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Welsh WRC stages don't actually have that many hairpins relatively speaking, I don't think (start of Gartheinog aside!) - the ones there are are spectacular and Dirt 4 is definitely lacking varied tiles for them, but I always thought the inner forest complexes were twistier than reality (they tend to be roads made for moving log trucks along, so as straight as possible but intersecting (hence the hairpins and junctions!)).
The rally gb stages maybe not so frequent, but definitely on those used in national events. Another thing I just thought of is logging. There are lots of log piles lining Welsh stages

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I just thinks Wales a bit too twisty and bumpy for my taste. It's also extremely repetitive as you always get the same tile for entering the forest and the same tile for exiting the forest. Add the god awful moore sections with zero flow and very bad notes. It's just very frustrating.

I think the open field sections in Michigan are my favourite. It's fast, narrow and relatively flat.

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bogani said:
I just thinks Wales a bit too twisty and bumpy for my taste. It's also extremely repetitive as you always get the same tile for entering the forest and the same tile for exiting the forest. Add the god awful moore sections with zero flow and very bad notes. It's just very frustrating.

I think the open field sections in Michigan are my favourite. It's fast, narrow and relatively flat.
Any real life moors sections I’ve done(which isn’t many to be honest, it’s normally all forests) are very twisty. It’s kind of like a rollercoaster. The best way of describing it would probably be like a mini Finland. Lots of flowing corners over crests. Lots of camber, and big ditches that suck you in. Just obviously the speed isn’t there so there aren’t really jumps!

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I agree about the lack of drops. It's one of my biggest gripes with Spain. No seaside drops on one side kinda ruin the magic of Spain based rallies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bavx20pgoY


EDIT: whoops I might have misread what you wrote but my point still stands.

That's fair point, but current Rally Catalunya, the stages these tiles are based on, are up in the hills, there are no coastal sections.


Welsh WRC stages don't actually have that many hairpins relatively speaking, I don't think (start of Gartheinog aside!) - the ones there are are spectacular and Dirt 4 is definitely lacking varied tiles for them, but I always thought the inner forest complexes were twistier than reality (they tend to be roads made for moving log trucks along, so as straight as possible but intersecting (hence the hairpins and junctions!)).
The rally gb stages maybe not so frequent, but definitely on those used in national events. Another thing I just thought of is logging. There are lots of log piles lining Welsh stages

100% - not seen any club stages around the Hafren complex it's based on though - do they have some twistier configs?

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gfRally said:
So this leaves tech and effects.  One thing that always comes to the top of my mind watching ANY game is particle effects, very few have accomplished anything really convincing in 3D.  I would really like to see someone push the envelope in looks (and performance).  Since we are talking about rally games, dirt, gravel, and smoke all come to mind.  I would really like to see rooster tails of dirt when there is a loose hairpin.  I would like to see smoke and dust that is not just 'twirling' sprites or various transparencies.  Gravel should travel at difference distances depending on speed.   As of right now, this is somewhat there, but I'm not sure anyone has thought outside the box, so to say and pushed in a different direction.  If you look at any title over the past 15-20 years they have all used the same technique, its only increased density as hardware has allowed.  Obviously I am talking out my bum hole about any type of programming.  
I just think there are features than can set apart from the crowd.  

The problem with effects is that we have 16.6(666666~)ms per frame and a very small amount of that is used on effects. It does limit what we can achieve effects-wise :disappointed:  Maybe in the future we'll be able to really push the limits, who knows :)

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I agree about the lack of drops. It's one of my biggest gripes with Spain. No seaside drops on one side kinda ruin the magic of Spain based rallies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bavx20pgoY


EDIT: whoops I might have misread what you wrote but my point still stands.

That's fair point, but current Rally Catalunya, the stages these tiles are based on, are up in the hills, there are no coastal sections.


Welsh WRC stages don't actually have that many hairpins relatively speaking, I don't think (start of Gartheinog aside!) - the ones there are are spectacular and Dirt 4 is definitely lacking varied tiles for them, but I always thought the inner forest complexes were twistier than reality (they tend to be roads made for moving log trucks along, so as straight as possible but intersecting (hence the hairpins and junctions!)).
The rally gb stages maybe not so frequent, but definitely on those used in national events. Another thing I just thought of is logging. There are lots of log piles lining Welsh stages

100% - not seen any club stages around the Hafren complex it's based on though - do they have some twistier configs?
I haven’t done too many rallies around the Hafren forests. I’ve mainly done events around the brecons and north wales. The only stages I’ve done in Hafren forest is Hafren itself on Rally gb 2 years ago as far as I know!

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bogani said:
I just thinks Wales a bit too twisty and bumpy for my taste. It's also extremely repetitive as you always get the same tile for entering the forest and the same tile for exiting the forest. Add the god awful moore sections with zero flow and very bad notes. It's just very frustrating.

I think the open field sections in Michigan are my favourite. It's fast, narrow and relatively flat.
Michigan is like just put foot to floor and drive on auto pilot :D

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dgeesi0 said:
i hope to god nothing in the next game is based on wales in dirt 4. wales in dirt rally was amazing. in dirt 4 bland.

played some dirt 4 yesterday and was actually having fun in the lancia and australia.its not a bad game its just not as good as dirt rally.
But you also need to think about the Market. There are people who want D4 because of the D2 and D3. So that continues the series for them. Then there is the other market who loves DR because the true realism and down in dirty rally's. Some of the other fans are scared of DR because of how hard it is. I personally like D4 and DR because it gives me a change of scenery. Switching between the two is fun.

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dgeesi0 said:
bogani said:
I just thinks Wales a bit too twisty and bumpy for my taste. It's also extremely repetitive as you always get the same tile for entering the forest and the same tile for exiting the forest. Add the god awful moore sections with zero flow and very bad notes. It's just very frustrating.

I think the open field sections in Michigan are my favourite. It's fast, narrow and relatively flat.
Michigan is like just put foot to floor and drive on auto pilot :D
That is how some of the Rally's are over here. I like Michigan because how fast you can drive your car. It falls one who can drive the fastest without flying off the road.

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urgaffel said:
gfRally said:
So this leaves tech and effects.  One thing that always comes to the top of my mind watching ANY game is particle effects, very few have accomplished anything really convincing in 3D.  I would really like to see someone push the envelope in looks (and performance).  Since we are talking about rally games, dirt, gravel, and smoke all come to mind.  I would really like to see rooster tails of dirt when there is a loose hairpin.  I would like to see smoke and dust that is not just 'twirling' sprites or various transparencies.  Gravel should travel at difference distances depending on speed.   As of right now, this is somewhat there, but I'm not sure anyone has thought outside the box, so to say and pushed in a different direction.  If you look at any title over the past 15-20 years they have all used the same technique, its only increased density as hardware has allowed.  Obviously I am talking out my bum hole about any type of programming.  
I just think there are features than can set apart from the crowd.  

The problem with effects is that we have 16.6(666666~)ms per frame and a very small amount of that is used on effects. It does limit what we can achieve effects-wise :disappointed:  Maybe in the future we'll be able to really push the limits, who knows :)
I was wondering if you would chime in.  Didn't know it was broke down per frame like that (ref. talking out my..), the little I know about programming, this makes sense on cpu cycles. 

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Presumably you eat into a massive chunk of these available resources as soon as you try to head toward implementing VR too, With Dirt4's dynamically generated tracks likely being even more difficult to optimize due to so many variables. Or is it actually solely the extra load generated by having to render the scene twice per frame that creates the performance gap?(in Dirt Rally VR)

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urgaffel said:
gfRally said:
So this leaves tech and effects.  One thing that always comes to the top of my mind watching ANY game is particle effects, very few have accomplished anything really convincing in 3D.  I would really like to see someone push the envelope in looks (and performance).  Since we are talking about rally games, dirt, gravel, and smoke all come to mind.  I would really like to see rooster tails of dirt when there is a loose hairpin.  I would like to see smoke and dust that is not just 'twirling' sprites or various transparencies.  Gravel should travel at difference distances depending on speed.   As of right now, this is somewhat there, but I'm not sure anyone has thought outside the box, so to say and pushed in a different direction.  If you look at any title over the past 15-20 years they have all used the same technique, its only increased density as hardware has allowed.  Obviously I am talking out my bum hole about any type of programming.  
I just think there are features than can set apart from the crowd.  

The problem with effects is that we have 16.6(666666~)ms per frame and a very small amount of that is used on effects. It does limit what we can achieve effects-wise :disappointed:  Maybe in the future we'll be able to really push the limits, who knows :)
Hey, I know a really easy fix for that, download more ram and just half your framerate.

In other news, Burnout Paradise is getting remastered with a PC release date being.... some time.
Finally, after ten years I can play on big surf island.
Also, I want the next game to get smashy smashy like the old dirt titles.

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@gfRally
"I was wondering if you would chime in.  Didn't know it was broke down per frame like that (ref. talking out my..), the little I know about programming, this makes sense on cpu cycles."

I can't help it, I see talk about effects, I have to respond :)


@nbates66

Yeah, VR is whole other headache; render everything twice, ideally at 120 fps. :D

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er185 said:
Dakar 18 in-game screenshots



Source: https://www.facebook.com/dakarthegame/
It looks quite nice, especially considering it's an open world game... it seems like there will be stages with no clear road drawn which is very good. Then again, these probably are taken from the game engine so the graphics won't be like this, but the stage design seems quite good.

On other news, the awaited Assetto Corsa announcement has nothing to do with offroad https://www.assettocorsa.net/competizione/ so I stop here the offtopic

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JZStudios said:

In other news, Burnout Paradise is getting remastered with a PC release date being.... some time.
I actually absolutely couldn't stand that game, I got it through some humble bundle in 2013 and put no more than 46 minutes into it, it did however make me seek out my CMR2004 disk and play through that again, as well as seek out Newer Dirt Titles and Steering wheel controllers.
Strange thing that I hated it so much though, since i'm sure I put an absolute tonn of hours into Trackmania Nations back in the day...

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nbates66 said:
JZStudios said:

In other news, Burnout Paradise is getting remastered with a PC release date being.... some time.
I actually absolutely couldn't stand that game, I got it through some humble bundle in 2013 and put no more than 46 minutes into it, it did however make me seek out my CMR2004 disk and play through that again, as well as seek out Newer Dirt Titles and Steering wheel controllers.
Strange thing that I hated it so much though, since i'm sure I put an absolute tonn of hours into Trackmania Nations back in the day...
Why did you hate it? I started looking at the announcement and a lot of people were talking about how mediocre it would be to release it now, but there's still nothing else on the market that comes close to it.

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carpa said:
On other news, the awaited Assetto Corsa announcement has nothing to do with offroad https://www.assettocorsa.net/competizione/ so I stop here the offtopic
Lol, they switched to UE4, so they could have some poor rain effects and more than one light source. Wonder how the physics will be since they're probably not using their goofy setup.

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Am so excited about the AC game personally - I've never put more hours into a game than GTR2 and this feels like a spiritual successor at last.

Might just be a sign of me getting old, but screenshots of pretty much and game look amazing to me these days. I'll probably look back at that Dakar game in a few years and think it looks horrible, but those screens look ace to me. 

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Areyouben said:
I feel kinda sad for the reassembled Simbin team in the UK that's been working on GTR3 with the Unreal engine as well.
Yeah, I was half-expecting GTR 3 to be the Blancpain game. I enjoy R3E's driving (and sound of course) much more than AC's, but I'm in for whoever is going to make a Blancpain game—especially with a career mode and driving school.

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JZStudios said:
nbates66 said:
JZStudios said:

In other news, Burnout Paradise is getting remastered with a PC release date being.... some time.
I actually absolutely couldn't stand that game, I got it through some humble bundle in 2013 and put no more than 46 minutes into it, it did however make me seek out my CMR2004 disk and play through that again, as well as seek out Newer Dirt Titles and Steering wheel controllers.
Strange thing that I hated it so much though, since i'm sure I put an absolute tonn of hours into Trackmania Nations back in the day...
Why did you hate it? I started looking at the announcement and a lot of people were talking about how mediocre it would be to release it now, but there's still nothing else on the market that comes close to it.
I love Burnout Paradise so much. I love how it feels like the ultimate realization of what I imagined playing with Hotwheels cars as a kid, with the city being designed for the express purpose of messing around with cars. The cars aren't real but they do all of the Cool Car Stuff™ that a kid would think of - they shift gears forever with no top gear just because shifting sounds cool, they all backfire because it looks cool, and they crash gratuitously because it looks good in slow motion.

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