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ShodanCat said:
I didn't say you can't have fun anymore, but you have to admit you've got most if not all of the major corners memorized. The entire point of rally is to go up against roads and terrain you're not familiar with.
You're not wrong, but the thing with rally is that even if you know exactly what line you should take, the odds of you actually hitting that line are slim. I know the corners, but trying to hit them flatout and the absolute limits of the car is insanely hard.

I'd love more blind races where I don't know the stage, but learning to recognize certain features doesn't detract from the fun IMO. It is at that point where I start feeling a bit cocky and start trying to push for top #100 times which opens up entirely new "end-game" content.

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ShodanCat said:
I didn't say you can't have fun anymore, but you have to admit you've got most if not all of the major corners memorized. The entire point of rally is to go up against roads and terrain you're not familiar with.
actually i dont think thats true in todays rallying anymore ......................

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eSports is what's going to keep the game fresh, not infinite stages. I'm up for more stages in DLC, as well as more rallies, but that's unlikely to happen as the devs would have to travel to those places again to make the recognition etc.

A couple of rallies could surely use an extra third stage, like Magram's Park in Wales, Bunnings in Australia, Sisteron in Monte Carlo, Viladrau in Spain and a vineyard stage in ADAC. There might be a few more stages on other rallies, but so far these ones are what call more to attention.

Also, there's no law forbidding some rallies to have more stages than the others. It doesn't always have to be 12 stages per rally you know. It's technically a lot cheaper and do-able for CM to add an extra stage for Wales or any other european country, than travel to Argentina or Australia. So I would absolutely not oppose if this possibility ever gets on the table. Traveling inside the EU nowadays is quite cheap and simple.

What should've been done already though, is the photographing and recognition of other stages in Australia, NZ, Argentina, while the devs were actually there. That way they would already have enough material to make 2 long stages for launch, and add one or two more in DLC, without having extra trip costs. Who knows, maybe that's what they've done, because what takes the most time is the work inside the studio.

I also see no problem if the devs consider developing stages very similar to reality, but without having to be milimetricly real to their real counterparts, for the sake of the content. There's a lot that can be seen from google maps and WRC highlights. For example the bunnings jumps stage in Australia, if the devs were in NSW, it wouldn't be viable for them to travel 4h by plane just to get to the other end of the country for an iconic stage. So this method could be used.

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Those people who would like a challenge with fresh and long stages should try the Dakar'18 game . It is first a navigation expérience and absolutely fantastic. That said, you don't play Dakar for its physics.

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ShodanCat said:
I didn't say you can't have fun anymore, but you have to admit you've got most if not all of the major corners memorized. The entire point of rally is to go up against roads and terrain you're not familiar with.
I know it's repeated over and over, but: not really. They drove the road on recce. They drove it on second recce. The gravel crew drove it. They drove it on the morning loop and on the afternoon loop. They watched video footage all night. They drove it last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. How did we get "iconic" stages in the first place?
Conditions can change dramatically, and DR2.0's surface degradation will hopefully contribute to that significantly, in addition to weather, time of day, "unexpected moments", etc (bring back DR's random rocks!).
Also, I feel it's necessary to point this out:
"We want more stage km's!"
CM develop procedural generation tech

"We want handcrafted stages!"
CM go back to making handcrafted stages

"We want more stage km's!"
It's a wonder they bother at all.

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SkyRex said:
ShodanCat said:
All I know is that 12 unique stages are going to get stale really fast. When you're doing 6+ stages in a rally, you'll be driving over the same terrain over and over. I accept this as a limitation, I just hope they keep moving forward to give us significant content to consume over the life of the product.
WRC 7 had even less unique stage km than DR 1. So as it stands, as a modern, unmodded game, DR2 will still become the one with the most unique stage km. Even if more would be nicer.
This is not true. After omitting the repeated parts of the Epic Stages that are not inverted, WRC 7 has a total of 348.55 unique km. The 12 stages of DR, when reversed, gives a total of 279.45 unique km. SLRE has 495.60 unique km.
*takes notes* make sure we eventually have 495.61 unique km in the game...


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dwkGravey said:
ShodanCat said:
I didn't say you can't have fun anymore, but you have to admit you've got most if not all of the major corners memorized. The entire point of rally is to go up against roads and terrain you're not familiar with.
I know it's repeated over and over, but: not really. They drove the road on recce. They drove it on second recce. The gravel crew drove it. They drove it on the morning loop and on the afternoon loop. They watched video footage all night. They drove it last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. How did we get "iconic" stages in the first place?
Conditions can change dramatically, and DR2.0's surface degradation will hopefully contribute to that significantly, in addition to weather, time of day, "unexpected moments", etc (bring back DR's random rocks!).
Also, I feel it's necessary to point this out:
"We want more stage km's!"
CM develop procedural generation tech

"We want handcrafted stages!"
CM go back to making handcrafted stages

"We want more stage km's!"
It's a wonder they bother at all.
Its quite possible to have both handcrafted stages, and more unique kilometers. I think, and so do others that In 2018 a big rally game should have more than 12 stages at launch. Im not slating codemasters and im not arguing that it's not an issue of resources. I'm saying there really should be more Km's.

Edit: If Codemasters commit to further DLC and we end up with 12/13 rally events then all is forgiven. I just have a feeling that after season 2 we won't get any more rallies.

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495.61 is such an unround number, so better round it up to an even 500 kilometres. Haha.

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If you combine DR1's stages with DR2.0, there's more km's than any of those games. Plenty to choose from.
And if we happen to get lucky and get one or two new rallies besides that, it'd be the icing on the cake.

I wouldn't mind dropping ADAC for Corsica, or Greece for Portugal. But since both are already modeled, it's quite easier to keep them in and then if there's room add the others.

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sqdstr said:
Lynx2000 said:
JorritVD said:
New footage DR2.0 from DiePixelHelden   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewkOhNuM0Qo
The dash in the Fiesta is still the roadmode
It's the R2 Fiesta in that video, not the R5
The Fiesta R2 display should look the same as in the Fiesta R5 in stage mode:

https://youtu.be/Q7ATZmch5rE

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Stop whining all, here eat some footage :tongue: .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZsc9rMXgA

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JorritVD said:
Stop whining all, here eat some footage :tongue: .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZsc9rMXgA
Good idea! I feel like Poland will be my nemesis - it's so nice seeing the car behave correctly over jumps - to take it back to the previous conversation it makes me hope even more that the Finnish stages from DR1 make it over one day, to play it with proper physics.

This game is advertised so much better when not using chase cam - should have removed that option from the press demo!

Finally, I can't believe there are people out there saying things like "this is arcade, DR1 was a sim" when the movement in this one looks so much more natural.

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JorritVD said:
Stop whining all, here eat some footage :tongue: .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZsc9rMXgA
Good idea! I feel like Poland will be my nemesis - it's so nice seeing the car behave correctly over jumps - to take it back to the previous conversation it makes me hope even more that the Finnish stages from DR1 make it over one day, to play it with proper physics.

This game is advertised so much better when not using chase cam - should have removed that option from the press demo!

Finally, I can't believe there are people out there saying things like "this is arcade, DR1 was a sim" when the movement in this one looks so much more natural.
Prove it (this is sim)

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Jut a video for the friday evening from Xite at ASI19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VSCLXrDmUw

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kheiro said:
JorritVD said:
Stop whining all, here eat some footage :tongue: .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZsc9rMXgA
Good idea! I feel like Poland will be my nemesis - it's so nice seeing the car behave correctly over jumps - to take it back to the previous conversation it makes me hope even more that the Finnish stages from DR1 make it over one day, to play it with proper physics.

This game is advertised so much better when not using chase cam - should have removed that option from the press demo!

Finally, I can't believe there are people out there saying things like "this is arcade, DR1 was a sim" when the movement in this one looks so much more natural.
Prove it (this is sim)
I can't, I haven't played it yet. You'll notice I didn't even say it is in my post.

However, go watch the clip Jorrit posted of the Group A Impreza in Poland and find one of the same car in Finland in DR1 and tell me which looks most close to RL.

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You all are proably right about how long it takes to create the stage by hand.   Which possibly explainss why your stage is as able to be longer.   

64bit?  That was more a example not fact.   Only thinking about another game that when they converted the engine to 64bit, they could make larger maps.


I was really talking out my butt.   Anyone want to sit and speculate if UFOs are real, or the moon landing is faked?  :)


@tbtstt sorry, man, didn’t even mean it like that this time.  :)


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Lynx2000 said:
JorritVD said:
New footage DR2.0 from DiePixelHelden   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewkOhNuM0Qo
The dash in the Fiesta is still the roadmode
Could be wrong, but I think the Polo R5 is too. Wonder if it's one of those annoying licence things?

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Lynx2000 said:
JorritVD said:
New footage DR2.0 from DiePixelHelden   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewkOhNuM0Qo
The dash in the Fiesta is still the roadmode
Could be wrong, but I think the Polo R5 is too. Wonder if it's one of those annoying licence things?
I’d say it’s based on the pictures taken by the art team/ supplied pictures for them to model the dash, and they would likely have been taken when the car was in road mode. 

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Lynx2000 said:
JorritVD said:
New footage DR2.0 from DiePixelHelden   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewkOhNuM0Qo
The dash in the Fiesta is still the roadmode
Could be wrong, but I think the Polo R5 is too. Wonder if it's one of those annoying licence things?
That would be a pretty weird thing to forbid. "You can use our car, but make sure you don't use the race mode dashboard."

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Rallystu2 said:
dwkGravey said:
ShodanCat said:
I didn't say you can't have fun anymore, but you have to admit you've got most if not all of the major corners memorized. The entire point of rally is to go up against roads and terrain you're not familiar with.
I know it's repeated over and over, but: not really. They drove the road on recce. They drove it on second recce. The gravel crew drove it. They drove it on the morning loop and on the afternoon loop. They watched video footage all night. They drove it last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. How did we get "iconic" stages in the first place?
Conditions can change dramatically, and DR2.0's surface degradation will hopefully contribute to that significantly, in addition to weather, time of day, "unexpected moments", etc (bring back DR's random rocks!).
Also, I feel it's necessary to point this out:
"We want more stage km's!"
CM develop procedural generation tech

"We want handcrafted stages!"
CM go back to making handcrafted stages

"We want more stage km's!"
It's a wonder they bother at all.
Its quite possible to have both handcrafted stages, and more unique kilometers. I think, and so do others that In 2018 a big rally game should have more than 12 stages at launch. Im not slating codemasters and im not arguing that it's not an issue of resources. I'm saying there really should be more Km's.

Edit: If Codemasters commit to further DLC and we end up with 12/13 rally events then all is forgiven. I just have a feeling that after season 2 we won't get any more rallies.
The other thing I foresee is, if CM ported DR's stages to DR2.0, 'easily' doubling the number of stages and bringing back some classics, a lot of people would flip out about it. It would be even worse if CM charged for it. They would complain that CM is recycling content, cash grab, lazy, etc (these are probably the same people who happily pay for Spa and Monza over and over every year with each F1 game).

Like you say, it's an issue of resources. CM has a level of quality they're happy with, and a budget and a timeline, and 12 stages (and a few RX circuits!) seems to be what fits. They could always charge more for the game!

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gfRally said:
@tbtstt sorry, man, didn’t even mean it like that this time.  :)
Your hatred of consoles runs so deep you don't even realise you're doing it!  :D

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FWIW, I really like what I'm seeing so far. And perhaps we should all consider that when somebody's "complaint" is that there isn't enough of the game, the game is probably pretty good. ;)

PS Anyone think there's a chance we'll see that classic Porsche 911 that we know Codies was recording a while back? DLC car maybe?

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Also, once again Codies' sound team (guy? girl? people?) deserve massive props. There are very, very few racing sims that get the sound of a car right to the point where you can close your eyes and it sounds pretty much like you're watching real footage (or sitting in the real thing.) The Dirt series is definitely one of them.

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dwkGravey said:
Rallystu2 said:
dwkGravey said:
ShodanCat said:
I didn't say you can't have fun anymore, but you have to admit you've got most if not all of the major corners memorized. The entire point of rally is to go up against roads and terrain you're not familiar with.
I know it's repeated over and over, but: not really. They drove the road on recce. They drove it on second recce. The gravel crew drove it. They drove it on the morning loop and on the afternoon loop. They watched video footage all night. They drove it last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. How did we get "iconic" stages in the first place?
Conditions can change dramatically, and DR2.0's surface degradation will hopefully contribute to that significantly, in addition to weather, time of day, "unexpected moments", etc (bring back DR's random rocks!).
Also, I feel it's necessary to point this out:
"We want more stage km's!"
CM develop procedural generation tech

"We want handcrafted stages!"
CM go back to making handcrafted stages

"We want more stage km's!"
It's a wonder they bother at all.
Its quite possible to have both handcrafted stages, and more unique kilometers. I think, and so do others that In 2018 a big rally game should have more than 12 stages at launch. Im not slating codemasters and im not arguing that it's not an issue of resources. I'm saying there really should be more Km's.

Edit: If Codemasters commit to further DLC and we end up with 12/13 rally events then all is forgiven. I just have a feeling that after season 2 we won't get any more rallies.
The other thing I foresee is, if CM ported DR's stages to DR2.0, 'easily' doubling the number of stages and bringing back some classics, a lot of people would flip out about it. It would be even worse if CM charged for it. They would complain that CM is recycling content, cash grab, lazy, etc (these are probably the same people who happily pay for Spa and Monza over and over every year with each F1 game).

Like you say, it's an issue of resources. CM has a level of quality they're happy with, and a budget and a timeline, and 12 stages (and a few RX circuits!) seems to be what fits. They could always charge more for the game!
I'd happily have all the dr1 rallies back but I think if you're only offering 6 events, make double the stages. The same amount as dr1, a game released in 2014, and whose biggest criticism was the lack of stages I feel it isn't good enough personally.
I'm a codemasters fan boy, and will defend them to the hilt, however I'll also state things that I'm unhappy with. And it isn't unreasonable to request more stages than dr1 had. It really isn't unreasonable at all.

We still don't actually know how many stages are on offer.

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