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i use 200 haha . think porky uses 300. any degrees will work once you get muscle memory. also depends on the wheel you use. the most important thing is no one person is the same and no one way is right or wrong. that goes for gears to degrees. you can use h shifter paddles or even auto gearbox and still beat anyone with a good run.

the fanatec stuff i could never get the right feel with the set up. gave feedback to help make them better more simple for rally and hopefully make a better gear stick. for dirt rally i think if you want to be competitive you probably better off with logitech or thrustmaster wheels.

if i was buying right now i do like the look of the heusinkveld stuff. especially the gear levers which so many companies get wrong its frustrating. you want for rally a quick easy to use smallish gear stick . not a big muscle breaking mechanical device.

Edited by dgeesi0
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I think when I have a play around, the cockpit hands seem to match 360 degrees, but it depends on the car I guess. I often use 270 as my old MOMO Force only went that far, and many games expect that, but obviously with things lik DR2.0 you can use the full 900, if you want a crazy workout!

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46 minutes ago, dgeesi0 said:

i use 200 haha . think porky uses 300. any degrees will work once you get muscle memory. also depends on the wheel you use. the most important thing is no one person is the same and no one way is right or wrong. that goes for gears to degrees.

Yeah, I'm going to give 360° a try. The reason why I've hesitated so far is that basically I feel comfortable with 540° and the time lost due to not being able to shift when I'd like to is not too much, maybe a few tenths, but it's still a shame to just throw away some time in those situations. 

Edited by richie

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7 minutes ago, richie said:

Yeah, I'm going to give 360° a try. The reason why I've hesitated so far is that basically I feel comfortable with 540° and the time lost due to not being able to shift when I'd like to is not too much, maybe a few tenths, but it's still a shame to just throw away some time in those situations. 

I want to say @F2CMaDMaXX runs a 450° rotation? Might be a nice step in between the two for you to try out

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1 hour ago, VirtuaIceMan said:

I think when I have a play around, the cockpit hands seem to match 360 degrees, but it depends on the car I guess. I often use 270 as my old MOMO Force only went that far, and many games expect that, but obviously with things lik DR2.0 you can use the full 900, if you want a crazy workout! 

I think such statements comes from misunderstanding of how full rotation is scaled.
Using 900* or 520 or 360 ends up with very similar working range for majority of stage. Of course, having 900* rotation to achieve full lock, you need more rotation. But how many times you really need full rotation during the stage? None I would say. My common range of usage of steering wheel fits -/+ 90 degre. So the same range you are obviously using with 360*. But my range is linear while yours - isn't.

So yes, using 520 or 360 you get access for extreme angles with less rotation, and maybe you need too steer a bit less (depending on non-linearity settings). But what is it for? Opting for arcade-like efficiency sacrificing what is given by simulation.

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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1 hour ago, dgeesi0 said:

i use 200 haha . think porky uses 300. any degrees will work once you get muscle memory. also depends on the wheel you use. the most important thing is no one person is the same and no one way is right or wrong. that goes for gears to degrees. you can use h shifter paddles or even auto gearbox and still beat anyone with a good run.

the fanatec stuff i could never get the right feel with the set up. gave feedback to help make them better more simple for rally and hopefully make a better gear stick. for dirt rally i think if you want to be competitive you probably better off with logitech or thrustmaster wheels.

if i was buying right now i do like the look of the heusinkveld stuff. especially the gear levers which so many companies get wrong its frustrating. you want for rally a quick easy to use smallish gear stick . not a big muscle breaking mechanical device.

I used 200 degrees for a long time. At some point I tried if it could be better and found out I am quickest with 300 degrees.

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I prefer to keep my wheel set to its maximum of 900 degrees, then calibrate in DR2 so rotation matches each car's steering ratio, even if it may not be ideal

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4 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

the fanatec stuff i could never get the right feel with the set up. gave feedback to help make them better more simple for rally and hopefully make a better gear stick. for dirt rally i think if you want to be competitive you probably better off with logitech or thrustmaster wheels.

if i was buying right now i do like the look of the heusinkveld stuff. especially the gear levers which so many companies get wrong its frustrating. you want for rally a quick easy to use smallish gear stick . not a big muscle breaking mechanical device.

Wait, you don't like the Fanatec shifter and told Fanatec, or CM?

I think the Fanatec shifter is the best out of the "cheaper" options. It's a seamless transition from h-pattern to sequential. And it's not muscle breaking if you loosen it up, which is also very easy. I have mine feeling about the same as my actual car. The only thing I don't like is the SQ has a lot more tension than the h-pattern, which again you could adjust on the fly, but when all you're really doing is pushing forwards and pulling back it's not a big deal.

The Heusinkveld is more expensive and does less being only a SQ, but it is smaller and probably a lot lighter. Reading their webpage it seems to boast about using a ball spring detent for "authentic" feel complete with a useless little graph. That's not particularly impressive. I'm basically just very unsure why exactly it costs so much.

4 hours ago, VirtuaIceMan said:

I think when I have a play around, the cockpit hands seem to match 360 degrees, but it depends on the car I guess. I often use 270 as my old MOMO Force only went that far, and many games expect that, but obviously with things lik DR2.0 you can use the full 900, if you want a crazy workout!

Why does everyone think that with 900 you use the full lock to lock all the time? Minus hairpins if you go for a sick drift you never really go much more than 180 degrees in either direction, and that's if you're taking a hairpin normally.

Are you guys on low rotation just slamming the hell out of lock to lock all the time? Games feel way more natural and comparable when you use a rotation that matches actuality.

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14 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Wait, you don't like the Fanatec shifter and told Fanatec, or CM?

I think the Fanatec shifter is the best out of the "cheaper" options. It's a seamless transition from h-pattern to sequential. And it's not muscle breaking if you loosen it up, which is also very easy. I have mine feeling about the same as my actual car. The only thing I don't like is the SQ has a lot more tension than the h-pattern, which again you could adjust on the fly, but when all you're really doing is pushing forwards and pulling back it's not a big deal.

The Heusinkveld is more expensive and does less being only a SQ, but it is smaller and probably a lot lighter. Reading their webpage it seems to boast about using a ball spring detent for "authentic" feel complete with a useless little graph. That's not particularly impressive. I'm basically just very unsure why exactly it costs so much.

Why does everyone think that with 900 you use the full lock to lock all the time? Minus hairpins if you go for a sick drift you never really go much more than 180 degrees in either direction, and that's if you're taking a hairpin normally.

Are you guys on low rotation just slamming the hell out of lock to lock all the time? Games feel way more natural and comparable when you use a rotation that matches actuality.

yeah i was sponsered by them but gave the stuff back as i didnt like it. not ideal for dirt rally games. too clunky. gearstick is over engineered to slow in use. you want a simple faster gearstick. i did give feedback on all of the gear i tried. the gearstick i mentioned is very simple small and ideal.

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Yes, i switched to 450 in DR2, since there are some cars that have an advantage of turn in when they're at full lock, also partially for Mike's reasoning of the paddle positioning, i'd love a seq shifter 🙂

450 is a nice compromise, but it still took me a few hours to fully get used to the extra twitchiness from my previous 540 - i personally don't like/want anything lower as i do like the extra precision for finer adjustments.

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53 minutes ago, dgeesi0 said:

yeah i was sponsered by them but gave the stuff back as i didnt like it. not ideal for dirt rally games. too clunky. gearstick is over engineered to slow in use. you want a simple faster gearstick. i did give feedback on all of the gear i tried. the gearstick i mentioned is very simple small and ideal.

I find it pretty quick, and it's not clunky at all, but whatever. Different opinions I suppose. Everyone who's tried my Fanatec shifter has really liked it.

Also it seems more representative of what's actually used instead of a teeny little thing.

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1 hour ago, dgeesi0 said:

yeah i was sponsered by them but gave the stuff back as i didnt like it. not ideal for dirt rally games. too clunky. gearstick is over engineered to slow in use. you want a simple faster gearstick. i did give feedback on all of the gear i tried. the gearstick i mentioned is very simple small and ideal.

Again, it sounds like you are after arcade (in the meaning of play efficiency) more than after having a feel of driving real-like cars.
But IMO you are a bit wrong in description. It sounds like shifting needs to be done in the fraction of seconds. Maybe F1 is closer to what you described. In rally you have to be prepared to shift before you actually do it. There is a lot of time for moving hand from wheel to stick, or pull it for changing gear. You just need to anticipate it.

BTW the way how most gear sticks works comes from what community wants. Most hardcore simracers asks for hardware providing realistic haptics. Real cars doesn't "click". You need to apply quite brutal force to use them. So, it's not like shifter developers don't listen to you. They listen to community.

Personally I love to have feeling of driving real-car. I want to shift naturally, without "easy-to-click" augmentation. And I love to use the steering wheel as in real cars. But I understand some of you just think, you need to other HW configuration to get enjoy it.

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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So if you’re using 900 but only turning about 360, does that not limit the amount of turn-in you get?

 

I’m sure if you go full-lock into a corner you’ll end up dragging the tyres by the sidewalls, but surely you want to be using about 70-80% of the travel at least?

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12 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

So if you’re using 900 but only turning about 360, does that not limit the amount of turn-in you get? 

Do you mean if in-game soft lock limits to 360?
If yes, then you get 360* lock-to-lock as in real car. So you are limited as in real car, like modern F1, but it depends on F1 car settings - for example they get more rotation in Monaco.
The point is to not limit the range, if real car offers more rotation. As example modern rally cars have about 520*, older about 900+.

 

Quote

I’m sure if you go full-lock into a corner you’ll end up dragging the tyres by the sidewalls, but surely you want to be using about 70-80% of the travel at least?

Yes it is. But I don't want to go full lock during action. There is simply no need for that. I don't even need it to turn 180 degree after spin.
900* gives you maximum, at the same time ensuring linear response in working range (let's say -/+ 90*). If you limit Lock-to-lock to 360, you can get full lock at 180*, but at the same time you usually change linearity to maintain better control around center. Effectively setting up working range in similar way comparing to 900* settings.

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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8 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

So if you’re using 900 but only turning about 360, does that not limit the amount of turn-in you get?

 

I’m sure if you go full-lock into a corner you’ll end up dragging the tyres by the sidewalls, but surely you want to be using about 70-80% of the travel at least?

Do you drive an actual car? Outside of moving around around occupied parking lots, how much do you turn the wheel? I mean, even when I race down twisty mountain roads in my actual shitbox I don't go more than 180 in either direction. Guy above me is right, most of it's in the +/-90 range.

The only time in game I really go wider than that is drifting in Assetto Corsa, and you just do that by feel more than anything.

You shouldn't have to slam lock to lock.

Edited by JZStudios
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25 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

Again, it sounds like you are after arcade (in the meaning of play efficiency) more than after having a feel of driving real-like cars.
But IMO you are a bit wrong in description. It sounds like shifting needs to be done in the fraction of seconds. Maybe F1 is closer to what you described. In rally you have to be prepared to shift before you actually do it. There is a lot of time for moving hand from wheel to stick, or pull it for changing gear. You just need to anticipate it.

BTW the way how most gear sticks works comes from what community wants. Most hardcore simracers asks for hardware providing realistic haptics. Real cars doesn't "click". You need to apply quite brutal force to use them. So, it's not like shifter developers don't listen to you. They listen to community.

Personally I love to have feeling of driving real-car. I want to shift naturally, without "easy-to-click" augmentation. And I love to use the steering wheel as in real cars. But I understand some of you just think, you need to other HW configuration to get enjoy it.

which is why i gave my opinion on the gear. after arcade because i dont like how it feels. i have driven many of the cars in the game in real life. so i do understand what i want to feel and i didnt get it from fanatec gear i tried. also nothing i tried made it feel like driving a real car.

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25 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

Real cars doesn't "click". You need to apply quite brutal force to use them

This may be true for stock cars that aren't modified for racing disciplines, but I would argue the opposite is the case for high end rally cars. Watch any of the on-boards, they are able to slap through a sequential shifter with minimal effort and can do so very fast. They are designed specifically to do so, but many also are running true dog-box so you've got room to preload each shift (which you can't get in sim gear for < $900)

But the actual shifting is short throw, unless we are using historics with original parts. I fully get what you mean when you say you prefer the authenticity of h-box and full wheel rotation, but a big portion of the sim-gear consumers are also looking for the optimal gear that helps them drive faster. So wheels that can deliver good FFB at lower DoR are very useful along with accessories that make your life easier while driving so you can focus on holding that line flatout in 6th gear.

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The very easy solution to this is being slow in the game. Like me. I don't have to worry about DoR and shifts because they aren't going to get me to the top, so I can use whatever I like to. I mean, my issue with trees, rocks and cliffs is hardly due to the steering rotation

I usually go for soft lock to have the true DoR of that car, and I don't have an H-Shifter 'cause money so paddles will do

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I feel you're using the term "brutal" incorrectly - no car that isn't in need of dire repair, needs brutal force to shift.

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3 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

which is why i gave my opinion on the gear. after arcade because i dont like how it feels. i have driven many of the cars in the game in real life. so i do understand what i want to feel and i didnt get it from fanatec gear i tried. also nothing i tried made it feel like driving a real car.

That's interesting! Could you tell me what DR2.0 cars have you driven in real life? I'd really like to know 🙂

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10 hours ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

I feel you're using the term "brutal" incorrectly - no car that isn't in need of dire repair, needs brutal force to shift.

One too many days on the old Fast and Furious arcade machines methinks.

Don't you know if you brute slam the shifter you gain .0003 seconds?

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42 minutes ago, Huracanma said:

Any news about Kit Cars? @PJTierney

 

We are waiting them impatiently 😃

They're coming next week (2 of them, to be more correct - the third is due next month)

ss_ed9da61b489d87e3d02c675a369fd43801e23

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