Jump to content

DiRTy Gossip Thread

Recommended Posts

Sorry JZStudios, but I believe, with an overflow of silly games, less people are interested in arcade rally games. Things have changed over the years. Look at dirt4, who ever speaks about the arcade mode of that game? With all the news about race/rally teams having their own e-sporter, time now is right for sim racing.

I would say, bring it on.
That does raise an interesting point: I wonder what the ratio is of arcade/realistic players is in DiRT 4? I personally don't know anyone who plays the game in arcade mode. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be honest I find realistic games a lot easier than arcade games. In rFactor I can move the wheel and use the pedals and the car does what you expect it to do, where as with an arcade game the car doesn’t move like your input would suggest, same input, different feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Areyouben said:
To be honest I find realistic games a lot easier than arcade games. In rFactor I can move the wheel and use the pedals and the car does what you expect it to do, where as with an arcade game the car doesn’t move like your input would suggest, same input, different feedback.
I know what you mean: with realistic (or even semi-realistic behavior in certain arcade games), I find it much easier to gauge how hard you can push a car. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Areyouben said:
To be honest I find realistic games a lot easier than arcade games. In rFactor I can move the wheel and use the pedals and the car does what you expect it to do, where as with an arcade game the car doesn’t move like your input would suggest, same input, different feedback.
Hence why arcade games often feels better on a pad than wheel/pedals. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is arcade, and what is sim? The Arcade part of DiRT 4 is much more sim than a Need For Speed or Mario Kart. I think the best way for CM to go forward is to focus on authentic rather than sim or arcade. And simulation can be focused on much more things than just the driving physics. Also the damage, the repairing on stage, the service. co-driver, sounds.

An example of repairing the car in DR and D4. I totally not like the service in DR, because you repaired the car in percentage. You can not repair the bodywork with 1%, so the option of quick-fix and replacement in D4 in combination with the animated service area feels more sim/realistic/authentic. Though I always have enough time to repair in D4.

In the end both DR and D4 had their positives and negatives. So for the new Codemasters game it is important that they have a stronger/interesting base concept, take the positives from the previous games, solve the negatives and than i think it would not really mather if the game is sim or arcade.

I think the hardcore sim-racers should accept that CM will never make a rally game with hardcore sim-physics. Otherwise they would already have made it. Expect they target the level of Assetto Corsa and CM's F1 games, but not iRacing, rFactor, Automobilista. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
there is room for arcade and sim.you just have to make the games right for the right people playing them. dirt 4 had lousy handling and yourstage shouldnt of been used. if the handling was spot on.many would of swallowed yourstage.both together no.thats why it didnt work.

you get out what you put in.you have to have the right ingrediants to make the perfect cake.slightly bodge the icing or miss out the jam people will eat it but they wont want another bite.

as for what codemasters will make.who knows.dirt rally was a great rally sim so i dont get why you would say that ? its the best rally realistic game i played. better than RBR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm quite confident that they'd get the handling sorted in DR 2.0. Dirt 4 was a step up in handling compared to DR in many ways, but it felt rushed. The weight of the cars was better, the suspension felt more alive. But the strange behaviour of the back end grip combined with a general feeling of wrongness from the tyre model made it feel very wrong on many cars. If they base the DR 2.0 handling on the WRX cars from D4 then it'd be quite fine, I believe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dytut said:
I'm quite confident that they'd get the handling sorted in DR 2.0. Dirt 4 was a step up in handling compared to DR in many ways, but it felt rushed. The weight of the cars was better, the suspension felt more alive. But the strange behaviour of the back end grip combined with a general feeling of wrongness from the tyre model made it feel very wrong on many cars. If they base the DR 2.0 handling on the WRX cars from D4 then it'd be quite fine, I believe. 
I don't think it's a unanimous opinion, but I agree with you. I thought D4 was an improvement in most areas (most notably with the rallycross and modern 4WD rally cars), but the rear wheel drive stuff just didn't feel as lively.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I really don't see what's wrong with Your Stage. People complain that it's always the same tiles used over again, but in DiRT Rally there are only two stages per location, which means you're always going to drive on the same roads anyway...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oscar97 said:
I really don't see what's wrong with Your Stage. People complain that it's always the same tiles used over again, but in DiRT Rally there are only two stages per location, which means you're always going to drive on the same roads anyway...
There was not really that much wrong with the system itself, it was more down to two main issues that merged:
1. Far too few tiles. When you saw the exact same tile 5-6 times on a stage, sometimes repeated with just a few seconds between them, they broke immersion. Also, most stages just felt like the same stage all over again. 
2. Many tiles were blandly designed, or too big. Some tiles had great design, but many of them were a bit boring. Some tiles were so easily recognizable and big that you remembered them by heart after just a few runs.

Issue 1 really is the main kicker. With a lot more tiles some blandness would've been accepted, but with the tile repeat it just got... boring. The two long stages per setting in DR feel much more diverse than the "infinite" tile repeats of Your Stage.

A better Your Stage would be many more smaller tiles that combined into more organic roads, combined with bigger "accent" tiles that weren't repeated as often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dytut said:
Oscar97 said:
I really don't see what's wrong with Your Stage. People complain that it's always the same tiles used over again, but in DiRT Rally there are only two stages per location, which means you're always going to drive on the same roads anyway...
There was not really that much wrong with the system itself, it was more down to two main issues that merged:
1. Far too few tiles. When you saw the exact same tile 5-6 times on a stage, sometimes repeated with just a few seconds between them, they broke immersion. Also, most stages just felt like the same stage all over again. 
2. Many tiles were blandly designed, or too big. Some tiles had great design, but many of them were a bit boring. Some tiles were so easily recognizable and big that you remembered them by heart after just a few runs.

Issue 1 really is the main kicker. With a lot more tiles some blandness would've been accepted, but with the tile repeat it just got... boring. The two long stages per setting in DR feel much more diverse than the "infinite" tile repeats of Your Stage.

A better Your Stage would be many more smaller tiles that combined into more organic roads, combined with bigger "accent" tiles that weren't repeated as often.
The 2 issues you note above are really my issue with Your Stage. In theory, the technology is great. But, the execution was, and still is, lacking. I've created some cool stages on Your Stage that I really enjoy, but overall, I was left unimpressed. There's the little town you drive through in Spain, and I LOVE hitting that part and going through the twisting roads and nailing the hairpin and 90* turns through there. There are some parts of Your Stage that were created beautifully. In Spain, there's a sequence that probably 85% of the time is right 5, to left 4 tightens to 3, hairpin right. While I enjoy that sequence, I can almost name that sequence off the top of my head because that is how it appears most of the time. When I did a weekly event last week in Michigan, I saw the same left 4 with the green billboard on the inside in almost every stage. That is where the system is lacking. There are great parts, but there are too few great parts without enough in between to make them enjoyable. I've seen this posted elsewhere here that in Dirt Rally, you really felt like you drove a part of the country and ended up somewhere else. In Dirt 4, I feel like I end up at the same place I started and don't get the same sense of distance and unique geography from DR. I know Dirt 4 is not supposed to be DR, but I've mentioned elsewhere, that's how some of the marketing was approached so I started the game with that anticipation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
your stage in theory is amazing. the execution of the early version for dirt 4 was not. too many similar repeating tiles. no real hairpins.became bland repeating same corner after corner.repetitive.

also one of the big selling points of rally is the actual stages. just like f1 monaco or the like.people want to rally real world locations.its a massive selling point. yourstage should be a cherry / addition / option. not the whole cake. regardless of how impressive your stage becomes id rather rally race real world locations done well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have to be honest, I came in with the opinion that I rather take Your Stage with the odd repeating tile once in a while over a scarce few stages that DR had. But it quickly became apparent that even though the stages never are the same, every stage still felt like the same pretty much each time. Wales in particular.

No landmarks, no real hairpins, no soul, just bland. 

If we get a new game I hope they improved Your Stage immensely. If not, I hope we get hand crafted again. Hopefully with a DLC plan to expand on it further. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bogani said:
I have to be honest, I came in with the opinion that I rather take Your Stage with the odd repeating tile once in a while over a scarce few stages that DR had. But it quickly became apparent that even though the stages never are the same, every stage still felt like the same pretty much each time. Wales in particular.

No landmarks, no real hairpins, no soul, just bland. 

If we get a new game I hope they improved Your Stage immensely. If not, I hope we get hand crafted again. Hopefully with a DLC plan to expand on it further. 
Best of both worlds would be Your Stage 2.0 with 10x the tiles of D4 alongside two to four hand-crafted stages for each location.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The idea of Dirt4 was not bad, but not worked out. And on top of that CM let us down big way, no improvements (on yourstage), only very few bug fixing, no dlc, no VR implemented and so on. Because of that Dirt4 is big a failure which I removed a long time ago. Besides that the behaviour of CM means it was the last game I buy on forehand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry JZStudios, but I believe, with an overflow of silly games, less people are interested in arcade rally games. Things have changed over the years. Look at dirt4, who ever speaks about the arcade mode of that game? With all the news about race/rally teams having their own e-sporter, time now is right for sim racing.

I would say, bring it on.
I HIGHLY disagree. Forza Horizon is a damn good selling game, and it is not a sim. Hate to tell you this, but Assetto Corsa, rFactor, iRacing, Dirt Rally,  Project Cars, they don't hold a candle to the sales of arcade games. Let's also not forget the massive wave of people that were on the forums complaining about how Dirt Rally was too hard once it hit consoles. There's also the rather large lack of content in any of those games, only Project Cars 2 seems to have a decent amount of content.
Even Driveclub did well. A lot of people got pretty excited about the remaster of Burnout Paradise, The Crew sold well (Though I don't know why) even though it's got terrible physics. Need For Speed still sells well. The issue is that as of late Forza Horizon has been the only worthwhile arcade racer, aside from maybe some F-Zeros or something. Sims get real boring super quick, especially the PC sims.

Bringing up the arcade mode in Dirt 4 is honestly kind of dumb. How many people do you know that still play it at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So on August 7th Phil Mills said the game would be announced in about 6 weeks. That is around 18 september So I just thinking where it could be announced and what sounds logical.

- WRC Turkey ends on 16th of september. With a possible WRC license it could make sense. But Turkey imo is not really a location where you would announce something. 
- The WRX round of Latvia is also on 16 of september. Which could be a possibility.
- The WRX round of America is two weeks later in the weekend of 30 september. Although that is almost 8 weeks later than the post, I could imagine they announce something, and at the American round more promotion can be done.
- Tokyo game show is from 20-23 september. Though I think CM's focus would be on the American and European market.
- Rally Isle of Man is also at 15th of september. 



Mostly i am suprised they will announce something that quick after the release of F1 2018. But yeah, we will see. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JZStudios said:
Sorry JZStudios, but I believe, with an overflow of silly games, less people are interested in arcade rally games. Things have changed over the years. Look at dirt4, who ever speaks about the arcade mode of that game? With all the news about race/rally teams having their own e-sporter, time now is right for sim racing.

I would say, bring it on.
I HIGHLY disagree. Forza Horizon is a damn good selling game, and it is not a sim. Hate to tell you this, but Assetto Corsa, rFactor, iRacing, Dirt Rally,  Project Cars, they don't hold a candle to the sales of arcade games. Let's also not forget the massive wave of people that were on the forums complaining about how Dirt Rally was too hard once it hit consoles. There's also the rather large lack of content in any of those games, only Project Cars 2 seems to have a decent amount of content.
Even Driveclub did well. A lot of people got pretty excited about the remaster of Burnout Paradise, The Crew sold well (Though I don't know why) even though it's got terrible physics. Need For Speed still sells well. The issue is that as of late Forza Horizon has been the only worthwhile arcade racer, aside from maybe some F-Zeros or something. Sims get real boring super quick, especially the PC sims.

Bringing up the arcade mode in Dirt 4 is honestly kind of dumb. How many people do you know that still play it at all?
Thanks for calling me dumb. An effective way to end any discussion ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
D4 ‘Your Stage’ really comes alive when mixing up the times of day and weather conditions. Arrange a Rally where all the stages head directly into the rising or setting sun.  Or create a Rally where the weather gets progressively worse as the event transpires. And then try it with every car possible. The options are nearly endless. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JorritVD said:
So on August 7th Phil Mills said the game would be announced in about 6 weeks. That is around 18 september So I just thinking where it could be announced and what sounds logical.

- WRC Turkey ends on 16th of september. With a possible WRC license it could make sense. But Turkey imo is not really a location where you would announce something. 
- The WRX round of Latvia is also on 16 of september. Which could be a possibility.
- The WRX round of America is two weeks later in the weekend of 30 september. Although that is almost 8 weeks later than the post, I could imagine they announce something, and at the American round more promotion can be done.
- Tokyo game show is from 20-23 september. Though I think CM's focus would be on the American and European market.
- Rally Isle of Man is also at 15th of september. 



Mostly i am suprised they will announce something that quick after the release of F1 2018. But yeah, we will see. 

You forgot that 15th September is my birthday and they could be announcing it then as a present to me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your Stage was a lie. It never came. What we were given were few tiles, Codies described Your Stage as something very different, but it was just along "realistic physics" PR lines, so well. Lesson learned.

This is what ONE guy did https://holymooses.com/PRL/
His tech allows importing GPS data (either downloading it from free sources, or driving road yourself and recording data that way). It supports surface changes, junctions, "cliffs"  (Monte Carlo stuff) and much more. One guy did that. I get that it is just generating geometry and applying textures and surface type, it also has to work within Dirt engine, but once again- ONE GUY. BTW generating one stage takes (depending on parameters) minutes.

One
guy.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One guy, with a lot of time on his hands and a 4grand pc, churning out really basic roads.  I’d say Codies put more detail into one tile than this dude has in a whole stage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yup, one guy with enough time to do his in his spare time. If only he got fraction of resources that full time employees on Codies side got.

As for details- if only he got time and motivation to put more details on any of those tracks. But he is focused on adding and refining features of autogen, not putting more details- that is separate task, it can even can be done by hand for each stage, track/ stage modes done for racing sims show that modding community can do it. Professionals should be even more capable, as we can see on Dirt stages for example.

EDIT: BTW I am not even sure why we discuss details, but then I am not even sure if discussing autogen engine belongs to Dirt topics, because there is no autogen in Dirt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×