Jump to content

DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

Message added by PJTierney

Recommended Posts

KevM said:
Paul Coleman is passionate about what he produces.  He & the guys have always taken suggestions from the community & act upon them if necessary.  

The last simulation model had a weirdness likened to a hovercraft & he's fixed that with the help of Kris & Petter.

My worry is, Kris has made a simulation of a hovercraft 'feel' a bit more 'like' a Rally car.  He knows what a car does, but this isn't a car, isn't a road, isn't weight or grip or gravity, it's all just numbers on a computer.  If a natural real life force is missing from the simulation or not behaving as it would, & it's a parameter that can't be engineered into the mechanics of a real car, it would be hard for an engineer to get the head round it, to even suggest tweaking it

HEAVY SH#T, HUH?? lol
When you word it like that, it makes it seem like you think you know better than the people working on the game, or that you don't trust that they know how to fix the issues. I'm suggesting that you don't have enough information to determine whether the game has handling issues. Just sit tight and wait for more information, we've got 4 months worth of potential gossip ahead of us.  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BadD0g said:
When you word it like that, it makes it seem like you think you know better than the people working on the game, or that you don't trust that they know how to fix the issues. I'm suggesting that you don't have enough information to determine whether the game has handling issues. Just sit tight and wait for more information, we've got 4 months worth of potential gossip ahead of us.  ;)
Not at all, but another way to look at it is, if it's a problem, they have 4 months to tweak it & what we'll get is even closer to perfect.

I can't do a U turn, Days before the big reveal, I posted this:-

KevM said:
...oh, & Codies, if the new game doesn't handle just like this, please go back to the drawing board  :D 

https://youtu.be/1sAbQ5wRr0o



It's what we want, we just haven't had it to know it yet!! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's hard to tell what handling modes are being used in these off screen videos. But if you can see the cars coming to pretty instant stops and turning too quickly assume it's the arcade. As I mentioned before, the braking distances have been increased from dirt rally, which felt a lot more realistic 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bogani said:
KickUp said:
bogani said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.
I'm with you. Let's take it for a spin first. Chase cam always make things look strange.
What if I told you that the driving is recorded separately to the recording of the video? Would that help explain why it looks a bit off in chase cam?
I'm not sure I get what you mean? My point was it's hard to judge much from looking at chase cam. To me chase cam always makes the car look like it's behaving strange, no matter what game!
Chase cam is weird in itself.
On top of that our B roll footage is captured by our video team but to do that they get a run that captures the position of the car from our car handling team. So, the car's position is recorded but it's not a live recording and that means that the damping values that a live chase cam has get lost in translation so it actually ends up looking even more weird. 
I'm not happy with it but that's how it's been done and so all I can ask people to do is not judge the feeling of the game based on videos they have seen. 

Edit. If the footage is over the shoulder then it is live and from the game. If that is the case then its more than likely to be Gamer Handling.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KickUp said:
Chase cam is weird in itself.
Well, few would disagree on that note (ok, just me...)

On that note @KickUp I have a question or two:
- Will we be able to adjust the chase camera to our liking, just like in CMR2.0 or Rocket League? By that I mean angle, height, how much it follows the car, how quickly it comes back etc.
- Is the arcade mode actually arcade or is it simcade (aka can the car spin while going through a corner without the use of handbrake or collisions, if yes then simcade, if not then arcade)? If second, please name it simcade rather than arcade. I hate it when developers/journalists say "arcade" while they are providing/talking about "simcade". Small thing, makes a world of difference to those with peculiar OCDs :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KickUp said:
Chase cam is weird in itself.
Well, few would disagree on that note (ok, just me...)

On that note @KickUp I have a question or two:
- Will we be able to adjust the chase camera to our liking, just like in CMR2.0 or Rocket League? By that I mean angle, height, how much it follows the car, how quickly it comes back etc.
- Is the arcade mode actually arcade or is it simcade (aka can the car spin while going through a corner without the use of handbrake or collisions, if yes then simcade, if not then arcade)? If second, please name it simcade rather than arcade. I hate it when developers/journalists say "arcade" while they are providing/talking about "simcade". Small thing, makes a world of difference to those with peculiar OCDs :D
Chase cam doesn't have adjustment. 

We've never called it arcade. In the demo we called the choices Normal & Simulation. We have no control over how it gets reported. 

I guess you could describe it as simcade but I hate that term. 

I think we are going to go with Gamer & Simulation in the final version. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dammit Paul. Go to sleep! ;)                                          

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KickUp said:
Chase cam doesn't have adjustment.
Ahh, shame. Still won't be able to see what's behind the corner when entering a slide xD
KickUp said:
We've never called it arcade. In the demo we called the choices Normal & Simulation. We have no control over how it gets reported. 

I guess you could describe it as simcade but I hate that term. 

I think we are going to go with Gamer & Simulation in the final version. 
Fair enough. Although no idea why you would hate that term. It describes the physics perfectly aka combination of arcade and sim or sim and arcade, however one may like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KickUp said:
Edit. If the footage is over the shoulder then it is live and from the game. If that is the case then its more than likely to be Gamer Handling.  
That's good.  If you give your customer base a 'simulation' mode and big yard to test it in, it WILL get analysed and critiqued.  

I couldnt get my head round not being able to donut an M3 on gravel in D:R, but my fun in the 6R4 tells me it's a tweak somewhere rather than a fundamental error in values.  If it's not centrifugal force/inertia values, it's a tweak to how the tyre model shares grip between the x y planes.

Crack it & we can go through Wales like the Master himself.   B)

Night all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KickUp said:
bogani said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
BadD0g said:
KevM said:
bogani said:
If simulated properly with primitive tires and suspension Grp B would be nowhere near the WRC cars.
I don't disagree at all.

The point I am making is, the DiRT Rally Group B 6R4, gives the best feeling of balance of grip and centrifugal/lateral forces, but it's behaviour isn't in keeping with the simulation of the car it's meant to be.  It should be even more mental!! lol

If we have a choice of driving modes in D4, then there's no point playing it safe & accessible with the 'simulation ' handling.  Crank the forces up & make the drivers work...
You say all this having not played Dirt 4 yet! I think it's safe to assume they've sorted most of the issues DR had.  ;)
We've seen the gameplay videos though.  I can see DR 'issue' is better.  
But a tyre can't slide sideways & accelerate full forwards both at once. It can do just one or the other, or a complex blend of both!
But that's just a gameplay video- of an unfinished build, no less. How do you know the gameplay video wasn't recorded in the arcade handling mode? All I'm saying is that we have a long way to go before we can start critiquing the handling.
I'm with you. Let's take it for a spin first. Chase cam always make things look strange.
What if I told you that the driving is recorded separately to the recording of the video? Would that help explain why it looks a bit off in chase cam?
http2bpblogspotcom-vCY876FGefQUQOnMc-P20IAAAAAAAAHAsosISNLISCuws1600copy-of-a-copygif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I re-watched the Dirt Show and had a look at the stage generator menu, I'm very happy to see that not only are there a LOT more weather options, they're also completely separate from the time-of-day option. That should make for some fun combinations, like mist in Wales instead of all-out rain like in DR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Off topic, sorry, but I've just began listening to Jonathan Colling's incredible music on Spotify. It's this entire album with music from all CMR games, including the entire CMR 2.0 soundtrack. Holy balls is he a genius (at play)!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Off topic, sorry, but I've just began listening to Jonathan Colling's incredible music on Spotify. It's this entire album with music from all CMR games, including the entire CMR 2.0 soundtrack. Holy balls is he a genius (at play)!
I still think DiRT 4 should have some original composed tracks. Not a big fan of licensed-only soundtracks.

Hah, that reminds me of an awful track selection: Avril Lavigne - Girlfriend in Burnout Paradise :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey devs, just wanted to give my input that I LOVE the chase cam you set in Dirt Rally. I use it all the time.

I play with a controller and chase cam, with all assists off (except the exterior camera option obviously). In first person, I cannot feel the weight of the car shifting or how it is losing  or catching grip because I can't feel any g force, and the fact that the view is fixed straight ahead, even when dirfting feels really unnatural. The chase cam works great to compensate all that. The camera moves in a way that accentuates how the car is behaving.

I know its an odd thing to compliment, but after I bought a certain other rally simulator, with the name of a certain rally legend on its title, I could not believe how bad chase cams can get. Its really bad in that "certain game". The camera works really unpredictably, especially when you need precision in a simulator. Ugh.

So thank you for the work on the chase cam and keep it up.

Now I have a question on something else: How will the championship work in D4 with 12 events and 5 locations? Will we be repeating locations for the same championship? Won't that feel... repetitive?
I know the stages will be unique with Your Stage tech, but the scenery would still be generally the same.

I hope you can give us all 12 locations in the future with Your Stage tech (if it works well). It would be fantastic to feel like you are globe trotting fighting for the championship at the highest level, similar to your F1 games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slow day for the gossip thread.


                                                                                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My one small concern about "Your Stage" is how many deja vu feelings I will have while doing the stages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey devs, just wanted to give my input that I LOVE the chase cam you set in Dirt Rally. I use it all the time.

I play with a controller and chase cam, with all assists off (except the exterior camera option obviously). In first person, I cannot feel the weight of the car shifting or how it is losing  or catching grip because I can't feel any g force, and the fact that the view is fixed straight ahead, even when dirfting feels really unnatural. The chase cam works great to compensate all that. The camera moves in a way that accentuates how the car is behaving.

I know its an odd thing to compliment, but after I bought a certain other rally simulator, with the name of a certain rally legend on its title, I could not believe how bad chase cams can get. Its really bad in that "certain game". The camera works really unpredictably, especially when you need precision in a simulator. Ugh.

So thank you for the work on the chase cam and keep it up.

Now I have a question on something else: How will the championship work in D4 with 12 events and 5 locations? Will we be repeating locations for the same championship? Won't that feel... repetitive?
I know the stages will be unique with Your Stage tech, but the scenery would still be generally the same.

I hope you can give us all 12 locations in the future with Your Stage tech (if it works well). It would be fantastic to feel like you are globe trotting fighting for the championship at the highest level, similar to your F1 games.
Championships can be set up with up to 12 events but it is up to you if you ever want to use the full 12 events. Given that you can generate a near infinite variety of stages within the 5 locations you could set up 12 events all in Wales and have a different 12 stages in each event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KickUp said:
Hey devs, just wanted to give my input that I LOVE the chase cam you set in Dirt Rally. I use it all the time.

I play with a controller and chase cam, with all assists off (except the exterior camera option obviously). In first person, I cannot feel the weight of the car shifting or how it is losing  or catching grip because I can't feel any g force, and the fact that the view is fixed straight ahead, even when dirfting feels really unnatural. The chase cam works great to compensate all that. The camera moves in a way that accentuates how the car is behaving.

I know its an odd thing to compliment, but after I bought a certain other rally simulator, with the name of a certain rally legend on its title, I could not believe how bad chase cams can get. Its really bad in that "certain game". The camera works really unpredictably, especially when you need precision in a simulator. Ugh.

So thank you for the work on the chase cam and keep it up.

Now I have a question on something else: How will the championship work in D4 with 12 events and 5 locations? Will we be repeating locations for the same championship? Won't that feel... repetitive?
I know the stages will be unique with Your Stage tech, but the scenery would still be generally the same.

I hope you can give us all 12 locations in the future with Your Stage tech (if it works well). It would be fantastic to feel like you are globe trotting fighting for the championship at the highest level, similar to your F1 games.
Championships can be set up with up to 12 events but it is up to you if you ever want to use the full 12 events. Given that you can generate a near infinite variety of stages within the 5 locations you could set up 12 events all in Wales and have a different 12 stages in each event.
Yes they could be really different stages but the type of the road is the same, with 5 locations I am pleased, but I would like more :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Will rallycross and landrush cars be limited to only rallycross and landrush tracks or is there a chance to drive them on Your Stage tracks as well? And also the other way round - rally cars on rallyX or Landrush tracks?
Also, will there be a photo mode?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's hard to tell what handling modes are being used in these off screen videos. But if you can see the cars coming to pretty instant stops and turning too quickly assume it's the arcade. As I mentioned before, the braking distances have been increased from dirt rally, which felt a lot more realistic 
The default at the London event seemed to be "normal", so I suspect that's what a lot of people were playing with: first thing I did was go and switch to "sim" :smiley:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uhm why was DiRT Rally added to a XCOM 2 package on Steam 6 hours ago? 
https://steamdb.info/app/310560/history/

Edit: After checking what other games are in there, it seems to be a collection of Linux compatible games.
GRID Autosport and F1 2015 are in there as well. Still, why call it XCOM 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uhm why was DiRT Rally added to a XCOM 2 package on Steam 6 hours ago? 
https://steamdb.info/app/310560/history/
Its the @Porkhammer Alien Edition 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×