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PJTierney

 

Message added by PJTierney

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12 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

I also appreciate that PC2 has full vehicle tuning and OEM tuning setups. For example, the Scioyobaru FR86 is basically complete garbage in AC and doesn't drift at all, yet it behaves much more realistically and skids very well in PC2 under OEM setup+tires. A bunch of other games don't seem to have OEM setups and just have the values randomly assigned to common values or something in the middle.

I didn't play that game (despite owning it), are you saying the manufacturers gave their own recommended tuning settings that players can use as defaults?

 

13 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

I've been curious about this, does Sony own the old engine or something? Or did they just want to make a new engine?

Presumably it's the former. When I left Konami for example I didn't exactly get to take all my working files with me to Codemasters 😄 

In most companies, the things you make as part of your job while under their employment belong to them.

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21 hours ago, Orangetuner said:

You know what I want to see? I want to see more detail on the roads especially tarmac. Just take a gander to how Germany tarmac actually looks its as if its constantly changing:

A good handful of RBR NGP modded stages actually represent the different sections of tarmac on a stage and it is so cool. 

Totally agree, not only the tarmac, but also the gravel stages. I find the Scottish stages fantastic in design, by far the best in the game, but the roads are 20 km of the same boring texture. All the screenshots below were taken from the same stage that is in DR2, and you can see the surface constantly changing.

image.thumb.png.343514e5b3d5776c7ee85051c65b6ace.png

That kind of detail and variation is what would make the stages more interesting in a future game.

Also, I think the New Zealand is a missed opportunity, they could have made the stages with two gravel colors: gray AND the color they are now (like in real life, like in WRC9...), again, more variation = more interesting stages.

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2 hours ago, RGgiac said:

Totally agree, not only the tarmac, but also the gravel stages. I find the Scottish stages fantastic in design, by far the best in the game, but the roads are 20 km of the same boring texture. All the screenshots below were taken from the same stage that is in DR2, and you can see the surface constantly changing.

image.thumb.png.343514e5b3d5776c7ee85051c65b6ace.png

That kind of detail and variation is what would make the stages more interesting in a future game.

Also, I think the New Zealand is a missed opportunity, they could have made the stages with two gravel colors: gray AND the color they are now (like in real life, like in WRC9...), again, more variation = more interesting stages.

There ya go. I think this is the best answer. Not only would this add more variety but it would also be adding more realism too. Killing two birds with one stone.

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On 12/1/2020 at 4:32 PM, PJTierney said:

It's always better to look at the number of unique kms in a game than the raw Stage/Track count.

 

DiRT Rally 2.0 has about the following:

  • 150km (Base Game, Rally Only)
  • 315km (GOTY, Rally Only)

 

I don't have time to add up the numbers from other rally games, somebody else can do the research 🙂 

 

 

 

WRC8: 14 locations, total unique 257 km, with France having most kilometres totalling almost 22 km.

WRC9: 13 locations, total unique 290 km (including the 6 new stages in Portugal coming in next update next week), with Finland having the most kilometres totalling almost 41 km.

Both games have several stages of 20 km and longer (in Monte Carlo, Finland, New Zealand, Japan and Chile), and all this included in the base game with no extra cost. 😉

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6 hours ago, CMMcBabe said:

I'd just like to chip in here, the Cheshire studio wrote the engine for Onrush from scratch, it was not an existing engine.  They have since then modified it a fair bit for DIRT 5.

Oh dang that's bad ass. Thank you for the reply!

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5 hours ago, JZStudios said:

How is the gearbox more responsive?

Well I think I was meaning to say that in PC2 when I try to shift at maximum high RPM without red-lining it in cars their reaction inputs felt less predictable imo. Not all cars because Im not gonna lie. I only race like 10 cars in PC2 haha. But I swear there were just some cars that felt annoying to use the clutch when shifting in high RPM without red-lining it and then I'd hop into AMS2 and RBR and use the clutch to shift at high RPM and it just felt like it all came together. 

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7 hours ago, PJTierney said:

I didn't play that game (despite owning it), are you saying the manufacturers gave their own recommended tuning settings that players can use as defaults?

 

Presumably it's the former. When I left Konami for example I didn't exactly get to take all my working files with me to Codemasters 😄 

In most companies, the things you make as part of your job while under their employment belong to them.

PC2 has preset tuning options for OEM, "loose" and "stable." At least for road cars, the race cars don't have OEM. I can't verify it, but it claims to be OEM tuning specs and not just random values. There's a bunch of cars in other sims that use random or middle values and they drive awful.

Fun fact, after setting up the custom FFB file I actually started making my own tunes for some cars and could really feel the difference and get much quicker lap times. It was cool, and the race engineer thing makes it a lot simpler, though it doesn't do all of the available options.

 

I didn't know you worked at Konami nor made your own game engine.

I could buy Sony owning it, but I think typically when they shut down a studio they sell the engine too. Pretty sure Bungie is still using BLAM or whatever. But maybe MS just was more generous.

 

2 hours ago, Orangetuner said:

Well I think I was meaning to say that in PC2 when I try to shift at maximum high RPM without red-lining it in cars their reaction inputs felt less predictable imo. Not all cars because Im not gonna lie. I only race like 10 cars in PC2 haha. But I swear there were just some cars that felt annoying to use the clutch when shifting in high RPM without red-lining it and then I'd hop into AMS2 and RBR and use the clutch to shift at high RPM and it just felt like it all came together. 

I'm not sure I've noticed that problem. Then again, shifting in games is always pretty lame anyways. Never been able to get a good shift feel. Not sure what reaction inputs you mean. I do know that when I don't feel like setting up my shifter and use automatic it sucks. It'll shift on me mid corner and upset the car and make me spin. Really annoying.

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44 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Not sure what reaction inputs you mean.

I think I'm trying to refer to the clutch sensitivity. Its odd. It seems like they've added a delay to disengaging the clutch to simulate a foot pressing on it but there is no gradual pressure to it. You press the clutch and there is nothing sometimes then a moment later....BAM its 100% disengaged. Like ***. It really throws me off if when I'm trying to rev-match my shifts. Dont get me wrong I love PC2 and adore it for what it is and I bet if they kept updating it it small things like that would have been addressed but... that not how SMS was doing things back then. Which is why I love AMS2 so much because it feels like a modded version of PC2 and given the love I wish the SMS devs would have given to PC2. 

And I think if someone really likes PC2 then AMS2 would be something worth looking at just for the heck of it.

Edited by Orangetuner

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I think it would be nice if default tuning could be something that has actually been set up by someone that knows what they're doing, especially if you don't. If you download a setup, assuming you can, nine times out of ten it's made by an alien with a steering wheel and meaningless to someone with a controller. If you have a controller, there ought to be a default setup you could load that would enable you to really get the most out of the car right out of the box. Not all of us are Rally Technical (The artist formerly known as GTR Technical!), though I will say that his DR 2.0 setups work brilliantly even with a controller.

What I loved in PC1 was the setup database, I got so much out of that site. I learned so much from that and was able to start making my own setups. Then, everything changed when PC2 came out and hardly any of the data I got from the first game looked like it could be applied to the second. That is the one thing holding me back a little from AMS2, lack of setup data from other players, if someone like Rally Technical would do likewise with games like AMS2 it would be a massive help.

EDIT:

Mmmmm, ok,

Just looking at a video regarding AMS2 setups, and, you can see in the list of downloadable ghost setups which control method they used, be it controller or steering wheel. Now we're talking! This game gets better and better!

Edited by Rogerbee
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8 hours ago, JZStudios said:

I didn't know you worked at Konami nor made your own game engine.

I worked at Konami (more info here), but didn't make a game engine, no.

The point I was making was that anything I created for Konami is owned by them and I couldn't take it with me to Codemasters.

 

50 minutes ago, Rogerbee said:

I think it would be nice if default tuning could be something that has actually been set up by someone that knows what they're doing, especially if you don't. If you download a setup, assuming you can, nine times out of ten it's made by an alien with a steering wheel and meaningless to someone with a controller. If you have a controller, there ought to be a default setup you could load that would enable you to really get the most out of the car right out of the box. Not all of us are Rally Technical (The artist formerly known as GTR Technical!), though I will say that his DR 2.0 setups work brilliantly even with a controller.

I'd be totally down for a few tuners to create the "default" values in future games. For the Colin McRae pack I did get @2Technical early access so that he would have setups available on launch day.

 

 

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4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

 

I'd be totally down for a few tuners to create the "default" values in future games. For the Colin McRae pack I did get @2Technical early access so that he would have setups available on launch day.

 

 

Nice, can you put a word in!? @2Technical certainly gets my vote.

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Would be cool, if the DR Rally-Team could be confirming there will be a title before the CM-WRC-Games at some point in the near future.
I mean, until Codemasters gets the license, it is still more than 2 years away.

I don't expect something concrete, just something to look forward to.


Also some word on the outage yesterday would be nice, I missed a club run due to this and that not for the first time in the last weeks.
I hope this unreliability of the servers don't come back.

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17 minutes ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

Would be cool, if the DR Rally-Team could be confirming there will be a title before the CM-WRC-Games at some point in the near future.
I mean, until Codemasters gets the license, it is still more than 2 years away.

I don't expect something concrete, just something to look forward to.

This is the closest you'll get:

 

Quote

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/codemasters-gets-rights-to-official-wrc-game/

 

Codemasters said: “We are committed to rally and the DiRT Rally team is already working on their next project ahead of the WRC agreement in 2023.”

 

 

 

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So it's confirmed there will be a game before 2023 and the WRC agreement. Cool.
That's good enough for now, thanks.

I don't expect anything before next summer anyway, probably much later.

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15 hours ago, Orangetuner said:

I think I'm trying to refer to the clutch sensitivity. Its odd. It seems like they've added a delay to disengaging the clutch to simulate a foot pressing on it but there is no gradual pressure to it. You press the clutch and there is nothing sometimes then a moment later....BAM its 100% disengaged. Like ***. It really throws me off if when I'm trying to rev-match my shifts. Dont get me wrong I love PC2 and adore it for what it is and I bet if they kept updating it it small things like that would have been addressed but... that not how SMS was doing things back then. Which is why I love AMS2 so much because it feels like a modded version of PC2 and given the love I wish the SMS devs would have given to PC2. 

And I think if someone really likes PC2 then AMS2 would be something worth looking at just for the heck of it.

Hmm. Don't think I had that issue. I even started rev matching, heel-toeing, and double clutching without issue. Though I think (as it should be set) my clutch is set to engage between like 20-70%. Maybe higher on the low end. Might make a difference. For the record, no, up until now I hadn't been heel-toeing, primarily because in my car the pedals are super tiny and I physically can't. But starting to do it in PC2 I realised it really helps keep the back end from spinning while downshifting, where previously I would just stick with a gear until corner exit.

I'm really more into road cars. It translates more into potential reality for me. Driving a GT3 RWD is nothing like my ****** 100hp FWD, but the Ford Focus is... close enough. Closer, anyways, and you can more accurately judge how realistic it feels. If you have PC2 on PC, I 100% recommend checking out Christiaans FFB for it. It totally changed the game.

 

8 hours ago, Rogerbee said:

I think it would be nice if default tuning could be something that has actually been set up by someone that knows what they're doing, especially if you don't. If you download a setup, assuming you can, nine times out of ten it's made by an alien with a steering wheel and meaningless to someone with a controller.

For race cars, sure. A good default setup across all locations would be great, then you could optimize per location from there. But as you mention, there's some people playing with different peripherals, so who do you tune for? Controller tunes aren't great for a wheel, and vice versa. I think for road cars and such starting with factory settings is really good. A lot of racing games tune for controller, which make them kind of **** with a wheel. I've heard one of the BeamNG guys say they design default tunes around controller, which combined with questionable suspension geometry can make some of them pretty dreadful to drive.

 

7 hours ago, PJTierney said:

I worked at Konami (more info here), but didn't make a game engine, no.

The point I was making was that anything I created for Konami is owned by them and I couldn't take it with me to Codemasters.

Oh god, you're a Yugioh nerd...

Anyway, I was joking. These things are often weird. My buddy is an EE working for TI and he said anything he designs for work or personal TI can lay claim to. Not sure how that actually works.

 

5 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

@PJTierney made an engine? Cool! What was it called? PJtek? GamePJryo! 

My vote's on YugiUGH!

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15 hours ago, JZStudios said:

 

For race cars, sure. A good default setup across all locations would be great, then you could optimize per location from there. But as you mention, there's some people playing with different peripherals, so who do you tune for? Controller tunes aren't great for a wheel, and vice versa. I think for road cars and such starting with factory settings is really good. A lot of racing games tune for controller, which make them kind of **** with a wheel. I've heard one of the BeamNG guys say they design default tunes around controller, which combined with questionable suspension geometry can make some of them pretty dreadful to drive.

 

 

When I found a usable setup for a car, I tended to use it on all tracks and it worked really well. On tarmac circuits you could get away with that. With rally stages, however, you needed to adjust for each location which was why @2Technical was a godsend. Some of the guys on the PC1 setup database were using data from real cars and boy were their setups good, they were from real drivers and teams and not just players in their bedrooms. That's what I've been missing from driving games since then.

Edited by Rogerbee

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5 hours ago, Rogerbee said:

When I found a usable setup for a car, I tended to use it on all tracks and it worked really well. On tarmac circuits you could get away with that. With rally stages, however, you needed to adjust for each location which was why @2Technical was a godsend. Some of the guys on the PC1 setup database were using data from real cars and boy were there setups good, they were from real drivers and teams and not just players in their bedrooms. That's what I've been missing from driving games since then.

I guess I can't speak for realistic tune setups, but PC1 always had funky physics that PC2 massively improved on...

I'm getting deja vu again. How many times have we had this conversation?

Anyway, I don't know why real tunes would work in PC1 but not translate over to PC2.

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It was the way the settings were implemented in PC2, you couldn't make the same adjustments that you could in PC1 so you couldn't replicate the data. It was the same with DR1 and DR2.0. Most of the setups I used in DR1 were from Steam workshops so I had no idea what the adjustments were, I just loaded the settings up and off I went. When they ditched that format for DR2.0, I pretty much had to start from scratch as I'd never used the setup screens before. I would download Rally Technical's videos, go over them frame by frame, write down what the settings were and then put them into the game. It was a lot of hassle, but was worth it in the end.

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set ups personally i think you should have someone like jon go through the whole range and dial in the defaults. apart from the just lower everything to the floor and all the way right. about the only set up you need :classic_biggrin:

many people make set ups or videos on set ups and tbh many are useless or worse than default.

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@PJTierney  Never saw your website before.  Impressive amount of art you have done.  I remember back when you posted a couple of illustrations, but that kind of scrolled by on the phone.  Taking a bit longer to look at what you have done is really cool.  

Also saw the Tutorial you did for Digital Arts, I remembered that very well, because I was using a similar approach (and still do).   I was un-easy about the approach, coming from very traditional art techniques and ideas, still feel like its cheating if I don't have my Copic markers and pens out in front of me.  However I bought a Surface Pro a few years ago and started up painting digitally exploring different techniques.  I may have to go back and look at your guide and see it with fresh eyes after all the years.  

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23 minutes ago, gfRally said:

@PJTierney  Never saw your website before.  Impressive amount of art you have done.  I remember back when you posted a couple of illustrations, but that kind of scrolled by on the phone.  Taking a bit longer to look at what you have done is really cool.  

Also saw the Tutorial you did for Digital Arts, I remembered that very well, because I was using a similar approach (and still do).   I was un-easy about the approach, coming from very traditional art techniques and ideas, still feel like its cheating if I don't have my Copic markers and pens out in front of me.  However I bought a Surface Pro a few years ago and started up painting digitally exploring different techniques.  I may have to go back and look at your guide and see it with fresh eyes after all the years.  

 

I remember reverse-engineering this video to find out how he did it, and came up with my own method 🙂 

 

5b68b675348609.5c4b873538cc0.jpg

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Quite some posts this week, and now catching up.

Stages

- About the stages and amount of KMS. A lot of resources go towards this, some say they didn't know, but if just think logical, it ofcourse takes the most time. Also don't forget a stage is basically a straight, while a race or rallycourse is more a circle. So therefore the area of a stage is much wider, while a RX/race track is more more compact. Developing 20 F1 tracks is basically easier than 20 rally location with 2 stages = 40 stages. Basically 40 stages are more like 80 race tracks or 120 RX tracks. 

- I think more stage KM is possible, but that is also a choice of quality/quantity. Next to that is also has to do with the tools you got and how efficient you can develop with that. For example with cars Codemasters now uses a 3d scanner. 

- Rather than longer stages, I rather have an extra stage in a bit different environment. For example Germany has stages on the tank/army grounds. You can make the stage longer, but you basically got a longer similar stage. Rather I see a stage in the vineyards to get actually a very different experience. 

VW

For now i wouldnt worry to much for licensing and the brand leaving. VW group has been in the emmision gate for years and have been active in electric sports for years. At the same time we see Audi RX, Audi Quattro, and different VW cars in the game. Also the diesel Touareg Dakar car is in D5. 

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Volkswagen would have had some epic making-up to do for their emissions fraud scandal, where they were caught nobbling the emissions measuring devices in their vehicles, so they basically cheated big-league. Naughty naughty

So I suppose they've had to do what those monks would do for chastisement, ie walk between monasteries flogging themselves

I haven't looked it up but if any of their punishment at the hands of the EU regulators remains confidential, who knows what part of the current trajectory is caught up in that.

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