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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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BadD0g said:





MaXyMsrpl said:
Regarding steering... I would say, f*** game pads. Want precise steering? Use steering wheel.
If you asking for translation of 90* degree rotation (about 8cm) into a few mm done with small stick... you asking for some aid/assistence.  






Codemasters haven't had any trouble getting the gamepad to feel right. The gamepad feel in DR is really excellent and can be adjusted significantly to allow for precision, so it's definitely possible. Don't discount a large portion of the audience because they don't have a wheel, especially for a game that is being marketed to consoles as well as PC.




Typical steering wheel snob comment. :smiley: I'd love a wheel, just haven't got the budget for one!

I agree with the comments concerning steering feel on the pad. DiRT Rally is a challenge no matter what controller you use, but you can be precise - and the game can be mastered - with a pad. I can't wait to see what final tweaks CM have made for DiRT 4.

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MaXyMsrpl said:

If you asking for translation of 90* degree rotation (about 8cm) into a few mm done with small stick... you asking for some aid/assistence.


A bit off-topic, but how tiny is your wheel? Or did you just mix up cm with inches? On my DFGT those 90° are about 22-23 cm :D 

bogani said:

Since the userbase will probably be 95% pad users it's like shooting yourself in the foot not getting pads to work properly.


It's probably not an accurate representation, but when looking at daily/weeklt/monthly events, the distribution between wheel and controller drivers is pretty much equal. I just find that interesting

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Didzis said:



MaXyMsrpl said:

If you asking for translation of 90* degree rotation (about 8cm) into a few mm done with small stick... you asking for some aid/assistence.




A bit off-topic, but how tiny is your wheel? Or did you just mix up cm with inches? On my DFGT those 90° are about 22-23 cm :D 


bogani said:


Since the userbase will probably be 95% pad users it's like shooting yourself in the foot not getting pads to work properly.




It's probably not an accurate representation, but when looking at daily/weeklt/monthly events, the distribution between wheel and controller drivers is pretty much equal. I just find that interesting


I would think only 10-15% of the consumers regularly participate in dailies, and wheel users are probably over represented there. Just speculation though :)

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i never get on pc why people play with a xbox controller when for same as a pad new you could get a 2nd hand Logitech DFGT.

pad users will outweigh wheel users.so it makes sense to get it right.pcars though dont have sense.so i guess it will stay broken :D

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dgeesi0 said:

i never get on pc why people play with a xbox controller when for same as a pad new you could get a 2nd hand Logitech DFGT.

pad users will outweigh wheel users.so it makes sense to get it right.pcars though dont have sense.so i guess it will stay broken :D


Thats only for PC though, doesn't work on PS4, neither does my G25 :(

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dgeesi0 said:

i never get on pc why people play with a xbox controller when for same as a pad new you could get a 2nd hand Logitech DFGT.

pad users will outweigh wheel users.so it makes sense to get it right.pcars though dont have sense.so i guess it will stay broken :D


A wheel can be used for only driving games while a controller can be used for pretty much any game. If you're primarily a racing game player,  getting a wheel makes sense, but if you play a bit of everything, a controller will be more versatile (that's coming from a wheel player)

On a completely unrelated note, super glue is a pain in the a$$ to get off your fingers :D

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Didzis said:







MaXyMsrpl said:

If you asking for translation of 90* degree rotation (about 8cm) into a few mm done with small stick... you asking for some aid/assistence.








A bit off-topic, but how tiny is your wheel? Or did you just mix up cm with inches? On my DFGT those 90° are about 22-23 cm :D






Yeah, you are right with your notice. I had reminded diameter (about 31cm), then divided it by 4. Of course I should mention 22cm for 90 degree.
Besides of this, I never understood while some might want to be master of motorsport while using small sticks of game pad. I understand that there are a lot of players who just don't own steering wheel which imply their non-interest to this sport/game genre. In turn they should be aware, it's impossible to reach the same precision in driving a simulated car with small stick comparing to steering wheel. Even if developers are doing their best to 'cheat' the reality by programming complex filtering with non-linear interpolation, extrapolation and other aids.

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MaXyMsrpl said:







Didzis said:











MaXyMsrpl said:

If you asking for translation of 90* degree rotation (about 8cm) into a few mm done with small stick... you asking for some aid/assistence.












A bit off-topic, but how tiny is your wheel? Or did you just mix up cm with inches? On my DFGT those 90° are about 22-23 cm :D










Yeah, you are right with your notice. I had reminded diameter (about 31cm), then divided it by 4. Of course I should mention 22cm for 90 degree.
Besides of this, I never understood while some might want to be master of motorsport while using small sticks of game pad. I understand that there are a lot of players who just don't own steering wheel which imply their non-interest to this sport/game genre. In turn they should be aware, it's impossible to reach the same precision in driving a simulated car with small stick comparing to steering wheel. Even if developers are doing their best to 'cheat' the reality by programming complex filtering with non-linear interpolation, extrapolation and other aids.




Can't agree more with you @MaXyMsrpl , how would you pretend to drive a 1000hp LMP1 and be competitive with a pad, it isnt even easy one a wheel, driving with an analogue making micro inputs always Will be super though, wheels arent so much expensive right now, entry level wheels cost 80usd or you can get 2nd hand wheels for even cheaper than DiRT 4 pre-order...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122451477378
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262940683072

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FloatingGrass said:
Nothing biased about disagreeing with the majority.


Of course. Problem is when you shove things that aren't true to make a game look better than it actually is, which is exactly what they do. I call that a bias.

MrDeap said:
Maybe Team VVV need time to get out of the comfort zone & accept defeat, maybe close down the channel... Who know...


I'd really like the last option personally :D

dgeesi0 said:

i never get on pc why people play with a xbox controller when for same as a pad new you could get a 2nd hand Logitech DFGT.


Well, partially because not everywhere you can get a 2nd hand Logitech DFGT and partially because you can use a gamepad with pretty much every game, apart from the strategies (and even there we have exceptions) while a steering wheel is useful for... well, racing games only. And not even all of them xD And then they have to be properly supported as well. And then there's the fact that not everyone wants a steering wheel that has someone sweat all over it. I personally wouldn't.

Oh, and a DualShock 4 (for which any driver apart from the useless Steam ones can make it work like an X360 gamepad and compatible with pretty much every game) costs half the price of a decent used DFGT in Poland. New DualShock 4. I believe the term you'd use to describe the gamepads here would be "better value for money" or "more versatile" ;)

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MaXyMsrpl said:

Yeah, you are right with your notice. I had reminded diameter (about 31cm), then divided it by 4. Of course I should mention 22cm for 90 degree.


You forgot about Pi, you needed to divide the circumference not the diameter
 

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this is what I've confirmed already. 30cm diameter * Pi / 4 (for 90*) is about 23cm. Originally I took diameter only which is wrong of course.

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My body craves more Dirt 4 footage!                              

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For console gamers my guess is that 80% of the users are on a pad. So to ignore the pad or provide a poor implementation is commercial suicide. 

Can a pad give the best simulation experience ? Of course not. However it should be possible to convey some of the characteristics of the different cars through the pad and at the same time give the pad user a satisfying handling experience. 

I think codies have done this really well on dirt rally. Part of this is to do with the background from where they come from. If you look at PCars that game was focused from the start on sim, sim, sim. That's fine, and sim racers want a great wheel experience. But when they decided to release on console that's a different marketplace and not getting the controller right is just alienating a significant proportion of your user base. The thing they did get right was showing on the leaderboards who was using pads and who was using wheels. Because that means that if wheel users feel pad users are over assisted (and its almost impossible to get the balance 100% right)  then at least they can choose to judge themselves against similar competitors. I am 100% confident that Pcars 2 will get good pad control, either at the start or eventually be patched in. They just got too much heat over it in PCars 1 not to get it right this time.

Codies come more from a simcade background and although Dirt rally is significantly more sim like, with the pad its obvious that years worth of experience with the pad has enabled them to come up with a good pad experience. Where they struggled more initially was with the wheel, but they did quite a lot of work with that IIRC with a wheel expert and according to most people made significant improvements. I have no idea what the wheel experience is like on Dirt rally but most people on the forums seem to think it is pretty good.

For me console is all about making a great game and an enjoyable experience for the majority, which like it or not is on pad. But by making a great game and shipping a ton of units you get the development money to put in features that the more hardcore want. Such as better sim performance. So its almost certain the game sales to the pad users that fund the developments of the system for the wheel users/sim racers. It's also probably true that most people who are sim racers on consoles start out on pads, then choose to buy a wheel when they want to up the experience. So without making good pad racing games, the sim user community would be much smaller.

The final thing I would say is that IMO it is far easier to turn a complex sim racing game into a simcade game (reducing the handling difficulty etc) than it is to turn a simcade game into a sim racing game. You can reduce the difficult of something quite easily, but adding in extra complexity is the hard stuff. With the Dirt Rally sim model I think they have an excellent opportunity to produce both a good game and a good sim. 

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dgeesi0 said:



i never get on pc why people play with a xbox controller when for same as a pad new you could get a 2nd hand Logitech DFGT.

pad users will outweigh wheel users.so it makes sense to get it right.pcars though dont have sense.so i guess it will stay broken :D






Thats only for PC though, doesn't work on PS4, neither does my G25 :(




You can make it work on PS4 with GIMX adapter. I use this myself from time to time with my G27 (G25 and DFGT are also supported).
It might be a bit tricky on software part, though.

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dgeesi0 said:



i never get on pc why people play with a xbox controller when for same as a pad new you could get a 2nd hand Logitech DFGT.

pad users will outweigh wheel users.so it makes sense to get it right.pcars though dont have sense.so i guess it will stay broken :D






Thats only for PC though, doesn't work on PS4, neither does my G25 :(




You can make it work on PS4 with GIMX adapter. I use this myself from time to time with my G27 (G25 and DFGT are also supported).


Hows the force feedback on it? I think I read about it a while ago and it was sketchy?

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Didzis said:



dgeesi0 said:


i never get on pc why people play with a xbox controller when for same as a pad new you could get a 2nd hand Logitech DFGT.

pad users will outweigh wheel users.so it makes sense to get it right.pcars though dont have sense.so i guess it will stay broken :D


On a completely unrelated note, super glue is a pain in the a$$ to get off your fingers :D


Lots and lots of Acetone.

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