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PJTierney

 

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Yeah, terminally damaged or heavily rolled cars don't really look pretty in the game as it currently is.  It's hard to imagine the current deformation would satisfy licensing, but the modded damage wouldn't 

As mentioned above, it has been acknowledged that durability was prioritised a little too heavily in the initial damage model

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versedi said:
KevM said:
We need that as an option in the game (damage, not Grist)
If I'm not mistaken this was already mentioned...licencing.

These not smart people in high positions simply don't want their cars to be crashed. Idi....
I seriously doubt that. They've said time and again they purposefully made the damage more robust.. or less robust... whatever. Most basic licensing just says that it can't look like someone has died. Quoting Turn 10 there, and after a quick peekypoo at any of the previous Dirt, Grid, or F1 series also points to it not being a licensing issue.
I think Dirt 2 had the best visual damage. I watched crash replays all day long.

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I think that the punctures you get by hitting a wall or logs with the rear end while going sideways are really un realistic, a much more realistic way of representa that damage would be the damaged suspension arm of the mod, if you crash you dont puncture you alterate the body and its components not a tire

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I think that the punctures you get by hitting a wall or logs with the rear end while going sideways are really un realistic, a much more realistic way of representa that damage would be the damaged suspension arm of the mod, if you crash you dont puncture you alterate the body and its components not a tire
You should read some more rally reports.

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It's possible for tyres to be punctured from impacts, we've already established that with examples.
They can also happen as an indirect result from impacts because the damaged bodywork/suspension subsequently cuts into the tyre itself.

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Since they worked so hard on the physics model in DR this time, maybe DR2 will focus a little more on perfecting damage model and engine model.  I read somewhere that engine modeling has its shortcomings too.  The engine model isn't detailed enough to feed into other parts of the model (i.e. sound, damage, etc) for the extreme fidelity that that we are looking for at times.  

Remember DR has been a bit of a test bed for the future.  There are many things they need to improve and add that is on Pauls bucket list.  Now that they have proven to management that they can succeed in producing a 'simulation' type of rally game that generates a profit, the future game may get more resources (people and money) to allow for a lot of these other features.

I'm not saying DR is not done extremely well, or unpolished, per say, but a future title will be able to focus on more of these other things.

If you re watch a lot of the Live shows, and take note of Paul's replies to the questions we've asked, he has stated much of the above.  



On a side thought, It would be really cool if they could do the next game by building on the previous title.  They could take the current content, improve it/update it, and also add to it with other locations and cars.  Maybe expand Wales to other stages, but don't ax Bindo-Moorland, because its so iconic, even though we know the turns so well.  If terrain deformation would be added, a muddy day in Wales would make for a whole new challenge, even more so if you are a few cars back in the order.  

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I think that the punctures you get by hitting a wall or logs with the rear end while going sideways are really un realistic, a much more realistic way of representa that damage would be the damaged suspension arm of the mod, if you crash you dont puncture you alterate the body and its components not a tire
You should read some more rally reports.
I am sure i know a lot more than neccesary about rally, i was referring to slight touches with the rear and you get annoying punctures, watch wrc cars get more suspension damage than punctures (except bobby k and his shitty pirellis) see Evans crash at ouninpohja this year, he destroyed the suspension arm but not the tire.

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sqdstr said:
that's a very beautiful stage, imagine we could get stages like this in Dirt Rally if we could get a track editor
A track editor would be heaven. I'd recreate all Wrecked/Mashed tracks for rallycross.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDDdGjdl2tc

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gfRally said:.
 If terrain deformation would be added, a muddy day in Wales would make for a whole new challenge, even more so if you are a few cars back in the order.  
It's still pointless until we get the staggered starts with other cars on the stage at the same time back. Massive investment in tech for small gain otherwise.
I don't think that'll happen until either a completely new engine is made or the stages are made shorter, more like in DiRT 3.
And I don't think anyone really wants that.

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gfRally said:
Since they worked so hard on the physics model in DR this time, maybe DR2 will focus a little more on perfecting damage model and engine model.  I read somewhere that engine modeling has its shortcomings too.  The engine model isn't detailed enough to feed into other parts of the model (i.e. sound, damage, etc) for the extreme fidelity that that we are looking for at times.  

Remember DR has been a bit of a test bed for the future.  There are many things they need to improve and add that is on Pauls bucket list.  Now that they have proven to management that they can succeed in producing a 'simulation' type of rally game that generates a profit, the future game may get more resources (people and money) to allow for a lot of these other features.

I'm not saying DR is not done extremely well, or unpolished, per say, but a future title will be able to focus on more of these other things.

If you re watch a lot of the Live shows, and take note of Paul's replies to the questions we've asked, he has stated much of the above.  



On a side thought, It would be really cool if they could do the next game by building on the previous title.  They could take the current content, improve it/update it, and also add to it with other locations and cars.  Maybe expand Wales to other stages, but don't ax Bindo-Moorland, because its so iconic, even though we know the turns so well.  If terrain deformation would be added, a muddy day in Wales would make for a whole new challenge, even more so if you are a few cars back in the order.  
Am I the only one who think that they shouldn't go for Dirt Rally 2 in 4 or 5 years at least? I think Asseto Corsa (or other sim racing games) model with lots of patches and expansions/DLCs is the way to go. Bring the improvements to Dirt Rally and don't think in the sequel unless you have something really new and different. I know this is not Codemasters business model (formula 1) but they have surprised everyone with this amazing early access, keep in touch with the community and don't end the development now.

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Underkex said:
Am I the only one who think that they shouldn't go for Dirt Rally 2 in 4 or 5 years at least? I think Asseto Corsa (or other sim racing games) model with lots of patches and expansions/DLCs is the way to go. Bring the improvements to Dirt Rally and don't think in the sequel unless you have something really new and different. I know this is not Codemasters business model (formula 1) but they have surprised everyone with this amazing early access, keep in touch with the community and don't end the development now.
There should be a solid base underneath, before you start doing that. While DiRT Rally is a great game, the engine is limited, due to it's age. I'd rather, they made a DiRT Rally 2 with a new engine and all the physics and graphics issues sorted out for good, and only then they could make some long term DLC strategy. Just my 2 cents

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gfRally said:
Remember DR has been a bit of a test bed for the future.  There are many things they need to improve and add that is on Pauls bucket list.  Now that they have proven to management that they can succeed in producing a 'simulation' type of rally game that generates a profit, the future game may get more resources (people and money) to allow for a lot of these other features.
I'm just wondering exactly how well it did. I don't think that we got a game budget number, much less where it stands compared to sales.
Underkex said:
Am I the only one who think that they shouldn't go for Dirt Rally 2 in 4 or 5 years at least? I think Asseto Corsa (or other sim racing games) model with lots of patches and expansions/DLCs is the way to go. Bring the improvements to Dirt Rally and don't think in the sequel unless you have something really new and different. I know this is not Codemasters business model (formula 1) but they have surprised everyone with this amazing early access, keep in touch with the community and don't end the development now.
Well, as much as everyone hates the idea of crowdfunding PCars 2, that's about how it works most of the time. So I'd say if they are doing a DR2, they're probably already working on ideas, and probably go into more development after the console final release. They could still add lots of patches and DLC in the meantime, if that's something they're willing to do. Dice started to do an amazing job with BF4, and they still release patches and even some free maps and weapons.

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Underkex said:
Am I the only one who think that they shouldn't go for Dirt Rally 2 in 4 or 5 years at least? I think Asseto Corsa (or other sim racing games) model with lots of patches and expansions/DLCs is the way to go. Bring the improvements to Dirt Rally and don't think in the sequel unless you have something really new and different. I know this is not Codemasters business model (formula 1) but they have surprised everyone with this amazing early access, keep in touch with the community and don't end the development now.
Personally I prefer to have regular new releases rather than drip feed patches and DLCs. Start DiRT Rally 2 and open it up for early access just like this one. Probably the best managed project in the history of sim racing from my viewpoint. Otherwise the development just seems to be endless and a bit unfocused. AC was slated for release "sometime in 2012", V1 was December 2014. Nothing against AC, rFactor2 etc. but the to do list seems to grow faster than the development much of the time. I would happily purchase a new title annually with interim DLC relaeases.

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Didzis said:


There should be a solid base underneath, before you start doing that. While DiRT Rally is a great game, the engine is limited, due to it's age. I'd rather, they made a DiRT Rally 2 with a new engine and all the physics and graphics issues sorted out for good, and only then they could make some long term DLC strategy. Just my 2 cents

+1

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I remember him saying that they had reached their target prior to release even, so management has to be at least satisfied.
JZStudios said:
gfRally said:
Remember DR has been a bit of a test bed for the future.  There are many things they need to improve and add that is on Pauls bucket list.  Now that they have proven to management that they can succeed in producing a 'simulation' type of rally game that generates a profit, the future game may get more resources (people and money) to allow for a lot of these other features.
I'm just wondering exactly how well it did. I don't think that we got a game budget number, much less where it stands compared to sales.

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BrySkye said:
gfRally said:.
 If terrain deformation would be added, a muddy day in Wales would make for a whole new challenge, even more so if you are a few cars back in the order.  
It's still pointless until we get the staggered starts with other cars on the stage at the same time back. Massive investment in tech for small gain otherwise.
I don't think that'll happen until either a completely new engine is made or the stages are made shorter, more like in DiRT 3.
And I don't think anyone really wants that.

Umm l thought that was self explanatory in the post, kind of common sense if you read what I have posted many times before.  

Engine overhaul is needed for ANY forward progress there have been many features that have been ask about that Paul and Co has replied that the current engine doesn't support.

Underkex said:
gfRally said:
Since
Am I the only one who think that they shouldn't go for Dirt Rally 2 in 4 or 5 years at least? I think Asseto Corsa (or other sim racing games) model with lots of patches and expansions/DLCs is the way to go. Bring the improvements to Dirt Rally and don't think in the sequel unless you have something really new and different. I know this is not Codemasters business model (formula 1) but they have surprised everyone with this amazing early access, keep in touch with the community and don't end the development now.
I would like this model followed in the future, but as @Didzis mentioned we need a better base to grow with first.

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Didzis said:
There should be a solid base underneath, before you start doing that. While DiRT Rally is a great game, the engine is limited, due to it's age. I'd rather, they made a DiRT Rally 2 with a new engine and all the physics and graphics issues sorted out for good, and only then they could make some long term DLC strategy. Just my 2 cents
I would doubt anyone paying the wage bill would agree, you have to keep the funds coming in. What other race sim has "all the physics and graphics issues sorted out for good"? It is an evolutionary process.

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Just to point back to a few pages ago in this thread, Paul's comment about developing an all new engine:

KickUp said:
We are continuing to develop on the engine we used for PC and for all the previous games our studio has made. It's always newer than the last. The 'next' ego engine isn't really a relevant term anymore. 
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/152454/#Comment_152454



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gfRally said:
BrySkye said:
gfRally said:.
 If terrain deformation would be added, a muddy day in Wales would make for a whole new challenge, even more so if you are a few cars back in the order.  
It's still pointless until we get the staggered starts with other cars on the stage at the same time back. Massive investment in tech for small gain otherwise.
I don't think that'll happen until either a completely new engine is made or the stages are made shorter, more like in DiRT 3.
And I don't think anyone really wants that.

Umm l thought that was self explanatory in the post, kind of common sense if you read what I have posted many times before.  

Engine overhaul is needed for ANY forward progress there have been many features that have been ask about that Paul and Co has replied that the current engine doesn't support.

Which is why I emphasised that it's a very big technical investment for questionable gain. I meant terrain deformation itself, not a new engine that would enable it.

Although Sega Rally (Revo) did it very, very well over 8 years ago, terrain deformation has not become a standard feature which is very telling.

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We should be realistic. A Dirt Rally 2 game can't introduce all these things like magic. I don't know if they are going to change the engine, I doubt it, DR is the best looking Rally game ever, so far. Do you want a CMR3 /04/2005 trilogy again? I prefer expansion packs, with cars and new stages and countries. As I said, if they go for a revolution do Dirt Rally 2, for minor improvements and new cars or stages keep with Dirt Rally, refining physics and online (bigger issue right now).

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If ever DR2 would be going to release, at least it should be quite modifiable and crackable for mods. The engine itself should adopt mods of all sorts.

Honestly, what the modders have done to DR with that damage model is just incredible; that would probably open many inquiries in possibilities of importing cars to the game. 

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Darhour said:
If ever DR2 would be going to release, at least it should be quite modifiable and crackable for mods. The engine itself should adopt mods of all sorts.

Honestly, what the modders have done to DR with that damage model is just incredible; that would probably open many inquiries in possibilities of importing cars to the game. 
There isn't much of a connection. Just about every EGO game has damage mods. It's basically just XML editing.
Being able to compile 3D models into a compatible format is a very different kettle of fish. EGO's been around since 2007 and no ones managed to import new cars into it yet. Maybe DR will be the game to attract someone talented enough to really figure it out, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

There's also the fact that significant modding causes problems. If you use that damage mod, you can't even save your game, so you can't play championships, earn money, buy cars or unlock upgrades when using it.
We can't even swap car physics without causing problems.

Honestly, a sequel isn't going to be more open than DR. If anything, security will be increased yet again. It's just not a mod-friendly engine and not a particularly mod-friendly studio.

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BrySkye said:
gfRally said:.
 If terrain deformation would be added, a muddy day in Wales would make for a whole new challenge, even more so if you are a few cars back in the order.  
It's still pointless until we get the staggered starts with other cars on the stage at the same time back. Massive investment in tech for small gain otherwise.
I don't think that'll happen until either a completely new engine is made or the stages are made shorter, more like in DiRT 3.
And I don't think anyone really wants that.
I agree that it's not worth having without a road order, as such, but I don't think the actual cars need to be running in stage for this, 'just' pre-determined deformation based on where you're running would be more than good for me.

As you say, having to have the AI and other physical cars run on stage is always going to hit performance or create compromises, so I sort of hope it isn't reintroduced any time soon personally, would take so much resource (both at CM and on my CPU) that I can't see it being worth it.

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The solution is simple, Codies should just put 300 people in the team, and then work simultaneously on DLC, Dirt Rally 2 and Dirt Rally 3.
you dont just put 300 people on a project.if that was the case they wouldnt of have to struggle to get dirt rally made.

as for the graphics engine most studios just tweak their normal engine then call it 2.0/3.0 and so on. or say its basically been tweaked so much it is a new engine.

i dont mind dirt rallies graphics.i would prefer for the team to just build on what we have already not take years out for a new one and bring all the places to rally. thats 2 years probably just on the courses.

what we must remember is most studios dont want you to play a game too long as you might not buy the next.so try and put just enough in to keep you entertained for a certain amount of time.

thing is you could just put everything in a make a monster of a game and sell 5x as good as five games. legendary games do this.

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