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PJTierney

 

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KevM said:

Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware


@KickUp If you are looking for some very nice rally locations to add as future DLC I invite you to come to the "Loire Atlantique" here in France. There are so many beautiful routes to create and the region is great. Many winefields, hills, winding roads to garantee lots of fun with any rallycar out there ;)

Btw: The wine is very tasty as is the food :dizzy:  

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KevM said:



Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware
I'd bet the next things to achieve are:
  1. Road deformation
  2. Few cars simulatenously on track (rally staggered starts)
  3. Tyres - softs/hards and the simulation of worning them off (is it how you call it?)
If they achieve this, they will be the kings of motorsport games forever. 

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Longer stages as well.

Not a fan of the "done all they can with the current hardware" myth. How many times have we heard that from developers? It's asotnishing how much software can advance on fixed hardware.

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versedi said:












KevM said:





Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware
I'd bet the next things to achieve are:
  1. Road deformation
  2. Few cars simulatenously on track (rally staggered starts)
  3. Tyres - softs/hards and the simulation of worning them off (is it how you call it?)
If they achieve this, they will be the kings of motorsport games forever. 




Road deformation is my number one hope in future. While it was arcade, Sega Rally Revo's road deformation was beautiful and very satisfying but I know how taxing realistic physics is on a system, BeamNG is a good example

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bogani said:

Longer stages as well.

Not a fan of the "done all they can with the current hardware" myth. How many times have we heard that from developers? It's asotnishing how much software can advance on fixed hardware.


I thought this one's obvious :D 
With the progress/evolution of game engine I think it is unstoppable. 

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KevM said:


Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware


Why you say so ? There is waaay more things they could do with current hardware. Physics may be improved, but they will still be very far from perfect (if aiming for realism). They haven't even reached the level of simulation of RBR, because as far as I know current engine cannot do that so for me personally there are allot thing to desire. 


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versedi said:









KevM said:




Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware
I'd bet the next things to achieve are:
  1. Road deformation
  2. Few cars simulatenously on track (rally staggered starts)
  3. Tyres - softs/hards and the simulation of worning them off (is it how you call it?)
If they achieve this, they will be the kings of motorsport games forever. 


you know what i played a rally mod yesterday on assetto corsa and im surprised its not already in todays games.what the guy done in the mod is amazing.the car i was using was a wrc fiesta and the way it moved on tarmac/asphalt almost had me breathless.was nigh on perfect.also a car width track no mistakes go unpunished.really brings home the speed like that though.


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Call me crazy, but I'd love to see the Dirt Rally stages brought into Dirt 4 as a DLC, maybe even as a free DLC or with a couple of cars for a few dollars, I think it would be brilliant, but apparently first they would need to make sure there would be no legal issues.

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Flykas said:






KevM said:




Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware




Why you say so ? There is waaay more things they could do with current hardware. Physics may be improved, but they will still be very far from perfect (if aiming for realism). They haven't even reached the level of simulation of RBR, because as far as I know current engine cannot do that so for me personally there are allot thing to desire. 








I don't think RBR's physics is as detailed as people think, for its time definitely but these days it mainly feels like its always got the same grip level no matter what and it doesn't 'bite' so sometimes it feels good but other times it feels like you're driving on ice. RSRBR does make it better but its not perfect and while I think it did some stuff better than DR, D4 will surpass it.

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dgeesi0 said:



versedi said:












KevM said:





Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware
I'd bet the next things to achieve are:
  1. Road deformation
  2. Few cars simulatenously on track (rally staggered starts)
  3. Tyres - softs/hards and the simulation of worning them off (is it how you call it?)
If they achieve this, they will be the kings of motorsport games forever. 




you know what i played a rally mod yesterday on assetto corsa and im surprised its not already in todays games.what the guy done in the mod is amazing.the car i was using was a wrc fiesta and the way it moved on tarmac/asphalt almost had me breathless.was nigh on perfect.also a car width track no mistakes go unpunished.really brings home the speed like that though.




I've tried that and it does actually work really well on tarmac, even on some of the mod gravel tracks its ok and kinda fun

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dgeesi0 said:





versedi said:















KevM said:






Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware
I'd bet the next things to achieve are:
  1. Road deformation
  2. Few cars simulatenously on track (rally staggered starts)
  3. Tyres - softs/hards and the simulation of worning them off (is it how you call it?)
If they achieve this, they will be the kings of motorsport games forever. 






you know what i played a rally mod yesterday on assetto corsa and im surprised its not already in todays games.what the guy done in the mod is amazing.the car i was using was a wrc fiesta and the way it moved on tarmac/asphalt almost had me breathless.was nigh on perfect.also a car width track no mistakes go unpunished.really brings home the speed like that though.






I've tried that and it does actually work really well on tarmac, even on some of the mod gravel tracks its ok and kinda fun


The car models are impressive but to me it still feels like a GT3 car with a rally skin.


Mods are neat but most of the time I just want to drive quality content. For every good mod there are 100 bad ones.

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Flykas said:








KevM said:





Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware





Why you say so ? There is waaay more things they could do with current hardware. Physics may be improved, but they will still be very far from perfect (if aiming for realism). They haven't even reached the level of simulation of RBR, because as far as I know current engine cannot do that so for me personally there are allot thing to desire. 











I don't think RBR's physics is as detailed as people think, for its time definitely but these days it mainly feels like its always got the same grip level no matter what and it doesn't 'bite' so sometimes it feels good but other times it feels like you're driving on ice. RSRBR does make it better but its not perfect and while I think it did some stuff better than DR, D4 will surpass it.


Well I guess we don't need another RBR vs Dirt discussion and I know that some times dirt may feel better, because it tries to replicate the feeling instead of simulating it (also there are additional compromises to make the game less difficult) it doesn't even have proper tyre physics (for example, when a car stops suddenly it should sway a little on the tires). So to answer the question "where do we go from here ?" I'd say new physics engine. 

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versedi said:
KevM said:

Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware
I'd bet the next things to achieve are:
  1. Road deformation
  2. Few cars simulatenously on track (rally staggered starts)
  3. Tyres - softs/hards and the simulation of worning them off (is it how you call it?)
If they achieve this, they will be the kings of motorsport games forever. 







Yeah it seems like Road Deformation and Tyre Wear/Choices are things that Codies are maybe close to implimenting but havn't yet had the time or budget to achieve.

I would also add:

4. Longer stages (as already mentioned)
5. Complete "Replay System" overhaul
6. Extra sliders for your stage, like elevation controls for instance etc.
7. Full Rally Cross season with all 12 tracks
8. Several more locations, like New Zealand, Africa, Mexico, Japan etc
9. Some extra cars
10. "Your Stage" Hill Climb locations.

As things that would keep people buying Dirt games/ DLC for quite some time, without any major "game changing" developments happening or hardware advances needed to sell lots of units in the future. Especially since "Your Stage" is the biggest "game changer" of all and its only just about to be released.

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bogani said:








dgeesi0 said:







versedi said:


















KevM said:







Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware
I'd bet the next things to achieve are:
  1. Road deformation
  2. Few cars simulatenously on track (rally staggered starts)
  3. Tyres - softs/hards and the simulation of worning them off (is it how you call it?)
If they achieve this, they will be the kings of motorsport games forever. 








you know what i played a rally mod yesterday on assetto corsa and im surprised its not already in todays games.what the guy done in the mod is amazing.the car i was using was a wrc fiesta and the way it moved on tarmac/asphalt almost had me breathless.was nigh on perfect.also a car width track no mistakes go unpunished.really brings home the speed like that though.








I've tried that and it does actually work really well on tarmac, even on some of the mod gravel tracks its ok and kinda fun




The car models are impressive but to me it still feels like a GT3 car with a rally skin.


Mods are neat but most of the time I just want to drive quality content. For every good mod there are 100 bad ones.



well the mod we are talking about is actually a great one couple it with semtin which is a really tight car width road on asphalt the way the car moves over bumps and uneven ground is close to reality.one thing dirt misses is when you jump or go over uneven ground it feels flat . on the mod you can feel both sides of the car reacting through the steering.

this is the track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYARYzYiT6E

while the graphics are bad the feel is great. im hoping Dirt 4 has that feel on the asphalt .

also the width of the track really adds to rally.this really needs to be addressed as it gives a better perspective to speed and danger when its tight.

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Wow, thats looks impressive for a proper game let alone a mod! Maybe its the camera recording but the graphics dont look bad to me at all.

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Flykas said:









Flykas said:










KevM said:






Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware






Why you say so ? There is waaay more things they could do with current hardware. Physics may be improved, but they will still be very far from perfect (if aiming for realism). They haven't even reached the level of simulation of RBR, because as far as I know current engine cannot do that so for me personally there are allot thing to desire. 














I don't think RBR's physics is as detailed as people think, for its time definitely but these days it mainly feels like its always got the same grip level no matter what and it doesn't 'bite' so sometimes it feels good but other times it feels like you're driving on ice. RSRBR does make it better but its not perfect and while I think it did some stuff better than DR, D4 will surpass it.




Well I guess we don't need another RBR vs Dirt discussion and I know that some times dirt may feel better, because it tries to replicate the feeling instead of simulating it (also there are additional compromises to make the game less difficult) it doesn't even have proper tyre physics (for example, when a car stops suddenly it should sway a little on the tires). So to answer the question "where do we go from here ?" I'd say new physics engine. 


You start off by saying we don't need another RBR vs DR debate yet you start one? ;)

Vanilla RBR was excellent and ahead of it's time, but it's obsolete by now. By todays standards it's too hard to keep the car on the road in RBR. Hard as in really too hard. Realistic and hard isn't the same thing.
NGP fixed most of these things but I really don't like dealing with mods anymore.

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dgeesi0 said:



bogani said:












dgeesi0 said:









versedi said:





















KevM said:








Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware
I'd bet the next things to achieve are:
  1. Road deformation
  2. Few cars simulatenously on track (rally staggered starts)
  3. Tyres - softs/hards and the simulation of worning them off (is it how you call it?)
If they achieve this, they will be the kings of motorsport games forever. 










you know what i played a rally mod yesterday on assetto corsa and im surprised its not already in todays games.what the guy done in the mod is amazing.the car i was using was a wrc fiesta and the way it moved on tarmac/asphalt almost had me breathless.was nigh on perfect.also a car width track no mistakes go unpunished.really brings home the speed like that though.










I've tried that and it does actually work really well on tarmac, even on some of the mod gravel tracks its ok and kinda fun






The car models are impressive but to me it still feels like a GT3 car with a rally skin.


Mods are neat but most of the time I just want to drive quality content. For every good mod there are 100 bad ones.





well the mod we are talking about is actually a great one couple it with semtin which is a really tight car width road on asphalt the way the car moves over bumps and uneven ground is close to reality.one thing dirt misses is when you jump or go over uneven ground it feels flat . on the mod you can feel both sides of the car reacting through the steering.

this is the track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYARYzYiT6E

while the graphics are bad the feel is great. im hoping Dirt 4 has that feel on the asphalt .

also the width of the track really adds to rally.this really needs to be addressed as it gives a better perspective to speed and danger when its tight.



What needs to be adressed? Making tape measured roads more narrow than what they are?

Spain IRL is quite wide running on two lane roads most of the time so if you are awaiting Sementin type of roads there you're going to be disapointed.

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yes that is often the issue with mods.the delivery to get them working downloading messing about.

this is why games needs to put in a decent base or allow for dlc with the content people actually want.

euro hillclimb
more cars
more known locations

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dgeesi0 said:

yes that is often the issue with mods.the delivery to get them working downloading messing about.

this is why games needs to put in a decent base or allow for dlc with the content people actually want.

euro hillclimb
more cars
more known locations



Yup. I understand the appeal of mods but I prefer quality official content these days.

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There's one issue people seem to forget about the DLC locations. Paid or free?

If they go with paid, then MP experience will suffer because people that don't have those locations, won't be able to join the lobbies with those locations and those that have those bought won't be able to use those freely if they don't want half of the lobby to suddenly disappear. On top of that paid locations usually become completely dead shortly after release. Battlefield is a perfect example of that, pretty much every DLC released from BF3 has become impossible to play 3 months after its release. There are few exceptions to that like the Ziba Tower in BF3 and... that's all I can really think of.

Locations are probably the biggest time sink even with the Your Stage tech so naturally the accountants want to monetise on that but at the same time it would be best for the MP experience if the locations would be released for free and the paid DLCs would basically be liveries, cars etc. In other words things that don't restrict people in terms of what they can play.

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i think the thing is though this isnt bf. :D

if codies brought more locations as DLC the primary people who brought them would most likely be for single player.mp isnt the main focus as of yet. so i think it could work. true what you say about how it works with bf though. the base game locations are always the most popular as it splits the player base into smaller groups.

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bogani said:



Flykas said:













Flykas said:












KevM said:







Where do they go from here though?  Soon, we'll have infinite stages & fixed handling.  DLC locations & Car packs are probable, as what would a new game bring to the party?  CM will have to wait for next gen to work on the next big game-changer?  They've done all they can with current hardware







Why you say so ? There is waaay more things they could do with current hardware. Physics may be improved, but they will still be very far from perfect (if aiming for realism). They haven't even reached the level of simulation of RBR, because as far as I know current engine cannot do that so for me personally there are allot thing to desire. 

















I don't think RBR's physics is as detailed as people think, for its time definitely but these days it mainly feels like its always got the same grip level no matter what and it doesn't 'bite' so sometimes it feels good but other times it feels like you're driving on ice. RSRBR does make it better but its not perfect and while I think it did some stuff better than DR, D4 will surpass it.






Well I guess we don't need another RBR vs Dirt discussion and I know that some times dirt may feel better, because it tries to replicate the feeling instead of simulating it (also there are additional compromises to make the game less difficult) it doesn't even have proper tyre physics (for example, when a car stops suddenly it should sway a little on the tires). So to answer the question "where do we go from here ?" I'd say new physics engine. 




You start off by saying we don't need another RBR vs DR debate yet you start one? ;)

Vanilla RBR was excellent and ahead of it's time, but it's obsolete by now. By todays standards it's too hard to keep the car on the road in RBR. Hard as in really too hard. Realistic and hard isn't the same thing.
NGP fixed most of these things but I really don't like dealing with mods anymore.


Well the main point was to say that there are many things to improve in Dirt rally :] But I know that it isn't Codies style to aim for true sim, but hey they got my hopes up 

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Flykas said:

Well the main point was to say that there are many things to improve in Dirt rally :] But I know that it isn't Codies style to aim for true sim, but hey they got my hopes up 






At this point, Im just happy that they have apparently fixed the dodgy aero and noticebly improved the tarmac physics :smiley: Thats why I would love to see the Dirt Rally stages in Dirt 4, because those stages are awesome and loveingly made (works of art to be honest) and they deserve it. Plus the extra weather options would be nice too!

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In the next game I bet they will use the newer ego engine making everything better. The current one they're using is quite outdated. 

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