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PJTierney

 

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VW gone but Toyota Yaris is a monster......oh wait...:classic_biggrin:

this just got really interesting now. no VW which is the poster on Dirt rally so what next ? Toyota Yaris on the front ? only thing i can think of if...dirt cant do that deal is get Hyundai.

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2 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

Nope, these games also leave game pass.
Licenses expire for the cars, so they can't sell them in any way.
They could make longer agreements, but that cost more I think.

Forza games expire always after 4 years.
Next year end of september FM7, another year same time FH4.

Oh, so pirating it is.

 

1 hour ago, Orangetuner said:

Are you sure? I know it uses the same madness engine but Its nothing like PC2 physics. You could at least check it out just for the physics aspect. Even if a lot of cars are similar to PC2 the physics alone is completely different, dude. It's worth giving it a look. Its definitely not a PC2 clone either with the same tracks if that's what you're worried about. 80% are from the Brazilian racing league. Which are all probably in AMS1. If you played that to the moon and back then I'd understand but if you haven't then I think you might be judging it too quickly lol. 

I very much highly doubt that. I'm willing to bet it's using the same physics core, and it makes no sense for the physics to be completely different. All these games aim to be simulators, so they're all pretty close comparatively. PC2 physics aren't that bad.

To be fair, no I haven't looked into it, but isn't it primarily like GT3/V8 supercars? I like road cars, another reason to be disinterested in most of the sims. I think that's what draws me to Forza, being able to really drive and mod and push cars that aren't meant for it. GT cars are kind of boring because they're really easy to drive.

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35 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

I very much highly doubt that. I'm willing to bet it's using the same physics core, and it makes no sense for the physics to be completely different. All these games aim to be simulators, so they're all pretty close comparatively. PC2 physics aren't that bad.

To be fair, no I haven't looked into it, but isn't it primarily like GT3/V8 supercars? I like road cars, another reason to be disinterested in most of the sims. I think that's what draws me to Forza, being able to really drive and mod and push cars that aren't meant for it. GT cars are kind of boring because they're really easy to drive.

Well you might actually be surprised how different it is from PC2. Yeah I know its the same physics core, but I mean. Once you drive it you'll see It shares barley any DNA with PC2. Once you put your foot down on the accelerator you can strongly see how your vehicle reacts from the air cutting around your car's aero. Tires get hot and cold. The gear boxes are way more responsive. The oversteer & understeer feel much more simulated. Its satisfying to drive man. Its like drinking fresh clean mineral water over tap it just feels nicer. 

As far as what cars are primarily in the game, AMS2 uniqueness comes from having retro open wheel cars and tracks that aren't really present in other sims. But yeah it has some gt5-1 cars and some v8s. Definitely not the majority. Its got only 2-3 road cars though. One of them is a Chevy Camaro and... Yeah its actually represented as an insane RWD car to drive. Nothing like the one in PC2

Edited by Orangetuner

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I sorta doubt that VW would block the inclusion of its older vehicles just because they've switched to electric. It'd be an act of pure wokiness, and motorsport games are not renowned for the wokeness of their audiences...

But nothing would surprise me in this ridiculous world of woke middle class law graduate brat overlords

It would suck major if one couldn't drive the old Golf around new photoreal stages. That car is the perfect way to ease back into rallying.

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With regards to stages, I’d love to see some longer stages, more varied locations and better tarmac design and feel.

I’ve definitely mentioned this before, but I would love to see open areas similar to DirtFish, the practice area in WRC or rallycross circuits used to make events of shorter, technical stages using cones and hay bales etc. Even better would be the ability to create your own stages and events in these open areas. 
 

I still think an open world rally game would be the perfect evolution, especially for a game-as-service kinda thing. Different surfaces, different weather seasons, tactical road sections between stages, and endless possibilities for stage variations that could come out periodically. 

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19 hours ago, FlatOverCrest said:

Thanks PJ for taking to time to respond to all of my questions and comments. We are lucky to have such a great Dirt Rally community manager. Will you also be the community manager for the eventual Codemasters WRC games? I really hope so.

:classic_happy:

I'm the Rally guy, but WRC is a long ways away yet so let's see what happens.

 

18 hours ago, FlatOverCrest said:

With Volkswagen pulling out of motorsports, does that mean that they will no longer be featured in future Dirt Rally games? That would be very disappointing to not have VW vehicles from Dirt Rally 2.0 in the the next game. Since they are trying to go all electric, they may not want engine based vehicles representing them in future titles. When you think about all of the brands that Volkswagen AG/Volkswagen Group owns, we might not have VW, Porsche, Audi, Seat, and Skoda vehicles featured in future Codemasters titles. Hopefully they will still allow past models to be licensed or that would be terrible.

Yesterday's news was about VW only, not the entire VW group.

Again, too early to tell what happens with future games. I also don't know if our licensing agreements were with Volkswagen or Volkswagen Motorsport. Either way, just enjoy the Volkswagen Polo GTI R5 in DiRT Rally 2.0 for now 🙂 

 

18 hours ago, Rogerbee said:

Things move too fast these days, I only bought my RTX 2060 in March and it's already starting to seem like it's obsolete. That is one upside for consoles I suppose, the basic specs stay the same for several years. I'll see what comes out next year and if I start to feel like I just can't run anything then I may upgrade. However, you then have to choose carefully to guarantee a little more longevity........

I play on Xbox (One X until I get a Series X) but I do have a 1080ti, which based on those benchmarks still holds up.

 

15 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Fujimi Kaido yo. Forza actually had a lot of really good original tracks they just haven't had this entire generation. Original tracks are more fun, they're not the same locations in exactly every game ever made you've lapped thousands of times.

Fujimi Kaido was good but Camino Viejo is where it's at.

 

19 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

 

They allowed to leave? 

Today's my day off, but I'm here talking to you lot :classic_rolleyes:

(I'm also off for most of December starting end of next week, so don't expect to see me around much until January)

 

14 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

Licenses expire for the cars, so they can't sell them in any way.
They could make longer agreements, but that cost more I think.

Forza games expire always after 4 years.

Yup, Microsoft licenses all its content for 4 years for each title, which is why the games get delisted after that. I imagine when you have a game with hundreds of cars the renewal fees are too great, plus it's better to transition people to new games anyways.

Funnily enough, DiRT Rally's had its renewed at least once I believe; that's why it's still on sale.

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Some time ago there have been talks about,what i have thought, computer generated stages in high quality.Are we still relying on designers with 1000s of hours of labor put into a 10 mile stage? Where does new computing tech come into play to design these games ? Im just wandering when are we going to be able to mirror a game in 2021 quality, like for example the british  Rally Championship game was back in the day with super long stages ? 

Maybe an evolved stage generator with a lot more variables is the way to go , i dont know.It just seems its 2021 almost, and we are talking all these limitations still......

and one more thing : where is the SMS insipired tarmac handling being implemented in future rally titles with the collaboration ? 

Edited by Madhun1967

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3 minutes ago, merseyxshore said:

With regards to stages, I’d love to see some longer stages, more varied locations and better tarmac design and feel.

I’ve definitely mentioned this before, but I would love to see open areas similar to DirtFish, the practice area in WRC or rallycross circuits used to make events of shorter, technical stages using cones and hay bales etc. Even better would be the ability to create your own stages and events in these open areas. 
 

I still think an open world rally game would be the perfect evolution, especially for a game-as-service kinda thing. Different surfaces, different weather seasons, tactical road sections between stages, and endless possibilities for stage variations that could come out periodically. 

I would love to see all of the trails in Dirtfish put in. Heck! throw in Team O'Neal's location too!

And do you mean an open world like in FH4? Interesting. If I were to add to that I would actually say to make that game a new IP. Im not sure what to call it.

Dude. I would play the **** out of an open world game with dirt rally physics. There is no open world game with simulation physics afaik other than a Tokyo mod in AC. Even if its a fake world with a city in the middle with towns and mountains around it. JDM cars in a Japan with stylized towns and mountain roads. Initial d successor. There would be hardcore damage like dirt rally and you could just chill or do some time attacks and point to point races. There would be teams who would be king of the mountain in their area or king of a point to point race. You could earn money and buy a car that can join the notorious Midnight Club. I would seriously kill for a hardcore open world by Codemasters though.

 

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40 minutes ago, Madhun1967 said:

Some time ago there have been talks about,what i have thought, computer generated stages in high quality.Are we still relying on designers with 1000s of hours of labor put into a 10 mile stage? Where does new computing tech come into play to design these games ? Im just wandering when are we going to be able to mirror a game in 2021 quality, like for example the british  Rally Championship game was back in the day with super long stages ? 

Maybe an evolved stage generator with a lot more variables is the way to go , i dont know.It just seems its 2021 almost, and we are talking all these limitations still......

 

You dont want procedural generated stages bro. It would never work out and its not even real which kinda defeats the purpose of it all being simulated. At least for me anyway.

 

38 minutes ago, Madhun1967 said:

and one more thing : where is the SMS insipired tarmac handling being implemented in future rally titles with the collaboration ? 

Im not sure if its that black and white. Maybe it is though. I dont really know anything about how gaming studios collaborate but im assuming Codemasters would have to come to a decision of weather they want the next dirt rally game to be on the ego engine or madness engine because that's what they did with Dirt 5. They had the Driveclub/Motorstorm team make it but that team is only familiar with the engine they've been working on for a decade or what ever.  And they'll make SMS work with the Madness Engine which is.......holy ****

...... I just realized something....

I predict Codemasters is going to make SMS team make the WRC games while the main studio does Dirt Rally! Im calling it now! Since the main Codemasters studio is now as now as one and are experts with the ego engine already and didnt force the Motorstorm team to adapt the ego engine either because that would be a lot of unnecessary work when the motorstorm team can just use the engine they're already familiar with.

Each Studio isnt over lapping their  teams because of the engines. They are assigning each studio a project where they get to use the engine they're already familiar with.

this has to be the case!

Anyone else predict this?

Edited by Orangetuner

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17 minutes ago, Madhun1967 said:

where is the SMS insipired tarmac handling being implemented in future rally titles with the collaboration ?

I for one do not want to see a PC3 handling model implemented in rally games. I own and have played PC3 but I want that handling to stay far away from any Codemasters' rally games. The Dirt Rally team just needs to figure out asphalt/tarmac and revamp the physics themselves in my opinion.

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Just now, FlatOverCrest said:

I for one do not want to see a PC3 handling model implemented in rally games. I own and have played PC3 but I want that handling to stay far away from any Codemasters' rally games. The Dirt Rally team just needs to figure out asphalt/tarmac and revamp the physics themselves in my opinion.

you ever play PC2 rally x ? That was great i thought ...................

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9 minutes ago, Madhun1967 said:

you ever play PC2 rally x ? That was great i thought ...................

I liked it too. It was surprisingly complex.

It could totally work for rally game as long as its on par or better than the Rally x physics from PC2. Brilliant. I personally think Codemasters is gona use it for future WRC games.

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20 minutes ago, Madhun1967 said:

you ever play PC2 rally x ? That was great i thought ...................

I own PC2 on Xbox and I could never get a controller setup that was any fun to play on. I couldn't enjoy that game with a controller to the point that I uninstalled it. I think I would need a wheel to enjoy PC2. Dirt Rally 2.0 is amazing on controller. Also, assuming that they would go the PC2 route when they clearly went a different direction with PC3 might not pan out. Other studios do asphalt physics better than Project Cars in my opinion. PC3 handles better on a controller but that franchise has an identity crises and never lived up to the hype. I don't want Project Cars injected into Codemasters' rally games. I don't think PC3 handles well on a wheel from watching people's feedback. PC3 is still a fun game despite being a departure from previous titles but it just doesn't seem like a good segway into a rally game to me.

 

Edited by FlatOverCrest
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Their games have more crossover with GRID than anything else really, when you think about it.

 

1 minute ago, FlatOverCrest said:

I don't think PC3 handles well on a wheel from watching people's feedback. 

I like it on a wheel (I run a club that races every Monday), can really feel the weight transfer. Still prefer DiRT Rally 2.0 overall but it's not bad.

Also, apparently yesterday's update made the pad handling even better.

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yeah i guess well see, but i for one think that SMS physics would be a quick fix for tarmac handling in D3 as a stop gap , until WRC title comes out with possibly new physics 

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I'm not looking for a quick fix for a title that should have plenty of development time. If they were going to do a quick fix, it should have been done for Dirt Rally 2.0 but that ship has sailed. I hope they take their time and do a great job on the asphalt handling and work on improving the physics overall for the next Dirt Rally and future CM WRC games. I hope team leads from the Rally team head up the WRC games and not SMS folks. I don't want Project Cars:Rally personally. I don't have anything against SMS, just think the Project Cars franchise at this point tries to tackle too many things and ends up being a master of none. I definitely think they are a better fit for the Grid franchise and could see them being successful at that. To me PC3 has worse visuals, worse sounds and worse performance on consoles than PC2 but 1000X better controller playability.

Edited by FlatOverCrest
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Yeah, i guess as we have no clue yet whats in store, but if tarmac isnt "fixed" for WRC title, then id rather they kept it all gravel sim............

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1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

I play on Xbox (One X until I get a Series X) but I do have a 1080ti, which based on those benchmarks still holds up.

 

 

Where driving games stand, yes, it probably would hold up for a while, but, I also play FPS and RPG's and they are getting ever more sophisticated. When Cyberpunk 2077 was announced, I figured I'd be fine with the RTX I have, but, then they introduced more and more when it became clear to them that they'd have to put it out for newer consoles, and now, a week from release, I just about meet minimum specs as they're angling for the RTX 30 series buyers already.

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6 minutes ago, Madhun1967 said:

Yeah, i guess as we have no clue yet whats in store, but if tarmac isnt "fixed" for WRC title, then id rather they kept it all gravel sim............

I fully agree that something needs to be done with the asphalt/tarmac handling and I am pretty certain they are aware of it's shortcomings in the Dirt Rally 2.0 game. Here's to hoping we get great asphalt/tarmac physics in future rally titles and maybe some improvements in gravel physics as well. The gravel handling in Dirt Rally 2.0 is really good but I would love to see them ditch the center pivot model and have the vehicles following the front wheels in a more realistic manner for car rotation.

Edited by FlatOverCrest

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6 minutes ago, FlatOverCrest said:

I'm not looking for a quick fix for a title that should have plenty of development time. If they were going to do a quick fix, it should have been done for Dirt Rally 2.0 but that ship has sailed. I hope they take their time and do a great job on the asphalt handling and work on improving the physics overall for the next Dirt Rally and future CM WRC games. I hope team leads from the Rally team head up the WRC games and not SMS folks. I don't want Project Cars:Rally personally.

Did you try Rally x in PC2? It was pretty satisfying on gamepad. If SMS improved upon the Rally x dirt physics from PC2 and focuses entirely on WRC I wouldn't be surprised if a WRC game by SMS is actually really decent. I remember one of the things people pointed out against in PC2 was that SMS stretched themselves too thin with all disciplines with their limited team. If they are assigned one discipline we could actually see them shine. 

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36 minutes ago, Orangetuner said:

Did you try Rally x in PC2? It was pretty satisfying on gamepad. If SMS improved upon the Rally x dirt physics from PC2 and focuses entirely on WRC I wouldn't be surprised if a WRC game by SMS is actually really decent. I remember one of the things people pointed out against in PC2 was that SMS stretched themselves too thin with all disciplines with their limited team. If they are assigned one discipline we could actually see them shine. 

I'll re-install it and give it a try. I do remember doing some snow/ice races and they were unplayable on controller for me. I think I drove the Audi EKS RX car though on one of the RX tracks and that was decent. The problem for me is that the handling was all over the place in that game. I didn't like vehicle handling for asphalt or snow on controller at all. It was insanely twitchy or numb. I could never find a happy medium regardless of the controller settings I used. I even looked up settings guides for the game and still wasn't satisfied. PC2 and WRC 8 are two games that just aren't the best on controller for me. WRC 9 is an improvement but still wouldn't qualify for what I would consider great controller handling.

If anyone has good PC2 controller settings that work for you, please PM me with them because I really want to like the game. I play on Xbox.

Edited by FlatOverCrest

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1 hour ago, Orangetuner said:

They had the Driveclub/Motorstorm team make it but that team is only familiar with the engine they've been working on for a decade or what ever.  And they'll make SMS work with the Madness Engine which is.......holy ****

I'd just like to chip in here, the Cheshire studio wrote the engine for Onrush from scratch, it was not an existing engine.  They have since then modified it a fair bit for DIRT 5.

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Regarding VW, it's VW Motorsport that's effectively been dissolved (well, integrated within the production vehicle unit), the wider group has no immediate implications from that - it basically means they stop selling customer TCR and R5 cars.

Audi announced the end of their Formula E programme, but that's always felt like a ginormous waste of money to me - apparently they're planning for a return to Le Mans, now that has a global set of regs again, and it wouldn't surprise me if Audi, Porsche and maybe Bentley keep customer GT programmes going for the short-term (especially if GT3 and GTE rules converge).

In rallying no sign of Skoda leaving and Seat/Cupra brand in TCR seems to be strong still.

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3 hours ago, Orangetuner said:

I would love to see all of the trails in Dirtfish put in. Heck! throw in Team O'Neal's location too!

And do you mean an open world like in FH4? Interesting. If I were to add to that I would actually say to make that game a new IP. Im not sure what to call it.

Dude. I would play the **** out of an open world game with dirt rally physics. There is no open world game with simulation physics afaik other than a Tokyo mod in AC. Even if its a fake world with a city in the middle with towns and mountains around it. JDM cars in a Japan with stylized towns and mountain roads. Initial d successor. There would be hardcore damage like dirt rally and you could just chill or do some time attacks and point to point races. There would be teams who would be king of the mountain in their area or king of a point to point race. You could earn money and buy a car that can join the notorious Midnight Club. I would seriously kill for a hardcore open world by Codemasters though.

 

Yeah definitely, I mean, take the semi-fictional version of the UK in FH4 as an example, there's so much potential. The map is 52 square miles, with smooth tarmac, rough concrete, gravel, mud, grass, elevation changes, varying weather etc. Imagine that, with Dirt Rally physics and constantly changing stages. I reckon that this is the answer to the procedurally generated stage problem. With a 50+ square mile area to play with, Codies could release new routes and stages periodically. You could have endurance events of 25 mile stages, or host a whole event of 2min stages just on the airfield. I'd love to see tactical elements like managing your damage on the road section drives between stages. I know that the Forza games have the full Microsoft might behind them for the likes of the Horizon games and almost certainly have more allocated funds than Dirt Rally titles, but something like this should be possible on current PCs/Series X/PS5 surely? 

I made a joke somewhere, maybe on a different forum, that the new Dirt Rally should be the above idea but the location should be Los Santos cause Take 2 own Rockstar haha. The Rally Of Meth Valley!

@PJTierney pass this on to the Dirt powers that be plz haha

Edited by merseyxshore

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14 hours ago, Orangetuner said:

Well you might actually be surprised how different it is from PC2. Yeah I know its the same physics core, but I mean. Once you drive it you'll see It shares barley any DNA with PC2. Once you put your foot down on the accelerator you can strongly see how your vehicle reacts from the air cutting around your car's aero. Tires get hot and cold.

PC2 has aero, unless you mean slipstream, which I'm not sure about. Also has tire temps. Hell, the GT cars have brake ducts you can open or close to cool off brakes or have better aero. I think the biggest problem with PC2 is the FFB, but there's a custom file you can get that apparently utilizes all the tire forces that make it feel WAY better. How is the gearbox more responsive?

I also appreciate that PC2 has full vehicle tuning and OEM tuning setups. For example, the Scioyobaru FR86 is basically complete garbage in AC and doesn't drift at all, yet it behaves much more realistically and skids very well in PC2 under OEM setup+tires. A bunch of other games don't seem to have OEM setups and just have the values randomly assigned to common values or something in the middle. Once I got the custom FFB file for PC2 I had more fun than I've ever had with a PC sim, almost as much as I have with Forza.

4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Fujimi Kaido was good but Camino Viejo is where it's at.

If you like race tracks. Actually never liked that one much. More Maple Valley. I like more windy road tracks. Also why I like Horizon 1 way more than any of the sequels. Way better driving roads that are fun fast or slow. Now they're all super wide, straight, and mostly flat.

 

3 hours ago, Orangetuner said:

I predict Codemasters is going to make SMS team make the WRC games while the main studio does Dirt Rally! Im calling it now!

Doesn't make sense. Doing WRC and DR at the same time would be competing with themselves when they could just join forces. D5 and DR are different enough to keep both going. SMS is either going to continue with PC, a new IP (Don't know what it would be) or become a support group/absorbed into the other studios. It could maybe be the DR to Grid, where Grid is more arcade and whatever they do is more sim.

At this point CM has DiRT for off road arcade racing, DiRT Rally for off road "sim" racing, F1 for... F1, Grid for semi arcade street/track racing, and PC. The best logical place for it to fit without removing something is to continue with something similar to PC or overtake GRID.

 

1 hour ago, CMMcBabe said:

I'd just like to chip in here, the Cheshire studio wrote the engine for Onrush from scratch, it was not an existing engine.  They have since then modified it a fair bit for DIRT 5.

I've been curious about this, does Sony own the old engine or something? Or did they just want to make a new engine?

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