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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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I never had a XBox in any shape or form, I went from PS1 to 2 and then didn't really game much till I started building this PC. In GT I just used to start at the back because all the AI drivers in qualifying were way ahead of me anyway. For some reason, the AI then dumbed down when you came to race them and I always had an easy lead. I now prefer the solo endeavours like DR when you can just beat your own PB and don't even have to worry about championships if you so wish.

That said I've been playing a lot more RPG's and shooters recently and haven't driven for months. I'll probably reset Dirt Rally when I get back to it as I'll be way too rusty to beat any previous PB's.

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4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

*adds to wishlist*

Rally3 cars in DiRT Rally 3.0 = CONFIRMED

Also, @F2CMaDMaXX reacted to the post, for some reason he always has inside information. 👀

  • Haha 4

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The dirt racing in GT4 is kind of terrible. It's much more akin to ice racing in that you never actually seem to have any amount of actual traction and the Grand Canyon course is very tight with very close barriers and slowdown dirt banks. It's way easier to get used to DR and DR2... or any other game with dirt racing I've tried.

As an aside, the Enthusia Library music is way too good for something people won't ever hear. The whole soundtrack is actually pretty good.

 

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8 hours ago, JZStudios said:

The dirt racing in GT4 is kind of terrible. It's much more akin to ice racing in that you never actually seem to have any amount of actual traction and the Grand Canyon course is very tight with very close barriers and slowdown dirt banks. It's way easier to get used to DR and DR2... or any other game with dirt racing I've tried.

As an aside, the Enthusia Library music is way too good for something people won't ever hear. The whole soundtrack is actually pretty good.

 

😂

 

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4 hours ago, gk9147 said:

😂

 

That seems way too intense for just a car dealership. It actually has a rising tension, it kind of sounds like some of the pre-race menu music in Enthusia.

The song I posted would be in the menu equivalent to the replay theater, it's energetic, has sick bass, and some cool guitar riffs with interspersed piano, yet remains relatively relaxed. Like a cool jazz club or something.

Edited by JZStudios
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That Enthusia track is like something Luther Vandross would sing over the top of. I miss that era when pop still encompassed light jazz. As opposed to what came from the late 90s onwards, ie braying hussies over garbage loops

Wish I'd discovered Enthusia back in the day, can't believe I never heard of it whilst hammering RBR on my PS2.

 

Edited by Jake Cushing

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2 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

That Enthusia track is like something Luther Vandross would sing over the top of. I miss that era when pop still encompassed light jazz. As opposed to what came from the late 90s onwards, ie braying hussies over garbage loops

Wish I'd discovered Enthusia back in the day, can't believe I never heard of it whilst hammering RBR on my PS2.

Didn't know who Luther Vandross was, but I can see it.

To be fair, it seems a bit **** with a controller. Then again, PCSX2 doesn't actually do analog buttons, and I don't have an analog button controller to try it with. Feels great with a wheel though.

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5 hours ago, JZStudios said:

To be fair, it seems a bit **** with a controller. Then again, PCSX2 doesn't actually do analog buttons, and I don't have an analog button controller to try it with. Feels great with a wheel though.

Well, RBR was pretty horrid with a controller.

But back then, if you were blessed with an actual sim on a console, and that's all you had, you'd do what that guy in Edge of Tomorrow tells Tom Cruise when Cruise says 'I've never used this before', ie begging for help with his exo-suit

"Well I've never been with two girls at once before, but if it happened, I'd make it work"

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12 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

"Well I've never been with two girls at once before, but if it happened, I'd make it work"

Office Space quotes (@OfficespaceBL) | Twitter

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5 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

Speaking of doubling up, @PJTierney is there any word on whether DR2.0 hits 120fps on the Xbox Series S/X and PS5?

I believe the framerate is capped at 60, so it'll stay at 60.

There's no update planned.

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On 9/28/2020 at 12:13 PM, MattyH1812 said:

Also we have 4 random AI drivers on the 2019 grid now... Same nationalities as the 4 GRX driversUntitled.jpg.15cc67c1c324d4a88068dcd77ba892a2.jpg

Whilst Timo Scheider, Mandie Augus t, Pal Try, Jere Kalliokoski, Sebastian Erkisson and Kevin Erkisson (y'know, actual drivers) are not used

Why must it be this way? Why can't we have nice things?

Is it that hard having real drivers with liveries instead of these 4? I hope something can be done with that. 

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On 10/23/2020 at 6:11 AM, FlatOverCrest said:

Center pivot based car rotation is an actual physics implementation used in several racing games, including rally games (i.e. previous Colin McRae Rally games and possibly even recent GT games) not just an idea derived from people using chase cam. I think Dirt Rally 2.0 does use some modified, complex form of a center pivot based car physics model. They may adjust where the center pivot point is in each car and have multiple variables like tires/surface interaction/mass play a role in the yaw rate but I still think it's there. I think using chase cam just makes the usage of a center pivot more obvious. It seems more noticeable with the shorter wheelbase cars and while using chase cam. Several people credit some of the strange asphalt handling symptoms in this game to the usage of a center pivot car rotation model. I always play with cockpit cam in Dirt Rally 2.0 but I still notice it and wish the physics model was changed to something more modern and realistic. Cars sometimes rotate and push sideways in a strange manner that seems unrealistic and unnatural. I'm not asking for change, just for change's sake. If it's not going to be an improvement over DR 2.0 and more realistic then please leave it the way it is (minus asphalt handling, asphalt handling absolutely needs to change). I definitely don't want it to be worse. I could also be wrong about all of this but I am speaking up because I think it can be improved. Like many others, I just want future Codemasters' sim titles (DR 3.0, WRC, etc.) to be even better. Saying all that, it's still my favorite rally game with some of the best controller handling I have ever experienced on any racing game to date.

Yep, when you have high grip surfaces like asphalt the physics model becomes a problem. On loose surfaces it's much less noticeable as the cars usually moves around much more but it can still be felt.

IMO this is indeed what destroys the tarmac experience. You have a rear that rarely stays in a straight line when it should. Gives you the feeling of steering with the rear wheels instead of the front. When you exit a right hand corner and the car straightens out, the rear glides out to the left without losing actual traction. This also translates to the FFB of your wheel which want to counter that little move that shouldnt be there in the first place. All this sums up to the cars feeling disconnected from the road and lazy to drive.

It becomes extremely obvious if you jump staright from DR2 to other rally titles, even something like WRC9. You instantly feel that the car have the correct pivot point and stays straight when it should. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 12:06 PM, bogani said:

Yep, when you have high grip surfaces like asphalt the physics model becomes a problem. On loose surfaces it's much less noticeable as the cars usually moves around much more but it can still be felt.

IMO this is indeed what destroys the tarmac experience. You have a rear that rarely stays in a straight line when it should. Gives you the feeling of steering with the rear wheels instead of the front. When you exit a right hand corner and the car straightens out, the rear glides out to the left without losing actual traction. This also translates to the FFB of your wheel which want to counter that little move that shouldnt be there in the first place. All this sums up to the cars feeling disconnected from the road and lazy to drive.

It becomes extremely obvious if you jump staright from DR2 to other rally titles, even something like WRC9. You instantly feel that the car have the correct pivot point and stays straight when it should. 

this makes me chuckle thinking back to testing and our debates 😁 center pivot been in cody games from as far back as i can think. it would be nice to take a whole new fresh approach but i dont see it happening as it often takes years and titles have to come out yearly now. also many people wont even notice certain flaws in physics as they just simply wont push that hard to notice on the edges. so for avg joe its more than good enough. this was apparent in testing for eg i was testing a ford and i could feel the back end was totally wrong could feel pendulmn yet some where saying it wasnt really a issue or couldnt feel it.

at the end of the day who do you cater for ? niche small numbers or mass avg joe ? why spend 3 years on handling to make it amazing when one year for a whole new game suits majority of the fan base or good enough so they like it.

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3 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

this makes me chuckle thinking back to testing and our debates 😁 center pivot been in cody games from as far back as i can think. it would be nice to take a whole new fresh approach but i dont see it happening as it often takes years and titles have to come out yearly now. also many people wont even notice certain flaws in physics as they just simply wont push that hard to notice on the edges. so for avg joe its more than good enough. this was apparent in testing for eg i was testing a ford and i could feel the back end was totally wrong could feel pendulmn yet some where saying it wasnt really a issue or couldnt feel it.

at the end of the day who do you cater for ? niche small numbers or mass avg joe ? why spend 3 years on handling to make it amazing when one year for a whole new game suits majority of the fan base or good enough so they like it.

DR isn't a yearly title though. It's bi-annual. If you don't ever change or update anything then people lose interest.

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This centre pivot debate could be put to rest if Codies staff still posted on these forums...

I personally believe it is improbable that centre of mass isn't adjusted forwards or backwards depending on the engine layout and weight specs of each car. As that is presumably what the 'center pivot' argument is? That the centre of mass (which every solid object has) is always in the actual central axis of the physical car boundary, and not forward or back depending on weight distribution?

I would believe they are a bit more sophisticated at Codies than that by now, but guess we won't know unless someone with actual knowledge from within comes along...

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We're not saying the physics aren't working right, we're saying the steering effect of the car model is on a center pivot - it helps with the feeling of being able to "rotate" the car on slippery surfaces, it's one of the reasons why gravel feels so good, but on tarmac, not so much as the rear shouldn't move as early as it does when it's pivoting on the center point.

 

It's not being done incorrectly, ie. it's not physics set for a non center pivot model, and then them having a center pivot model act upon that.  It's a center pivot model with the physics set to correctly act upon *that* - with it's obvious draw backs re the tarmac.

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This is also the reason your car is so prone to catch the death banks on the side of the road in NZ. If you're on a straight and close to the bank you naturally steer towards the middle of the road to avoid it, but you will end up catching the bank with your rear. As soon as you steer away from it the rear will actually move towards it.

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10 hours ago, JZStudios said:

DR isn't a yearly title though. It's bi-annual. If you don't ever change or update anything then people lose interest.

well they dirt games are arent they. regardless if its dirt or dirt rally they just alternate. something has got to be put out and they arent going to start from scratch to make a whole new physics engine. it will be things tweaked but still have the same sort of flaws underneath.

not really true about you have to update things. if its right in the first place its right ! what you just said is actually the worst thing in gaming ! it ruins some of the best games ever made.

you dont paint the mona lisa for eg. then 5 years later oh...lets just add a hat. :classic_biggrin:

this happens in so many games. h1z1 for eg was the bees knees one big update everyone stopped playing it over night. people are working being paid what you done this week or month oh i made this right lets add that . regardless of whether it actually makes the game better but someones been working paid so it goes in. ends up making the game worse than it was.

so when a games great dont ! update it. or at least ask yourself does it really make the game better ?

Dirt rally for eg and the tarmac. early on.

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IF memory serves me right, the Solbergs commented on this, this is why they were not playing in 1st person view.  They had no feeling of the rear end position of the car.  Something like that..  This year has been a big blur to me 

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This pivot based steering may also add to how i cannot feel a "push" of understeer as the car just turns in instantly............................also can be felt when rear "hangs out" under oversteer, and no lateral movement felt through force feedback from front tires in a slide 

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@PJTierney Any chance of word from inside on this?

If the handling is based on an imaginary single wheel or 'ball' in the centre of the car, then the grip conditions on individual wheels when one or more differs from the others, ought to have no effect on the physics or steering of the car... I'm not sure I believe this is the case.

Or is that an incorrect reading of what you guys are surmising here?

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