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PJTierney

 

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It would be kinda cool that the damage of the car during the rally affects your economy, so if you have little money you need to be really careful with the car 
This can happen now. 

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KevM said:
On Xbox, the Kontinjarvi record for Grp B & R4 are only a few seconds difference.  Shouldn't be the case

The Grp B would be simulated to be among the lightest cars in the game, the R4 simulated to be heaviest.

Weight in the simulation seems to act purely or mainly as a vertical force only, returning to centre too readily across all cars.  
The greater weight of the R4 Evo pulling it in a downward direction, means it has abundant usable grip which makes it easy to drive, but far too fast/grippy at speed.  Gigi Galli would be bored with a D:R Evo X :P

As the Grp B car is lighter, with less gravitational grip, the lateral forces (g force) have a greater influence on the cars behaviour and the car moves around in a more natural realistic way.  The tyre model works well with the Group B weight.  Brake lock ups mean understeer, punching the throttle mid corner means big oversteer & that's accurate 

Mechanical grip is increased in a heavier car but that shouldn't make it faster in the real world.  
My guess is that lateral (g) force needs a multiplier that increases to the value of simulated weight, causing larger lateral forces in heavier cars which can then overcome the greater vertical grip they produce

R4's should be easier to drive, but because of the greater lateral forces with the additional weight, Steering inputs on gravel should feel muted & indirect especially on wide open throttle or heavy braking.  Grip loss should happen earlier, be more progressive & slower and more adjustable by transferring weight.  

Group B should feel mental & kinda do on the slower sections, but 125mph Quattro power-slides should be there to be tamed...

:)
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.

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KickUp said:
Say I have a question regarding Rally ending charshes @KickUp
When you grash badly enough can you manually retire or will the game automaticly retire for you like in Dirt Rally?
You can always manually retire. 
If you cause enough damage terminal damage will occur. 
But will terminal damage automaticly end the game or is it up to the player to determine that the damage is terminal and the end the game themselves? The way dirt rally did it was annoying because you could never see the actual crash, it just went slow motion and stopped half way.

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KickUp said:
Say I have a question regarding Rally ending charshes @KickUp
When you grash badly enough can you manually retire or will the game automaticly retire for you like in Dirt Rally?
You can always manually retire. 
If you cause enough damage terminal damage will occur. 
But will terminal damage automaticly end the game or is it up to the player to determine that the damage is terminal and the end the game themselves? The way dirt rally did it was annoying because you could never see the actual crash, it just went slow motion and stopped half way.
Crashes will play out for longer but a terminal ending impact will result in that sequence playing out. 

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@KickUp can we filter leaderboards by car as well as class in Dirt 4? And will there be seperate uploaded times for each car in a class? In Dirt Rally it's a shame there's no leaderboards for individual cars. For example the Mini in 1960s gets outclassed by the A110 on the leaderboards.

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Bazenza said:
@KickUp can we filter leaderboards by car as well as class in Dirt 4? And will there be seperate uploaded times for each car in a class? In Dirt Rally it's a shame there's no leaderboards for individual cars. For example the Mini in 1960s gets outclassed by the A110 on the leaderboards.
Potentially. We were limited by the platform holders on DiRT Rally. With DiRT 4 we are using RaceNet so that opens up opportunities. It may be that we filter rather than having car specific leaderboards though. 

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@KickUp will it be possible to create a custom championships with more than 5 rallies in it? For example, will we be able to create season with Australia, Michigan, Sweden, Wales and 2 x Spain in it? Thanks in advance and big thank you for your work.


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bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...

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KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)

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@KickUp will it be possible to create a custom championships with more than 5 rallies in it? For example, will we be able to create season with Australia, Michigan, Sweden, Wales and 2 x Spain in it? Thanks in advance and big thank you for your work.


Current plan is to allow 12 events in a championship with 12 stages in each. 

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KevM said:
On Xbox, the Kontinjarvi record for Grp B & R4 are only a few seconds difference.  Shouldn't be the case

The Grp B would be simulated to be among the lightest cars in the game, the R4 simulated to be heaviest.

Weight in the simulation seems to act purely or mainly as a vertical force only, returning to centre too readily across all cars.  
The greater weight of the R4 Evo pulling it in a downward direction, means it has abundant usable grip which makes it easy to drive, but far too fast/grippy at speed.  Gigi Galli would be bored with a D:R Evo X :P

As the Grp B car is lighter, with less gravitational grip, the lateral forces (g force) have a greater influence on the cars behaviour and the car moves around in a more natural realistic way.  The tyre model works well with the Group B weight.  Brake lock ups mean understeer, punching the throttle mid corner means big oversteer & that's accurate 

Mechanical grip is increased in a heavier car but that shouldn't make it faster in the real world.  
My guess is that lateral (g) force needs a multiplier that increases to the value of simulated weight, causing larger lateral forces in heavier cars which can then overcome the greater vertical grip they produce

R4's should be easier to drive, but because of the greater lateral forces with the additional weight, Steering inputs on gravel should feel muted & indirect especially on wide open throttle or heavy braking.  Grip loss should happen earlier, be more progressive & slower and more adjustable by transferring weight.  

Group B should feel mental & kinda do on the slower sections, but 125mph Quattro power-slides should be there to be tamed...

:)
r4 scooby in dirt rally was bang on the evo a bit odd.

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BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!

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KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.

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BadD0g said:
KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.
I'm with you. Let's take it for a spin first. Chase cam always make things look strange.

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bogani said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.
I'm with you. Let's take it for a spin first. Chase cam always make things look strange.
What if I told you that the driving is recorded separately to the recording of the video? Would that help explain why it looks a bit off in chase cam?

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BadD0g said:
KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.

To add to this, there's one of the videos out there that shows how high they have the aids turned up (Erased Citizens one?)

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Can't wait to find out more - honestly was.t that excited from the original press release and trailer, but the more questions you answer the more intrigued I get.

I know it's unlikely, but are you able to say when the next 'information release' is planned/embargoed for? No worries if not, have a good weekend!

OT: anyone here going to Rally Sweden this week?

Didzis said:
Checking my points I realized that I have more profile visits even than Paul :D , and I don't know why LOL, it Must be a glitch
Just checked, so do I. And I even have more badges than him :D
RodgerDavies i will go on rally sweden.. i live in the same county ;)

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BadD0g said:
KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.
Paul Coleman is passionate about what he produces.  He & the guys have always taken suggestions from the community & act upon them if necessary.  

The last simulation model had a weirdness likened to a hovercraft & he's fixed that with the help of Kris & Petter.

My worry is, Kris has made a simulation of a hovercraft 'feel' a bit more 'like' a Rally car.  He knows what a car does, but this isn't a car, isn't a road, isn't weight or grip or gravity, it's all just numbers on a computer.  If a natural real life force is missing from the simulation or not behaving as it would, & it's a parameter that can't be engineered into the mechanics of a real car, it would be hard for an engineer to get the head round it, to even suggest tweaking it

HEAVY SH#T, HUH?? lol

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KickUp said:
@KickUp when the mystery location Will be unveiled? Could you give us any hint? 
It's a mystery
Guys, I'm pretty sure "Mystery" is just a randomizer. Remember that one of the things this game is about, is the unknown. The "Mystery" option is there exactly for that, so that you can fill a championship with mystery rounds, for which you won't know what's coming. This is only my opinion, of course, but I would bet there's no other country to be included. If there was, they simply wouldn't have showed it in the build. 

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KickUp said:
bogani said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.
I'm with you. Let's take it for a spin first. Chase cam always make things look strange.
What if I told you that the driving is recorded separately to the recording of the video? Would that help explain why it looks a bit off in chase cam?
I'm not sure I get what you mean? My point was it's hard to judge much from looking at chase cam. To me chase cam always makes the car look like it's behaving strange, no matter what game!

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bogani said:
I'm not sure I get what you mean? My point was it's hard to judge much from looking at chase cam. To me chase cam always makes the car look like it's behaving strange, no matter what game!
I'm lost.  I was going by the Solberg vid where he wipes out a few corners in

Meeke did a run with a crazy hairpin too, both bonnet cam

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KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.
Paul Coleman is passionate about what he produces.  He & the guys have always taken suggestions from the community & act upon them if necessary.  

The last simulation model had a weirdness likened to a hovercraft & he's fixed that with the help of Kris & Petter.

My worry is, Kris has made a simulation of a hovercraft 'feel' a bit more 'like' a Rally car.  He knows what a car does, but this isn't a car, isn't a road, isn't weight or grip or gravity, it's all just numbers on a computer.  If a natural real life force is missing from the simulation or not behaving as it would, & it's a parameter that can't be engineered into the mechanics of a real car, it would be hard for an engineer to get the head round it, to even suggest tweaking it

HEAVY SH#T, HUH?? lol
Hopefully Kris and Petter are aiming at making the cars feel as close to the real things as much as possible. CM really have the best people to help them dial it as much as the EGO engine allows.

There was one video of Kris overshooting a junction that puzzled me as the car magically turned in extremely easy, but I have no idea which handling model that was.

What makes me calm is that the testers all state it feels similar to DR but a bit trickier on the brakes which is awesome as braking should require some more finesse than in DR.

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