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That shouldn’t necessarily form a problem I think. As long as they keep their release windows apart they could excist under the same publisher, even if one is (partly owned) by them. If I’m right Turn10 is owned by Microsoft, whereas Playground is a bit more independent. But they both have games released by MS.

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My input on the current topic: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

More rally games is always good. I wasn't tremendously impressed with Dirt 4 so I'll try not to get excited until after the games are released this time round (sorry, marketing folks!).

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Areyouben said:
That shouldn’t necessarily form a problem I think. As long as they keep their release windows apart they could excist under the same publisher, even if one is (partly owned) by them. If I’m right Turn10 is owned by Microsoft, whereas Playground is a bit more independent. But they both have games released by MS.
I'm sure it wouldn't stop them if that's what they wanted to do. But why the hell would you buy 25% of a racing studio to then go and outsource production to another ? Makes no sense. It's the kind of thing you might do if you had a short deadline that you couldn't keep. But Kylotonn already have a signifincant proportion of the assets. WRC 7 to WRC 8 is nowhere near the step creating WRC5 from scratch was. That's a tough job for anyone given the timescales.

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Maybe Codemasters used DiRT to publish two concepts of rally gaming, and decide which one use for WRC title.
I like both and I think apart from RBR which is totally different era are the best Rally games actually, with no competition close to them
Something more to add : I searched quickly on internet and i saw that WRC license historitically are not owned by same company for over 3-4 years (see in wikipedia) and Big ben has released already 4 WRC games (3 made by kylotonn and  1 by Milestone) + the weird decision of CM to release the Dirt 4 while Dirt rally was that period pretty alive and not too old and people were waiting any new content like tracks - cars , online rally mode maybe instead of a new rally game that looked condemned to fail with these rushed technology of generated tracks , looks hard that the  experienced CM team  believed that this will like to people.. The same time that new generation of consoles did not get any Grid game and they are out since 2013..
So my thought is that they easy killed Dirt rally whicih was a game for sim lovers (so it has a specific target group) and then thought to release a simcade like game the Dirt 4 (with clearly bigger target group) with rushed generated tracks so not to spend much effort and sources , getting some money on release , then totally abandon it because are working since many months on a new WRC game?
I speak about a row and extreme money grab strategy (and remmeber what happened in the case of Grid 2 and Grid Autosport came just a year later after communities outcry about Grid 2)
MoneyGrabMasters could  be called then maybe! ahaha :p :#
Meh, I don't think Codies had such long-term plans when DiRT Rally came out (which is already three years ago) and not even when DiRT 4 came out. The end product might be rushed but I don't think they used it as an experiment to see what an hypotetical WRC game should have been like. And I don't think they deliberately killed DiRT 4 hoping to get the licence. We're still talking about a gaming company whose only interest is to make moneys, it's not a secret lobby out of Dan Brown's books :D

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dirt3joe said:
I'm sure it wouldn't stop them if that's what they wanted to do. But why the hell would you buy 25% of a racing studio to then go and outsource production to another ? Makes no sense. It's the kind of thing you might do if you had a short deadline that you couldn't keep. But Kylotonn already have a signifincant proportion of the assets. WRC 7 to WRC 8 is nowhere near the step creating WRC5 from scratch was. That's a tough job for anyone given the timescales.

Yeah I agree. Only thing is, I can't really see a single dev create both games. I'm sure Kylotonn can do WRC and V-Rally with the 120 people strong team they have, but all within the same year? V-Rally comes September, so when should WRC release? 2019? Are they skipping a year? Questions questions.

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Hmm, a year ago this V Rally news would have been excellent, but WRC7 was actually an excellent step and it would have had a bright future if WRC8 continued on the same trajectory.

Surprised they have taken the positivity around their last release and thought "you know what, let's go wide rather than deep, buggies and stadium trucks worked so well for Dirt 4" - can't say I'm very optimistic about VR4.

Here's hoping Codemasters do have a proper shot at the licence as it would semi-excuse (explain at least) the very poor post-live support for D4 and it can follow on from DiRT Rally.

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I don’t think we will here any dirt news for a little while yet. They are currently focused on pushing onrush marketing, so probably wouldn’t want to take any attention away from that. Plus they’re also pushing dirt e sports at the moment. Onrush comes out early June I think, but that’s quite a wait as it would probably mean not announcing dirt until July, which is quite a long way away. Also, depends how long it’s been in development. Dirt 4 came out in June last year, which doesn’t leave much time. They’ve obviously had some of the team working on leagues and e sports.

I may be wrong, but I feel we will be waiting until the summer before we hear some news. But still, CHOO CHOO HYPETRAIN IS LEAVING THE STATION

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wrc 7 is a decent game some things are up there with dirt rally some are not. its a solid 8/10. dirt rally id say 9/10. some things so simple are bad in it though and frustrating. it does bug me when big studios make big titles and miss such basics. bubbles me :#

most rally racing games dont cater for car set ups. only title that seems to do this well recently is f1 games. why the rally games dont follow suit really destroys my mind thinking about it. for eg la la is top of tables. all you do is click that person name and copy set up done ! this needs to happen in the rally games or make the default set ups good from the start . if you dont understand how to set up the cars you are instantly at a disadvantage. in recent dirt games there hasnt been any real showing of how to do this and working in practice ! make it so people have a fair balance and have the same set ups.then it becomes purely about driving rallying. skill. not having a better set up.

gui menu system. often a over thought. one of my pet hates in games is a bad menu system to navigate.the process of playing or accessing anything should be the least steps possible. especially with wheel settings. think of how many times you get a new game and sit there infuriated trying to set controls.this is basics and very important.

im hoping the next few big titles start to nail some of these basics that big studios keep missing.maybe making the perfect game or as close as possible

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dgeesi0 said:
wrc 7 is a decent game some things are up there with dirt rally some are not. its a solid 8/10. dirt rally id say 9/10. some things so simple are bad in it though and frustrating. it does bug me when big studios make big titles and miss such basics. bubbles me :#

most rally racing games dont cater for car set ups. only title that seems to do this well recently is f1 games. why the rally games dont follow suit really destroys my mind thinking about it. for eg la la is top of tables. all you do is click that person name and copy set up done ! this needs to happen in the rally games or make the default set ups good from the start . if you dont understand how to set up the cars you are instantly at a disadvantage. in recent dirt games there hasnt been any real showing of how to do this and working in practice ! make it so people have a fair balance and have the same set ups.then it becomes purely about driving rallying. skill. not having a better set up.

gui menu system. often a over thought. one of my pet hates in games is a bad menu system to navigate.the process of playing or accessing anything should be the least steps possible. especially with wheel settings. think of how many times you get a new game and sit there infuriated trying to set controls.this is basics and very important.

im hoping the next few big titles start to nail some of these basics that big studios keep missing.maybe making the perfect game or as close as possible

I’ve never touched setups before because I don’t understand it at all, but after looking at some tutorials on YouTube for dirt 4, the game is starting to make a lot more sense. The default setups make the handling seem awful

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Areyouben said:
dirt3joe said:
I'm sure it wouldn't stop them if that's what they wanted to do. But why the hell would you buy 25% of a racing studio to then go and outsource production to another ? Makes no sense. It's the kind of thing you might do if you had a short deadline that you couldn't keep. But Kylotonn already have a signifincant proportion of the assets. WRC 7 to WRC 8 is nowhere near the step creating WRC5 from scratch was. That's a tough job for anyone given the timescales.

Yeah I agree. Only thing is, I can't really see a single dev create both games. I'm sure Kylotonn can do WRC and V-Rally with the 120 people strong team they have, but all within the same year? V-Rally comes September, so when should WRC release? 2019? Are they skipping a year? Questions questions.
If you read that statement by Kickup re the licensing it sounds like they were really hurting there. It's possible they got to the stage where they believe they have either got to s**t or get off the pot re licensing deals for the rally games, and maybe the management stumped up the cash.

One thing that occured to me is that if Codies are having issues re using WRC cars in Dirt, then the natural consequence of that would be that VRally would not be able to use WRC cars if someone else had the licence. Anyone seen any WRC in Vrally yet ?

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dgeesi0 said:
wrc 7 is a decent game some things are up there with dirt rally some are not. its a solid 8/10. dirt rally id say 9/10. some things so simple are bad in it though and frustrating. it does bug me when big studios make big titles and miss such basics. bubbles me :#

most rally racing games dont cater for car set ups. only title that seems to do this well recently is f1 games. why the rally games dont follow suit really destroys my mind thinking about it. for eg la la is top of tables. all you do is click that person name and copy set up done ! this needs to happen in the rally games or make the default set ups good from the start . if you dont understand how to set up the cars you are instantly at a disadvantage. in recent dirt games there hasnt been any real showing of how to do this and working in practice ! make it so people have a fair balance and have the same set ups.then it becomes purely about driving rallying. skill. not having a better set up.

gui menu system. often a over thought. one of my pet hates in games is a bad menu system to navigate.the process of playing or accessing anything should be the least steps possible. especially with wheel settings. think of how many times you get a new game and sit there infuriated trying to set controls.this is basics and very important.

im hoping the next few big titles start to nail some of these basics that big studios keep missing.maybe making the perfect game or as close as possible

I’ve never touched setups before because I don’t understand it at all, but after looking at some tutorials on YouTube for dirt 4, the game is starting to make a lot more sense. The default setups make the handling seem awful
I think devs often overlooks the importance of having well thought out setups. Only a few percent of the player base understand car dynamics well enough to tinker with the setups, and even if they do they just don't bother.

There should be an advanced system for those who like to play around with setups, but also simple things like choosing if you prefer a stable understeering car or a lively oversteering car. 

I really like they way Project Cars 2 utilizes the engineer in this case where you by simple options and statements explain what you want or where you have a problem, and the engineer suggests what changes needs to be made.

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bogani said:
dgeesi0 said:
wrc 7 is a decent game some things are up there with dirt rally some are not. its a solid 8/10. dirt rally id say 9/10. some things so simple are bad in it though and frustrating. it does bug me when big studios make big titles and miss such basics. bubbles me :#

most rally racing games dont cater for car set ups. only title that seems to do this well recently is f1 games. why the rally games dont follow suit really destroys my mind thinking about it. for eg la la is top of tables. all you do is click that person name and copy set up done ! this needs to happen in the rally games or make the default set ups good from the start . if you dont understand how to set up the cars you are instantly at a disadvantage. in recent dirt games there hasnt been any real showing of how to do this and working in practice ! make it so people have a fair balance and have the same set ups.then it becomes purely about driving rallying. skill. not having a better set up.

gui menu system. often a over thought. one of my pet hates in games is a bad menu system to navigate.the process of playing or accessing anything should be the least steps possible. especially with wheel settings. think of how many times you get a new game and sit there infuriated trying to set controls.this is basics and very important.

im hoping the next few big titles start to nail some of these basics that big studios keep missing.maybe making the perfect game or as close as possible

I’ve never touched setups before because I don’t understand it at all, but after looking at some tutorials on YouTube for dirt 4, the game is starting to make a lot more sense. The default setups make the handling seem awful
I think devs often overlooks the importance of having well thought out setups. Only a few percent of the player base understand car dynamics well enough to tinker with the setups, and even if they do they just don't bother.

There should be an advanced system for those who like to play around with setups, but also simple things like choosing if you prefer a stable understeering car or a lively oversteering car. 

I really like they way Project Cars 2 utilizes the engineer in this case where you by simple options and statements explain what you want or where you have a problem, and the engineer suggests what changes needs to be made.
This was a bit of an issue in PCars1. Some of the setups were so bad that the car was almost undriveable. The point was that setting up the car was part of the game, which worked well if you were really into that sort of thing, but not so well if you are a casual. Then in PCars 2 they have made it so you can grab other peoples setups. Which to me is a bit of a shame. They ought to find some better balance than what they have currently.

The thing about PCars I love is that I can jump in any car without having to grind. The downside of this is that when a novice user tries this with say the Lotus 98T as their first car the game instantly gets labelled unplayable and returned/unrecommended. Some tough desing choices to make here. The game has to both cater for advanced users, but also provide a more gentle introduction to the advanced racers of the future.

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They could just fix the car difficulty thing by locking all cars above a certain speed/difficulty until you can make it go round under a certain lap time. Let's say you want to unlock the Lotus 98T, you go to the, uhm, let's call it invitations mode or whatever, where you get 'invited' to do a run in the car. You can make that feel as some publicity stuff and make the car unlock a 'reward', where in reality it would be a check to see if you can drive the beast. You go in and have to do a certain lap time on a certain track. As soon as you hit the lap time you unlock that vehicle to use throughout the game. Easy way of rewarding skill without forcing the grind if you've already collected the skills in previous games.

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I haven't tried PC2, but that sounds like a good system. I think the basic sliders in Dirt Rally actually worked decently well. I could quite easily make the car softer and change the diffs a bit. Dirt 4 is much worse. More settings, but not that well explained and it's easy to forget changing them. Or the "I want the rear a bit softer". In DR I could just change the two basic sliders a bit and it'd often do the trick, in D4 I have to change all values manually, and try to figure out if it's fast/slow rebound and if I need to increase the ride height and blaaaaaaargh.

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we have teams of engineers in the game. why are they there ? make them set up the car correctly or just give good default set ups. most people dont know how to set up the cars in game. there is no clear tutorial in any recent dirt game.this needs to be addressed. the funny thing that in the world champships for dirt 4 for eg unless you played quite a bit you cant even set the cars up to the same as someone who has unlocked some of the set ups.this can be a massive performance difference. one car i tried for eg someone said try this set up. couldnt use the same settings as i had not unlocked the set up enough to use it. thats why you need to use default set ups for events like this. also have good defaults from the start also explain and show what works what doesnt.showing what works is very important so people understand it better and see proof of it working.

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I don’t think we will here any dirt news for a little while yet. They are currently focused on pushing onrush marketing, so probably wouldn’t want to take any attention away from that. Plus they’re also pushing dirt e sports at the moment. Onrush comes out early June I think, but that’s quite a wait as it would probably mean not announcing dirt until July, which is quite a long way away. Also, depends how long it’s been in development. Dirt 4 came out in June last year, which doesn’t leave much time. They’ve obviously had some of the team working on leagues and e sports.

I may be wrong, but I feel we will be waiting until the summer before we hear some news. But still, CHOO CHOO HYPETRAIN IS LEAVING THE STATION
Wouldn't we first need to know whether there ACTUALLY is anything in the works by Codies? I mean I think there is, but we have heard absolutely nothing about it, we aren't even sure about its existence, let alone release date. I think it's too early to start the Hype Train. Hence why someone at Codies should make sure to throw in some stuff we can Gossip about ;)

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dirt3joe said:
If you read that statement by Kickup re the licensing it sounds like they were really hurting there. It's possible they got to the stage where they believe they have either got to s**t or get off the pot re licensing deals for the rally games, and maybe the management stumped up the cash.

One thing that occured to me is that if Codies are having issues re using WRC cars in Dirt, then the natural consequence of that would be that VRally would not be able to use WRC cars if someone else had the licence. Anyone seen any WRC in Vrally yet ?
It's true that things change, over time, and it's been 15 years since the last V-Rally came out, but you know what all V-Rally games, to date, had? WRC cars and some official drivers. It could be that they might be skipping a year with the WRC series and will try something different this year. Who knows, maybe WRCs are amongst the modern machinery their list will include. We only know 4 out of 50 cars that will be in the game.

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Did I miss the Road Book that was mentioned back on 09 Feb? (As in "If all goes to plan there will be one in the next week or two")

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dgeesi0 said:
maybe they are very busy on something ? :p 
Maybe they are busy... lending a hand with other Codies projects, like Onrush. Who knows.

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They couldn’t not be doing SOMETHING??  Not after D4.  It’s not the game you put your feet up after, is it?

Do the DiRT guys have any involvement in that OnRush carry-on?  

Id be ultra-frustrated if that’s what they have all been doing since DiRT 4  :/

I’ll say it again, this Radio silence is really really worrying.  Someone must know something???!

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KevM said:
They couldn’t not be doing SOMETHING??  Not after D4.  It’s not the game you put your feet up after, is it?

Do the DiRT guys have any involvement in that OnRush carry-on?  

Id be ultra-frustrated if that’s what they have all been doing since DiRT 4  :/

I’ll say it again, this Radio silence is really really worrying.  Someone must know something???!
Judging from the fact @ChristinaMc said she dropped hints about Dirt 4 in several road books, i'd say the clues are all there and they must have been working on something other than Dirt 4. The clubs patch was largely thanks to the racenet team I'd have thought...

Wasn't there that brief glimpse of a possible new environment in the Codemasters behind the scenes video? Clutching at straws here.

Edit: Couldn't find it but did find a post from ChristinaMC stating that OnRush team is different and the DiRT team are their own separate entity. 

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KevM said:
They couldn’t not be doing SOMETHING??  Not after D4.  It’s not the game you put your feet up after, is it?

Do the DiRT guys have any involvement in that OnRush carry-on?  

Id be ultra-frustrated if that’s what they have all been doing since DiRT 4  :/

I’ll say it again, this Radio silence is really really worrying.  Someone must know something???!
Judging from the fact @ChristinaMc said she dropped hints about Dirt 4 in several road books, i'd say the clues are all there and they must have been working on something other than Dirt 4. The clubs patch was largely thanks to the racenet team I'd have thought...

Wasn't there that brief glimpse of a possible new environment in the Codemasters behind the scenes video? Clutching at straws here.

Edit: Couldn't find it but did find a post from ChristinaMC stating that OnRush team is different and the DiRT team are their own separate entity. 
I think there was a printed map of the new Silverstone Rallycross circuit laying on a table innthe Codies office. You could see it in a picture they took. That would still involve the WRX licence though and it could mean nothing.

I genuinely kept an eye for potential hints in roadbooks (dear lord what am I doing with my life) but I haven't found any. And there haven't even been that many road books recently...

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carpa said:
KevM said:
They couldn’t not be doing SOMETHING??  Not after D4.  It’s not the game you put your feet up after, is it?

Do the DiRT guys have any involvement in that OnRush carry-on?  

Id be ultra-frustrated if that’s what they have all been doing since DiRT 4  :/

I’ll say it again, this Radio silence is really really worrying.  Someone must know something???!
Judging from the fact @ChristinaMc said she dropped hints about Dirt 4 in several road books, i'd say the clues are all there and they must have been working on something other than Dirt 4. The clubs patch was largely thanks to the racenet team I'd have thought...

Wasn't there that brief glimpse of a possible new environment in the Codemasters behind the scenes video? Clutching at straws here.

Edit: Couldn't find it but did find a post from ChristinaMC stating that OnRush team is different and the DiRT team are their own separate entity. 
I think there was a printed map of the new Silverstone Rallycross circuit laying on a table innthe Codies office. You could see it in a picture they took. That would still involve the WRX licence though and it could mean nothing.

I genuinely kept an eye for potential hints in roadbooks (dear lord what am I doing with my life) but I haven't found any. And there haven't even been that many road books recently...
I think he means another clip where someone says "our enviromental team is hard at work" and you can see a roadmap of some sort that is clearly a road, not a circuit.

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