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Well I agree with @RyuMakkuro who has approved my gut feeling with proper arguments.

I don't think that @KickUp was wanting a rally school in all CM's games for 5 years so it must be something more universal that also applies to GRID and F1 series and maybe even to some non-racing games ;)

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austinb said:
You seem to only be taking into account the visuals of the stages and not the actual layout and feel of them. The way the stages drive is a pretty much unique experience from anywhere in the world. The constant extreme camber and narrow roads would require a different driving style for sure. 
You say how Malaysia has red mud and tropical plants... well so do the rally NZ stages... the foliage itself really separates it from wales visually as does the awesome landscape in general.
I feel there is a misconception that NZ is the same as Wales, some parts are but lots of parts are very different with alpine type areas and tropical areas (where they have hot summers with huge storms).
If done correctly the stages would look and feel very unique. 

Watch at least half of this then tell me its too similar to Wales.
You don't get it. I'm not sharing my personal opinion about New Zealand,
I'm stating why it's not a wise choice from a design point of view when the choices are so limited.
This is a -game-.
When you have a small selection, and DiRT Rally does, the contrasts have to be night and day stark so that when your average person looks at the screenshots on the back of the box, they see very distinct palettes.
Yes, I'm referring to the visuals. That's the point.

No one -here- is saying Wales and New Zealand are actually the same for goodness sake.
Watch the DiRT Show again and Paul's own words.
Like I said, you can disagree all you want but it's not going to change the situation.

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ramPage16 said:
The co-op driving seems most probable now that it's mentioned.


how you mean exactly?  a online pvp  with time attack?  that would be cool

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ramPage16 said:
No, teknoid, I'm talking about having a friend ride in the car with you and be your co-driver.
That for me wouold be a complete waste of time and resource, and I think so for many others.  There's likely to be less than 1% of the community who'll use this.  Last think I want to hear my mate saying is "sorry lad, I meant 1 left tightens, not 6 left opens.

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gaski said:
ramPage16 said:
No, teknoid, I'm talking about having a friend ride in the car with you and be your co-driver.
That for me wouold be a complete waste of time and resource, and I think so for many others.  There's likely to be less than 1% of the community who'll use this.  Last think I want to hear my mate saying is "sorry lad, I meant 1 left tightens, not 6 left opens.

Of course it is pretty niche but it is the kind of thing that can really cement league communities and create flagship events. Imagine being able to organise league events with driver/co-driver pairings and being able to spectate each run. iRacing have a spectator & spotter function and broadcast events.

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ramPage16 said:
No, teknoid, I'm talking about having a friend ride in the car with you and be your co-driver.
hmmmm, i don't think this is so exiting and interesting.  nobody want to be the codriver :D

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function9 said:
I always wondered, wouldn't it be more efficient to hire a local surveyor to gather the data needed for a particular location/stage and maybe even a local photographer, than to send a handful of game devs around the world? Not saying the devs don't know what they're doing, but using people that do a particular thing for a living seems like it'd be more cost effective and quicker.
Reference trips isn't just about photographing everything (although that is a big part of it), it's also about being there and feeling it. When it comes to the photography, it's easier for an artist who has to actually make the content to know what kind of photos you need to do it. It involves taking photos of everything you see on the road, from as many angles as possible, plus doing it with consistent settings so you don't have to manually edit 1000s of photos when you get back, adding in a ruler (or a person, or something else) for scale in some so you know the size of what you're making. There can also be little details that catch an artists eye that a normal person wouldn't think about :)


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BrySkye said:
You don't get it. I'm not sharing my personal opinion about New Zealand,
I'm stating why it's not a wise choice from a design point of view when the choices are so limited.
This is a -game-.
When you have a small selection, and DiRT Rally does, the contrasts have to be night and day stark so that when your average person looks at the screenshots on the back of the box, they see very distinct palettes.
Yes, I'm referring to the visuals. That's the point.

No one -here- is saying Wales and New Zealand are actually the same for goodness sake.
Watch the DiRT Show again and Paul's own words.
Like I said, you can disagree all you want but it's not going to change the situation.
Actually i completely understand your point and agree that the stages have to look different to appeal, but I simply belive the NZ is different enough. Finland looks far more similar to Wales than Nz would, but its in the game because its a completely different type of rally. I understand the reason completely, i just dont think that reason applies to NZ.
And yeah im not sitting here thinking I can change what Paul does, Im just stating I think the reason is invalid. I understand why It wont likely be in the game because its the furthest possible place to visit, I dont buy the fact that its "too similar", visually or physically.
You stated that Malaysia would be good because its "different". Yet a lot of NZ stages look very similar to what you would find in a place like Malaysia, the plants, the red dirt...

Yes this is my personal opinion, and its not going to change the situation, but this is the Gossip thread, and the entire point of it is that we dont have facts so we share our opinions.

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austinb said:
BrySkye said:
You don't get it. I'm not sharing my personal opinion about New Zealand,
I'm stating why it's not a wise choice from a design point of view when the choices are so limited.
This is a -game-.
When you have a small selection, and DiRT Rally does, the contrasts have to be night and day stark so that when your average person looks at the screenshots on the back of the box, they see very distinct palettes.
Yes, I'm referring to the visuals. That's the point.

No one -here- is saying Wales and New Zealand are actually the same for goodness sake.
Watch the DiRT Show again and Paul's own words.
Like I said, you can disagree all you want but it's not going to change the situation.
Actually i completely understand your point and agree that the stages have to look different to appeal, but I simply belive the NZ is different enough. Finland looks far more similar to Wales than Nz would, but its in the game because its a completely different type of rally. I understand the reason completely, i just dont think that reason applies to NZ.
And yeah im not sitting here thinking I can change what Paul does, Im just stating I think the reason is invalid. I understand why It wont likely be in the game because its the furthest possible place to visit, I dont buy the fact that its "too similar", visually or physically.
You stated that Malaysia would be good because its "different". Yet a lot of NZ stages look very similar to what you would find in a place like Malaysia, the plants, the red dirt...

Yes this is my personal opinion, and its not going to change the situation, but this is the Gossip thread, and the entire point of it is that we dont have facts so we share our opinions.


Following this argument, I have a question.  I understand the palette differences for marketing and changing the feeling of the location, thats fine.  

BUT

How do other games get away with it and still produce a marketable game?  Assetto Corsa, F1, PCars or WRC all have a lot of similar looking places, however each venue is still unique.  

Its early in the morning here, so I am just throwing this out with out thinking to hard on it.

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Ha maybe @KickUp got early info about Ken Block's full 2016 campaign in World RX? :tongue: :tongue:

http://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/article/9071/block-confirms-full-world-rx

I suspect and hope that Codies will keep on working with World RX to expant its content in DiRT Rally so we may see Ken's livery officially in the game at some point in the future... :)

I personally don't mind and I'm intrigued to see how he fares against really fast drivers in World RX. I'm sure @tbtstt will know more, but M-Sport prepared RX Fiesta with Ford Performance support won't be a slow machine...


Back to the game Gossip - @Azoresst reminded me about the tutorial videos that were mentioned by the team a while back. I'm not so convinced about a Rally School anymore...

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gfRally said:
Following this argument, I have a question.  I understand the palette differences for marketing and changing the feeling of the location, thats fine.  

BUT

How do other games get away with it and still produce a marketable game?  Assetto Corsa, F1, PCars or WRC all have a lot of similar looking places, however each venue is still unique.  

Its early in the morning here, so I am just throwing this out with out thinking to hard on it.
Discussion not argument! ;) I would suggest that with circuit racing, people generally expect to have a dark grey strip of road with 2 tone curbs and then beige gravel or grass.
In the real world circuits (especially modern ones) dont have a huge amount of palette variation.
With what rally is as a discipline, it inherently has a much broader variety of scenery/colours, as they drive on different terrains in different places.
So i guess its expected of a rally game to represent a varied palette where as in circuit racing games its not expected. 

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Ha maybe @KickUp got early info about Ken Block's full 2016 campaign in World RX? :tongue: :tongue:

http://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/article/9071/block-confirms-full-world-rx

I suspect and hope that Codies will keep on working with World RX to expant its content in DiRT Rally so we may see Ken's livery officially in the game at some point in the future... :)

I personally don't mind and I'm intrigued to see how he fares against really fast drivers in World RX. I'm sure @tbtstt will know more, but M-Sport prepared RX Fiesta with Ford Performance support won't be a slow machine...


Back to the game Gossip - @Azoresst reminded me about the tutorial videos that were mentioned by the team a while back. I'm not so convinced about a Rally School anymore...
Oh man I so wish we could have full events running online with spectator mode and replays. RX would freakin awesome in online league racing!

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Anyways, could we have an option  to adjust turbocharger's pressure? I sometimes take the Pug 205 onto Monte but it seemed to overreact on those tight bends and even worse on ice patches. And even much worse, my game bloody lags... :/

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Can someone explain to me how would the co-op mode work? Would it be done online so my friend can give me directions? What about the lag? I don't see a point in split screen mode either because he will see exactly the same piece of road. The codriver sits in the same car. Sit down together with your friend and off you go!
https://youtu.be/pju3c20BVCY

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I called Ken Block!                                                      
i wonder why i woke up last night with sweat pouring off me :#

not sure how i feel about co op.

thing is we in here saying we dont want it to be this or that and pissing on the possible new content :)

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gfRally said:
BUT

How do other games get away with it and still produce a marketable game?  Assetto Corsa, F1, PCars or WRC all have a lot of similar looking places, however each venue is still unique.  

Its early in the morning here, so I am just throwing this out with out thinking to hard on it.
They have more quantity for one thing. It's a bit easier for circuit races because they just need to say much more than how many real world circuits are represented. Monacco, Silverstone, Sebring, Daytona, these have a bit more impact and can even be house hold names.
For example, Gran Turismo 6 has 41 tracks and 81 distinct layouts. Even then there is a lot of variety for what it is ranging from Monacco, Goodwood Festival of Speed, the usual circuits, Japan street races at night and, quite literally, the MOON.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvj_BquEBec

A lot of these games can also sell themselves on the strength of their car list and the variety of disciplines.

WRC 5 has 65 unique stages available across 13 environments. Having more than double what DR has means they can be less distinct, plus they have to represent the actual WRC.
WRC, F1, these are in part sold on the basis of their official license and representing the real event, teams, etc.

DiRT Rally v1 has 12 unique stages with the rest being splitting those 12 in half or running them in the opposite direction.
So that's a rather drastic reduction in comparison. It's less than even Sega Rally Revo, which also had 6 locations, but 3 stages per location.

Sega Rally is a pretty good one to reference because of it. They made six trailers dedicated to each environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjq_ks2yrXo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjIi4F3mao8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4xEqGbI_yY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T-wRlGSYuo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWxX8J9KoZ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsPfzLeL48g

(Saying as we mentioned Finland being similar to Wales, it's worth pointing out that the Finland we have in the game is in Autumn, itself an issue of contention, but does change the palette with the addition of browns and oranges compared to Wales, and generally nicer weather. This also came up in relation to Germany and one of the reasons for the German stages we do have, those having very very little in the way of forest sections, is for the same reason).

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I personally don't mind and I'm intrigued to see how he fares against really fast drivers in World RX. I'm sure @tbtstt will know more, but M-Sport prepared RX Fiesta with Ford Performance support won't be a slow machine...

The M-Sport Fiesta is, to put it mildly, a weapon @MastaVonBlasta ! I think many would say it's the most developed rallycross car in the world at present.

Despite all the criticism, Block is fast as well. When Block ran at Loheac in 2014 he set the fastest lap on the circuit (a circuit he had never driven on before): no one came close to that lap time in either 2014 or at last years Loheac round. 

You could argue that the car might have helped him be that quick, but I could get in that car tomorrow and not get close to his lap time: so there must be at least some talent there! I'm so pleased that Block will be running in the World Championship: I hope it means he will be dropping the Global Rallycrash Championship from his calendar. I'd also like to know if the rumours are true and he will be running a Focus in the World RX. 

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PaloSamo said:
Can someone explain to me how would the co-op mode work? Would it be done online so my friend can give me directions? What about the lag? I don't see a point in split screen mode either because he will see exactly the same piece of road. The codriver sits in the same car. Sit down together with your friend and off you go!

If you take the iRacing spotter function as an example, your co-driver would get a real time feed of the stage and have a dedicated chat channel for two way communication. iRacing also provide a spectator function which again is a real time feed of the event where spectators can chat amongst themselves. This seems a potentially attractive option for leagues wishing to run an event where driver/co-driver teams would take turns to run. The preparation for the event by the pairing compiling pace notes would make it a proper team effort.

I guess the downside is that as drivers get to learn stages like they do a race circuit the role of the co-driver diminishes.

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gfRally said:
How do other games get away with it and still produce a marketable game?  Assetto Corsa, F1, PCars or WRC all have a lot of similar looking places, however each venue is still unique.
License. Names. Amounts. You know, the legendary stuff that brings the crowd, like Laguna Seca, Nurburgring, Circuit de la Sarthe etc. In circuit racers it's more about the layout, rather than colour palette. In fact, it's all about the layout, since colour palette is basically the same in most cases.
tbtstt said:
I'd also like to know if the rumours are true and he will be running a Focus in the World RX. 
Yes please. I'm sick and tired of the Fiesta, bring on the proper rally Ford :D 

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