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it is obviously worth while its whether its worth their time to put in.

this game is more enough done for pc users.so i cant see that being implemented in this game. unless modded in.

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I've never played Sega Rally and I was really suprised when I've seen on some of your video that there was a dynamic road surface in such old game. It's a feature I've been dreaming about since I've played Rally Championship 2000 for the first time (my first rally game). In my head it's most important parts are:
  • Mud and grass thrown into the road from corner cutting, the place where corner is cutted should be more deep after each car (more wet conditions = faster digging), on a second leg you might scratch the tarmac where it ends with bottom of your car
  • First few cars creating a road line for others with significant strong that tyres have to dig through the gravel to the more hard surface underneath it
  • Alot of random bigger and smaller rocks on gravel stages (we've had that for a while but I didn't meet one since 1.0)
  • Smaller suprises in tarmac stages on corner cuttings (i.e. a tree root which's very often)
  • Leg system. First leg the road is not so bad. Second leg is a lot harder and the road is totally devastated.
  • Optional: dynamic spectators - changing their places as well as individuals in weird places hiding behind trees. Most likely alive.

Unfortunately I don't think it's possible with current technology (well it is, but not how I imagine it). Maybe in a decade or two.

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dgeesi0 said:
it is obviously worth while its whether its worth their time to put in.

this game is more enough done for pc users.so i cant see that being implemented in this game. unless modded in.
It's more than time and money.
It's also how significant a performance impact it might have and whether that would force things like significantly shorter stages.

It's very much a case of if it's worth it or not.

Always worth keeping a mind that Sega Rally had multiple cars on track and was also lap based, so the road evolution, especially in things like wet mud where all the cars would REALLY dig in and create massive grooves, was very significant.
While the driving isn't the best, this shows how the mesh would deform depending on the type of surface it was representing.
If you stayed in the grooves, they would get deeper every lap, and this deformation also expanded beyond the edges of the main road.
You could even go deep enough into mud to reveal water underneath.
To make it clear, this is the 3D mesh of the track actively changing, not just textures being applied and surface properties changing.
As you can also see, stages in Sega Rally were also short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC6a-YmdI9g 

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I really need to jump in here, my original post was about a future game all together, I'm not sure I was clear about that.  No chance anything major could be added before April.  Sorry to lead this into gossip about current game.

now about terrain deformation, I am talking about pre-simulating the change in terrain, not real time.  It would be great for real time sure, but it doesn't have to be real time for the effect to work on gameplay.  I'm not sure how to explain it clearly, but based on your position on the stage the game would simulate (mathematically) the other cars run and lines, even an off.  This would change the look of the road from a previous run.  If you are first on the road, then it will be clean, but you may not fine the best line or grip or what ever advantage/disadvantage that allows.

If a car gas an off and digs into the terrain, then that would be somewhat visible and possibly the car will be there as well.

Point being each run would be different and challenging, it would take more reading and less memory of the road.  So having a limited number of locations and stages you could expand the experience in a different way.

Again this all started with me asking a question about how could the Franchise expand stage rally without traveling around the world only to create a location with a similar color palette :)

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gfRally said:
I really need to jump in here, my original post was about a future game all together, I'm not sure I was clear about that.  No chance anything major could be added before April.  Sorry to lead this into gossip about current game.
To be clear, I'm still talking about future games as well. 

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In DiRT facebook they posted a tbt of the CMR1, which in the box have Colin's Subaru... Maybe what they wanted this 5 years was the Subaru Impreza (dont want to say the exact name because i am maybe wrong and here there are a lot of subbie fans) but i think it is the 22b

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gfRally said:
now about terrain deformation, I am talking about pre-simulating the change in terrain, not real time.  It would be great for real time sure, but it doesn't have to be real time for the effect to work on gameplay.  I'm not sure how to explain it clearly, but based on your position on the stage the game would simulate (mathematically) the other cars run and lines, even an off.  This would change the look of the road from a previous run.  If you are first on the road, then it will be clean, but you may not fine the best line or grip or what ever advantage/disadvantage that allows.
It's still real time. It has to be in order to be dynamic.
You might be able to to just use an algorithm to generate the track conditions, but the mesh of the road and it's surroundings has to be more complicated in order to be manipulated. The 'new' mesh is still being rendered in real time, even if you're not watching the changes being made, and would feature significantly more polygons than what is in the game right now.

Like I've said, this isn't new tech by any means, but it's not a commonly adopted one.
So ask yourself why it didn't become an industry standard after Sega Rally did it nearly a decade ago. 
(plus then you have the issue of a level playing field given the nature of how Codies want the community aspect to be implemented - leaderboards & leagues)

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In DiRT facebook they posted a tbt of the CMR1, which in the box have Colin's Subaru... Maybe what they wanted this 5 years was the Subaru Impreza (dont want to say the exact name because i am maybe wrong and here there are a lot of subbie fans) but i think it is the 22b
I may be wrong here, but isn't that the 1995 GrpA that's currently in the game?

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i also wish the last model of impreza

but in wich class it would  fit??  R4???   kinda sad :(

no more sedan in wrc make me feel sad.    only micromachines now :°(

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I hope this would be a gossip material; it was posted on Facebook. By the way, 1997 Impreza GC8D or arguably whatever lol

It was a tbt, not sure if a gossip material or not because in this thread it has been lately debated that there are no mentions of cars addons.

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BrySkye said:
[...]

Like I've said, this isn't new tech by any means, but it's not a commonly adopted one.
So ask yourself why it didn't become an industry standard after Sega Rally did it nearly a decade ago.
 
[...]
To be fair, how much do we know about the tech that was in SEGA Rally at that time? How does it affect the physics of the car? Is the car just driving "on top" of everything and the groves are just visual flair?

The technology to make three dimensional groves in the terrain exists in a couple of games, the mentioned SEGA Rally and Spintires are the first that comes to mind for me. I'm sure there are other examples. However the engine used in DiRT most likely does not support it and it is something that might be very troublesome to add, both from a timeline point of view but also from a technical perspective. It might even be that it is impossible in the engine as of today because of some decision that was taken years ago.

All of this is just speculations of course, but it is often the case in my line of work that some area of the code base that was written sometimes back in the day is preventing us from achieving what we actually want to do because it would have a huge impact on a lot of other stuff. It's a bit cumbersome to explain, but products like these have lots of very complex components, and if you change one particular part it might have domino effects that will be a problem in many different components, and updating them all is just not feasible. I have never written a physics and graphics engine, but I could well imagine that this is really tough stuff to get right. Toss in multiplayer and the synchronizations that you need between clients in the mix as well and you might be facing a task that just is not possible or to costly, or whatever.   

TL;DR:
My guess as to why it is not commonly adopted is quite simply that it is really, really hard to do it, or at least to do it well. 

Having said all that, I still think it would be great! But I can appreciate why it's not an industry standard. 

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The MX vs ATV series did terrain deformation pretty well, you would have lines that got too rutted out during a race and you had to switch lines, or the opposite, a rut formed that you could rail a corner in.

For rally tho, I don't see why people would want road sweeping in the game, it is the one thing drivers consistently complain the most about through the decades, no matter how much they change the running order rules.

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dotmartin said:
BrySkye said:
[...]

Like I've said, this isn't new tech by any means, but it's not a commonly adopted one.
So ask yourself why it didn't become an industry standard after Sega Rally did it nearly a decade ago.
 
[...]
To be fair, how much do we know about the tech that was in SEGA Rally at that time? How does it affect the physics of the car? Is the car just driving "on top" of everything and the groves are just visual flair? 
We know a lot.
Like I said, there were technical videos discussing the technology and showing how it worked.
They completely affected the physics of the car, you can see that in the videos yourself.
It was the games major selling point.
It might not have been entirely realistic with how it did it, still a very much arcade style game after all, but if you played it, the affect they had was pretty striking. Staying precisely in the grooves would generally lead to faster and faster times each lap, but skipping out of them could be dramatic.

Watch this from 4:10 
I think it'll help everyone get a better understanding of what it involves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdqeu-2bTT8

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BrySkye said:
dotmartin said:
BrySkye said:
[...]

Like I've said, this isn't new tech by any means, but it's not a commonly adopted one.
So ask yourself why it didn't become an industry standard after Sega Rally did it nearly a decade ago.
 
[...]
To be fair, how much do we know about the tech that was in SEGA Rally at that time? How does it affect the physics of the car? Is the car just driving "on top" of everything and the groves are just visual flair? 
We know a lot.
Like I said, there were technical videos discussing the technology and showing how it worked.
They completely affected the physics of the car, you can see that in the videos yourself.
It was the games major selling point.
It might not have been entirely realistic with how it did it, still a very much arcade style game after all, but if you played it, the affect they had was pretty striking. Staying precisely in the grooves would generally lead to faster and faster times each lap, but skipping out of them could be dramatic.

Watch this from 4:10 
I think it'll help everyone get a better understanding of what it involves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdqeu-2bTT8
This would be incredible to have in DiRT Rally, because depending on where you finish on the day depends on which order the cars run in on the next; this could mean being 6th on the stage would cause some corners to be more tricky and "hooky" than if you were the road sweeper, which on the other end of the scale would make the stage more slippy. 

Essentially, this tech could be used to simulate a running order, and I'd also like to see some hanging dust on some of the Greek stages, again as if a car has just gone through before you. 

This would add a significant chunk of authenticity, however I'm not sure how much work would have to be done to implement this into the game in it's current state. 

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Really cool! Thanks for posting the video @BrySkye . 

I haven't played the game so I really do not know how it felt and so on. Judging from the video it looks serious but at the same time sort of gimmicky, I can still see why it might be troublesome to implement it on bigger maps as was pointed out earlier. 

Given that, I really would like to see it in action in a modern rally sim for exactly the reasons that @enamel is talking about, just to get a feel for why there is so much fuzz about road cleaning. It plays a big part in modern rallying so striving to achieve it would probably be a good idea. 

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Just thought I would drop this in here.

https://twitter.com/Ryu_Makkuro/status/687613314843676672
https://twitter.com/Kick_Up/status/687614601496805376

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Well, it's one of those dreaded two-part-questions. Does "Think so" mean "yes, there is gonna be a roadbook tomorrow" or "No, we're skipping this time"?

Probably the first one. Definitely hope so.

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Hmm, might be onto something possible here, you wouldn't actually need to do *that* much so far as calculations were concerned, it would be more a 'record' of where you went if you were first, and then simulated cars in front for the stage to be be created live each time (from simulated records, not in real time)  

Basically, have a base stage as we have now, choose how many cars will have run the stage in front of you, apply pre-calculated 'ruts' etc. to the stage, which would obviously have variances as part of their formation, and then 'compile/build' the version of the track you see on stage load.  It would cause longer load times, but might be pretty nice to experience the variation :)  I'm onboard with this version.

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Hmm, might be onto something possible here, you wouldn't actually need to do *that* much so far as calculations were concerned, it would be more a 'record' of where you went if you were first, and then simulated cars in front for the stage to be be created live each time (from simulated records, not in real time)  

Basically, have a base stage as we have now, choose how many cars will have run the stage in front of you, apply pre-calculated 'ruts' etc. to the stage, which would obviously have variances as part of their formation, and then 'compile/build' the version of the track you see on stage load.  It would cause longer load times, but might be pretty nice to experience the variation :)  I'm onboard with this version.
It would mean that we'd have to read the road, like so many drivers comment on having to do when the stage conditions change so much either due to road order or weather 

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YoMrWhite said:

Well, it's one of those dreaded two-part-questions. Does "Think so" mean "yes, there is gonna be a roadbook tomorrow" or "No, we're skipping this time"?

Probably the first one. Definitely hope so.

I'm going to say if they can pull together some content for one in time, they'll do it.  But it's post-release, and i don't think they're ready to release content/changes/features stuff just yet, so it's likely going to be light on substance :(  I'll still take something over nothing though.

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The problem is in the track layout. SR had closed circuits so it was rather easy for the game engine to implement dynamic changes during one race. I don't see how it could be achieved on A to B tracks in DR, where the stages are loaded each time.

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