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PJTierney

 

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KickUp said:
Damage does not change with difficulty but the damage is more likely to be event ending if you have a big impact.
KickUp said:
I agree that if you have first hand experience of crashing in rally then DR forgives but from a game design persepctive we wanted to encourage players to keep driving rather than restarting the stage or quitting.
Aren't those statements in contradiction?
I would expect more realistic damage for sim mode while more forgiving in beginner. How can what you have written be achieved with the same damage level for both modes?

I could answer myself: with "balanced" (PR buzzword) damage. But I believe it's not what sim-side of community expects.

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MaXyMsrpl said:
KickUp said:
Damage does not change with difficulty but the damage is more likely to be event ending if you have a big impact.
KickUp said:
I agree that if you have first hand experience of crashing in rally then DR forgives but from a game design persepctive we wanted to encourage players to keep driving rather than restarting the stage or quitting.
Aren't those statements in contradiction?
I would expect more realistic damage for sim mode while more forgiving in beginner. How can be what you have written achieved with the same damage level for both modes?


It's harder to crash on casual mods cause you have assists. IMHO that's the game design perspective. You still should be prevented from finishing after a real hard crash on whatever difficulty level you're playing - this way games preparing you for higher difficulty levels.

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MaXyMsrpl said:
KickUp said:
Damage does not change with difficulty but the damage is more likely to be event ending if you have a big impact.
KickUp said:
I agree that if you have first hand experience of crashing in rally then DR forgives but from a game design persepctive we wanted to encourage players to keep driving rather than restarting the stage or quitting.
Aren't those statements in contradiction?
I would expect more realistic damage for sim mode while more forgiving in beginner. How can what you have written be achieved with the same damage level for both modes?

I could answer myself: with "balanced" (PR buzzword) damage. But I believe it's not what sim-side of community expects.

The first bit is speaking about DiRT 4 and the fact that all modes and difficulties will have the same damage rules. We have made the cars softer and more suscpetible to damage in DiRT 4 because we want all players to experience the repairs and endurance aspects of rallying.

The second bit is speaking about DiRT Rally and the ethos we applied there.

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MaXyMsrpl said:
KickUp said:
Damage does not change with difficulty but the damage is more likely to be event ending if you have a big impact.
KickUp said:
I agree that if you have first hand experience of crashing in rally then DR forgives but from a game design persepctive we wanted to encourage players to keep driving rather than restarting the stage or quitting.
Aren't those statements in contradiction?
I would expect more realistic damage for sim mode while more forgiving in beginner. How can what you have written be achieved with the same damage level for both modes?

I could answer myself: with "balanced" (PR buzzword) damage. But I believe it's not what sim-side of community expects.

It's more likely to the damage is event ending from a big impact in DiRT 4 compared to a big impact in DiRT Rally is what I get from reading that.

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KickUp said:
The first bit is speaking about DiRT 4 and the fact that all modes and difficulties will have the same damage rules. We have made the cars softer and more suscpetible to damage in DiRT 4 because we want all players to experience the repairs and endurance aspects of rallying.

The second bit is speaking about DiRT Rally and the ethos we applied there.
Thank you for clarifying. I'm good with that. thx

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Rygar86 said:
I'm curious, you guys still getting planked on download charges/limits?
Were you referring to my post? If so: In Australia atm there are many options and plenty of isp's that offer unlimited plans for reasonable prices. Some people still choose limited plans I guess, but I I think that's nuts in this day and age and so my plan is unlimited.
I remember when as a family we had a 1GB a month limit, seems so tiny now!
Memory and storage is the thing that still amazes me. A few years ago* we were struggling to fit a single .jpeg image on a floppy disk. I remember paying a fortune for a 1 GB memory stick just a few years ago and being astounded that I could fit a handful of (blocky) videos on it...

...now memory is ridiculously cheap and you can have an entire library of high quality music and video on a dinky little memory card.


*Alright, it was quite a lot of years ago. 

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tbtstt said:
Rygar86 said:
I'm curious, you guys still getting planked on download charges/limits?
Were you referring to my post? If so: In Australia atm there are many options and plenty of isp's that offer unlimited plans for reasonable prices. Some people still choose limited plans I guess, but I I think that's nuts in this day and age and so my plan is unlimited.
I remember when as a family we had a 1GB a month limit, seems so tiny now!
Memory and storage is the thing that still amazes me. A few years ago* we were struggling to fit a single .jpeg image on a floppy disk. I remember paying a fortune for a 1 GB memory stick just a few years ago and being astounded that I could fit a handful of (blocky) videos on it...

...now memory is ridiculously cheap and you can have an entire library of high quality music and video on a dinky little memory card.


*Alright, it was quite a lot of years ago. 
Yeah technology has really accelerated in recent years especially storage, my 64gb memory stick was about £30 lol

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I feel like the age of some of these technologies is often exaggerated, though, in that if you remember/used floppy discs then it's assumed you're very old. My sister's only 15 and she very clearly remembers the VCR and large video cassettes and audio cassettes, and my brother who turned 18 this month still remembers the floppy discs.

These things may not be quite as old as the impression I get from the internet would suggest.

Then again, we were still using an old box TV until about 2-3 years ago, so it may just be that we're just really late to the 21st century...

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MaXyMsrpl said:
What else if not PR?
D:R is far from unforgiving (comparing to real life), giving opportunity to exploit it in non-realistic manner.
The fact, players cannot manage a car doesn't mean that game is unforgiving. It does mean it's too hard or/and not suitable for some of them. But in fact DR forgives a lot.
I think @kickup interview statement that is annoying you was actually in regards to Dirt Rally being a very different breed of rally game than almost anything before it in terms of what it consistantly demands from the players ability, and the demand is there right from the start. A lot of people had never played anything like it before and were simply unable to get to grips with it early on, when compared to previous games, as it really demanded more of their time and patience. I think the part that people might have found unforgiving is that due to the realism of Dirt Rally's handling, mistakes are always punished, at least as far as your time is concerned. But usually in the begining, it resulted in a lot more than just lost time and would lead to a big crash or at least an off. I guess for some people there was too many of those moments too early on. 

But those who gave it time found an increasingly deep and rewarding experience but it seems like there were plenty who didnt and the interview statement was referring to those people. 

I personally relished the challenge and overall enjoyed getting my arse kicked (still do) because I knew it was my fault, at least after they fixed the physics.

If Dirt 4 eases people into things a little better than Dirt Rally did (and it certainly seems that way) then that can only be a good thing, because the more people who play, the better games they can make in the future and everybody wins. I think rally games deserve a lot more love and every one should play them because rally is awesome and brutal and beautiful and Dirt Rally is all of those things too. Dirt 4 looks set to make more people fall in love with the sport just as I did when I first played Colin McRae 1, and accessability is a big factor in that happening.

Just as long as they always keep the hardcore mode available  ;)

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789ifyz said:
I feel like the age of some of these technologies is often exaggerated, though, in that if you remember/used floppy discs then it's assumed you're very old. My sister's only 15 and she very clearly remembers the VCR and large video cassettes and audio cassettes, and my brother who turned 18 this month still remembers the floppy discs.

These things may not be quite as old as the impression I get from the internet would suggest.

Then again, we were still using an old box TV until about 2-3 years ago, so it may just be that we're just really late to the 21st century...
 :D As I would prefer to not be deemed "very old" yet, I would like to think that technology has, in some areas, progressed very quickly. 

I'm in my early 30's now and I'm sure the floppy disk was still in heavy usage when I was 20, so it isn't that long ago. Ditto for the VCR as well. I had my last CRT TV well over 5 years ago though, so you are behind there @789ifyz!  

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i think the thing is many people wanted a challenge which is what dirt rally brought.dirt 3 in comparision i could eat my dinner and still drive it flat out and win every race. for many casual people they like that they can jump in and easily have fun and rally .

what must not be forgotten is though that having a real challenge and learning was what brought Dirt series back on track not arcade easyness which is why it did take a nose dive fot a while.cant wait to try out the game and fully push the game to see if with the sim handling on we have a dirt rally game with different content.




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Didzis said:
urgaffel said:
50Gb is roughly what you can fit on bluRay so it makes sense that most games are around that size these days. Painful when you buy things digitally though... :(
Half an hour or so and it should be downloaded :D 

edgenz said:
cgiugu said:
Dirt4 requirements:
http://www.game-debate.com/news/22580/official-dirt-4-system-requirements-revealed


Whoah! GTX980 recommend...

Might have to turn a few details down on my RX480 then...
lol - sadness. The RX480 is the card I'm considering for a budget upgrade from my HD7950 :(
The RX480 isn't that far off from the GTX980, the 980 is maybe 10-15% faster overall (for now)
Does that mean you have a 200 Mbit line? 

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Rygar86 said:
Didzis said:
urgaffel said:
50Gb is roughly what you can fit on bluRay so it makes sense that most games are around that size these days. Painful when you buy things digitally though... :(
Half an hour or so and it should be downloaded :D 

edgenz said:
cgiugu said:
Dirt4 requirements:
http://www.game-debate.com/news/22580/official-dirt-4-system-requirements-revealed


Whoah! GTX980 recommend...

Might have to turn a few details down on my RX480 then...
lol - sadness. The RX480 is the card I'm considering for a budget upgrade from my HD7950 :(
The RX480 isn't that far off from the GTX980, the 980 is maybe 10-15% faster overall (for now)
Does that mean you have a 200 Mbit line? 
Actually 250 Mbit :D

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While we are waiting for DiRT 4, here is a flying Trophy Truck...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D94uZPKQcA

...not the best "Recoil" video, but it does make me keen to play with the Pro trucks in DiRT 4!

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Never did see the appeal of those, myself... but on the topic of trophy trucks, I did record the Dirt 2 AI doing something nutty a couple of years back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jpw4omL7Q4

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Never did see the appeal of those, myself... but on the topic of trophy trucks, I did record the Dirt 2 AI doing something nutty a couple of years back:

That was majestic

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Never did see the appeal of those, myself... but on the topic of trophy trucks, I did record the Dirt 2 AI doing something nutty a couple of years back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jpw4omL7Q4

Beautiful take off, good rotation and a flat landing. 


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KickUp said:
I would assume it will deped on the difficoulty level you choose. 

But I have a different question @KickUp many rallygames are very geared towards the player having to win every single rally to progress. Dirt Rally fixed that problem somewhat since you won money even if you didn't win. Is DiRT4 continuing in that same direction? I think not striving to get first can really help with the mentality of the players in the long run.


With regards to the AI difficulty you will be able to find a challenge more appropriate to your skill.
I really really agree with KingOfCoins here. One of the reasons I've invested so much into DR is that it was unforgiving - very very difficult to beat the top AI times, but i could still progress without winning. It trained me into getting over my need to win everything and taught me how to just enjoy the journey of improving - and when I saw improvement it was insanely satisfying.

Is the handling mode and the AI difficulty separate options? 
And are AI times still spread out in the earlier events and tighter in the later events like in DR, or am I going to find it much easier to beat the top AI times early on in D4?

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edgenz said:
KickUp said:
I would assume it will deped on the difficoulty level you choose. 

But I have a different question @KickUp many rallygames are very geared towards the player having to win every single rally to progress. Dirt Rally fixed that problem somewhat since you won money even if you didn't win. Is DiRT4 continuing in that same direction? I think not striving to get first can really help with the mentality of the players in the long run.


With regards to the AI difficulty you will be able to find a challenge more appropriate to your skill.
I really really agree with KingOfCoins here. One of the reasons I've invested so much into DR is that it was unforgiving - very very difficult to beat the top AI times, but i could still progress without winning. It trained me into getting over my need to win everything and taught me how to just enjoy the journey of improving - and when I saw improvement it was insanely satisfying.

Is the handling mode and the AI difficulty separate options? 
And are AI times still spread out in the earlier events and tighter in the later events like in DR, or am I going to find it much easier to beat the top AI times early on in D4?

I need to +1 this; I've rarely found a game as satisfyingly challenging. I have never won a championship on DR, just the odd rally, but it's one of the things that makes it feel more real to me. 

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urgaffel said:
Something something motion blur something something options maybe mumble mumble....
Thank heavens! I can't think of a more useless feature in ... well, any game, really.


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edgenz said:
KickUp said:
I would assume it will deped on the difficoulty level you choose. 

But I have a different question @KickUp many rallygames are very geared towards the player having to win every single rally to progress. Dirt Rally fixed that problem somewhat since you won money even if you didn't win. Is DiRT4 continuing in that same direction? I think not striving to get first can really help with the mentality of the players in the long run.


With regards to the AI difficulty you will be able to find a challenge more appropriate to your skill.

 I really really agree with KingOfCoins here. One of the reasons I've invested so much into DR is that it was unforgiving - very very difficult to beat the top AI times, but i could still progress without winning. It trained me into getting over my need to win everything and taught me how to just enjoy the journey of improving - and when I saw improvement it was insanely satisfying.

Is the handling mode and the AI difficulty separate options? 
And are AI times still spread out in the earlier events and tighter in the later events like in DR, or am I going to find it much easier to beat the top AI times early on in D4?

I have similar feelings on that subject. I don't mind "losing" in video games. It's penalties for losing that annoy me - specifically: the inability to progress & experience the game in its entirety.

Many games have much of their content & experience "locked" (for lack of a better word) behind requirements for winning, and I simply can't always win (or I don't have all the time needed to win as many levels/events as games require to progress). It bugs me when games show off & sell a bunch of content that many customers may never get to experience simply because they can't "git gud" enough (or devote endless amounts of time) for that content to become available to them in-game.

For example: some car/motorsport games advertise huge rosters of exotic cars to drive - but they don't tell you that those cars cost more in-game currency than you could ever hope to earn, and you may only get access to 20% (or less) of all those advertised cars (unless you grind away for the next 97 years of your life just to save up enough in-game currency to buy/unlock all those cars).


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Agreed. The "competetive season" format in DR is much closer to what actual racing is like. You're not going to win every event you compete in throughout your entire career, so when games have a "first or nothing" system in their career mode it doesn't really make sense. That's one of the reasons I was never able to get into Xpand Rally. I liked the rest of the game, but you reach a progression wall if you don't place first in enough events.

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urgaffel said:
Something something motion blur something something options maybe mumble mumble....
Thank heavens! I can't think of a more useless feature in ... well, any game, really.


It's nice if it's done well, and still gets good framerate and frame pacing. Most don't though.

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