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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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@Porkhammer I know, I've used it for yeeeeaaaars and there's only one of me :smiley:

@F2CMaDMaXX Weeeell... I would like to keep my job so can't say too much :P

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I would argue, and i'm sure some others here would too, that you're actually helping promote ;)  

OK, get @KickUp in here as he has the auth to spread that gossip :D

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This was what he told me:                                                   



Perhaps the one used for the model was Perez's, but another one was recorded for the sounds. Therefore, for the sounds to be accurate, it had to be a 6-speed in-game.
At the time of @Hatward writing that Private Message I genuinely believed it was the case but after further investigation it turns out that our audio team couldn't give me a definitive answer and I suspect that was because they didn't get the car into its top gear based on where they did the recording. So it is a distinct possibility that the Focus has the wrong number of gears. 
I don't know if we can get round to fixing it as it has the potential to break a lot of other things so I'd rather we just leave it in the pile along with the wrong bodywork on the Impreza R4 and the wrong interior in the Burns Impreza. Mistakes happen when we make games and I'm just glad that it is stuff like this that we are getting called out on rather than some of the more fundamental things our previous games have been lambasted for.
I'm not happy with it and we need to improve our research methods in the future. Our car models, handling and audio are still considerably better than anything else out there in the rally genre but that doesn't mean that we can't be better than we are.  

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urgaffel said:
Flow is volumetric so it doesn' use sprites no. But at the moment, true volumetric rendering is too slow for games, especially if you're targeting 60fps. You can fake volumetric but you're still usnig a sprite.
Yeah, way too expensive on resources for the games, but just wanted to make sure. Still, in 4-5 years, that should be a viable option for games, just like VXGI.

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urgaffel said:

JZStudios said:
urgaffel said:
gfRally said:
@urgaffel 

Don't know if you can elaborate, but is this "smoke and dust" a particle system or sprites?  It my limited knowledge, maybe these are one in the same?
They are the same, sort of. Particle systems use sprites :)
Are you going to make it so when the cars driving away you don't get that weird ability to see the back of the car and the new dust being kicked up?
Yes/no/maybe ;)
Boy, only classy answers from you CM lot. Don't really feel like that would necessarily be a world shattering thing, but alright.

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KickUp said:
This was what he told me:                                                   



Perhaps the one used for the model was Perez's, but another one was recorded for the sounds. Therefore, for the sounds to be accurate, it had to be a 6-speed in-game.
At the time of @Hatward writing that Private Message I genuinely believed it was the case but after further investigation it turns out that our audio team couldn't give me a definitive answer and I suspect that was because they didn't get the car into its top gear based on where they did the recording. So it is a distinct possibility that the Focus has the wrong number of gears. 
I don't know if we can get round to fixing it as it has the potential to break a lot of other things so I'd rather we just leave it in the pile along with the wrong bodywork on the Impreza R4 and the wrong interior in the Burns Impreza. Mistakes happen when we make games and I'm just glad that it is stuff like this that we are getting called out on rather than some of the more fundamental things our previous games have been lambasted for.
I'm not happy with it and we need to improve our research methods in the future. Our car models, handling and audio are still considerably better than anything else out there in the rally genre but that doesn't mean that we can't be better than we are.  
Thanks for this, Paul, and i agree, to the point where just a few posts up, i'd much rather have what you have given, than not even close.

Also, someone can swat me down for this as i might be off-base, but, talking about rev limits, the 2001 Impreza?  I saw Colin McRae taking (i think) Penny Mallory) for a drive/spin in (i think) Saintz' Impreza, and he commented it didn't rev as high as his older version, that it makes all it's power low down (similar to the EvoX R4).

BUT, i don't know which year he was driving, and if that 'fact' changed around that time frame?

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One thing we have to remember about race cars, and more so rally cars.  There are so many changes that can be made event to event.  If parts are shy a 5 speed could be swapped for a 6 and visa versa at an event.  Same with anti-lag can be 'tuned' even in at a service area.  Just like brakes/suspension/tires.  These can all very with supplies, damaged turbos, etc.

I know for a fact, that Ken Block has his Fiesta tuned so that fuel is dumped so that backfires throw larger than usual flames, same goes with antilag.  I would thing this is part of the antilag tuning so, whatever, but I heard this straight from his mechanic at a US rally.  

So from car to car the same model can sound differently.  Even air density can change the sound and the way a car runs.

Anyhow, there are obvious cosmetic things, but engine and mechanical change all the time.

Since the subject has been brought up, @kickup is there a reason that we don't hear much transmission whine?  There has been mention that certain mechanics haven't been modeled that sound can tie into properly, is this true for the transmission?  Its no issue for me but in some cars transmission whine is pretty dominate in real life.  

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Also, someone can swat me down for this as i might be off-base, but, talking about rev limits, the 2001 Impreza?  I saw Colin McRae taking (i think) Penny Mallory) for a drive/spin in (i think) Saintz' Impreza, and he commented it didn't rev as high as his older version, that it makes all it's power low down (similar to the EvoX R4).

Sainz only drove for SWRT in 1994 and 1995, so it wouldn't have been his car if he was talking about a latter generation Impreza WRCar.

He does mention rev limits in this video with Vicki-Butler Henderson whilst driving Petter Solberg's S9 Impreza WRCar, is this the one you are thinking of?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCei-iQCVLU

(At around the 1:25 mark)

I would personally say that the latter 2.0L turbo WRC engines all share broadly similar characteristics; i.e. delivering a lot of torque very low down in the rev range.

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gfRally said:
One thing we have to remember about race cars, and more so rally cars.  There are so many changes that can be made event to event.  If parts are shy a 5 speed could be swapped for a 6 and visa versa at an event.  Same with anti-lag can be 'tuned' even in at a service area.  Just like brakes/suspension/tires.  These can all very with supplies, damaged turbos, etc.

I know for a fact, that Ken Block has his Fiesta tuned so that fuel is dumped so that backfires throw larger than usual flames, same goes with antilag.  I would thing this is part of the antilag tuning so, whatever, but I heard this straight from his mechanic at a US rally.  

So from car to car the same model can sound differently.  Even air density can change the sound and the way a car runs.

Anyhow, there are obvious cosmetic things, but engine and mechanical change all the time.

Since the subject has been brought up, @kickup is there a reason that we don't hear much transmission whine?  There has been mention that certain mechanics haven't been modeled that sound can tie into properly, is this true for the transmission?  Its no issue for me but in some cars transmission whine is pretty dominate in real life.  
I think it's to do with where the audio listeners are placed in the cockpit and the fact that straight cut gears can be pretty unpleasant to listen too. I'm sure it's there but it's not as prevelant as you might hear in some on board videos where the microphones can be basic and therefore pick up on the nearest and loudest thing with the most resonance. 

If the cockpit mix was the same as what I hear in the cockpit of the Impreza it would be a very muted experience due to the noise cancelling intercom headphones in the helmet. 

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JZStudios said:
urgaffel said:

JZStudios said:
Are you going to make it so when the cars driving away you don't get that weird ability to see the back of the car and the new dust being kicked up?
Yes/no/maybe ;)
Boy, only classy answers from you CM lot. Don't really feel like that would necessarily be a world shattering thing, but alright.
Well, I honestly can't give you a definitive answer because I don't know yet. I know it's an issue, it's been bugged up in our list of things to fix so it's just a matter of wait and see. It's definitely something that I personally would like to see fixed so I'll try and push the issue but like I said, I can't say yes or no so... Maybe?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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urgaffel said:
JZStudios said:
urgaffel said:

JZStudios said:
Are you going to make it so when the cars driving away you don't get that weird ability to see the back of the car and the new dust being kicked up?
Yes/no/maybe ;)
Boy, only classy answers from you CM lot. Don't really feel like that would necessarily be a world shattering thing, but alright.
Well, I honestly can't give you a definitive answer because I don't know yet. I know it's an issue, it's been bugged up in our list of things to fix so it's just a matter of wait and see. It's definitely something that I personally would like to see fixed so I'll try and push the issue but like I said, I can't say yes or no so... Maybe?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My intermittent shadows would be more of 'a thing'.  Without them, the car looks superimposed onto the stage during certain scenes

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Thank you @tbtstt - That's the one, and yeah, it was either Penny or VBH :)  I didn't remember that he actually called out the year as well, so 2004 and change up at 5500, maybe a simple 6k redline?   i would cluelessly say it is the same as the '01 but yeah, i have no idea :)

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urgaffel said:
JZStudios said:
urgaffel said:

JZStudios said:
Are you going to make it so when the cars driving away you don't get that weird ability to see the back of the car and the new dust being kicked up?
Yes/no/maybe ;)
Boy, only classy answers from you CM lot. Don't really feel like that would necessarily be a world shattering thing, but alright.
Well, I honestly can't give you a definitive answer because I don't know yet. I know it's an issue, it's been bugged up in our list of things to fix so it's just a matter of wait and see. It's definitely something that I personally would like to see fixed so I'll try and push the issue but like I said, I can't say yes or no so... Maybe?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah. So then your mysterious project is not that issue then.... Hmmm. Does this game have engine smoke yet? But still not sure that would be a big enough change for potential gossip.... I'll have to have a think. And that's my least favorite thing to do.

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urgaffel said:
Gossip eh? Well... We're definitely working on something. As for my part of the art, I've been doing a lot of testing and exploration with regards to smoke and dust, stuff that we haven't done before... ;)
So, working on something aside from the planned content/release? And smoke/dust that hasn't been done before.... I would say volumetric, but you sort of shot that down, then again, Nvidia Flow is pretty heavy, you could do a less strenuous volumetric effect, other games have...

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KickUp said:
At the time of @Hatward writing that Private Message I genuinely believed it was the case but after further investigation it turns out that our audio team couldn't give me a definitive answer and I suspect that was because they didn't get the car into its top gear based on where they did the recording. So it is a distinct possibility that the Focus has the wrong number of gears. 
I don't know if we can get round to fixing it as it has the potential to break a lot of other things so I'd rather we just leave it in the pile along with the wrong bodywork on the Impreza R4 and the wrong interior in the Burns Impreza. Mistakes happen when we make games and I'm just glad that it is stuff like this that we are getting called out on rather than some of the more fundamental things our previous games have been lambasted for.
I'm not happy with it and we need to improve our research methods in the future. Our car models, handling and audio are still considerably better than anything else out there in the rally genre but that doesn't mean that we can't be better than we are.  
Well, as someone has said, rally cars can be modified in many different ways. There's always the possibility of a Focus having a 6-speed out there. Also, that would also make it more competitive with the C4, as I believe one of the reasons Ford lacked some speed was because of their gearbox. I also agree with your last statement, you do a great job with trying to get as accurate as possible and your efforts really pay off. One question though, the bug on the speedos of the Alpine and the Stratos, are those also to be best left alone?

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@urgaffel Your name, when read in swedish, appears to be an ancient fork. Just an observation.

Sølv urgaffel fra Gense

Slv urgaffel fra Gense


Sorry, I had to..

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Wait, @urgaffel do you render that reflection you get from the headlight lens? (not from the bulbs, but from the sun/light hitting the lenses and reflecting back to the side of the road? 

I've either got a rendering issue, or that much detail is showing in game (not sure which setting gave it to me as i've recently drop several ultra options down to high)  It *could* be the advanced ambient occlusion i enabled?

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Wait, @urgaffel do you render that reflection you get from the headlight lens? (not from the bulbs, but from the sun/light hitting the lenses and reflecting back to the side of the road? 
I've seen that too, I think it is that much detail

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Was checking out some of the console previews when this one made me laugh.

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/17558/dirt-rally-ps4-preview-rally-sim-is-console-bound


See if you can spot some of the mistakes, one of them being pretty hilarious

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I personally think that the author had has his hands on a console release, where he found Renault 5 Maxi Turbo, Alpine A110, bonus Mexico stage and Stig's, a mean Paul's console cousin - Ben, as a co-driver :)

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By the sounds of it he was at the press event in Wales. It's funny because he started off calling Paul by his actual name, then quickly decided he was more of a Ben.

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 :D                                                                                                                                                

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It's just one of those days when you realize that your name suddenly changed to Paul "Ben" Coleman.

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