I think theres quite a lot thats actually still play it. I checked the daily from yesterday and there was 4165 that had joined it. I can only speak for myself but it took a couple of months before i even started getting into dailys and such and my guess is that a huge part just stick to singleplayer.

Another example is last weeks weekly challenge which had 8245 participants.

Edited by somethingthing

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18 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

thats the problem with figures. 500 - 1 million. thats a big gap. actual users who play would be great.

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/690790

 

9 million,  2000 online. daily. on pc. marketing exercise most likely. i wonder if trials and such are counted or just sales. on consoles its been free or trial a lot. still a good thing. gets the brand known.

 

What's counted:

  • If you ever fired up DR2, in any form, you're counted as a player. 

 

17 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:
18 hours ago, JZStudios said:

That's comparing current activity to lifetime activity, 2 different metrics.



i know but if you think 9 million people play dirt rally 2.0 then i dont know what to say...

 

"Play" and "Played at least once" are two different things, this story is about the latter.

 

17 hours ago, somethingthing said:

Im sure no one thinks that theres 9 million players that are actively playing DR2. But I think theres quite a lot thats actually still play it. I checked the daily from yesterday and there was 4165 that had joined it. I can only speak for myself but it took a couple of months before i even started getting into dailys and such and my guess is that a huge part just stick to singleplayer.

Another example is last weeks weekly challenge which had 8245 participants.

 

We know the CCU (concurrent users) in real-time, it's how we can tell if there's a server outage. It's usually quite a bit higher than Dailies/Weeklies since it covers everything (TT, Career etc.).

It's not a number we'd share publicly though, whereas how many accounts were created to play this game, that is a number we can share.

 

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I love statistics.

Would really like to know, how much of that goes on my account 😄 
Trueachievements.com still says I did the most stages and kms driven on xbox so far.


I'm not so much surprised about the choosen cars, but I used the Fulvia waaaaaaaay more than the Cooper, because of the sound. And design.

My most driven cars are probably:

1. Ford Fiesta R5
2. Lancia Fulvia HF
3. SUBARU Impreza (2001)
4. SUBARU Impreza 1995
5. Ford Fiesta R2

Not my most favourite ones, but probably class favourites.
While I love Group B 4WD and RWD (every RWD class), I don't drive them so often, because I need to be full conentrated when using them.


New Zealand is my most driven rally probably too and my 2nd most favourite location.
Scotland is the new 1st!

Edited by UnderclassGDfan

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22 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

i know but if you think 9 million people play dirt rally 2.0 then i dont know what to say...

Once again, lifetime and active are 2 very different metrics. Your favorite movie was probably seen by millions on release, but now no ones watching it currently so therefore no one's ever seen the movie. Or at any point since release.

 

4 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

I'm not so much surprised about the choosen cars, but I used the Fulvia waaaaaaaay more than the Cooper, because of the sound. And design.

The Fulvia also easily outclasses the Mini.

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I pressed 'play' on the Project CARS videos and immediately started looking for the mosquito in my room...

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Do anyone else think that the tarmac on gravel stages feels better than in actual tarmac stages? Its a bit difficult to just say that its actually better considering the small time you drive on it each time but id probably drive more tarmac rally if it had the same feeling. Now I just stay away from it.

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a simple way around the lack lustre tarmac handling or the feel would to just narrow stages down. if you arent driving down 3 car motorways and only car width events you wouldnt feel the exagerated bad handling . it would just be small sharp movements. it would even make it more exciting.

i do long for fast narrow events such as ireland italy many places across the planet. for some reason dirt just seems to avoid doing these type of events.

tarmac has to made better for the next game or given a high enough priority to be devled into with enough time to make it far better than it is.

whether its deemed worth it or not i guess we will see in the next game. its the only real thing missing from making dirt rally games the best on the market.

thing is WRC events will be interesting as many of those are narrow stages. so it will be interesting if this will be followed or the wider event style will still happen for the masses.

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5 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

a simple way around the lack lustre tarmac handling or the feel would to just narrow stages down. if you arent driving down 3 car motorways and only car width events you wouldnt feel the exagerated bad handling . it would just be small sharp movements. it would even make it more exciting.

I still feel like tarmac was way better in the alpha build. I don't know what they did to it. Then again I haven't tried Germany since frankly, I'm not paying for it.

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