DiRTy Gossip

[toninus 126]

3 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Every single sponsor needs to give approval, not only on the liveries but on any official screenshots we produce for promotion.

I hope at least some cool D+ liveries for all cars, as there's no sponsor on them.
The Datsun only has one skin...

The skin editor from the former games was nice too. At least it had some cool shapes and colors.

Edited August 10 by toninus

[JorritVD 700]

8 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Every single sponsor needs to give approval, not only on the liveries but on any official screenshots we produce for promotion.

I think Codies is really to strict on this.

- F.e. if a sponsor sponsors a WRX team he agrees the terms of it with the team. Than the team (and IMG) is in charge for the livery and further promotion of the livery and logo. I don’t see IMG getting a license of every logo to get it in their live-streams. In other words if a sponsor agrees to be a sponsor and gets his logo on the car it will be promoted in products of the series, so series promotion material, live streams and games. That is also a reason why they became sponsor. If they not want to be in live streams or games, than they should not sponsor. It is common sense even in legal terms.

- For the cars and RX tracks I can imagine additional approval and licensing is needed. For rally locations I have also the feeling official licensing is not needed, because it are public locations, except if you use official names and logos that is also used by promoters of that rally.

for the standalone real liveries I can also understand additional licensing is needed for a company and that a livery needs to get approved. Because I can also understand that or Ford or Martini don’t want to be associated anymore with racing or rally.

 

once again I say how RaceRoom handles new liveries. You come there with the livery, photos and logos of company. They say the price and you agree with the price. They create it and show it for approval. Approval given and it comes in the game. No licensing for every single logo. Ok maybe the official number plates are not on the car if the logo of the series is in it. But even if Gran Turismo is sponsor, than they put that logo on it without a problem. 

Edit: also not make really sense if need licensing for official screenshots for promotion when community non licensed screenshots are also promoted by the official channels.

Edited August 10 by JorritVD

[chukonu 430]

Not sure but I think Codies got burned before by being a little less strict in acquiring liveries.

[MattyH1812 242]

Way I see it is money they've got from people buying the deluxe edition should be used to acquire livery licenses, and then those liveries are then released to deluxe edition owners. Putting money back into the game to improve the experience for people who've paid the extra money

[tonzboher 109]

8 hours ago, ebarbs27 said:

Just out of interest, how do the liveries work if you weren't to include a sponsor who didn't give their consent? In that photo, Polyphony haven't included the Valvoline logo that's on the real car but are still able to use the rest of the livery.

Just came across my mind because the DLC Porsche is the only car to have the classic blue/gold/red livery minus the Rothmans logos. Is it a case of acquiring the actual colour scheme and then tackling the sponsors or are they all tied in to one?

 

And that new official livery that was added for the Stratos does not have chequered flag on it, couldn’t official liveries be added and just don’t include any sponsors on it that Codemasters couldn’t get, as you said there are no sponsors on the Porsche but you still know it’s the rothmans Porsche!

[tonzboher 109]

6 hours ago, toninus said:

I hope at least some cool D+ liveries for all cars, as there's no sponsor on them.
The Datsun only has one skin...

The skin editor from the former games was nice too. At least it had some cool shapes and colors.

Hope they fix the D+ liveries we have previously got to make them similar to the last batch we got, they were a huge improvement. Livery editor was the best part of D4

[ebarbs27 78]

The real car has a "Spike" logo on the front wing and spoiler which isn't present in game. #justsaying 😉

By the way, how good does that Impreza look? I probably slightly prefer the 97-00 model but this one's a very close 2nd

Edited August 10 by ebarbs27

[tonzboher 109]

14 minutes ago, ebarbs27 said:

The real car has a "Spike" logo on the front wing and spoiler which isn't present in game. #justsaying 😉

By the way, how good does that Impreza look? I probably slightly prefer the 97-00 model but this one's a very close 2nd

I actually knew there was something missing on the front wing therefore we know Codemasters have added liveries with some missing sponsors on them. I am all for adding the cars and rallies from dr1, because they have improved both for dr2 but at least give us something new when it comes to the cars from the old game, I don’t see how giving us some decent liveries is too much to ask. Oh and why was a livery for the evo 6 added with katsu on it, I would have taken his name off it, would look better without it or give us a plain red livery for a evo 6 and all the Subaru’s need plain blue liveries also .

Edited August 10 by tonzboher

[JorritVD 700]

Maybe an example which @PJTierney could answer

What if the following STI Subaru RallyCross livery would be added to the game on the Subaru WRX STI RX Supercar:

  

What the team needs to do with licensing to get this livery in the game?

The following logo's are on the car:
- STI / Subaru Tecnica International (already on other cars)
- Subaru (already on other cars)
- DirtFish (already on other cars)
- Method Race Wheels (already on other cars)
- BFGoodrich (already on other cars, but could leave out or replaced if needed when it has issues with Cooper Tyres which provides tyres for ARX and WRX)
- Launch Control (only on Arai's car, but maybe could leave out)
- Vermont SportsCar (already on other cars)
- Global Rallycross (can be leaved out, just like what has been with ARX already)
- Numbers (does this need to be licensed? the ARX Impreza don't have numbers on the windows, but funny enough do have on the roof)
- Drivers (does this need to be licensed? Atko is already in game)

So what steps need to be taken than?
- Ask approval from Subaru or Subaru Motorsports USA to get this livery in the game?
- Does the logo's who already exist on other cars, again need to be licensed for this livery?
- Do the logo's who are not licensed yet, be licensied by the companies itself or does the team gives approval? (because as I said, the company already decided to sponsor/partner the team, so could expect it comes in other promotional content like a game, so why need to license that seperate, the team is responsible for this imo)
- So after the approvals, than the livery will be created
- After the livery is created, who gives approval that the livery is OK to go in the game? I guess first Codies does a quality check themselves. But after I guess the team (Subaru Motorsports USA) gives approval? It would be strange that STI, Method, DirtFish, etc. all need to give approval if the livery is correct and can go in the game.

 

-----------------

Maybe an other example, what does need to be done to get this livery in the game?

This livery has been raced by Villeneuve, Pastrana and Heikkinen. The Atko (blue accents) and Sandell (yellow accents) are already ingame. This livery could be added without driver names as an extra livery. But would extra licensing be needed to get this livery ingame if this livery is actually already in game? in my opinion only approval is needed and a quality check and approval. But from who, the team or also Subaru?

[PJTierney 2,531]

These are complicated questions and if I try and guess I’m sure Licensing will start yelling at me 😅 

[gfRally 280]

After watching some videos of the Dirtfish in game, it seems that the entire complex has been modeled, even up to the visitor parking.  It looks like the mill run rally sprint area is modeled as well, if I am seeing it correctly.  None the less what has been modeled is a great step forward from DR4 which was fun to play around with all the extras, but just didn't feel like Dirtfish anymore.

 

Hopefully at some point replay cameras will be set up for some fun hooning videos to be made - which is what i meant a few pages back by spectator cameras.  

 

I'll give Codies a ++ for adding this and giving it away for free.

 

 

EDIT: After looking at it again, and comparing the maps, It looks like the larger area isn't modeled

FROM DIRTFISH website

Google Maps of the area that is modeled:

 

and in game:

 

Still not a bad effort and really a lot to play around in.  It seems pretty accurate, even with some artistic license

Edited August 10 by gfRally

[gfRally 280]

7 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

These are complicated questions and if I try and guess I’m sure Licensing will start yelling at me 😅 

I think games like FORZA Horizon has spoiled a lot of people.  Their loose rules on user made liveries and being able to exchange them has more than likely created many headaches for the rest of the industry.  On top of that the cross platform Windows/Xbox gameplay and interchangeability.

[MattyH1812 242]

I think it's made more frustrating by the fact that other games get around it yeah, even copying the basic colour scheme without the alcohol or tobacco sponsorships, like this for example:

 

The Porsche SC RS was step in the right direction but then you've got cars like the 2007 Focus where the liveries are frankly abysmal...

Edited August 10 by MattyH1812

[cafe5150 201]

2 hours ago, gfRally said:

I think games like FORZA Horizon has spoiled a lot of people.  Their loose rules on user made liveries and being able to exchange them has more than likely created many headaches for the rest of the industry.  On top of that the cross platform Windows/Xbox gameplay and interchangeability.

In Forza the livery editor doesn't seem to be policed in regards to sponsors. Yes there are a few pages of sponsor templates which will be official and paid for by Playground but the rest are user generated ( some extremely accurate as well ). There's even some liveries on there done by Forza so yes the licensing is either very loose or sewn up a treat with a big payment ( which is unlikely given the amount of individual sponsors there are). Having said that D4 must have had a deal because there were sponsor logos you could place on the car.

Edited August 10 by cafe5150

[tbtstt 1,530]

1 hour ago, MattyH1812 said:

The Porsche SC RS was step in the right direction but then you've got cars like the 2007 Focus where the liveries are frankly abysmal...

Yeah, I thought that the style of the 911 SC RS livery was the way to go. I hope we get more like that. 

3 hours ago, ebarbs27 said:

😉

By the way, how good does that Impreza look? I probably slightly prefer the 97-00 model but this one's a very close 2nd

Slightly prefer? I mean the bugeye looks great in game, but its not even in the same league as the '97 - '00 Impreza WRCars in terms of looks! 

After that clip of CM recording audio, I am keeping everything crossed that we are getting an S4 Impreza WRCar in game. 

[Riggs 1,629]

2 hours ago, MattyH1812 said:

I think it's made more frustrating by the fact that other games get around it yeah, even copying the basic colour scheme without the alcohol or tobacco sponsorships, like this for example:

 

The Porsche SC RS was step in the right direction but then you've got cars like the 2007 Focus where the liveries are frankly abysmal...

The coming Focus 2001 could use this trick for its various Martini liveries, replacing the Martini logo with Ford like in previous CMR titles. There's also Telefonica and Movistar, but even if they dont license those it can simply be another name.

I believe getting one Martini livery for the 2001 Focus will be a good marketing sell point.

[MattyH1812 242]

50 minutes ago, Riggs said:

The coming Focus 2001 could use this trick for its various Martini liveries, replacing the Martini logo with Ford like in previous CMR titles. There's also Telefonica and Movistar, but even if they dont license those it can simply be another name.

I believe getting one Martini livery for the 2001 Focus will be a good marketing sell point.

That would be a good marketing strategy yes, unfortunately having seen the liveries already from the mulitplayer glitch there is only the white Ford testing livery, 3 "lore friendly" liveries, Simpson, Arai etc, and the standard black and white ones, nothing special at all 😞

[JorritVD 700]

Women are so poorly represented in this game, and than even they can't flush the toilets at DirtFish because the water has been turned off... 

So I hope as a compensation they will put Magda Andersson's 208 livery in the game 🙂 (and on the correct model if possible: DiRT 4 Hansen 208 😛 )

@tbtstt I hope you not mind i used your image for this 😄 

Edited August 10 by JorritVD

[RodgerDavies 753]

3 hours ago, Riggs said:

The coming Focus 2001 could use this trick for its various Martini liveries, replacing the Martini logo with Ford like in previous CMR titles. There's also Telefonica and Movistar, but even if they dont license those it can simply be another name.

I believe getting one Martini livery for the 2001 Focus will be a good marketing sell point.

I suspect that Martini have upped the 'ownership' of their brand since SLRE came out. If you try using their trademarks (colours & patterns) without permission in this day and age, no doubt some lawyers will be coming your way.

 

---

 

I think a lot of this "how do liveries work" discussion is very black & white. Some random thoughts:

- Porsche may have a deal with Philip Morris that allow them to redistribute/licence the Rothmans colours.

- Gulf Oil, for example, have specifically trademarked 'racing colours' to prevent them being used without permission (the 'powder blue' that's famous isn't the corporate colour) - no doubt other companies have done the same.

- I imagine that when some series have agreements akin to F1's Concord Agreement, any sponsors presenting in that series are obliged to sign rights to the series. I don't know, but it's possible that cars entered as official manufacturer entries in WRX fall under something like this.

- I would guess that's ultra complicated when pulling all those together for fictional liveries, such as in Codemasters' case or like Project Cars do.

- Probably each game company's lawyers give different advice as to what they can and can't do too. Reiza got 'asked' by F1's lawyers to change their 'fictional' designs to make them appear less real.

 

---

 

Basically, I'm pretty sure it's not black and white, but a whole lot of shades of grey when it comes to licencing this stuff.

Edited August 10 by RodgerDavies
Accidentally sounded condescending

[MattyH1812 242]

So in that case and with all that said, a sign of good faith would be to allow access to the DLC files to allow the community to create their own faithful liveries for cars that deserve them, yes? 😄

[PJTierney 2,531]

 

[JZStudios 448]

6 hours ago, gfRally said:

After watching some videos of the Dirtfish in game, it seems that the entire complex has been modeled, even up to the visitor parking.  It looks like the mill run rally sprint area is modeled as well, if I am seeing it correctly.  None the less what has been modeled is a great step forward from DR4 which was fun to play around with all the extras, but just didn't feel like Dirtfish anymore.

 

Hopefully at some point replay cameras will be set up for some fun hooning videos to be made - which is what i meant a few pages back by spectator cameras.  

 

I'll give Codies a ++ for adding this and giving it away for free.

 

 

EDIT: After looking at it again, and comparing the maps, It looks like the larger area isn't modeled

FROM DIRTFISH website

Google Maps of the area that is modeled:

 

and in game:

 

Still not a bad effort and really a lot to play around in.  It seems pretty accurate, even with some artistic license

Well, like I said, it's literally the same thing from D4, but they removed the old D3 assets.

 

6 hours ago, cafe5150 said:

In Forza the livery editor doesn't seem to be policed in regards to sponsors. Yes there are a few pages of sponsor templates which will be official and paid for by Playground but the rest are user generated ( some extremely accurate as well ). There's even some liveries on there done by Forza so yes the licensing is either very loose or sewn up a treat with a big payment ( which is unlikely given the amount of individual sponsors there are). Having said that D4 must have had a deal because there were sponsor logos you could place on the car.

Once again it falls onto user made content is something they can't control. They only police vulgarities, just as an in-house rule but they don't have to.

[tbtstt 1,530]

1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

 

I did those three immediately as well! 

Still got the DS21 to endure for that trophy, and Adaptable still doesn't seem to be popping, curses! 

[tjetfiat 14]

17 minutes ago, tbtstt said:

I did those three immediately as well! 

Still got the DS21 to endure for that trophy, and Adaptable still doesn't seem to be popping, curses! 

Adaptable still not working and for me. It's like a curse!!!! 

[caerphoto 270]

9 hours ago, gfRally said:

After watching some videos of the Dirtfish in game, it seems that the entire complex has been modeled, even up to the visitor parking.  It looks like the mill run rally sprint area is modeled as well, if I am seeing it correctly.  None the less what has been modeled is a great step forward from DR4 which was fun to play around with all the extras, but just didn't feel like Dirtfish anymore.

 

Hopefully at some point replay cameras will be set up for some fun hooning videos to be made - which is what i meant a few pages back by spectator cameras.  

 

I'll give Codies a ++ for adding this and giving it away for free.

 

 

EDIT: After looking at it again, and comparing the maps, It looks like the larger area isn't modeled

FROM DIRTFISH website

Google Maps of the area that is modeled:

 

and in game:

 

Still not a bad effort and really a lot to play around in.  It seems pretty accurate, even with some artistic license

The driveable area is a bit bigger than the loading screen suggests. It’s actually more like this: