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I’m certainly not as cynical as @LudwigVonMises and part of the problem companies like Codies have is our individual hopes and expectations. We each have an idea of how we’d like them to do something (I’d love to see an in-depth AI that changes from season to season) and our own little bugbears (put the Stratos back in H2 already!), but it’s impossible for them to meet everything we hope for.

However, the thing I would like to see is an admission of things that won’t be perfect. The road order will be a fairly simple implementation (although with so many classes and cars, nothing will be too simple), but so what? It’s a step forward in the right direction. It’s frustrating to me that Codies won’t come out and say “it’s a start” and that there are potential customers who would say “it should be perfect”.

Unique stage kilometres is another one. Come out, say “it’s going to have 120km at the start - top quality but we realise it will get repetitive - but we’ll be adding 40km over the first two DLCs and we’re looking at how to incorporate the 120km from the first game”.

I’ve been spoiled by following developments such as Il-2 Sturmovik and Assetto Corsa, whose devs are as open as possible and open to saying “this won’t be the most amazing thing ever, but we think it’s a big step forward”. Unfortunately, Codemasters don’t seem to feel like they’re in a position to do this, possibly because they’re after a wider audience than those titles and feel this approach won’t work with the non-sim target crowd. 

Like @Rallystu2 I’m happy to overlook DiRT 4, which I feel was victim of the approach taken above, and my goodwill from DR1 is mainly still there. It feels like DR2 is a great step forward from the game design side, but I would like to see the marketing and promotion developing in the ‘right’ (to me) way.

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The degradation system can easily suffer changes for further improvement if it's needed. The hardest part is done.
The most important thing is that it's coming and it's there, so that's a big start.

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AIPacino said:
We are just speculating here, but if that is true, that just shows the incompetence on Reliance's side, because DiRT4 costed more than it returned and if they had listened to Paul and to us like they did on DR, we'd be looking for a DiRT Rally 2 big expansion pack here since DiRT4 wouldn't have existed in the first place.
As I said, this isn't new. Remember DiRT Showdown and Grid 2? It's still a mistery to me why they thought a demolition derby game with the DiRT IP would sell, and while Grid 2 was a very good game IMO, it was obviously not what the players wanted. That's really annoying because we got Autosport a year later and, while it's a good game, it's the opposite of what the first Grid was.

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AIPacino said:
We are just speculating here, but if that is true, that just shows the incompetence on Reliance's side, because DiRT4 costed more than it returned and if they had listened to Paul and to us like they did on DR, we'd be looking for a DiRT Rally 2 big expansion pack here since DiRT4 wouldn't have existed in the first place. Perhaps DR2 would've been released by the time D4 came out, and this could've just been one of their planned seasons to expand the game further, which would've been the best route at the time.
The signs were there, the market wasn't asking for a new DiRT arcade entry but still they went for it and surprise surprise, everyone got screwed including Codemasters. Noone won in that game, except for experience to not repeat the same mistake.
Can you back that up? That D4 cost more than it made? Or is it just speculation? 

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Glad to read more people don't feel the need to believe the hypetrain of codies after dirt4. I promissed myself never to buy a game with pre-order anymore, thanks codies for this ?.

However I also am one of the noVRnoBuy guys. It isn't just because of the better gameplay with a VR, but also I invested in a VR. Without VR in a game I would have to invest again in a good monitor and a holder to mount it on my playseat which would be again about 1000 euro's. So this has nothing to do with suggested childless behaviour, if you are on that path please rethink..

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It's not a case of that path being a childish one, it's the way in which the most vocal people on that path, are all acting childishly.

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Hi all, a reaction of me of what is posted lately.

-------------------------------

All DiRT games have been very different from each other. The only thing we know is that Codemasters want DR2.0 to be a successor of DiRT Rally 1 and not from DiRT 1, 2, 3 and 4. With Ryan and Jon helping with the physics, the positive sounds of the community testers and the so far seen gameplay footage, I am positive the physics made a good step forward compared to DR1 and D4.

-------------------------------

The communication about the different release versions off the game have been very vague since the beginning and it still not really clear. Maybe it is due that they still busy to make deals and things about it. But the longer it stays vague, the longer pre-orders stay out for CM. So in this case CM not only 'hurt' the players, but also theirselves.

So I guess the packs are now like this?
http://www.codemasters.com/dirt-rally-2-0-day-one-retail-edition-and-pre-order-content-announced/ 
http://www.codemasters.com/codemasters-announces-dirt-rally-2-0/
https://store.codemasters.com/uk/product/500551/dirt-rally-20-deluxe-edition

Standard edition:
- DiRT Rally 2.0
- No extras

Day-One edition ('big' limited stock)
- DiRT Rally 2.0
- Porsche 911 RGT Rally Spec
- Early unlock: Fiat 131 Abarth Rally
- Early unlock: Alpine Renault A110 1600 S

Deluxe edition ('small' limited stock at selected retailers)
- DiRT Rally 2.0
- Porsche 911 RGT Rally Spec
- Early unlock: Fiat 131 Abarth Rally 
- Early unlock: Alpine Renault A110 1600 S
- Early unlock: Ford Escort Mk II
- Early unlock: Lancia Stratos
- Early unlock: Subaru Impreza 1995
- Early unlock: AUDI Sport quattro S1 E2
- Early unlock: Ford Fiesta OMSE SuperCar Lite
- Season 1 DLC (three locations / five additional early verhicles unlocks*)
- Season 2 DLC (three locations / five additional early verhicles unlocks*)
- Get game four days early
- Upgraded starter cars / Ingame bonuses / High reward events
* Early unlocks? So no new cars? Just unlocks? Or unlocks of new added cars? What does this mean?

Unknown (at selected retailers for preorders):
- Steelbook
- Opel Kadett C GT/E
- Porsche onlu day-one and Deluxe only?
Very unknown about the steelbook and the Opel. Maybe not get, maybe just one of the two (they talk about and/or), maybe both. Very strange.

I want to order a Deluxe edition, but nothing news about order possibilities (yet) for the Netherlands (and all other countries) :(

--------------------------------

DLC.
- There will be a total of 6 locations in the first two seasons. It is known all WRX tracks will come to the game. So 4 will be already allocated for Riga, CotA, Estering and South Africa rallycross tracks. Other two will be Rally locations. 

I have the feeling CM goes a little towards EA. 
They will add new cars for everyone which you can unlock and upgrading it in game by playing, or inmeditely unlock it with the season DLC.

---------------------------------

Road deformation has been explained. With every run it changes.
It is not static with just 3 different deformation conditions with  'sweeping' / 'perfect' / 'rutted'
It is constant chaning with the first car having the heaviest sweeping, and with the fifth the easiest sweeping, and with runners 6-10 kinda have perfect conditions and runners 11 and after getting more and more worse rutted conditions.

---------------------------------

It would be strange the leagues/clubs are out. i think Codemasters not talked about it yet, as due to online e-sports competitions announcements. 


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Glad to read more people don't feel the need to believe the hypetrain of codies after dirt4. I promissed myself never to buy a game with pre-order anymore, thanks codies for this ?.

However I also am one of the noVRnoBuy guys. It isn't just because of the better gameplay with a VR, but also I invested in a VR. Without VR in a game I would have to invest again in a good monitor and a holder to mount it on my playseat which would be again about 1000 euro's. So this has nothing to do with suggested childless behaviour, if you are on that path please rethink..
When I say these people behave like kids, I wasn't meaning the fact that they are asking for VR. I meant the way they do it. It's nothing wrong with saying that you want devs, to implement something, but when it's like 10 guys shitposting #NoVRNoBuy under every goddamn single post by Codies over and over, it's annoying as hell. Not even mentioning the fact that they have stated it multiple times, what are the chances of VR in DR2. The game is under development and if you post this hashtag under those posts, it won't make VR implement itself, like really guys, what do you expect will happen?

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@JorritVD

Good summary, few additions:

- I think the 5 'unlocks' per DLC was a typo, based on this saying 5 cars: https://store.codemasters.com/uk/product/500551/dirt-rally-20-deluxe-edition

- Agree with the question about the Opel, that's terribly worded

- I doubt there's a limit of pre-order 'stock', they'll digitally sell as many as they can

- The '3 tracks' needs clarifying before I go anywhere near a Season Pass order; it's most likely 2x RX venues and 1x Rally location (with the usual two stages), but this distinction is important. It could be 2 long rally stages and 1 RX venue with the wording 'tracks' in the store


---

The other part that grates here is that the only social media post this entire week has been about pre orders? The original announcement included pre order info (and was heavily focused around it) and the second published press release is also about the same info (but slightly less clear). Less sales talk and more showing what the product is please (stream with a Porsche pretty please!).


Sorry, I've rambled too much on here today, just been waiting for the WRC on TV :tongue:

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That availability amounts only relate to physical copies.
You can get day 1 and deluxe just ordering through steam.

I disagree on the road sweeping comment, it does not look to be progressive.  Not complaining at all, but does appear to be pre-swept, swept and rutted, as shown in various stage start screens.

Extreme outside chance that the 3 icons are showing which stage the road sweeping is at, and can be any variation within that section.

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In response to @jorritvd I think the road deformation has been more or less limited to 3 effects. Whilst I hope I'm wrong on that I don't believe there's been any information eluding to progressive deformation within the three main types. Hopefully codemasters can clarify.....?

Also there's been no mention of the deformation effects in different weather conditions or sealed surface..

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Rallystu2 said:
In response to @jorritvd I think the road deformation has been more or less limited to 3 effects. Whilst I hope I'm wrong on that I don't believe there's been any information eluding to progressive deformation within the three main types. Hopefully codemasters can clarify.....?

Also there's been no mention of the deformation effects in different weather conditions or sealed surface..
To be fair, it would be incredibly challenging to do this car by car. I think this is probably the right way to do it, as it’s basically what you will be getting in real life anyway, albeit slightly more gradual than ‘car 10 = perfect conditions, car 11 = rough’. But I think what we will get will be pretty decent and it will be a fresh breathe of air and a new challenge each time you run a stage

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Phase 1 and 2 of the deformation I'm not too fussed about progression. But phase 3 (rutting/cambering) should have progression. Car 11 and car 50 should have different levels of stage deformation. Also it would be nice if the second run through a stage has progressive ruttinb too

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Ultimately, anything that slightly changes how you need to drive the stage you are sure to end up memorising, is a great thing in a Rally game.  

Stop acting like spoilt kiddies lol

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Rallystu2 said:
In response to @jorritvd I think the road deformation has been more or less limited to 3 effects. Whilst I hope I'm wrong on that I don't believe there's been any information eluding to progressive deformation within the three main types. Hopefully codemasters can clarify.....?

Also there's been no mention of the deformation effects in different weather conditions or sealed surface..
They did mention that road deformation in rainy conditions will be extremely challenging. So they did mention it. 

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bogani said:
Rallystu2 said:
In response to @jorritvd I think the road deformation has been more or less limited to 3 effects. Whilst I hope I'm wrong on that I don't believe there's been any information eluding to progressive deformation within the three main types. Hopefully codemasters can clarify.....?

Also there's been no mention of the deformation effects in different weather conditions or sealed surface..
They did mention that road deformation in rainy conditions will be extremely challenging. So they did mention it. 
They mentioned it would be difficult but not how it differs for different road position. And there's nothing spoilt kiddy about a new implementation. For me it's a great thing to have to whatever degree they've used it.

 However I think the concerns are whether it's another half job like 'your stage' was. There's no issue it's a great move forward though.

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Dont know if it is possible, but I would love to have an option to hear Co-Driver from Headphones and Car, surface, sfx... From speakers
I remember there was a setting like this for the race engineer in the latest F1 games, so it shouldn't be technically impossible... 

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Dont know if it is possible, but I would love to have an option to hear Co-Driver from Headphones and Car, surface, sfx... From speakers

 I remember I asked about this when Dirt Rally was just out and someone sugested I could get this effect already (provided I had 5.1 sound output on my PC) by plugging the headphones into the center channel output because that was soley or predominately used for the codriver voice. Dont think I never tried it though but it sounds like it could work well and add that extra emersion factor, maybe it would work with Dirt 2.0 if they do the sound in a similar way to Dirt?

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Rallystu2 said:
bogani said:
Rallystu2 said:
In response to @jorritvd I think the road deformation has been more or less limited to 3 effects. Whilst I hope I'm wrong on that I don't believe there's been any information eluding to progressive deformation within the three main types. Hopefully codemasters can clarify.....?

Also there's been no mention of the deformation effects in different weather conditions or sealed surface..
They did mention that road deformation in rainy conditions will be extremely challenging. So they did mention it. 
They mentioned it would be difficult but not how it differs for different road position. And there's nothing spoilt kiddy about a new implementation. For me it's a great thing to have to whatever degree they've used it.

 However I think the concerns are whether it's another half job like 'your stage' was. There's no issue it's a great move forward though.
The specifically said that rain with a degraded road would be a real challenge. 

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bogani said:
Rallystu2 said:
bogani said:
Rallystu2 said:
In response to @jorritvd I think the road deformation has been more or less limited to 3 effects. Whilst I hope I'm wrong on that I don't believe there's been any information eluding to progressive deformation within the three main types. Hopefully codemasters can clarify.....?

Also there's been no mention of the deformation effects in different weather conditions or sealed surface..
They did mention that road deformation in rainy conditions will be extremely challenging. So they did mention it. 
They mentioned it would be difficult but not how it differs for different road position. And there's nothing spoilt kiddy about a new implementation. For me it's a great thing to have to whatever degree they've used it.

 However I think the concerns are whether it's another half job like 'your stage' was. There's no issue it's a great move forward though.
The specifically said that rain with a degraded road would be a real challenge. 
I know that, I've seen every release and watched every video but they certainly haven't gone into any detail. Or not enough for me anyway.

How will dynamic weather (If featured) effect things. What stages of deformation are active for wet weather?, is it still a 3 stage system or is it less clear cut than that?

Will rally events feature a day 2 reversal of running order as in WRC?

And how does surface degradation work on sealed surfaces.

It's been quite vague, I'd like to know more.

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im sure the more closer to launch we get the more we will learn. you dont just blurt everything out. you tease realease info slowly and build to launch.

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dgeesi0 said:
im sure the more closer to launch we get the more we will learn. you dont just blurt everything out. you tease realease info slowly and build to launch.
Yep I agree that's what will happen. But maybe because of d4 trust issues a more candid approach earlier may assist pre sales

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Well it’s been a glorious three weeks but I’ve fonally finished red dead (no I’m not crying, you are). Think I might be ready to hang up my saddle by February and get back to motorised transport

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They did state that you'll get puddles in the holes/ruts on worn surface in rainy conditions.  They have also stated that track degradation affects grip levels as well as the track shape, so that answers the sealed surface question.

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