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Yes, I understand about the banks. Point is the behavior still isn't right on the rally side. Which is why I said hop in RX, you can see there how a car behaves when bumping into something solid.

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BrySkye said:
austinb said:
Ok i see that im wasting my time with the NZ thing, think whatever you like, PS corsica is also nothing like monaco it is much wider and faster, but again i will leave it at that.
It's only a waste of time when you try to insist your opinion on something is 'right'. :)
Most of use are just describing what the situation is, as opposed to what we think it should be.

I appreciate that is what you have been doing but others havent. I dont see the problem in confronting the situation if I disagree with it, however It has turned into more than I intended and is no longer on topic so i will stop.

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I think they modelled the snowbanks quite well, especially how your car can get sucked in. Of course I hate it when it happens to me, but it feels right. Never tried in real life, though.

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The snowbank pulling effect sometimes, just sometimes might be reaching too far out, my control scheme doesn't exactly help either, tho i get by alright, depends on the car.

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gaski said:
ramPage16 said:
No, teknoid, I'm talking about having a friend ride in the car with you and be your co-driver.
That for me wouold be a complete waste of time and resource, and I think so for many others.  There's likely to be less than 1% of the community who'll use this.  Last think I want to hear my mate saying is "sorry lad, I meant 1 left tightens, not 6 left opens.

teknoid85 said:

hmmmm, i don't think this is so exiting and interesting.  nobody want to be the codriver :D
I don't really care for the feature either but it's still quite unique. And it really has been requested like mad since the game has been out.

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As I said, yes, there's a soft layer where the car will rebound gently (first video). Just beyond that you have the same exaggerated behavior as in the other locations (second).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtCq_3OE5Ao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKBM4fPEXlk




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That's by design, the whole gamble is how deep are the snow banks before you hit the harder ice/barrier/etc.

Watch some Rally Sweden videos, you see exactly those two videos through out.

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Oh jesus. It's like being in the twilight zone sometimes. I'm well aware of the possibility hard snowbanks. The problem is the car has the same, exaggerate reaction to the hard snowbanks as it does to banks in Wales. It's not absorbing any of the impact. We know the behavior is wrong as established here:
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/119327
In contrast, they've done a pretty good job in RX when a car bumps into a wall or barrier, it's absorbing the impact. If they would've combined the "soft" snow behavior of Sweden with the collision behavior from RX for the "hard" snow underneath, it would be perfect. Instead what we have is basically a shallow, soft layer over Wales banks.

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function9 said:
Oh jesus. It's like being in the twilight zone sometimes. I'm well aware of the possibility hard snowbanks. The problem is the car has the same, exaggerate reaction to the hard snowbanks as it does to banks in Wales. It's not absorbing any of the impact. We know the behavior is wrong as established here:
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/119327
In contrast, they've done a pretty good job in RX when a car bumps into a wall or barrier, it's absorbing the impact. If they would've combined the "soft" snow behavior of Sweden with the collision behavior from RX for the "hard" snow underneath, it would be perfect. Instead what we have is basically a shallow, soft layer over Wales banks.

The banks are a very different shape to the walls though, you are only hitting the banks with the tyres and lower body, unlike the straight walls which don't allow the cars to transfer the movement vertically

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That's not what you were saying with the videos, but, the videos also show reasonably realistic reactions, i know the hard side reactions aren't quite right in the game, cars react too strongly to them, but the snow banks are a lot better, including the harder stuff underneath (though probably only because the soft stuff slows the reaction to the hard stuff)

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austinb said:
Wales and NZ stages are not "just slightly different". Mexico for example is very similar to greece, San Remo is similar to Monaco (just in summer), lots of European Tarmac rallies are very similar. In conparison to them, Wales and NZ are hugely different.
They are similar indeed but realise that New Zealand is just as similar to Wales. I've watched through the entire video you linked and if it weren't for the title, I would've easily assumed it was Wales when it isn't raining for a longer while. If you want to see something different, compare Wales with Australia. COMPLETELY different.
I think you assume that everyone say it's only the issue of NZ and Wales being similar. Hell no, Argentina, Mexico and Greece are basically all the same, with the only difference being how dense the forest is. San Remo, Corsica, Monte Carlo, same, basically the same, though MC has snow, so there's that. We could go on and on like this for a long time. Point is, NZ is similar to Wales. Face it.

Also, some people say that Poland looks similar to Finland... ehh, nope. Take the Germany stages we have in the game, add some lakes here and there and swap the tarmac for a dusty gravel and tarmac mixture. Done, you have the 2015 Polish rally. Germany and Poland have a rather similar flora. Though Poland is most likely not as "flat" as Germany is, in terms of land layout.

That could leave a few options,

1) Pick a location with veried and diverse terrain and look - San Remo, Germany panzerplat and vineyards country, Monte Carlo bottom to the top with changing weather, even USA is unique and a lot of diversity in some events.

2) Terrain deformation w/SIMULATED staggered starts - no cars on stage, but it simulates the severity based on weather and start position and deforms accordingly.
 
Either of these could add to the challenge of seeing the same area over and over again.  

There is is some backend work involved in TD but there is a lot of reuse in the tech, much like the physics engine.  For other DiRT spin offs as (Trucks, RX, anything off-road).  It's easy to write off and say it's not worth the time, but that could be said of most any part of the game, depending on perspective.






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gfRally said:
That could leave a few options,

1) Pick a location with veried and diverse terrain and look - San Remo, Germany panzerplat and vineyards country, Monte Carlo bottom to the top with changing weather, even USA is unique and a lot of diversity in some events.

2) Terrain deformation w/SIMULATED staggered starts - no cars on stage, but it simulates the severity based on weather and start position and deforms accordingly.
 
Either of these could add to the challenge of seeing the same area over and over again.  

There is is some backend work involved in TD but there is a lot of reuse in the tech, much like the physics engine.  For other DiRT spin offs as (Trucks, RX, anything off-road).  It's easy to write off and say it's not worth the time, but that could be said of most any part of the game, depending on perspective.
I definitely am for more variety. I personally think that the WRX license used properly could fuel a great esports competition for the game with a good implementation of ladders and spectator mode. But before that... anti-cheat. Everything online starts and ends on that one thing.

Also, if we have Rally, Pikes Peak and RX, then the obvious next step is... raid. More precisely, Rally Dakar. At that point we'll be having every big rally discipline (let's ignore the bumper cars disciplines, shall we?).

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gfRally said:
2) Terrain deformation w/SIMULATED staggered starts - no cars on stage, but it simulates the severity based on weather and start position and deforms accordingly.
Yes, I'd love this—hanging dust in the forested sections of Greece like in RX, (slightly) more likelihood of random rocks. They'd have to work out some way to form the running order (championship order for first 75% of event, reverse for final 25%?) and then the forums would be flooded with virtual Ogiers complaining. But it'd be worth it.

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tbtstt said:
tbtstt said:
tbtstt said:
I'd also like to know if the rumours are true and he will be running a Focus in the World RX. 
Yes please. I'm sick and tired of the Fiesta, bring on the proper rally Ford :D 
I must confess I much prefer the look of the Fiesta over the Focus. Ford will be keen to market the Focus RS though, so I using the Focus would make sense from a PR point.
The Fiesta is bigger then the Chevette, Sunbeam & Escort which all felt like real rally cars back in their day. I think it helped having the homologation specials as road going cars. These days it seems from a size perspective the Fiesta and Polo work as rally cars yet the roadgoing top performance versions are reserved for the more expensive Focus and Golf models. Obviously this is to maximise profits but it seems a shame we can't have the rally car matching the road car, then perhaps we wouldn't feel as if rally cars had become fast shopping cars?
Fully agree! I have been hoping for a number of years that Ford would produce an RS version of the Fiesta but, as you say, that sort of treatment seems to be reserved for the bigger models in the range.
Rumours are still that both a Fiesta RS and Polo R will come but it looks likely they will still fit in a hierarchy where the bigger brother Focus and Golf will be quicker. I'd love to see both be real beasts!

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gfRally said:


2) Terrain deformation w/SIMULATED staggered starts - no cars on stage, but it simulates the severity based on weather and start position and deforms accordingly.
 







This is what I would love to see in this game, would make it feel more like a rally. At the moment it is always like running first on the road. Would be awesome if they could do it and also implement it into the daily stages.

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gfRally said:

2) Terrain deformation w/SIMULATED staggered starts - no cars on stage, but it simulates the severity based on weather and start position and deforms accordingly.
This is what I would love to see in this game, would make it feel more like a rally. At the moment it is always like running first on the road. Would be awesome if they could do it and also implement it into the daily stages.
It would be awesome but experience with other sims suggests that anything dynamic that impacts multiplayer fairness can get a rough ride, even if more like the real world motorsports being simulated.

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gfRally said:

2) Terrain deformation w/SIMULATED staggered starts - no cars on stage, but it simulates the severity based on weather and start position and deforms accordingly.
This is what I would love to see in this game, would make it feel more like a rally. At the moment it is always like running first on the road. Would be awesome if they could do it and also implement it into the daily stages.
It would be awesome but experience with other sims suggests that anything dynamic that impacts multiplayer fairness can get a rough ride, even if more like the real world motorsports being simulated.

A simulation of the real world to simulate real world fairness?  :open_mouth: :)

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Right? ;)

However, the game/games in general lack the fidelity in the driving experience to take advantage of the changing road; it means you have to read the surface visually as well as feel it, you can't get enough feedback in a game for that, it's a real-life only thing at the moment.

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Right? ;)

However, the game/games in general lack the fidelity in the driving experience to take advantage of the changing road; it means you have to read the surface visually as well as feel it, you can't get enough feedback in a game for that, it's a real-life only thing at the moment.
Last time I checked we can see the road (you know, monitor/TV :p ) and those with good steering wheels can also feel the road through FFB (believe it or not, but the suspension FFB for my DualShock 4 does give me a nice feel of the road), so... how is it a real-life only thing again? ;)

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I'm assuming you drive IRL? ;)

You don't have the detail or the feedback of a real car, and that's what you'd need for it not to feel like a big unfair bag of crap.

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A few things about dynamic road surface. I agree with F2CMaDMaXX in that it would most likely be too early to implement something like this. I imagine it would be annoying to drive on if not perfected, and to perfect it wouldn't be worth the effort just to add a little bit more realism. Obviously I never know until I try though.

I guess if it were in career mode only then I don't have much of a problem with it, because you're only racing against AI. However, I'd have concerns about this being used in a competitive environment. Road deformation is one of those uncontrollable things that happens in real life rally. Given this is a PC game where we have the power to control the environment, we shouldn't inflict artificial disadvantages to the players who happen to be behind in starting order. If it gets put in, that's fine so long as we can choose whether to use it upon creating the league.

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Dynamic road surface is one of things I was thinking about some time ago (and recently discussed on our forum).
Adding some minor displacement into road 3d mesh shouldn't be a problem from technical point of view. The displacement shouldn't be too big to not require changes in co-pilot notes, but should stop blind driving. It would force drivers do drive a bit slower, leaving more margin for car reaction. As simple as it is.

Additionally I would allow adding some obstacles inside or outside corners if tech allows changes to be reflected in co-pilot notes (don't cut, stay in etc).

If some one worries about online fairness - there is no need. For online races/leagues, server should generate/share data used for track changes.

Next step seems to be logic: track surface (especially loose one) could change depending on previous drivers rides (transferring groves)

Of course, to stop potential moaning ;) , this feature should have an option to disable it when needed or to configure its behaviour (if applicable)

But before it, give us proper 3ple screen support as well as replay system ;)

with regards.


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I've been championing evolving stage conditions for a while now. And I know for a fact @KickUp would really like to have such a system/technology in place to do it justice...  But I also know that it's very difficult to get right and requires more time than we have until the release on the consoles.

Here are my posts about evolving stages:
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/104642#Comment_104642

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/1697#Comment_1697


My one wish... Dynamic stage conditions
- roads would change over time depending on number of cars that passes
- previous weather would have an effect on how and how quickly the stage conditions would change
- a bit of randomly generated holes and ruts
- feedback from safety crews to help the player gauge how much to push
- pace note additions to cover safety crew findings
- mud dragged onto tarmac
- gravel cleaning, less grip for the first car on the road, gradual increase in grip levels if you stay on the line

This thread is not really meant to be a wishlist, but a feature like the above was never seen in Codies games and I think it would have made @KickUp smile.

But... when I put my Gossip hat on I don't think it's the one hinted. I suspect the game engine version used in DiRT Rally may limit how much 'evolution' the stage can have.

If I'm proven wrong about this I'd be VERY happy though :)

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The thing is, a dynamic mesh that reacts in real-time requires massively more processing power than a static one and that's a big deal when it's applied to stages as long as those in DiRT Rally.

Sega Racing Studio did a number of technical feature videos on the development of Sega Rally (Revo), including the dynamic road surface, but they were never uploaded to Youtube and had to be downloaded via PSN or Xbox Live. Who knows if they are still on those servers.

It's worth keeping in mind that people who worked on Sega Rally Revo/Sega Rally 3 worked on DiRT Rally as well. Like our own @MrJamieLowes 
So there are people on the DiRT Rally team that know all about implementing such a feature and just how worthwhile it is.

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