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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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With Loeb, Solberg, Block etc, the profile of RX will continue to snowball this year.

I think that it has Global appeal

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KevM said:
One thing I cant really get my head round though, if DiRT Rally maxes out the current gen consoles, do we need to wait on Console Hardware that can punch a lot harder to tick all those boxes?  
It's called "not putting something in". You would have to optimise the consoles so they would run the most important parts but sacrifice on the visuals. Probably this could even mean a 30FPS. Maybe 60FPS version for the PS4.5/Neo or however they'll be calling it. It's a possibility that can't be ignored, even though 60FPS for a sim is less than suitable. Then again it depends on optimisation. Evo studios showed that you can make 30FPS feel incredibly smooth on a console, something that DiRT Rally on a PC can't accomplish at all (the stuttering below 60FPS is dreadful).
dgeesi0 said:
yes sorry but i cant see rallyx doing anything.i dont mind a game of it once every few weeks or once a month but im not doing to play it like the main rally content of dirt rally.

thing is the team have invested alot on rallyx already.so it may be already dealt with and ready to start work on.so i guess we will see just cant see a sole rally x game doing well. even as dlc i think it would struggle.
Well, sorry, but that's just you. Some people out there enjoy doing RX a lot. The main thing that stops me personally from doing it more often is the lack of tracks and any form of some ranked multiplayer mode. Even the public lobby isn't that interesting.
A standalone RX game that would be more into simcade, with proper career mode and multiplayer behind it would probably bring in crowds. And I can't see a better team for that than Evolution guys.
its okay to disagree thats fine. a whole game on rallyx no.it wont sell.look over the years look at rallyx now even majority of people dont even know what rallyx is. its still way to niche.

to make it even close to a game you would have to have 30 odd courses multiplayer working great and thats one thing codies dont seem to get right.

just cant see it working.stick to the main bread and butter of rally and add rallyx as a option. just cause they have maybe better access to rallyx than most doesnt mean you should make a game soley on it.it wont work.

doesnt matter who drives in it kev.its way too limited.


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As a game, it wouldn't be my thing really, though ironically, it's the sport I think I would want to compete in most IRL if resources were unlimited!

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dgeesi0 said:
its okay to disagree thats fine. a whole game on rallyx no.it wont sell.look over the years look at rallyx now even majority of people dont even know what rallyx is. its still way to niche.

to make it even close to a game you would have to have 30 odd courses multiplayer working great and thats one thing codies dont seem to get right.

just cant see it working.stick to the main bread and butter of rally and add rallyx as a option. just cause they have maybe better access to rallyx than most doesnt mean you should make a game soley on it.it wont work.

doesnt matter who drives in it kev.its way too limited.
And you could say the same about rally. Usually those that know rally know about rallycross.

Also if anyone would be making that at this point, it can only be Evolution Studios, and they have a lot of experience in that stuff. Anyone remember that off-road racing game that is based on no discipline whatsoever and yet sold quite a lot? What was its name... oh yeah, Motorstorm.

WRX is becoming the thing more and more. By the time they'll finish the game (which will be 2 years at least) the sport is going to be a lot more known. That's something most people here are ignoring. Higher ups have to account for how the market will be when the game will release. There's no point planning a game for current market when you'll release it in few years.
On top of that it doesn't really matter if the sport is known or not. When it comes to racing games it's the racing that matters. From a fan perspective it's going to be a game about a motorsport their like. From a casual it's going to be a circuit racing game where you race on mixed surface.
Looking at it in terms of "how many people are interested in rallycross" is very narrow minded. For example, I'm not interested in rally as a motorspot. But being able to play a rally game? For sure. Same applies to basically every single motorsport with me. Entire community base from DiRT 3 and DiRT 2 are potential customers for the WRX title as well. Since what they are asking is something you can go easily and be it more casual. And that's something that a game based on rallycross would be perfect for.
RinusRally said:
RinusRally said:
If they do people will riot. This could be mean Codemasters downfall then. DR is a beginning of something good. A rally franchise that need to expand to a full sim. They can not create arcade or simcade games anymore, cause DR raised the bar.  
People giving me disagrees for this? What the h... If Codemasters release an arcade/simcade game it's like they saying: "We prefer money more than creating a full sim. Let us swim in the money, weee."
Because you fail to understand something. There's been quite a few interviews with Paul already where he more than obviously points that there WILL BE a direct successor to DiRT Rally.
On top of that, the fact they acquired Evolution Studios means that they will have a studio dedicated to making simcades, rather than having to force people who prefer doing sims to make simcades. In other words, they'll be releasing both sims and simcades. Get it to your thick elitistic head. Otherwise people will keep on disagreeing with your, quite honestly, BS.

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Entire community base from DiRT 3 and DiRT 2 are potential customers for the WRX title as well. Since what they are asking is something you can go easily and be it more casual. And that's something that a game based on rallycross would be perfect for.
He's right, look at how many people are asking for the gymkhana/rallyx stuff to be readded to the game. There's definitely some kind of market for it, whether it's as big as our currently vocal members claim it is or not, remains to be seen.

I don't see why we can't have 2 different DiRTs, DiRT Rally and DiRT Gymkhana/RallyX. 2 seperate games for 2 obviously different markets.

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Here is something to consider, everyone is right about game dev time.  

Outside of F1 2016, what major title are they going to release this year or early next?  

There has to be something cooking in south hamton
Grid3?

If there is a Grid3, they share some people with the Dirt Team, so who knows what that could mean.

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Trouble is, from a management point of view, Grid is done for. Grid 2 received pretty mixed reviews and poor reception from a lot of fans of the original, and Autosport didn't really sell because of that, despite being a better game. Where as Dirt 1, 2 and 3 did very well, showdown broke even despite its flaws, and Dirt Rally seems to have done very well, especially in reviews and its reception. It's likely that we will be seeing what Paul was talking about on absolute rally radio, and possibly something a bit different from the former evo studios guys.

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Given the experience with Dirt Rally, maybe Codies might try a more extreme street racing game? They painfully measured over 130km of rally tracks, why not the 20km of the Nordschleife? That said, competition there is probably much fiercer, unlike DR whose rivals are only the also-rans WRC 5 and SLRE. But a "racing game for men" might draw attention like DR did? Also, GT7 will probably come in 2045 or so. 

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I'm not sure if a standalone RX game would sell. I think it would be targeting too small a market. I seem to remember a conversation back when I visited codies about world RX wanting a standalone game, but the guys didn't think it would work. If you think about it, everyone who wanted to buy a RX game would have bought dirt rally already. So then take off all the people who only bought it for rally and hillclimb, you wouldn't be left with many people
As much as I'd love to see a standalone sim-oriented RallyX game with cars from the 60's Ford Cortina, to the Group B rallycross cars and all the way up to the modern era, the reality hurts. It simply is too niche and wouldn't sell. It's damn shame, frankly. 

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I have a very large $0.02 to put into this discussion of the future of rally games.

I believe that with technology at its current (and future) level, rally game studios (Codies & Milestone...WRC5 doesn't count for anything in my book) have painted themselves into a corner offering replicas of real-life stages. That's great, I am happy for it, as the twelve stages in DiRT Rally are truly superb.

The problem is that it now demands an incredible investment of time & energy & resources to make a new stage for a rally game. Codies has outdone themselves with the quality of the stages and I am thoroughly enjoying the attention to detail. However, in a nutshell, we are going to be stuck with rally games with very low number of stages for this very reason. It's just too expensive and time-consuming to have a whole bunch of people out in the field and in the office permanently coding new stages unless they drop the bar much lower than what we enjoy with DiRT Rally.

Which brings me to my suggestion. To make rally games enduring, the time has come to focus on stage creation algorithms. This would be two-part:

1. A random stage generator
2. A track creator

Let me explain how it would work and why I think it would be a huge addition to the rally game world and increase replay possibility by 100x.

Random Stage Generator
I admit that this would be nothing near the quality of stages we currently enjoy. That said, random track generation algorithms are nothing new. Gran Turismo and Little Big Planet Karting come to mind as recent examples, while there are plenty of examples going all the way back to the 1980's, like Stunts.

The main problem we have with random stage generation in rally is the pacenotes. The logic that creates the pacenotes would necessarily mean less than spectacular stages in order to accommodate for the triggers in the algorithm that would create relevant pacenotes.  Forget about stuff like "Be brave" here. But just imagine creating a 12-event league season with 144 stages that NO ONE has ever played before.

Track Creator
This would be a spin-off of the stage generator. We, the community, would create stages and upload them for the world to use. The algorithm could generate the pace notes based on our stage layout, and then we could go in and edit and/or add pacenotes (what is said, where, in what order, etc...). That would allow a virtually endless supply of tracks for rally fans, greatly extending the useful life of any rally game. You could feasibly end up with thousands of different Finland stages to choose from.

My inspiration for this comes from Little Big Planet, which was pronounced dead in the water by the gaming media before it was even released. Everyone was thinking "these devs are nuts, instead of making a game, they are going to ask the players to create the levels. Never work!" But the success of LBP is testament to the goodwill and dedication of a community that supports a game built on a great foundation. There are millions of levels to play. A lot are crap, yes, but there are thousands and thousands of gems out there, many of them even better than the levels the devs put into the games.

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dgeesi0 said:
hmmm and the project is..........                                                           
Cars.


I know it's late, but I think it's funny.

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dgeesi0 said:
its okay to disagree thats fine. a whole game on rallyx no.it wont sell.look over the years look at rallyx now even majority of people dont even know what rallyx is. its still way to niche.

to make it even close to a game you would have to have 30 odd courses multiplayer working great and thats one thing codies dont seem to get right.

just cant see it working.stick to the main bread and butter of rally and add rallyx as a option. just cause they have maybe better access to rallyx than most doesnt mean you should make a game soley on it.it wont work.

doesnt matter who drives in it kev.its way too limited.
And you could say the same about rally. Usually those that know rally know about rallycross.

Also if anyone would be making that at this point, it can only be Evolution Studios, and they have a lot of experience in that stuff. Anyone remember that off-road racing game that is based on no discipline whatsoever and yet sold quite a lot? What was its name... oh yeah, Motorstorm.

WRX is becoming the thing more and more. By the time they'll finish the game (which will be 2 years at least) the sport is going to be a lot more known. That's something most people here are ignoring. Higher ups have to account for how the market will be when the game will release. There's no point planning a game for current market when you'll release it in few years.
On top of that it doesn't really matter if the sport is known or not. When it comes to racing games it's the racing that matters. From a fan perspective it's going to be a game about a motorsport their like. From a casual it's going to be a circuit racing game where you race on mixed surface.
Looking at it in terms of "how many people are interested in rallycross" is very narrow minded. For example, I'm not interested in rally as a motorspot. But being able to play a rally game? For sure. Same applies to basically every single motorsport with me. Entire community base from DiRT 3 and DiRT 2 are potential customers for the WRX title as well. Since what they are asking is something you can go easily and be it more casual. And that's something that a game based on rallycross would be perfect for.
RinusRally said:
RinusRally said:
If they do people will riot. This could be mean Codemasters downfall then. DR is a beginning of something good. A rally franchise that need to expand to a full sim. They can not create arcade or simcade games anymore, cause DR raised the bar.  
People giving me disagrees for this? What the h... If Codemasters release an arcade/simcade game it's like they saying: "We prefer money more than creating a full sim. Let us swim in the money, weee."
Because you fail to understand something. There's been quite a few interviews with Paul already where he more than obviously points that there WILL BE a direct successor to DiRT Rally.
On top of that, the fact they acquired Evolution Studios means that they will have a studio dedicated to making simcades, rather than having to force people who prefer doing sims to make simcades. In other words, they'll be releasing both sims and simcades. Get it to your thick elitistic head. Otherwise people will keep on disagreeing with your, quite honestly, BS.
when the game is made and it sells terrible i will remind you.rx isnt the future.they trying to make it the future but it wont happen.who tells you its the future i will tell you the people invested in it or involved in it lol.

look at what all the main studios have done over the last few years. they have dropped their ip maybes. stuck to what is solid.many ips gone to dodo land. rx is one of those ones destined for it.

i have a natural talent for looking at games and know instantly.done it for many years was my job.rx isnt the way to go.its not even cause i dont enjoy it and basing it on that.its based on it wont work.its a side dish.always be a side dish.

think about it this simple. rally is a battle to win as fast as possible over many locations different weather brutal on the cars even death in some instances.the stages are long and triecious.its a real speed marathon locations are great it is everything in a big package.

rallycross. small fast cars racing round small tracks fast.its limited appeal.for small stadiums in general.its like extreme go carting.

so it will always play small brother to rally.

there is no need to reply.i understand you think it will work.

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If they do people will riot. This could be mean Codemasters downfall then. DR is a beginning of something good. A rally franchise that need to expand to a full sim. They can not create arcade or simcade games anymore, cause DR raised the bar.  
People giving me disagrees for this? What the h... If Codemasters release an arcade/simcade game it's like they saying: "We prefer money more than creating a full sim. Let us swim in the money, weee."

If Codemasters decides to switch to full sims with a release span every 2 or 3 years with rally, off-road, dakar, circuit-racing and whatever is pretty awesome than Codemasters can be the simulation-studio's of the world.

This can be something good for us simracers. People will take us seriously. And our games will not be flooded by cheaters, kiddo's, female streamers with dx-racers and many others.

It's good for codies, it's better for the sim-scene and it's the best for us sim-racers. 
A few points, Sim games are not profitable. They aren't accessible. I didn't even think about getting a Sim game until I got a wheel, about last year. At that point, Sim games have a VERY limited market, and I'm not someone who's going to bother trying to play with a keyboard. Sim's are also a lot more expensive than pretty much anything else. DR for $60 gets you the 12 stages? and 25 cars. AC gets you about the same, + the Nurburgring and some other extra cars, iRacing for $100 a year gets you just 13 cars and 14 tracks, which can be expanded to 53 cars and surprisingly 72 tracks, at an additional $11.95 per car, or up to $14.95 per track. RFactor 2 has a yearly subscription for $43.99 or lifetime for $84.99, which gets you 36 cars and 31 tracks. As you can see, the LESS content you actually have, the more money you can get. I won't even mention RaceRoom. Let's also not forget that these games are all also in their own niche, and NONE of them are anywhere near being perfect. They're all mediocre at best. They severely limit their playerbase, then charge up the yazoo for any content that should've been included (Especially iRacing) and don't make any money. (Except for iRacing, they get a whole new load of "sales" every year.)
Meanwhile, Forza Horizon 2 has 210 cars and an open world, complete with career mode, for $60. You can argue about Playground being much bigger, and sure, but they still give you significantly more premium content, and a massive play area, with better graphics, dynamic accurately modeled weather, and a full day/night cycle. And it sold A LOT. And it's a great game to play. It also has WAY more car classes than any of the previous games, and allows a full tuning setup of pretty much EVERYTHING on your car.

That took a while.
Next topic.
I really want to delve into this, because it's fantastic.
"And our games will not be flooded by cheaters, kiddo's, female streamers with dx-racers and many others."
That's right folks, we don't want kids or women playing our games! :D This is brilliant. I like how he point's out the chair. Like that makes any difference. :D Frankly, I find myself quite attracted to Female  DXRacer streamers... as long as she's attractive. I mean, I have standards.
I have a confession to make..... I have a DXRacer.... and it's fantastic....

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From my experience (which means mostly Eurogamer), console players are just as hyped about the rallying as the PC players are, and just as disinterested (in comparison) in Rallycross and Pikes Peak. Almost everyone thinks of Dirt Rally as a rally game, period. RX and Hillclimb being just a minor distraction to most, and completely uninteresting to many.

Dirt 1 was great in its time (I loved it too in the beginning), but a lot of the love was mainly for its then next-gen appeal. When people played their first X360/PS3 games on their newly-acquired HDTVs, they were blown away, and Dirt 1 was one of the prettiest games out there. Just like Motorstorm, it was a decidedly casual game whose incredible graphics and quantity of content somewhat overshadowed the relatively lacking gameplay depth.

But those super-casual games wore out after a few years. As the novelty of shiny HD graphics wore off, there was a growing demand for more engaging gameplay. If those preferences had not changed, Dirt 3 would have been much more successful than it was, and Motorstorm would still be alive, and many other famous arcade racers too. The latter years of last gen were dominated, especially on PS3, by games that were deeper than the ones of the first years. Dark Souls is remembered as a true classic, Assassin's Creed less so.

Driveclub followed the Motorstorm formula of shiny graphics with casual gameplay, and it's already abandoned. Shinier graphics aren't such a formula for success today as they used to be in the early days of HD gaming. Overall, as the average gamer has grown older (more mature?), the appeal of games that offer unique gameplay has risen.

Dirt Rally has made many players buy a wheel, a wheelstand, a better graphics card, or even a whole gaming PC. There are people who lost interest in gaming but spent large sums on PC hardware after they started playing Dirt Rally.

And again, very most of them are only interested in the rallying. Even when they suck at it, even when they only lose and die, they are enthused. There has been a shift from casual games where you win, to games that punish you but make you feel proud about every little advancement.

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I don't see ralycross disappearing at all. It's very quickly growing in popularity. I can only see it becoming more prominent in racing games. But as I said, I don't ever see it becoming popular enough to support its own standalone game. But if you are looking to have a side element in a rally game which involves contact racing, rallycross will ALWAYS be the number one choice, as it's the most popular and recognizable. I enjoy all the other previous offroad sports in dirt games like the trucks and buggies, but they're just not as popular. It isn't something that's going to disappear, no way.

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JZStudios said:
DR for $60 gets you the 12 stages? and 25 cars. 
There are 46 cars in DR and you could also count Pikes Peak as a stage, so 13 of those

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I don't see ralycross disappearing at all. It's very quickly growing in popularity. I can only see it becoming more prominent in racing games. But as I said, I don't ever see it becoming popular enough to support its own standalone game. But if you are looking to have a side element in a rally game which involves contact racing, rallycross will ALWAYS be the number one choice, as it's the most popular and recognizable. I enjoy all the other previous offroad sports in dirt games like the trucks and buggies, but they're just not as popular. It isn't something that's going to disappear, no way.
Rallycross tracks are too short for a standalone game, and rallycross is really cool in real life cause you feel all the bumps, crashes and more. In game its boring cause you dont feel anything. The close contact in rx gives the drivers adrenaline and more and thats why they like it.
I don't find RX in game boring at all. I think it provides some of the best moments in game when you are scrapping for positions flatout and sideways! You could compare any motorsport in a game and say it doesn't give you adrenaline the same as it would in real life. That's just what happens. The game does a brilliant job of giving you an incredibly realistic feel of driving a rally car on a special stage, but I could say its boring because I've been in a real rally car and it's not the same.

It has nothing to do with the nature of the sport, it just comes down to the very simple fact that rallycorss is not as popular as sports such as rallying, F1 and NASCAR which all have their own standalone games.

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Look how dull NASCAR "racing" can be, and it gets a massive gamer following

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KevM said:
Look how dull NASCAR "racing" can be, and it gets a massive gamer following
is it on a go cart sized track ?                                                     :p

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KevM said:
Look how dull NASCAR "racing" can be, and it gets a massive gamer following
True. Muricans..

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I don't see ralycross disappearing at all. It's very quickly growing in popularity. I can only see it becoming more prominent in racing games. But as I said, I don't ever see it becoming popular enough to support its own standalone game. But if you are looking to have a side element in a rally game which involves contact racing, rallycross will ALWAYS be the number one choice, as it's the most popular and recognizable. I enjoy all the other previous offroad sports in dirt games like the trucks and buggies, but they're just not as popular. It isn't something that's going to disappear, no way.
Rallycross tracks are too short for a standalone game, and rallycross is really cool in real life cause you feel all the bumps, crashes and more. In game its boring cause you dont feel anything. The close contact in rx gives the drivers adrenaline and more and thats why they like it.
I don't find RX in game boring at all. I think it provides some of the best moments in game when you are scrapping for positions flatout and sideways! You could compare any motorsport in a game and say it doesn't give you adrenaline the same as it would in real life. That's just what happens. The game does a brilliant job of giving you an incredibly realistic feel of driving a rally car on a special stage, but I could say its boring because I've been in a real rally car and it's not the same.

It has nothing to do with the nature of the sport, it just comes down to the very simple fact that rallycorss is not as popular as sports such as rallying, F1 and NASCAR which all have their own standalone games.
Totally agree. If only there were more circuits and a full event structure online. I see a massive hit in online leagues.

Having competed in a poor mans type of RX here in Sweden I get a similar rush of adrenaline on the start in DR.

I see RX as a perfect complement to Rally in a future Dirt Rally, not as a fully priced srand alone game.

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bogani said:
I see RX as a perfect complement to Rally in a future Dirt Rally, not as a fully priced srand alone game.
Or... a part of a different game that has more circuit based racing style. Would fit very well then.

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I agree with the last two posts, RX isn't quite ready to break out on it's own right now, as a compliment i think it works rather well though.

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rallycross is really cool in real life cause you feel all the bumps, crashes and more. In game its boring cause you dont feel anything.
Funnily enough you have just described a couple of my street racing friends opinion of DiRT Rally after they had tried it. "Looks great, handles great, no sense of feeling".

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bogani said:
I see RX as a perfect complement to Rally in a future Dirt Rally, not as a fully priced srand alone game.
Or... a part of a different game that has more circuit based racing style. Would fit very well then.
As I enjoy both rally and RX I'm gonna be selfish and say that RX fits very well in DR and want both diciplines to stay merged in the same game in the future as well.

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