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So, how many watched the RX? What did you think of Hansens move? I wasn't surprised he ended up with a penalty. There was no opening there unless you place 90% of your car inside the track, which he did. 

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bogani said:
So, how many watched the RX? What did you think of Hansens move? I wasn't surprised he ended up with a penalty. There was no opening there unless you place 90% of your car inside the track, which he did. 
Hansen deserved the win (he was bloody quick, especially on the Sunday), but I did think he was pushing the track limits when he took that last corner. 

Pity Solberg didn't have much luck in the finals. He had a bad semi final which put him on the back foot for the final. Nice to see some other drivers on the podium though and Petter still managed to to extent his Championship lead, so I daresay he won't be too disappointed after the weekend. 

Holjes isn't the best place for pacing but it's still a superb circuit. Some of the photos from the jump prior to the last corner are jaw dropping. 

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tbtstt said:
Not really DiRTy gossip, but while we are waiting for @GentleNameMVB to post his report from Holjes, here are a couple of rally cars from the Goodwood Festival of Speed...





We really need dat Focus in game!

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tbtstt said:
Not really DiRTy gossip, but while we are waiting for @GentleNameMVB to post his report from Holjes, here are a couple of rally cars from the Goodwood Festival of Speed...





I know I've said it before, but you don't half take some crackin' photos! :smiley: 

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tbtstt said:
Not really DiRTy gossip, but while we are waiting for @GentleNameMVB to post his report from Holjes, here are a couple of rally cars from the Goodwood Festival of Speed...





I know I've said it before, but you don't half take some crackin' photos! :smiley: 

Cheers @LiteralZero ! Would like to have given the camera more use at Goodwood, but there is so much to see I didn't want to get waylaid taking photos!

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gfRally said:
Haha nice one Lee 

https://twitter.com/dirtgame/status/617265674998677504
And that's why we will probably not see an S1 in DiRT
Shouldn't have anything to do with it at all, they are just a sponsor.
An accurate livery maybe, but DiRT Rally, by default, doesn't have any 100% accurate liveries anyway, especially when it comes to sponsors.
The Peugeot 405 T16 for example is lacking the Pioneer logo (and I'm surprised no one has done a more accurate recreation yet. Pretty sure there was one for DiRT3).

The Peugeot 908 HDi FAP ran with Playstation titles, but that didn't stop it from being in Microsofts Xbox exclusive Forza series.
http://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/peugeot-908-hdi-fap-paris-2010/peugeot-908-hdi-fap-paris-2010-02.jpg
It just didn't have the Playstation logo on it. In fact, they just replaced it with Xbox 360 titles. :wink: 
http://compass.xboxlive.com/assets/ea/0c/ea0cffde-7794-46b4-8302-09fc5f63fbc3.jpg?n=PEU_9_908_09-20131213.jpg
Of course, despite being a console game, one of the stand-out features of Forza is it's powerful in-game livery creation and sharing systems, so the community took care of that pretty sharpish
http://www.xboxygen.com/IMG/jpg/Forza4-car_79_.jpg

If you look back to even Colin McRae Rally 3, despite the Martini Racing Ford Focus WRC being the title car and the only one that could be played in the games "Become Colin McRae" career mode, it doesn't actually have ANY Martini logos on it.
Martini logos in Gran Turismo are also censored in much the same way that tobacco advertising was in F1, barcode style.

So yeah, all that kind of stuff is pretty common.
Sponsors can have a say about their logos appearing/being licensed, but not something like the car itself. 

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Before having an agreement with Playstation,Peugeot had a deal with Xbox 360.In fact the 24h winning 908 was run in Xbox 360 stickers.Also in 2007 Enrique Ojeda raced a 207 s2000 in Irc with Xbox logos(car was included in FM3).Just to let you know.

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BrySkye said:
gfRally said:
Haha nice one Lee 

https://twitter.com/dirtgame/status/617265674998677504
And that's why we will probably not see an S1 in DiRT
Shouldn't have anything to do with it at all, they are just a sponsor.
An accurate livery maybe, but DiRT Rally, by default, doesn't have any 100% accurate liveries anyway, especially when it comes to sponsors.
The Peugeot 405 T16 for example is lacking the Pioneer logo (and I'm surprised no one has done a more accurate recreation yet. Pretty sure there was one for DiRT3).

The Peugeot 908 HDi FAP ran with Playstation titles, but that didn't stop it from being in Microsofts Xbox exclusive Forza series.
http://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/peugeot-908-hdi-fap-paris-2010/peugeot-908-hdi-fap-paris-2010-02.jpg
It just didn't have the Playstation logo on it. In fact, they just replaced it with Xbox 360 titles. :wink: 
http://compass.xboxlive.com/assets/ea/0c/ea0cffde-7794-46b4-8302-09fc5f63fbc3.jpg?n=PEU_9_908_09-20131213.jpg
Of course, despite being a console game, one of the stand-out features of Forza is it's powerful in-game livery creation and sharing systems, so the community took care of that pretty sharpish
http://www.xboxygen.com/IMG/jpg/Forza4-car_79_.jpg

If you look back to even Colin McRae Rally 3, despite the Martini Racing Ford Focus WRC being the title car and the only one that could be played in the games "Become Colin McRae" career mode, it doesn't actually have ANY Martini logos on it.
Martini logos in Gran Turismo are also censored in much the same way that tobacco advertising was in F1, barcode style.

So yeah, all that kind of stuff is pretty common.
Sponsors can have a say about their logos appearing/being licensed, but not something like the car itself. 
Agree with all your points there, but just to point out that the Peugeot was actually sponsored by XBox in 2009 so the 908 livery was actually accurate.

http://www.all-free-photos.com/images/lemans-2009/PI22057-hr.jpg

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Agree with all your points there, but just to point out that the Peugeot was actually sponsored by XBox in 2009 so the 908 livery was actually accurate.

http://www.all-free-photos.com/images/lemans-2009/PI22057-hr.jpg
Yes, but Forza 4 was released in late 2011. The 908 started wearing Playstation logos in 2010 (to coincide with the release of Gran Turismo 5 of course).
Forza 4 also included the 2011 version of the 908 in Matmut-Oreca livery.
Point being, they didn't have to suddenly stop using the car(s) because a sponsor had changed to a competitor over a year earlier.

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Actually, further to that conversation about the S1, I'll add a few things that I've picked up from talking licensing on WMD and Simbin. I'm no expert, but the subject intrigues me.

There are basically two types of deals series have with their teams. 

The first is where the series has rights over any manufacturer that wants to be part of it. Basically, they give up any rights to control their own brand by being involved, and the same goes for the teams, drivers and, I guess, sponsors. Occasionally you'll see an exception to this sort of deal, like one famous driver missing. But the series has the rights to sell the complete package.

This might be why we see S1 and DS3 RX versions, but not a WRC version of the Citroen (although I hope we do). If World RX works this way, the license would include the cars, but for them to be used in a different context might not be possible without their consent. The same goes for tracks; they will often hand over their rights as part of the deal with the promoter. R3E, for example, were able to include Brands Hatch Indy circuit under their DTM license, but the GP circuit would need to be negotiated separately.

I would guess that they do have this sort of deal with manufacturer-backed entries, so Audi, VW, Ford, Citroen and Peugeot would be covered most likely.

The other sort of deal is one where the promoters don't have the rights over specific cars, manufacturers or the like. This is more often the case where the cars are eligible for several series and the particular series uses specific rulesets not necessarily exclusive to them. See GT series (R3E's GT Masters license or SMS' Le Mans license for examples). The cars and liveries must then be negotiated separately.

Obviously, these can be mixed and matched too. For some series, circuits will sign over their rights in their agreement with a series, but the manufacturers wouldn't necessarily.

In summary, licensing is a minefield!

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The FIA WRC doesn't seem to have a complete blanket licensing package the way F1 does.
After all, if that was the case, then any Codies rally games after the first Colin McRae Rally wouldn't have any cars in it. It was the only one with an FIA license.
Most of the Colin McRae and DiRT rally games have existed alongside official WRC games and whilst they might not have been able to feature some of the real events, liveries or drivers, we've always managed to have the actual cars, past and present.
Big case in point is that we've already got the Fiesta, despite the lack of a FIA license, so we know that's not the case with the WRC.
Loeb Rally also has the DS3 despite the lack of one as well.
So cars-wise, it's mostly down to the manufacturers.

The good news is that as far as cars goes, getting a license for exclusivity is incredibly rare and requires substantial money.

When it comes to the DS3 WRC, the fact of the matter is that it's in both WRC5 and Seb Loeb Rally Evo, so there's no exclusivity deal going on with it's licensing at Citroen.
There seems little reason it won't be in DiRT Rally apart from Codies simply not being able to afford it, though Citroens have been a regular part of the series and, indeed, were on the cover art for Colin McRae Rally 04.

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A license where the series has the rights to the car doesn't necessarily preclude the manufacturer also possessing the rights, no. It certainly doesn't make it exclusive and DS (née Citroen) will of course maintain the rights to do with as they please.

It is entirely possible though that one of those games (WRC5)  might have the rights to the DS3 via the WRC license and one (SLRE) may have it directly from Citroen/DS themselves.

As for why PSA have decided to split DS as a separate brand, don't get me started... Stupid decision IMO. That might make it easier to get the rights to the DS3 in fairness, as they must be desperate to try and further the position of DS as a separate brand (they'll be sponsoring a Formula E team next year for the same reason).

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It was well documented in the old forums that Citroen was rather quirky about licensing.For example I clearly remember that they didnt want the DS3 in DIRT 3 but only the older C4 due tothem not wanting to release specific info about their current car.You may also remember that in CMR 04 Xsara didnt have the proper 2003 livery as was the standard with all Colin McRae's cars.

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I guess Porsche (another can of worms) just didn't want the hassle and made EA the broker for their license.  


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gfRally said:
I guess Porsche (another can of worms) just didn't want the hassle and made EA the broker for their license.  


Extract from a post I started writing about 'missing' manufacturers, I'll post the rest tomorrow:

We all know the deal with EA holding back Porsche’s license, and even some of the biggest companies struggle to get hold of the IP. With their position in rallying not amongst the biggest names, there’s every chance CM haven’t even considered this one to any great extent. There are a lot of RUF equivalents and maybe this could be an option for future inclusion, but I wouldn’t count on it. The EA stranglehold on the license is supposedly ending next year, but it remains to be seen what Porsche’s policy will be.

To be honest, I loved the number of Porsches rallying in Ypres Historic, so I had been researching old RUF models over the weekend and can't help but notice how well the 1978 RUF SCR would make a great stand-in for the late 1970s 911 SCs.

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macebig said:
It was well documented in the old forums that Citroen was rather quirky about licensing.For example I clearly remember that they didnt want the DS3 in DIRT 3 but only the older C4 due tothem not wanting to release specific info about their current car.You may also remember that in CMR 04 Xsara didnt have the proper 2003 livery as was the standard with all Colin McRae's cars.
Which is fair enough, but saying as it's already going to be in two other games, that alone is unlikely to be the case now, especially after the RX version has gotten in. Be positive! :smile: 
The road going versions of the DS3 are also quite common in other games since DiRT3 (over 4 years ago, remember!).

Liveries are always a quirky thing, that's not particularly unusual, I wouldn't read a whole lot into that.
Apart from licensing issues there are almost certainly legal issues in regard to things like tobacco advertising which will never be a part of any official release. Something which was very plain to see with the classic cars in F1 2013.
Alcohol advertising is also the most likely reason why the Ford Focus WRC in CMR2 and 3 is missing the Martini logo despite being Colin's car and, indeed, the logo is also missing from the Williams F1 cars in F1 2014 and will almost certainly still be missing in F1 2015.
Same applies for the Kingfisher logo on Force India.
(Funnily enough and as an aside, the Martini logo and Martini Racing banners were completely legible in Sega Rally and Sega Rally 2, despite the low resolutions involved. More innocent times though. Sega Rally was one of, if not the, first racing games to actually have officially licensed and recognisable racing cars and liveries)

Regards CMR04, Total may have been a part of that. They were the key sponsor for the Xsara and it's livery. The car lacks any Total logos and I don't recall seeing any in the game at all. Since they can claim to own "Total Blue", that can have a huge impact on a facsimile of a livery.
Michelin and Magneti Marelli logos were still present though, so yeah, that was probably a complicated one.
That takes us back to the fact that even recognisable car liveries in many games still tend to be missing a number of key sponsors.

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Lord help us all, when they begin (I mean seriously) to view energy drinks the same as alcohol/tobacco

blah in the future it will be all electric cars sponsored by Perrie water :neutral: 

All Codies needs to do is get us the car licenses, mod community will take car of liveries, hope in the end DR will support steam workshop for this reason.


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Hello all!

I see there's an expectation of a report :O :tongue: This week I''ll try to put up some photos and tell the story of my trip. Long story short is that it all was simply amazing and I'm not sure any other motorsport weekend will ever top this one!

When it comes to DiRT Rally Gossip I could share there probably isn't a lot of it... I've arrived on Saturday, which was the day after the team had many of the RX drivers come over to the tent to sample the game. I think there will be a YouTube clip from FIA World RX showing the competition between drivers and with an interview with Paul.

It was clear that they loved the game and how Holjes and RX was represented. Not knowing the track made it difficult for me and the RX cars are very different to drive than anything else in DiRT Rally.

Holjes track in the game is very, very close to the real life version. The crests and undulations require the player to really take good lines through the bends and rotate the car effectively. It looked great and was great fun to drive.

I was not around when the drivers were trying the game, but @KickUp told me they were up to speed very quickly and were able to use their talent and skill to set really good race times. I've had four or so attempts at a 3 lap race with a joker and made the mistake of trying to push too early. The drivers were building up their pace, used the track knowledge and car characterstics to set good times (Bakkerud had 2:06, while the best I could manage was about 2:11 with some mistakes).

I'll have to check with @KickUp whether I can say what the feedback was from the drivers, but overall they felt it was very close to what they would expect. The tweaks, which will be made based on the feedback, require some car set up changes but nothing major.

Everyone can see their faces smiling in the pics - they enjoyed it a lot. Same can be said for general public and cross-kart kids who had a go at the game. @justbiglee had a brilliant idea of giving away DiRT Rally t-shirts - over the weekend we could see plenty of walking ads for DR. Also, RX trailer video was a part of the loop on the jumbo screens. People are excited for it now :)

Team from FIA World RX and IMG were also very happy how it all turned out and were very interested in finding out what the plans are and what the feedback was. They clearly want this to work out as this partnership has the potential to grow both parties :)

With regards to the real life racing event the noise from 6 Supercars ready for launch is unbeliveably terrifying! The TV does not do it justice I think.
It's like six super scary beasts with slightly different sounds spit out fire and VERY loud bangs (more like gun fire!).
Once the cars are lined up for the start the Swedish commentator shouts: 'Ready to race!' and this funny tune gets played out as the cars rocket forward! Then usually some rubbin occurs and the commentator reacts in a hillarious way screaming 'Aj aj aj' 'Oj oj oj'  :D


The atmosphere at Holjes is fantastic and some other day I'll write a bit on how positively mad the fans over there are. I've got to experience the Happy Street at night - :O :O :O

I can't thank @justbiglee and @KickUp enough for letting me tag along, ask too many questions, talk way too much and get to try the RX update so early on. I've had an amazing weekend with great company, got to meet even more great people and exchange words with fantastic and down-to-earth drivers. Oj, oj, oj!

(I've got in-laws visiting this week, but one day I'll upload photos and some videos - here's what's out there now)

https://youtu.be/F5O0BTGnCZg

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BrySkye said:
macebig said:
It was well documented in the old forums that Citroen was rather quirky about licensing.For example I clearly remember that they didnt want the DS3 in DIRT 3 but only the older C4 due tothem not wanting to release specific info about their current car.You may also remember that in CMR 04 Xsara didnt have the proper 2003 livery as was the standard with all Colin McRae's cars.
Which is fair enough, but saying as it's already going to be in two other games, that alone is unlikely to be the case now, especially after the RX version has gotten in. Be positive! :smile: 
The road going versions of the DS3 are also quite common in other games since DiRT3 (over 4 years ago, remember!).

Liveries are always a quirky thing, that's not particularly unusual, I wouldn't read a whole lot into that.
Apart from licensing issues there are almost certainly legal issues in regard to things like tobacco advertising which will never be a part of any official release. Something which was very plain to see with the classic cars in F1 2013.
Alcohol advertising is also the most likely reason why the Ford Focus WRC in CMR2 and 3 is missing the Martini logo despite being Colin's car and, indeed, the logo is also missing from the Williams F1 cars in F1 2014 and will almost certainly still be missing in F1 2015.
Same applies for the Kingfisher logo on Force India.
(Funnily enough and as an aside, the Martini logo and Martini Racing banners were completely legible in Sega Rally and Sega Rally 2, despite the low resolutions involved. More innocent times though. Sega Rally was one of, if not the, first racing games to actually have officially licensed and recognisable racing cars and liveries)

Regards CMR04, Total may have been a part of that. They were the key sponsor for the Xsara and it's livery. The car lacks any Total logos and I don't recall seeing any in the game at all. Since they can claim to own "Total Blue", that can have a huge impact on a facsimile of a livery.
Michelin and Magneti Marelli logos were still present though, so yeah, that was probably a complicated one.
That takes us back to the fact that even recognisable car liveries in many games still tend to be missing a number of key sponsors.

Two small observations.
1)Only the official WRC game will have the 2015-spec DS3.From the previews SLRE will include the 2013 car.
2)What the CMR04 Xsara was missing were Telefonica-Movistar logos(a spanish phone carrier).Weirdly they were sponsoring Ford during the previous two games and there wasnt any problem for them appearing predominably in the the cover.So we can only assume that Citroen didnt want the proper livery in CMR04.

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Hello all!

I see there's an expectation of a report :O :tongue: This week I''ll try to put up some photos and tell the story of my trip. Long story short is that it all was simply amazing and I'm not sure any other motorsport weekend will ever top this one!

When it comes to DiRT Rally Gossip I could share there probably isn't a lot of it... I've arrived on Saturday, which was the day after the team had many of the RX drivers come over to the tent to sample the game. I think there will be a YouTube clip from FIA World RX showing the competition between drivers and with an interview with Paul.

It was clear that they loved the game and how Holjes and RX was represented. Not knowing the track made it difficult for me and the RX cars are very different to drive than anything else in DiRT Rally.

Holjes track in the game is very, very close to the real life version. The crests and undulations require the player to really take good lines through the bends and rotate the car effectively. It looked great and was great fun to drive.

I was not around when the drivers were trying the game, but @KickUp told me they were up to speed very quickly and were able to use their talent and skill to set really good race times. I've had four or so attempts at a 3 lap race with a joker and made the mistake of trying to push too early. The drivers were building up their pace, used the track knowledge and car characterstics to set good times (Bakkerud had 2:06, while the best I could manage was about 2:11 with some mistakes).

I'll have to check with @KickUp whether I can say what the feedback was from the drivers, but overall they felt it was very close to what they would expect. The tweaks, which will be made based on the feedback, require some car set up changes but nothing major.

Everyone can see their faces smiling in the pics - they enjoyed it a lot. Same can be said for general public and cross-kart kids who had a go at the game. @justbiglee had a brilliant idea of giving away DiRT Rally t-shirts - over the weekend we could see plenty of walking ads for DR. Also, RX trailer video was a part of the loop on the jumbo screens. People are excited for it now :)

Team from FIA World RX and IMG were also very happy how it all turned out and were very interested in finding out what the plans are and what the feedback was. They clearly want this to work out as this partnership has the potential to grow both parties :)

With regards to the real life racing event the noise from 6 Supercars ready for launch is unbeliveably terrifying! The TV does not do it justice I think.
It's like six super scary beasts with slightly different sounds spit out fire and VERY load bangs (more like gun fire!).
Once the cars are lined up for the start the Swedish commentator shouts: 'Ready to race!' and this funny tune gets played out as the cars rocket forward! Then usually some rubbin occurs and the commentator reacts in a hillarious way screaming 'Aj aj aj' 'Oj oj oj'  :D


The atmosphere at Holjes is fantastic and some other day I'll write a bit on how positively mad the fans over there are. I've got to experience the Happy Street at night - :O :O :O

I can't thank @justbiglee and @KickUp enough for letting me tag along, ask too many questions, talk way too much and get to try the RX update so early on. I've had an amazing weekend with great company, got to meet even more great people and exchange words with fantastic and down-to-earth drivers. Oj, oj, oj!

(I've got in-laws visiting this week, but one day I'll upload photos and some videos - here's what's out there now)

https://youtu.be/F5O0BTGnCZg

Sounds great! The only thing I'm a bit worried about is that Bakkerud's best time IRL was 02:58.952, while 2.06 in game? That's not just slightly off the real times. If the track itself is almost spot on, then the cars surely need some tweaking to be slower.

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bogani said:
 

Sounds great! The only thing I'm a bit worried about is that Bakkerud's best time IRL was 02:58.952, while 2.06 in game? That's not just slightly off the real times. If the track itself is almost spot on, then the cars surely need some tweaking to be slower.

The race the drivers attempted was 3 laps long, with one of these laps being with joker. The 2:58 time is for a 4 lap race.

The team is keen to have the lap times close to real life results and will tweak various things to make it as close as possible to real life performance. However, the in-game track may not have the same level of dirtiness as the real life conditions so the game right now is a bit quicker.

The speeds the cars were reaching in the game seemed accurate and those RX Supercars are really pulling!

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Gossip material :O Did anyone else notice that the rallycross pack moved from July to August? :O
I think we get in AUgust one big rallycross pack and Player VS Player ;-)

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bogani said:
 

Sounds great! The only thing I'm a bit worried about is that Bakkerud's best time IRL was 02:58.952, while 2.06 in game? That's not just slightly off the real times. If the track itself is almost spot on, then the cars surely need some tweaking to be slower.

The race the drivers attempted was 3 laps long, with one of these laps being with joker. The 2:58 time is for a 4 lap race.

The team is keen to have the lap times close to real life results and will tweak various things to make it as close as possible to real life performance. However, the in-game track may not have the same level of dirtiness as the real life conditions so the game right now is a bit quicker.

The speeds the cars were reaching in the game seemed accurate and those RX Supercars are really pulling!

How embarrasing for me! My worries are gone ;)

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