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12 minutes ago, chukonu said:

 

If you believe to be the fish to my bait, why bother? No need to get paranoid.

Game is 55 euro, thats 5 more than regular and also the game lacks too much to be set at full price in my opinion. I think the pricepoint on DiRT Rally contributed to it's success. DiRT 4 was also overpriced.

Codies word is not gospel, at all. I'm sure the plan is there, let us see how it pans out.

You gave up at this point, maybe you realized subconsciously you need not to sell me on the game since I already purchased it.

I am no fish 😉  But you should know you made those points to get someone to ask you about them.

So games in Euros usually cost 50?  Games in Sterling are typically 60 as are games in Dollars, annnnd, you're quibbling over the price of a coffee. Okay.

What is the game lacking to be a full priced game?  You clearly have "pennies" issues over game pricing, and that's fair, DR was an cheap early access title, until it was finished, and it was full price, that was a special condition, nothing normal there.

Dirt 4 was another regularly priced game, with regular amount of content, our feelings over the quality of that content could decide if it would be considered overpriced, sure.

 

Codies word is not gospel, though i'm wondering why you think they won't carry through with the service plan they announced this game would have.  I'm hoping it pans out well.

 

I think you'll find i wrote why i gave up that last point, i wrote it down, apparently you gave up on your own sentence and never got to the end of mine.

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4 hours ago, Accro2008 said:

@ChristinaMc  No sé dónde publicarlo, pero el ancho del C3 r5 es incorrecto. (mira las ruedas, especialmente el eje trasero)

Juego

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Irl

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¡Omg!

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2 minutes ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

I am no fish 😉  But you should know you made those points to get someone to ask you about them.

So games in Euros usually cost 50?  Games in Sterling are typically 60 as are games in Dollars, annnnd, you're quibbling over the price of a coffee. Okay.

What is the game lacking to be a full priced game?  You clearly have "pennies" issues over game pricing, and that's fair, DR was an cheap early access title, until it was finished, and it was full price, that was a special condition, nothing normal there.

Dirt 4 was another regularly priced game, with regular amount of content, our feelings over the quality of that content could decide if it would be considered overpriced, sure.

 

Codies word is not gospel, though i'm wondering why you think they won't carry through with the service plan they announced this game would have.  I'm hoping it pans out well.

 

I think you'll find i wrote why i gave up that last point, i wrote it down, apparently you gave up on your own sentence and never got to the end of mine.

I didn't write anything to cause anyone to reply to them, as I've already said in my last post. No need to continue on it if you can't prove it, it's just a low blow - try and not get personal if you can.

10% is a lot and your coffees are overpriced. I don't care that you aren't personally bothered about the price, this was never my point as I, clearly, am not bothered about it either. The point is that it's not a normal price and that I disagree that it has a normal amount of content. I've bought a lot more for a lot less.

Codies do not have a good track record supporting their games. A very real and rational consideration. I hope reiterating what I've already said clears this up for you.

Considering your last comment, I find my own sentence readable. What more do you want me to say? You didn't say anything about it other than that you didn't bother.

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1 hour ago, versedi said:

All right, I think no one asked the most important question yet :

 

Can you do donuts this time?

Yeee...know... I don't know. Lemme check.

 

1 hour ago, P308R said:

Rant incoming.....

What I find even worse is that recycled content sold for a full price seasonpass. I got pretty bitter after the reveal to be taken for an absolute fool by this DLC policy. I know all the 'don't want , don't buy' phrase so don't sort that one. The game is being sold for a ridiculous price, seen the base content and the hugely expensive addon for recycled stuff. The game may be fun and great to play but it doesn't take away the huge lack of base content. 12 unique stages, that is 2 per country. But oh no wait, we add 3 rallies from previous game for which you have to pay once more! Simply to get rally content up to a respectable amount. I don't appreciate it and I don't want to support this kind of policy. I know the hard work many of the employees have put in but the way this is managed from upperhand is far from correct. I call them EA practices!

As much as I want that DS21, I'll sitt this one out until there is a big sale! Shouldn't be too long seen how it went with OnRush...

Then to remember I had the Deluxe version on pre-order. I vote with my wallet and it will stay closed firmly.

Would also be nice to read some more objective posts here. Many are hyping this game without seriously looking to the fundamental problems at hand (content, pivot, tarmac, old engine, DLC policy, leagues etc). Same pattern was seen for D4 and we all know how that went.....

Rant over ...

I'm also not huge on the DLC practice, but everyone else here seems to love the idea for some unfathomable reason. I will retort by saying "Literally every other PC racing game." They all have por nada content and charge $3/car or $15/track. That's somehow okay, and people will buy Assetto Corsa Competizione on early access based on hopes and dreams. The first game doesn't have much to it and the DLC's aren't particularly cheap either.

Somehow people get it in their heads that this is good business practice and keeps the game alive, but I don't particularly buy it and don't like the games as a service plan. Look at Raceroom, I'd love to be able to pay $60 and get at least a good chunk of stuff, but everything is so damn fragmented you can't do that, and many packs overlap so you kind of just buy the same stuff.

That being said, Onrush was a significantly different style of game and it sucks that CM basically closed them down after 1 game, but it probably would've been much better sales if they made it a more conventional racer. Unfortunately the pretty graphics and gimmicky race types wasn't enough to sustain interest.

We all also constantly complain about how old the Ego engine is, and I was really hoping the Onrush guys would at least make a new game engine for the studio, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Even though what they did make was much more impressive.

1 hour ago, blaugranamarti said:

I too think that putting the stages from Dirt Rally on a paid DLC is a bit questionable, to the point I'm considering not buying the game because I feel I shouldn't support it. It seems the base game is already a bit short on stages, and then the solution to that is selling recycled content as DLC? Of course there is some work needed to retexture the stages, but it's much less than for creating new content. In my opinion the way to go when recycling content is how Hitman 2 did it, where you have the Hitman 1 levels for free if you own it and as paid DLC if you don't.

Then on top of that, the tarmac handling feels really unconvincing on the videos I've seen, really far behind from what any of the current track racing sims have. Also, no stages on snow of ice seems like a step back from the previous game, but of course you can pay extra to have those back (quite literally in this case, since they are the exact same stages).

As a tester I'm not sure how much I can say. We're in chats about the physics. Overall it is better than D4, which was itself some slight improvements over DR in a few areas, most notably the lunar jumps and bizarre aero was fixed. But yeah, tarmac is weird. And as a personal note, my FFB on my Fanatec isn't what I'd consider very good, but the other guys aren't complaining and I've already mentioned it to the devs.

We haven't tried the remade versions of old tracks yet, and as such I can't attest to how much work went into it, but.. DR was pretty ugly and barren off track. So there's new textures for sure, but everything else changes too. There's the new degradation system which is a lot more noticeable than you'd think, which takes reworking of the entire ground surface, not just a retexture. Lighting changes are going to be put in place, new trackside objects, trees and bushes need to be remade.. It's certainly a lot more than a retexture like the recent Burnout Paradise Remastered. That's a full price texture mod on PC, but hey, people keep buying the 17 remakes and remasters of Skyrim, so I don't know where to stand on that. It's a lot more like they have the guideline already in place to follow, but everything else needs to be remade.

You probably don't play Forza, but when Forza 5 came out with the new Xbox One, it had something like 200 cars, down from the 600 or so on Forza 4, because they went through and started remodelling all the cars for the next generation. It's a lot more work than just a retexture, and if it somehow does come out as just a retexture I'll be the first to grab the torch and pitchforks since I hate that kind of ****. I don't know how exactly the Hitman 1-2 levels work, but unless they completely rebuilt the entire stages and mechanics of them, I'm inclined to say it's probably more of just a port. Maybe with textures, I don't know.

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getting hyped for this now. the game probably won't be mm perfect(what game is) and the dlc plan might put a few penny grabbers off but i think people should just be grateful were getting a new rally sim full stop.    

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I'd like to point out that I am an official tester. Also, I still don't love the FFB and this was my firs...ourth run. Also;

Image result for where we're going we don't need roads

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@KevM well compared to DiRT4 obviously. It was impossible there. Also with an AWD, not RWD.

 

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10 hours ago, versedi said:

All right, I think no one asked the most important question yet :

 

Can you do donuts this time?

Aww yiz! 

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Shall we go back to speculation? What do you guys think is in stock for the future seasons? I'm thinking S2 will look something like this:

  • 3x RX track
  • 4x group b rallycross from DiRT4
  • Group B Porsche 911
  • Lancia 037
  • Historical liveries for both of them

Would be pretty incredible and complete the game for me.

S3 then could look something like this:

  • 2001 Subaru
  • 2001 Focus
  • F2 class Ibiza
  • Pug 306 maxi
  • R5 Hyundai
  • ...Abarth Spyder?
  • Powys rally
  • Greece rally
  • Finland rally (now with slightly less jumps)
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1 minute ago, chukonu said:

Shall we go back to speculation? What do you guys think is in stock for the future seasons? I'm thinking S2 will look something like this:

  • 3x RX track
  • 4x group b rallycross from DiRT4
  • Group B Porsche 911 
  • Lancia 037
  • Historical liveries for both of them

Would be pretty incredible and complete the game for me.

S3 then could look something like this:

  • 2001 Subaru
  • 2001 Focus
  • F2 class Ibiza
  • Pug 306 maxi
  • R5 Hyundai
  • ...Abarth Spyder?
  • Powys rally
  • Greece rally
  • Finland rally (now with slightly less jumps)

personally i don't care that much about kitcars, i would like "unofficial" 2018 wrc cars if it's possible

i'm sure finland will be great with new phisics,can't wait 😋

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I've always really loved the kitcars. How they struggle with all their might in the mud, so cute.

I was actually hoping they'd bring more kitcars for this game like the megane maxi or even Saxo kitcar. Theres a lot to choose from really.

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14 hours ago, TheFlyingTuga said:

Don't try to get them excuses. Yeah, one of the fast players come to the foruns and said D4 was the best thing under the sun... turns out... it was marketing! And I do respect the hell out of him, since he is faster than me hahahaha

Anyway, gutted for piggy there. I would gladly borrow you my G27 since it's continuing to gather dust... and so will I xD

Sure, he might have jumped the gun a little but in his defence, if you go from Dirt Rally straight to Dirtfish in Dirt 4, yeah, I also thought 'Yup, this feels better than DR, no doubt' 

But then I hit the stages.. :classic_blink:

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10 hours ago, tbtstt said:

I would say - slightly negative post incoming - that, although I think all the beta testers are deserving of early access (apart from @SirPhilMcKraken), it has been frustrating to see a number of You Tube channels with early access when they are a bit poop (and/or seemingly a bit clueless about) driving games... 

...guess that's how promotion works these days though! 

 

giphy.gif

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8 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Yeee...know... I don't know. Lemme check.

 

I'm also not huge on the DLC practice, but everyone else here seems to love the idea for some unfathomable reason. I will retort by saying "Literally every other PC racing game." They all have por nada content and charge $3/car or $15/track. That's somehow okay, and people will buy Assetto Corsa Competizione on early access based on hopes and dreams. The first game doesn't have much to it and the DLC's aren't particularly cheap either.

Somehow people get it in their heads that this is good business practice and keeps the game alive, but I don't particularly buy it and don't like the games as a service plan. Look at Raceroom, I'd love to be able to pay $60 and get at least a good chunk of stuff, but everything is so damn fragmented you can't do that, and many packs overlap so you kind of just buy the same stuff.

That being said, Onrush was a significantly different style of game and it sucks that CM basically closed them down after 1 game, but it probably would've been much better sales if they made it a more conventional racer. Unfortunately the pretty graphics and gimmicky race types wasn't enough to sustain interest.

We all also constantly complain about how old the Ego engine is, and I was really hoping the Onrush guys would at least make a new game engine for the studio, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Even though what they did make was much more impressive.

As a tester I'm not sure how much I can say. We're in chats about the physics. Overall it is better than D4, which was itself some slight improvements over DR in a few areas, most notably the lunar jumps and bizarre aero was fixed. But yeah, tarmac is weird. And as a personal note, my FFB on my Fanatec isn't what I'd consider very good, but the other guys aren't complaining and I've already mentioned it to the devs.

We haven't tried the remade versions of old tracks yet, and as such I can't attest to how much work went into it, but.. DR was pretty ugly and barren off track. So there's new textures for sure, but everything else changes too. There's the new degradation system which is a lot more noticeable than you'd think, which takes reworking of the entire ground surface, not just a retexture. Lighting changes are going to be put in place, new trackside objects, trees and bushes need to be remade.. It's certainly a lot more than a retexture like the recent Burnout Paradise Remastered. That's a full price texture mod on PC, but hey, people keep buying the 17 remakes and remasters of Skyrim, so I don't know where to stand on that. It's a lot more like they have the guideline already in place to follow, but everything else needs to be remade.

You probably don't play Forza, but when Forza 5 came out with the new Xbox One, it had something like 200 cars, down from the 600 or so on Forza 4, because they went through and started remodelling all the cars for the next generation. It's a lot more work than just a retexture, and if it somehow does come out as just a retexture I'll be the first to grab the torch and pitchforks since I hate that kind of ****. I don't know how exactly the Hitman 1-2 levels work, but unless they completely rebuilt the entire stages and mechanics of them, I'm inclined to say it's probably more of just a port. Maybe with textures, I don't know.

Thank you for this down to earth response!

 

About the DLC: I have no problem with old tracks making a return to DIRT RALLY 2.0 but the problem I have that it is almost all old content they resell. If old content was sold and 1 or 2 additional longstages were included, I wouldn't feel like I am feeling right now. All you get in the first season are 2 new cars. Then for the second season general thought is some WRX content but if it sells well enough there should be a season 3 and 4 which probably will again be OLD content (Wales, Finland and probably Greece). Latter speculation on my side.  This is a pattern I simply don't appreciate at all from their side. Where is the NEW stuff? How about expanding the additional locations? How about really fixing the handling issues the game has been plagued with for a long time? They have so much expertise in house but only the DIRT game doesn't get it right. You simply ask: How on earth is this possible? Also the whole pivot-thing is bugging the hell out of me. The F1 game got it solved with the EGO engine so why the DIRT game can't?

Then we have the pricing. It is steep for what you get. The game would be much better placed at a €39,99 instead of a €49,99. It is for example what AC (original) did on release and that game had more content to begin with than Dirt Rally 2.0.

All in all this development has left a very bad taste in my mouth and I simply don't want to support that kind of practices. Once again, I would have been very happy if the old content was released with additional stages. I would have actually added value for money. Situation now just feels like a cashgrab for early deluxe version owners. If bought digital €89. Just let us think about that...€89 euros!

 

Another example: Take "Indy" developer Bigmoon Entertainment. They have released Dakar '18 as their first racing title. A small studio with passionate people which we probably find as well at Codies. However this little portugese studio has had an amazing postlaunch support, has recently released free DLC with 8 additional stages which take around 30 to 60 minutes to complete each. The base game is already huge to begin with 14 stages which take also 30 to 60 minutes to complete. Makes you wonder why a well known studio like Codemasters has such a customer unfriendly approach which looks more and more like EA practices. Please Codies, I don't ask you to give stuff away for free but come on, don't take your customers for plain stupid.

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10 hours ago, tbtstt said:

I would say - slightly negative post incoming - that, although I think all the beta testers are deserving of early access (apart from @SirPhilMcKraken), it has been frustrating to see a number of You Tube channels with early access when they are a bit poop (and/or seemingly a bit clueless about) driving games... 

...guess that's how promotion works these days though! 

This game is pretty punishing, which is why I try to put in a few practice runs of a stage before recording a proper run :classic_happy:

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@tbtstt unfortunately you will never know how some people will drive once you give them the game, they may not have the hundreds of hours that we (not the testers, main community) have.

To whoever said we were showing off, I was streaming on Monday evening and specifically asked for requests in the Twitch chat and our discord, I don't have a Twitch following nor do I care about having one so it was purely to help people see what they wanted to see.

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3 minutes ago, SirPhilMcKraken said:

@tbtstt unfortunately you will never know how some people will drive once you give them the game, they may not have the hundreds of hours that we (not the testers, main community) have.

To whoever said we were showing off, I was streaming on Monday evening and specifically asked for requests in the Twitch chat and our discord, I don't have a Twitch following nor do I care about having one so it was purely to help people see what they wanted to see.

Don't try and defend yourself now, you're an elitist, part of the bourgeoisie and a scourge on this community.

 

Vive le Rèvolution! 

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1 minute ago, Rallystu2 said:

Don't try and defend yourself now, you're an elitist, part of the bourgeoisie and a scourge on this community.

 

Vive le Rèvolution! 

u jelly.

Edited by SirPhilMcKraken
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25 minutes ago, P308R said:

Thank you for this down to earth response!

 

About the DLC: I have no problem with old tracks making a return to DIRT RALLY 2.0 but the problem I have that it is almost all old content they resell. If old content was sold and 1 or 2 additional longstages were included, I wouldn't feel like I am feeling right now. All you get in the first season are 2 new cars. Then for the second season general thought is some WRX content but if it sells well enough there should be a season 3 and 4 which probably will again be OLD content (Wales, Finland and probably Greece). Latter speculation on my side.  This is a pattern I simply don't appreciate at all from their side. Where is the NEW stuff? How about expanding the additional locations? How about really fixing the handling issues the game has been plagued with for a long time? They have so much expertise in house but only the DIRT game doesn't get it right. You simply ask: How on earth is this possible? Also the whole pivot-thing is bugging the hell out of me. The F1 game got it solved with the EGO engine so why the DIRT game can't?

Then we have the pricing. It is steep for what you get. The game would be much better placed at a €39,99 instead of a €49,99. It is for example what AC (original) did on release and that game had more content to begin with than Dirt Rally 2.0.

All in all this development has left a very bad taste in my mouth and I simply don't want to support that kind of practices. Once again, I would have been very happy if the old content was released with additional stages. I would have actually added value for money. Situation now just feels like a cashgrab for early deluxe version owners. If bought digital €89. Just let us think about that...€89 euros!

 

Another example: Take "Indy" developer Bigmoon Entertainment. They have released Dakar '18 as their first racing title. A small studio with passionate people which we probably find as well at Codies. However this little portugese studio has had an amazing postlaunch support, has recently released free DLC with 8 additional stages which take around 30 to 60 minutes to complete each. The base game is already huge to begin with 14 stages which take also 30 to 60 minutes to complete. Makes you wonder why a well known studio like Codemasters has such a customer unfriendly approach which looks more and more like EA practices. Please Codies, I don't ask you to give stuff away for free but come on, don't take your customers for plain stupid.

The new content is in the base game. They've made as much new content as they possibly could with the staff and budget they have been given.

I would have loved additional stages for the old locations, but we wouldn't be getting those locations for quite some time if that was the case. 

 

Comparing to Dakar seems slightly odd. I'm guessing they have a very different approach when they create these 'stages' as they are mostly open areas. I'm assuming it's much more time effective than creating stages in something like the Dirt franchise. 

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Incredible What Some people think. 

Like no one is allowed to bugtest a game before Release because it's unfair for you. (and i quote, makes you a "peasant"??) 

I just hope these guys are trolls

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29 minutes ago, paint21 said:

Incredible What Some people think. 

Like no one is allowed to bugtest a game before Release because it's unfair for you. (and i quote, makes you a "peasant"??) 

I just hope these guys are trolls

I believe there's a video coming today. A DiRT show. Which will be nice.

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18 hours ago, carpa said:

@urgaffel doing too good of a job there, when you follow another car very closely all you can see is dust. Might be a bit of a problem when you don't know the circuit like me... 

The solution is to be in front 😉

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the primary thing i want to feel is that you now can stop being afraid that  your car will sended to the moon if you slightly touch a roadbank like dr1 wales , because correct car weight now  😍😍😍

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To the DLC ranting:

I understand all your points and your motives. I've been there as well in the past, specially on EA games, Activision, and more recently Blizzard on WoW (bought by Activision) with game butchering. I even hate the term "DLC", as I'm from a time that extra content for games were called Expansions, or Expansion Packs and usually those brought overall more content than today's standard DLC deliveries.

However, there are a few points to consider:

DiRT Rally 2.0 and the DiRT franchise overall, or any rally game overall doesn't sell 7.1 million copies like Battlefield, which EA has said it was insufficient in a sales point of view. This is quite a small market, despite being growing over the years. GIven the amount of investment and quality put into a game like this (graphics, car licensing, advanced physics engine, level design), it is expected nowadays that a rally game might not come with 14 rallies at launch.

Sure we could argue here about Milestone and Kylotton, but compare the quality of these aspects I just refered and come to a conclusion. It's much easier to design a bland stage, with barely any bumps and any kind of obstacles, even I can do it. It's much easier to simply dump a basic physics engine and just tweak it here and there. And it's much easier when you have support from legal entities such as FIA to include content.

This is not the case here. This game has always had to fight against all of these obstacles and even then it managed to come with a superior product over its rivals (I think rivals is a bit too much, they aren't even near the place to be considered as rivals, let's call it alternatives). Much of this discussion around this topic is due to DiRT4's existence and the delusional effect it had on people.

While I agree and I was expecting for the DLC to bring 1 new rally instead of "just" 3 old ones, bear in mind that the launch game contains only NEW rallies, and they are not 3, not 4, not 5, SIX. That equals DiRT Rally's content point of view, after its long Early Access process. They had several ways of approaching this, and one of those was to launch a game with new content and only then return some old favourites and in my opinion this was the most wisest choice, because you can be sure it would be worse (and the ranting would be bigger) if they had included rallies from the first game at launch again.

The return of DiRT Rally's rallies makes sense, and it's not a bad thing at all. One can argue that it's the same stages everyone knows about, and myself I would like to see all of these rallies to have at least 1 extra long stage to explore. But right now it's not coming, who knows what could happen in the future? Plus, it's not just a remaster, the surface degradation takes its stake in development and brings a whole new random factor here, the tyre compounds will have a big play in here (specially in Monte) and there's also one important thing that people are forgetting:

We can, for the first time in a long time, setup a rally championship longer than 6 events, with DLC1 making it a maximum of 9 rallies, which is great and is what many people since DR1 have been asking about. If we someday see the other 3 rallies from DR1 added, we'll be able to setup an entire championship of 12 high quality rallies, which is pretty close to real life WRC standards. No matter how good you know the stages, it will be very hard for you to master all 12 events and win them all, think about that for a minute. And who knows in the future we can even get a few extra new rallies, favourites like Corsica, Portugal, etc.

The price itself for the game is fair to be honest, and the difference asked for the Deluxe is a bargain, a sale, an opportunity. Remember this isn't the type of game that sells millions of copies compared to other big markets and if it's true we want this game to expand, we need to help each other by supporting it. Everyone has their own right to decide wether they want to support it or not, I will, and you can be sure I will be in the front line to critique eventual flaws that need to be fixed, or tweaks that need to be done.

 

Most importantly, I think everyone who plays this game will have a blast doing it, and in contrary to the other iterations, we have something to look forward to because the content doesn't end here.

 

Edited by Riggs
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