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DiRTy Gossip Thread

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1 hour ago, teknoid85 said:

wrc class2018  (380bhp) :classic_love:❤️        even with unofficial liveries.......

It'll never happen, but this would be beyond awesome! 

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2 hours ago, RodgerDavies said:

Do you mean you'd change your preorder from deluxe to standard?

I don't think it's necessarily wanting or preferring the old stages, just would rather have more of the old ones than fewer of the new ones. My dream would be what was mentioned elsewhere, with the old plus the new or the original '2' joined together and a new one to join them (especially for Monte Carlo), but I just don't think it will happen.

I'd also really like to try some of the old stages with the new cars and physics; especially Finland.

For me, it's just the most kilometres we can get TBH.

Don't get me wrong, I want as many kilometres as possible (who wouldn't?) but paying for rehashed, recycled content is what gets my hackles up. Yes I know there are probably some improvements that would come along with the old stages (mainly surface degradation) but I'd still feel a bit ripped off because I know that the work put into it vs. new content is so much less. It just makes me feel like they'd be charging me twice for the same stuff.

If I were running the project, what I'd do is put only new content in the DLCs (whether that's new countries/locations or new stages in existing countries) and make a few free updates that include the original stages - or at least, free/highly reduced for DR1 owners.

Again, I'm just baffled that people are eager to bust out their wallets for existing stuff. Obviously, like, buy what you want I guess, but it just feels a little sour to me.

edit: Originally when I thought about the old stages in DR2.0, I was kind of excited because I thought they would have the granular time of day and weather system of Dirt 4. However, gameplay footage shown recently indicates that they've gone back to the bespoke but very limited choices of time of day/weather combinations. In other words, the added value I would have gotten from the Dirt 4 time of day/weather system isn't even there.

Edited by ShodanCat
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@ShodanCat

 

Fair play - if it’s £15 or so to add 60-80km of DR1 stages with updated models, textures, lighting, weather, AI, surface degradation and I can play them with the new physics (and get some upgraded Group B cars with it too) then I’m game, but hey, value is in the eye of the beholder; I understand it’s not for everyone.

 

If that is the case, are you happy they gave you the choice rather than including the ‘old’ locations in the base game and selling the new ones in DLC?

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I mean, I guess so, but that's kind of a strange question. I'd be OK if there is at least one new location per DLC. That's worth it to me. If season 1 is all DR1 locations, then there's no way I'm paying for that.

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I was thinking about the DLC and 'revived' (nice description imo) DR1 content. About connecting the two long stages from a DR1 location to create one very long stage. That wouldn't be so difficult for the two long Monte Carlo stages as the finish of one is the start of the other (not sure if that's the case for the ones for example in Wales or Germany though).

Then I realised that it's impossible due to the limitations as the length of that very long stage would be just over 20 km. Maybe add the short stage which would be the continuation of the long stage. That would make it about 15 to 16 km for Monte for example.

Now if that is possible, I would certainly not mind and be quite happy. What I described above could be the first long stage of the Monte Carlo DLC location. All they have to do then is add a completely new long stage to that and there you go, one location finished and two more to go.

I know that it still takes a lot of work to revive them to DR2.0 standards but it might perhaps save them a bit of time and resources.

Any thoughts on that?

Edited by SimVansevenant

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Just noticed the forums are back up, this is gonna get some time getting used to... 🙂 

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Whilst I wouldn't mind just the old stages coming back, If Wales returned it'd be nice to see Gartheiniog and Myherin. Yummy

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All this talk about stages makes me really hope that maybe there is a small team inside Codies that would be developing the stage generation system to use in a future rally game, and for it to actually work much better than it did in Dirt 4. It wasn't terrible, but it just lacked in quality...

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Quality is the issue though. The way it was implemented, whilst well done from a technical standpoint, it's a few years away from being good enough I think.

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When I think that so many in here would want the old tracks back, it would have been easier for Codies to improve on the original Dirt and launch an expansion with additional physics improvements. 

 

As said , they can bring back the old 'updated' stages but I wouldn't pay a lot extra for that. If the stages are brand new than it changes things. Reason I cancelled my preorder. I will get DR2 but I first want to see all DLC's content. If there are no new rallies and thé second Season is rallycross, I'll pick up DLC rally for a heavy reduced price a couple of months later. However, if there will be a lot of rally content which is fresh, I'll more likely pick it up sooner. Sorry DS21, you'll have to wait. For now the game is really shallow on rally content which was one of the big critics of DR1 and there is zero improvement on that in the base game. 

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I paid like £22 for Dirt Rally 1 when it came out in early access and got 200+ hours out of it. I'm happy to pay some more now to get revised and updated stages to suit DR2.0 on top of the final game. It won't be just a case of porting the assets over. I feel like this is going to be the fullest, most content rich rally game over time, it's already got some great stuff in it with much improved physics (can confirm, am a tester)

Edited by SirPhilMcKraken
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I think people are simplifying a lot here...

In Circuit Sim Racing nobody complains about "Oh no, not the Nürburgring!  That was already in the last 3 games. You are charging us for existing content again!!! We want some fresh new locations!!!!!"

Having some DR1 stages is totally fine as DLC, even for money. Especially considering the alternative: being already in the game. Then even more people would complain about recycling. This way, everyone has the option just NOT to buy the DLCs, if they don't think they receive an equal value in game for their money.

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I guess we'll just have to see how it all shakes out. We still have no idea what will be in the first DLC. In my humble opinion, if it's all DR1 content, you can expect mixed reviews on Steam and the #1 reason for the negative ones will be the selling of rehashed content. But what do I know, I'm just a random internet user.

Edited by ShodanCat

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1 hour ago, Rallystu2 said:

Slightly off-topic but, You can follow Jon's progress at rally Galway on https://m.facebook.com/onthepacenote

 

Link found by @RodgerDavies

I think they’re doing stage end interviews aren’t they? Think EWRC results should also be giving updates throughout the day

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/55170-galway-international-rally-2019/

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For me de problem are how they plan the DLCs. Fair enough they are a business and they want as much money as they can get from people playing their games, but selling a game with little content and teasing with extra content that they could include in the base game feels like cheating.

I don't like the DLC stuff but if you are going to do it add value to the client, don't just steal money. There are games like Frostpunk were they support the game for a year or more with free DLCs, they truly support their game. For me that's saying, thanks customer, we want you with us. The other way around is more like saying, we want your money.

At the end of the day they should want as many people as possible playing their game, so people can find someone when you join an online rally. And from there in a year's time offer an expansion, 6 more rallies or whatever but not 3 months later.

And of course always telling the customer what they are going to get in advance, as if I'm paying money I know what I'm going to get.

Edited by CodingRacer
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It's a bit of a double edged sword for Codemasters though, isn't it? There were calls for ongoing support with DiRT Rally, many (including myself) were expecting a long term support plan for DiRT 4 but almost the exact opposite happened which attracted the ire of many. Now they are delivering on what many have asked for and they are being accused of cheating customers? 

If the base game was being launched with less content than previous titles I'd be more annoyed and say you have a point, but DR2.0 is going to have as many rally locations and more new rallycross tracks than either DR1 or D4, so it's not like the base game is being cut short...

...the only thing that I think could be argued is being "held back" are the Group B RWD cars. If the class reappears with an expanded roster I think that will be justified though. 

I'd love to see months, or even years, of ongoing free DLC updates but, if I am being brutally honest, I don't think CM can fund that sort of thing.

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Thing is you have to start development of DLC before the game has even come out, otherwise it will be a long way behind the release of the game before it is released.

 

Also eWRC are posting results, Jon is through stage 1

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33 minutes ago, CodingRacer said:

For me de problem are how they plan the DLCs. Fair enough they are a business and they want as much money as they can get from people playing their games, but selling a game with little content and teasing with extra content that they could include in the base game feels like cheating.

I don't like the DLC stuff but if you are going to do it add value to the client, don't just steal money. There are games like Frostpunk were they support the game for a year or more with free DLCs, they truly support their game. For me that's saying, thanks customer, we want you with us. The other way around is more like saying, we want your money.

At the end of the day they should want as many people as possible playing their game, so people can find someone when you join an online rally. And from there in a year's time offer an expansion, 6 more rallies or whatever but not 3 months later.

And of course always telling the customer what they are going to get in advance, as if I'm paying money I know what I'm going to get.

Comparing it to Frostpunk isn't really fair, is it? The only similarity between the two games is the fact that they are games. Sure, the content in DR2.0 isn't as extensive as in other rally titles but the quality is way better than those other titles. ( #QualityOverQuantity ) Saying that they could/should include the DLC content as part of the base game means that the game would only be released many months from now. The content is not ready for release yet. At least there are no lootboxes in DR2.0 with spare parts for your car.

I don't know why you said they are stealing money because that would imply that they are taking money without people's consent. You yourself have the option of buying the DLC which is knowingly giving your money for extra content. If you don't want to do that, you don't have to and that is your choice. It's really simple.

Now, the 6 new locations and 10 (?) new cars won't be put in over the next year. It's going to be two seasons, each season being 3 months.

2 x 3 = 6, right? Or has the duration of a year been halved recently? 

Edited by SimVansevenant
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For me, just the prospect of being able to do a 9 round championship within the next couple of months is worth it. The thing most complained about in DR1 is being resolved to an extent. We are getting more content. There's a guaranteed live service in place for at least 6months. 

This is excellent progress in my eyes. Codemasters are giving us what they want within the parameters that they are allowed to. This is ultimately governed by profit.

Codemasters is not a charity.

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@CodingRacerlol, "stealing" money? None of it you're forced to pay. If you don't want DR1 stages in DR2 then don't buy them - they've made that completely optional.

 

I agree that I'd want them to support the game over time, but this is their first toe in the water with offering proper post-live support, so they've initially committed to 6 months with the promise of more to come if people are interested. Assetto Corsa had no support/DLC plans when it hit v1.0 but ended up receiving packs and patches for the next 3 or 4 years.

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The choice is stark, Clear and ultimately fair.... support the game, make it profitable and the future is bright..... don’t support the game, it flops and there is no future for rally games!

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Some are complaining that the base content is lackluster when it comes to content. --> CM decide to support the game with DLC. --> Those people complain again about having to pay for DLC and don't buy it. --> CM see the numbers and realise that creating DLC is not profitable enough so they stop after the first two seasons --> Those people then again complain that they want more content.

I mean, it's an endless loop where in the end nobody gets what they want. We don't get the content and they don't receive the profit.

Would you be willing to do extra work, having to invest in that extra work yourself and eventually lose money in the process? Don't be daft.

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