DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

gfRally said:

I really like your idea @Areyouben , but the A roll/b roll could be simplified if the replays could just be optionally saved after each stage, so it can be watched at another time.  This would allow you to ff and rw from any camera at any placed camera you select.  Make sense?  Saving replays makes all this a lot simpler.  Again I like your idea, there just maybe another way to the same end :)

You mean like the original Driver had on the PS?

[Darhour 3]

VirtuaIceMan said:

It is all WIP at this stage, I believe. I don't think it'll outdo Dirt Rally, but it's always fun to have competition in the genre :-) I've got all of the previous rally games on PC.

Yes, I encourage the fact that we should have a lot of rally games at our disposable, but they need to fix the engine sound *whispering* :blush: 

[Evilsmurf 90]

I'll pick up SLRE I suspect, as I still need a Rally game for my PS4 :)

[VirtuaIceMan 92]

And here comes WRC5... reminds me of V-Rally 3 :-p

That said, they have devs from ex-SimBin (GTR) and ex-Eden (V-Rally), but they seem to be not the main physics people of those games, more the creative types: http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments/Ex-SimBin-and-Eden-Games-staff-working-on-WRC-5-new-developer-diary-released

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wViqWA55X5k

[gfRally 449]

Areyouben said:

gfRally said:

I really like your idea @Areyouben , but the A roll/b roll could be simplified if the replays could just be optionally saved after each stage, so it can be watched at another time.  This would allow you to ff and rw from any camera at any placed camera you select.  Make sense?  Saving replays makes all this a lot simpler.  Again I like your idea, there just maybe another way to the same end :)

So you mean you'd have an option to manually select any camera at any point and kinda scroll trough the cameras? I think both would be nice to have ultimately. Nice thing of the a-roll/b-roll thing is that you can just select one roll and watch the whole replay with nice long cuts without doing anything. The nice thing of the 'select your camera at any point' thing would be to really get some custom shots where you choose the lengths of every shot yourself.

@Areyouben sorry I think I didn't understand that you mention 2x automated camera views, that can be switched between, yes I do like that.

[Benniz 13]

The Milestone stages just don't look real, it's hard to say what makes it that way, but they just don't look authentic. I do recognize areas from the real stages of Rally Sweden though.

[MastaVonBlasta 2]

Just like others I also like the fact that this year we'll have three rally games come out. In my personal view, DiRT Rally has set the bar rather high...

Milestone has been dropping screens, teasers and environment previews for a while, supposedly to generate interest and maybe hype. And that's all good even if the players are left wanting some gameplay of cars actually going down a stage.

But what is the point of letting someone play pre-alpha code and capture gameplay with "physics not implemented"? Yeah I get it that audio and visuals are not final, but why would you allow such incomplete build to be driven "without physics"? Let alone capture it...

Maybe the textures and cars will end up looking well, but that's not the point! The point is to have stages, which are believable and detailed; and to have an authentic and rewarding handling model. I guess the winter stages do not offer much variety, butthey look so 'tunnel-like' in SLRE...

When it comes to WRC5 my suspicion is that it well end up quite arcadey.

They're still months away from a release and may improve drastically, but I'll definitely wait for a demo.


Back to DiRT Rally Gossip: do we have a date for the Pikes Peak update? :D  Mayhe there's a hint somewhere out there...

[KickUp 0]

#128

[MastaVonBlasta 2]

KickUp said:

#128

Oh no you didn't! :O  




128 hours from now would give 4.30pm on Monday 25th...

[MastaVonBlasta 2]

More gameplay of SLRE:
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/ps4-gameplay-reveal-sebastian-loeb-rally-evo/2300-6424887/

Hmmm... Rally game market is crowded? Not in my opinion.. It may be by the end of the year ;)  That video does not help my impression. Even if one shouldn't judge the handling by videos, it looks very similar to what Milestone have produced before.  That gamespot voice over guy hasn't got a clue what rally is....

I look forward to seeing what DiRT Rally will be when Winter Wonderland is released. From what I gather the cars behave very differently on snow/ice with studded tyres. The speeds through corners are very high and one can really go sideways :D

I also think getting the stiffness/bounciness of the snow banks right will be very important and difficult. On one hand at times I'd like to be able to lean on the snow bank on exit to get back onto the middle of the road. However, if you got into the bank at a wrong angle or with too much speed it will swallow you in... In any case I can't wait :)

[couger1981 89]

Judging by the timeline it looks like it will be out in the first week of June?

[justbiglee 0]

GentleNameMVB said:

KickUp said:

Cool, not going to promise anything but its good to know what you are wanting.

It seems that @gfRally would like a GTA5 style director mode :)  I also think it would have been awesome to place cameras where you want them and adjust lens parameters and camera settings. 

I guess it comes down to personal preference whether one would pick such a custom replay feature over other new additions such as a rally school or stages with dynamic conditions (ruts, sweeping).

Back to the Gossip: I also had some hopes that the team would show some Rallycross gameplay at Lydden Hill this weekend, but perhaps it's just not ready yet.

Are any of the team members going to do any sound recordings or telemetry on the cars? @KickUp 

Here's a question for you then and it's part of the problem that we face internally.

If you could have a camera mode thing like a few of suggested or say a rally school are that we could use for lots of things which one would you want?  

[MartijnvH 12]

justbiglee said:

GentleNameMVB said:

KickUp said:

Cool, not going to promise anything but its good to know what you are wanting.

Back to the Gossip: I also had some hopes that the team would show some Rallycross gameplay at Lydden Hill this weekend, but perhaps it's just not ready yet.

Are any of the team members going to do any sound recordings or telemetry on the cars? @KickUp 

Here's a question for you then and it's part of the problem that we face internally.

If you could have a camera mode thing like a few of suggested or say a rally school are that we could use for lots of things which one would you want?  

@justbiglee Rallyschool for sure!

[RallyDriven 398]

rallyschool! Or another location!

[Pennyworth 0]

@justbiglee definitely a rally school

[MastaVonBlasta 2]

justbiglee said:

Here's a question for you then and it's part of the problem that we face internally.

If you could have a camera mode thing like a few of suggested or say a rally school are that we could use for lots of things which one would you want?  

Tough one, as in all honesty I would check out any of these two features once and not use them again. I'd love to have time to create awesome replays and edits, but I know I won't have it. It's such a tough choice, because the rally school would be used by most players and not used again. But the director's mode has the potential to last for players who commit to it.

If I'd have to pick I'd go for the Rally School/test area. The test area would be used to gain small car performance upgrades by achieving consistent stage times and doing them cleanly for objectives (max speed, apex speed).

I won't be helpful at all by saying that I would prefer a different feature all together: stages with dynamic surfaces which have random and car generated ruts, rocks and bumps which develop over a multi-class rally... But that's a big feature.

Or a large area with obstacles to practice on. For example Battersea Power Station...

I've just go an idea for a new suggestion: use the Pikes Peak as the course for Cat & Mouse mode once PvP comes out! :D

[couger1981 89]

So its between a Camera mode or Rallyschool? Rallyschool it is then :)

[Ruben Correa Alves 28]

Rallyschool for sure. Or at least some sort of training playground.

[gfRally 449]

@justbiglee 

Well your killing me on this one, because I have been lobbying for both.  Selfishly I am going to say the camera modes.  But I need to improve my driving to and I would always have thought it would be good to get some proper training and would help a lot of others too.

However for longevity I think would get a lot more from the cameras.  

BUT here is my question, to you Lee, is it a huge task to allow saving replays and a user controllable camera, that it would take away from some other project?  This is a really bad question and probably a bit ignorant of my knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes.  

I don't want to be 'that guy' that says ohhh you just flip a couple switches and type a few lines of code and its done, maybe 10mins work, sorry.  Its my opinion, I'm just a drop in the ocean, so whatever comes of it, I won't complain, lol.

[MastaVonBlasta 2]

gfRally said:

BUT here is my question, to you Lee, is it a huge task to allow saving replays and a user controllable camera, that it would take away from some other project?  This is a really bad question and probably a bit ignorant of my knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes.  

I also wondered that. If you look at all Codies games from the past generation of consoles they've had the same replay system. Players were asking for a system where the replays can be saved and viewed later and it always appeared to be a big ask. Perhaps it requires a complete re-write of how the replays are captured.

Right now in DiRT Rally there isn't a possbility to view a replay of last 30 seconds of gameplay as it was the case with previous games.

Codies also in all recent games preferred to define the sequence of shots and that sequence of camera views wouldn't change even if you watched a replay of a 20 lap F1 race.

I have no idea how much work is involved, but if you look at what racing games have the option of saving replays you would realise that they are big projects (GT from Polyphony, Forza from Turn 10 and Project CARS spring to my mind).

It may be that in order to put in the free camera system with saves the whole thing needs to be nuked from orbit. (as @ponchobillybob would put it...)

[couger1981 89]

GentleNameMVB said:

gfRally said:

BUT here is my question, to you Lee, is it a huge task to allow saving replays and a user controllable camera, that it would take away from some other project?  This is a really bad question and probably a bit ignorant of my knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes.  

I also wondered that. If you look at all Codies games from the past generation of consoles they've had the same replay system. Players were asking for a system where the replays can be saved and viewed later and it always appeared to be a big ask. Perhaps it requires a complete re-write of how the replays are captured.

Right now in DiRT Rally there isn't a possbility to view a replay of last 30 seconds of gameplay as it was the case with previous games.

Codies also in all recent games preferred to define the sequence of shots and that sequence of camera views wouldn't change even if you watched a replay of a 20 lap F1 race.

I have no idea how much work is involved, but if you look at what racing games have the option of saving replays you would realise that they are big projects (GT from Polyphony, Forza from Turn 10 and Project CARS spring to my mind).

It may be that in order to put in the free camera system with saves the whole thing needs to be nuked from orbit. (as @ponchobillybob would put it...)

Didn't someone use a camera mod in DiRT 3?

[Ginginho 0]

Rally school! having taken 75 mins to complete three stages last night, God knows I need it...

[RodgerDavies 933]

justbiglee said:

Here's a question for you then and it's part of the problem that we face internally.

If you could have a camera mode thing like a few of suggested or say a rally school are that we could use for lots of things which one would you want?  

I don't suppose there's a third choice? ;)

Between those two, I would be unlikely to use either personally, but I can understand the attraction of a rally school as the RBR one helped me a lot. With replays, I would only watch back from in car as the only reason for it to me is to analyse the mistakes I made, but I don't really bother with that either.

[Darhour 3]

VirtuaIceMan said:

And here comes WRC5... reminds me of V-Rally 3 :-p

That said, they have devs from ex-SimBin (GTR) and ex-Eden (V-Rally), but they seem to be not the main physics people of those games, more the creative types: http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments/Ex-SimBin-and-Eden-Games-staff-working-on-WRC-5-new-developer-diary-released

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wViqWA55X5k

Mate, WRC 5 looks already more foo**ing sublime than the "Louwb's game". V-Rally 2 was amusing and it surely amused my childhood then WRC 5 has the same feeling as V-Rally's but in better graphics and better handling. You should notice as well that Milestone depends on scanning rally stages because the car doesn't respect the environmental physics and structure like blind crests, blind ditches, cambers and rugged stages. The handling feels pretty same and flat on all terrains. :/ 

All terrains feel like pancake with gravel, tarmac, snow and mud covering them namely.

[Synck 0]

Am I greedy if I say both Rally school and Camera modes?