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PJTierney

 

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KevM said:
@thecraicbear does do an awesome consommé
It's particularly favorable and flavorful. Not too thick, and not too thin. In fact, it's a perfect soup to flask-up and take with you for a cold day in the Welsh forests watching the rally this weekend. 

Forget your waterproof overalls, and your wellington boots; you'll feel like you're wearing the most ostentatious dressing gown made from the finest materials, matched with some tremendous cushion-like slippers, in the obvious shape of bear paws. 

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Hang on a second, are we seriously talking about making the tyres tougher everywhere just for the sake of Finland?
Why compromise the other 5 locations when all you have to do in Finland is apply a tiny bit of brake before a jump and try to land cleanly?
I haven't punctured a tyre purely from cleanly going over a jump in Finland since the 3rd day of the community test before it even went public!

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@jennyannem   Hello!

As others have said, this thread is an institution for DiRT Rally Gossip, past present and hopefully for the future.  

The only arguments you will see here are over spoilers and grills.  Maybe we get a little whiny about sound and handling, but never trashing you guys for not delivering something.

Oh yeah, I whine about no American rally events in DiRT Rally, but I am getting therapy for that.

All we will ever ask of you is for some gossip to well.. gossip about.

But you know about this already.   

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Agreewith @BrySkye , I've never had punctures in Finland so far and I'm not that careful at all going over jumps

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BrySkye said:
I haven't punctured a tyre purely from cleanly going over a jump in Finland since the 3rd day of the community test before it even went public!
I have....

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Am I the only one who's perfectly happy with the punctures if you overdo a jump? If it is reduced, I hope suspension damage is upped as a trade-off.
Generally speaking, a tire should never get a puncture from just landing as the suspension takes most of the impact on itself. In other words, sooner the suspension would collapse from a too long jump than a tire, which is the most robust piece in a car next to the anti-roll bars. I mean come on chaps, we see F1 cars with the slicks crash at nearly 300km/h and the only thing that isn't "damaged" is the tire (unless it obviously hit something that could easily pierce or deeply cut through the tire, which is the only way to damage a rubber).

Then again, the model system is generally speaking wonky as hell. I hit with the front, rear lights go out. I hit the bumper from the right side, it starts falling out from the left side. I scratch the wall/tree on the right side, I get a puncture on the left side. And so on and so forth. Heck, I once fixed all my broken headlights by landing too hard...
My foreign language comprehension is at minimum levels... 

I broke all car lights, front and rear ones, after a landing too. Ok, when I was on air I saw even the sea and it was a very though landing with a couple of flat wheels included.

But other times, the landing was perfect on the 4 wheels (remained intact) and all headlights died.

I noticed too the "side changed" damage, quite curious

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Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  

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gfRally said:
Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
Our car, along with my back, would be ****ed if we took one of those jumps flat out!

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Chillout with a bit of snow. That i20 and Polo will be awsome. Watching the video I want so bad to get the new update!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNB3DbKyRO4

Notice how drivers can touch the snow piles without any problem. Some snow splash , thats all.
I really hope the new technology for snow mounds will work something like that.

And there are some pretty fast sections.. wowowowow... with those narrow tyres!

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gfRally said:
Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
in interviews of rally finlanf drivers often say they go flatout.  there is no reason to getting a puncture just by jumping......

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teknoid85 said:
gfRally said:
Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
in interviews of rally finlanf drivers often say they go flatout.  there is no reason to getting a puncture just by jumping......
Note how he said non-WRC car.

This is a kind of flawed argument right off the bat though.
As we clearly know, the cars in the game are flying further and higher than real ones.
You especially know this since almost every post you made was that very subject.  :p

So we're going to have to treat these jumps a little bit differently than we do in real life.
Same as we do for quite a lot of this game, or any game, because they aren't perfect.
Hit those jumps a little slower and more carefully, you'll jump in a way that is closer to real life and the tyres are very unlikely to puncture.
Hit them flat out and you will jump in a way different from real life, a more severe way, so it's not unreasonable that the consequences are also different and more severe.
Cause and effect.

I almost wonder how many people who say they want a hardcore damage mode would actually use it if we're complaining about punctures from the altitudes and impact force of these jumps. Given how the cars are flying, flat out DiRT Rally style jumps will just destroy the suspension and the  wheels themselves would just burst up through the bodywork.

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BrySkye said:
teknoid85 said:
gfRally said:
Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
in interviews of rally finlanf drivers often say they go flatout.  there is no reason to getting a puncture just by jumping......
Note how he said non-WRC car.

This is a kind of flawed argument right off the bat though.
As we clearly know, the cars in the game are flying further and higher than real ones.
You especially know this since almost every post you made was that very subject.  :p

So we're going to have to treat these jumps a little bit differently than we do in real life.
Same as we do for quite a lot of this game, or any game, because they aren't perfect.
Hit those jumps a little slower and more carefully, you'll jump in a way that is closer to real life and the tyres are very unlikely to puncture.
Hit them flat out and you will jump in a way different from real life, a more severe way, so it's not unreasonable that the consequences are also different and more severe.

I almost wonder how many people who say they want a hardcore damage mode would actually use it if we're complaining about punctures from the altitudes and impact force of these jumps. Given how the cars are flying, flat out DiRT Rally style jumps will just destroy the suspension and the  wheels themselves would just burst up through the bodywork.
i agree that a non wrc car will wreck if  jump is too big,  but the tyres ....if they are new................. hmmmmm i don't know......

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I have seen struts going through bonnets & competitors retiring from events with a busted back following a heavy landing, but that's normally been a crest on tarmac with a full semi-solid tarmac suspension.  
Finding a nice forestry suspension setup in real life or in-game, that soaks up the bumps with silky smoothness, really should reward you when you can start push, but then, POP, puncture after the first (perfect, moderate speed) landing 5 corners into Kontinjarvi...  Stage over.  

I keep saying it, the jumps were profiled to give old fat V1 cars a bit of air.  The jumps need toned down to match the downforce reduction of the V2 fliers.

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I keep saying it, the jumps were profiled to give old fat V1 cars a bit of air.  The jumps need toned down to match the downforce reduction of the V2 fliers.
I wonder if @KickUp could speak on this as well. pretty please? 

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Re-profiling the tracks would be an absolutely massive undertaking, even if it was 'just' the jumps being changed.
The geometry needs to be changed, it affects the side of the track meaning every single rock and tree needs to be adjusted, etc.
It's not going to happen any more rapidly than another new physics pass and we really don't need Paul to tell us that (though he did already basically say as much in the DiRT Show anyway. They have their hands full just considering updating Monte with the soft snow tech).

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I have no doubt it would be massive, but I genuinely don't think they can solve airtime with altering the physics.  Making the cars feel heavier (forced aero) than V2 would likely be seen as a step backwards, unless original downforce is restored but power is greatly increased and grip reduced to suit!?

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It depends what the actual problems are. We're assuming it's the track, but then again that's something they've made based on their measurements from actually going there with spirit levels, etc.
Did they tweak them to fly better? Maybe. Then again, work on v2 began back in May so they would have had a long time to know if Finland was going to 'fly' as it were)
The physics is a lot of factors. Generally, Paul is saying its how the cars behave on an aerodynamic level, which doesn't strictly have anything to do with mass anyway, so making the cars 'heavier' wouldn't need to be done.
For example, if the cars are generating too much lift while flying. Then you would change that without touching the mass or downforce and the car won't fly so far. He's already said the cars mass (kudos to you @KickUp for knowing that if we're throwing around KG, it's mass not weight!) is the same between v1 and 2.

So we don't know the tracks are the problem. Paul doesn't seem to think they are the main issue.

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Oh they get lift alright, I had the Quattro literally landing on its tail-lights in Finland, it got that much nose-lift on wee jumps.

I don't think the stages are replicated to that extent, that the jumps are angled the same as the road they are based on.  We'll see when Sweden comes.  If we get Colin's Crest (speculation) & jump distances in a 2010 car feel similar to what the real jump distances are known to be, then it would indicate that course design is very much to suit current car physics & that original stages are 'V1 friendly'.

& just on a slightly different possible issue of physics, does anyone know how to install a RallyX car on the stages?  They 'seem' to be capable of holding slip angle more than a rally car, like they are on a slightly different setup to V2 & I'd love to try a quick experiment !!

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In gossip news, the F1 games have a permanent community manager now. Hopefully we will also see some more community stuff
*waves* Hoping to not be a stranger to you guys too!
Welcome to the funhouse @jennyannem !

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BrySkye said:
Note how he said non-WRC car.

This is a kind of flawed argument right off the bat though.
As we clearly know, the cars in the game are flying further and higher than real ones.
You especially know this since almost every post you made was that very subject.  :p

So we're going to have to treat these jumps a little bit differently than we do in real life.
Same as we do for quite a lot of this game, or any game, because they aren't perfect.
Hit those jumps a little slower and more carefully, you'll jump in a way that is closer to real life and the tyres are very unlikely to puncture.
Hit them flat out and you will jump in a way different from real life, a more severe way, so it's not unreasonable that the consequences are also different and more severe.
Cause and effect.
I'm 100% unhappy about getting a puncture from something that is incapable of delivering a puncture to a rally spec tire on a rally spec car, such as landing on a surface that doesn't have sharp objects which are big enough to pierce through the tire.
I'm 100% happy about getting the suspension collapsing due to jumping too far which means I would have to take all those jumps a lot slower. Nothing wrong with it. That's why people with non-WRC cars slow down, not because of tires, but because of suspension. I remember perfectly how in one of the WRC transmissions (2005 year Finland I believe) they were explaining why going flat-out through jumps is a risky stuff for the cars suspension. Not tire.

I really don't want to be getting a puncture every single time after hitting a snow bank with a wheel while spinning out... And yes, that happened. Too many times. No one will ever convince me that a snow is capable of puncturing a tire (snow, not ice).

Tire puncturing system is just plain out wrong. Instead of finding excuses why you need to slow down on the jumps, I think it's better to acknowledge the issue, inform about it Codies and hope for a fix to it. The fear for the punctures needs to stop.

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KevM said:
I don't think the stages are replicated to that extent, that the jumps are angled the same as the road they are based on.  We'll see when Sweden comes.  If we get Colin's Crest (speculation) & jump distances in a 2010 car feel similar to what the real jump distances are known to be, then it would indicate that course design is very much to suit current car physics & that original stages are 'V1 friendly'.

& just on a slightly different possible issue of physics, does anyone know how to install a RallyX car on the stages?  They 'seem' to be capable of holding slip angle more than a rally car, like they are on a slightly different setup to V2 & I'd love to try a quick experiment !!
Given the short amount of time between Finland and Sweden, don't expect any changes to have been made just to accommodate v2 cars.
Like I said, work began on those back in May and we had 1.5 released in June. If it's down to track design, thoughts to adjust Finland would have already been flying around internally some time ago.

As for putting an RX car on a rally stage (or vice versa! but be wary doing that since Rally cars don't have AI models), you basically just have to pick a rally car to replace, back up its folder and move it to somewhere else on your HDD, copy/paste the RX car to make a duplicate and then rename every single file to be the same as the car you are replacing. 
This might look like the Subaru 555, but it's actually the Celica GT4 (though with importing a DiRT 3 car, you don't replace everything)


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Good man, & would the RX physics carry (I'm assuming it does if the AI crew come along to play lol )?  

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KevM said:
Good man, & would the RX physics carry (I'm assuming it does if the AI crew come along to play lol )?  
If you're renaming all the RX files, then yes. It's all in that folder.
I've taken the Impreza, as a Celica, up Pikes Peak with the Impreza physics. Was a joy.

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We know two things: V2 cars catch more air then they should and Finland jumps are exaggerated. It only makes sense that as a temporary solution tires are made tougher to compensate. Compare the yellow house jump in this game to real life and you'll see they take that jump flat out no problem. While if you take it fast in this game, well, you know what happens. I'm fine with having to brake for crests. Not fine with the inconsistent punctures.

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BrySkye said:
KevM said:
Good man, & would the RX physics carry (I'm assuming it does if the AI crew come along to play lol )?  
If you're renaming all the RX files, then yes. It's all in that folder.
I've taken the Impreza, as a Celica, up Pikes Peak with the Impreza physics. Was a joy.
Very nice, look's like I've just garnered a new interest in DR, But it means I'm going to have to make a lot of duplicate folders... I wonder if there's any way to get into the code files to just remove the restrictions? If only my programmer friend was interested in DR.

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