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Job3k said:
Its not possible to make a any car any track mod for dirt rally like in dirt 3?
Doesn't seem like it. 
In DiRT 3, we could edit the databases. That's how we could add completely new liveries and car tiles instead of just replacing existing ones.
That could also be used to put any car on any track in a 'legit' way as far as the game was concerned.
Security for the data in DiRT Rally went through the roof, with more of that data put into much harder to edit files. Maybe even ones beyond being practical to crack. 
It's a much less moddable game than D3 was. 
The price paid to try and increase the integrity of the game leaderboard component.
Once v2 handling started rolling out, we can't even swap car models and physics anymore.
We have to swap out whole tracks, which brings it's own problems and I honestly wouldn't be surprised that Codies would put in some effort to stop that from working too.

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Sorry to be a party pooper (and in the words of the Feeder song, it's just the way I'm feeling)  I'm not excited at all about the new content. The 208 T16 PP is a nice addition which I look forward to driving but apart from that I'm a little disappointed, all gravel Pikes Peak is great but it soon gets a bit repetitive taking the same 3 cars up there.

Rallycross content is just a bit meh for me. No new tracks just 4 new cars which 3 of them I feel would be better off having as rally cars. I can see why they have introduced them though, works as a better build up towards the supercars class and adds a bit more playability to the rally cross championships. 

I am impressed to see the McRae liveries though, that's a very nice touch I think, particularly getting the 95 Impreza livery, got to be a first for a console game? It's nice that us PC users will get this content for free too. 

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"While I think it's vitally important that we did what we did with Dirt Rally directly to the core audience first, what I want to do now is take people who are excited by seeing Dirt Rally but a little bit put off by what it means to play it, take them by the hand and lead them into the experience. I'm not talking about dumbing down. I'm talking about taking novice players and making them confident and capable."
I have to say that it's a little bit worrying.
On the first side of the coin it could mean that DR will follow it's current route while having added some more RPG like campaign style with more help for people that aren't into rally yet (Rewinding, More assists like green/red lines, auto-braking, etc.). and will continue i.e. as a sequel.
On the other hand it could mean temporary dumping DR and creating something along DiRT 4 with more elements of DR to bring more newbies.

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Rallycameraman said:
particularly getting the 95 Impreza livery, got to be a first for a console game?  
First for a Codies game, but the livery has been in others before. It's technically even in SLRE remember.

Sega Rally 2 for the Dreamcast had it all the way back in 1998.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfCJekVHM8E
The livery choice in that game was almost perfect actually. About as complete as you can get for a game that didn't have a WRC license.
Especially the Japanese version which had the Group A Ford Escort, but removed from the Intl releases.

Everything had a proper livery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3WfBm0gCSQ

I'd say the Sega Rally 2 car/livery list should really be the starting block for every rally game that will ever be made. :P 

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BrySkye said:
Rallycameraman said:
particularly getting the 95 Impreza livery, got to be a first for a console game?  
First for a Codies game, but the livery has been in others before. It's technically even in SLRE remember.

Sega Rally 2 for the Dreamcast had it all the way back in 1998.

The livery choice in that game was almost perfect actually. About as complete as you can get for a game that didn't have a WRC license.
Back then it wasn't as difficult as today. V-Rally 1 and 2, Colin Mcrae Rally 1 and 2.., all they have perfect liveries without any WRC license. Perhaps all started when the official WRC games appeared on the PS2.

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Not perfect.
With the exception of the original Sega Rally which actually had the proper Martini logo and "Martini Racing" on it's Lancia Delta, all subsequent games have had the legally required amount of censoring of alcohol & tobacco.
It's still doable. V-Rally 3 still had them all, which also came out after the first official WRC PS2 game. So did Sega Rally (Revo/2006).
Mind you, the license doesn't have to be exclusive to one game.
People forget that in 2010, there were two officially licensed WRC games. Milestones first WRC effort and Gran Turismo 5.
Ironically enough. GT5 had a mode called the 
Sébastien Loeb Rally Challenge.
That kind of went full circle in the end.

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BrySkye said:
Not perfect.
With the exception of the original Sega Rally which actually had the proper Martini logo and "Martini Racing" on it's Lancia Delta, all subsequent games have had the legally required amount of censoring of alcohol & tobacco.
It's still doable. V-Rally 3 still had them all, which also came out after the first official WRC PS2 game. So did Sega Rally (Revo/2006).
Mind you, the license doesn't have to be exclusive to one game.
People forget that in 2010, there were two officially licensed WRC games. Milestones first WRC effort and Gran Turismo 5.
Ironically enough. GT5 had a mode called the Sébastien Loeb Rally Challenge.
That kind of went full circle in the end.
You are right about Martini and Sega Rally but I think it was more about alcohol and tobacco in videogames that license issues.
You are wrong about V-Rally 3. It has the Impreza America Team livery, and RS Focus (similar to CMR04/05) The Mitsubishi has not Ralliart logos and 206 or Xsara have not Total on it, what makes my point stronger. Nervertheless I don't say is impossible to have the licenses, I only say is more difficult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlGq9s93pw4

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Underkex said:
Back then it wasn't as difficult as today. V-Rally 1 and 2, Colin Mcrae Rally 1 and 2.., all they have perfect liveries without any WRC license. Perhaps all started when the official WRC games appeared on the PS2.
Actually CMR 1,2 & 3 did all had the official wrc license. That explains the loss of such world rally team liveries in the following games.

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austinb said:
Underkex said:
Back then it wasn't as difficult as today. V-Rally 1 and 2, Colin Mcrae Rally 1 and 2.., all they have perfect liveries without any WRC license. Perhaps all started when the official WRC games appeared on the PS2.
Actually CMR 1,2 & 3 did all had the official wrc license. That explains the loss of such world rally team liveries in the following games.
They didn't, that's a myth. Generally started because CMR had all the drivers. You'll find on the box and manual explicitly state the game is not authorised or licensed by the WRC.

I feel wires got a little crossed. I wasn't referring to WRC liveries specifically, I was referring to official liveries in general and passable approximations of them.
Subaru Team USA is an official livery, as was the Focus RS one.
They weren't completely fictional like a number of the ones we got in DiRT 3 and in DiRT Rally.
A few logos missing here and there doesn't mean anything. None of the Rally or Hillclimb liveries in DiRT Rally are 100% correct with every single sponsor logo.

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I think the new content is most beneficial for new players, as they are all base level cars.

Oh and I was right earlier, mini RX cars will be similar price to 60's to act as a new starting place for the game

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Nice update but sad to see that there is no love for the S2000. Would love to see the 207 S2000... ☺

I really hope they will implement some S2000/R5 for us rally nuts...

But this is great news but with this two "new" Peugeot, please bring the 208 R5!

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I have to admit I'm a bit worried about the suggestions in the article that Codemasters are now moving on to DiRT 4....

'While I think it's vitally important that we did what we did with Dirt Rally directly to the core audience first, what I want to do now is take people who are excited by seeing Dirt Rally but a little bit put off by what it means to play it, take them by the hand and lead them into the experience. I'm not talking about dumbing down. I'm talking about taking novice players and making them confident and capable.'

The above is quite cryptic and I honestly don't know what to expect. This just proves I wouldn't make a good games designer :)


"We could create a short-term fix and offer a couple of new locations over the course of a year - don't forget we had the art team creating tracks since [development on Dirt Rally began in] 2012, and we'd front-loaded a lot of stuff - rather than delaying the inevitable we're going to see what changes we can make to the engine so we can deliver the more challenging things we haven't done just yet. So there are no plans for the near future, because we want to fundamentally improve the engine to make something bigger and better."

I don't get the impression that he's talking about Dirt 4. It's possible that he simply means having a rally school in the next game.

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It's probably worth consider that while most of us here see DiRT Rally as the future of the franchise and are thinking in terms of DiRT Rally 2 rather than DiRT 4, the gaming world at large, especially journalists, will be thinking of DiRT Rally more as a spin-off along the lines of DiRT Showdown.
So they'll throw around "DiRT 4" more than us.

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Isn't the solution to the content problem for us early access goers to free up the mod capabilities? This need not happen until 6 months into the console launch, but giving just a little freedom over mod capability would enhance the longevity of the game and keep it fresh. In my wildest dreams, whilst not being ideal, being able to import tracks or stages from previous DiRT games on the ego engine would be a solution. That's just my thoughts.

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Highly unlikely.  A lot of licensing stuff means actively doing so would break some of their licensing deals for cars particularly.

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It is highly unlikely but I just wonder how long those licence deals last from previous games in the series. Besides, adding previous stages or tracks whilst still being illegal has been done for the F1 series past. I'm also sure that publicising and creating non approved liveries is a breach of license as it is. 

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I don't think the strict security in place to prevent a whole lot of modding has much to do with licensing agreements.
After all, we can replace skins still, even though we specifically know that the licensing deals with Audi and Citroen specifically do not allow anything but the approved liveries currently in the game.

I'll bet money it's more because the whole game was build around online integration. 
Remember, it was going to be called DiRT Delta. The online leaderboard and community delta is that integral to the concept.

There's a difference between not supporting or enabling (as in providing tools for) modding and putting systems in place that actively prevent it, such as infinite loading loops and CTD's if certain files aren't right.
That's not going to get changed, because the reason it's there isn't going to change. To stop it being exploited. 
I almost wish I had a separate installation of 0.5 still, so I could easily put any car on Pikes Peak with the correct performance and no trouble. 

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Reading the Eurogamer article was interesting to say the least...

I had hopes for new rally stages or locations, but at the back of my mind I knew that their development would have had to have started a while back.

On one hand it's good to have it bluntly stated that no DLC is coming... A bit of a shame, because the wait for DiRT Rally was long and the thought of waiting longer for more of the DR awesomeness is a bit sad.

I have to admit I'm a bit worried about the suggestions in the article that Codemasters are now moving on to DiRT 4....

Would they really abandon the vision of DiRT Rally? Can't they really see how it's been received so far? Maybe they need to see how it does sales-wise on consoles.

'While I think it's vitally important that we did what we did with Dirt Rally directly to the core audience first, what I want to do now is take people who are excited by seeing Dirt Rally but a little bit put off by what it means to play it, take them by the hand and lead them into the experience. I'm not talking about dumbing down. I'm talking about taking novice players and making them confident and capable.'

The above is quite cryptic and I honestly don't know what to expect. This just proves I wouldn't make a good games designer :)

'a little bit put off by what it means to play it' - Hmmm?

I'll have to think this over :)

@MastaVonBlasta 

Ok, here is my take on it after reading the article and your post a couple of times now.  

There are a couple of pieces that stick out for me.
"From my perspective, a lot of the stuff players have been asking us to do we've managed to achieve," Coleman said. "There's a bunch of stuff they've been asking us to do that's beyond the capabilities of the engine as it stands, and one of those things is a much broader selection of tracks."

"We could create a short-term fix and offer a couple of new locations over the course of a year - don't forget we had the art team creating tracks since [development on Dirt Rally began in] 2012, and we'd front-loaded a lot of stuff - rather than delaying the inevitable we're going to see what changes we can make to the engine so we can deliver the more challenging things we haven't done just yet. So there are no plans for the near future, because we want to fundamentally improve the engine to make something bigger and better."

 "I'm not talking about dumbing down. I'm talking about taking novice players and making them confident and capable."

Hopefully everyone can see what I text bolded.  

I also have that Survey from a while ago in the back of my mind.  So drawing on that a little, looking at what my <non-rally friends> like to play, some business knowledge and a bit of a level head not let my passion get in the way.   Here is how I see it, they have maxed out the engine with what they have accomplished and doesn't sound like its an easy tweak or upgrade.  Think about what we have been talking about over the last month:  Terrain deformation (just example), longer stages (of course), renamed camera and recording system, and we could all debate about many more.  @kickup has noted on several occasions that different wishlist items are "currently not possible" due to current tech used in the game.  It was mentioned in a livestream about replay cameras that I asked about, and a few others asked for things that had a similar answer that currently the tech isn't in the engine.  

Suppose (please no debate, just using an example) they wanted to do Dakar.  1) you will need really long stages to even have the likeliness of this type of rally  2) when you come to the sand, what do you do with it?  How does the engine handle digging into axel deep terrain that deforms and has extremely different and demanding charicteristics from anything we have now.  3) how the heck to you get someone coming from "hey thats a cool box cover" to playing and understanding the sport and ending up enjoying something like Dakar.

This is what I feel they are running into:  Taking the game to the next level with graphics, leaping over (or farther from) the competition, and reaching larger audiences.

Are you still with me?  

The next game from DiRT team is not going to be micro machines rally.  They didn't invest all of this time and research on a physics engine to just abandon it for something that is simple for us Fat Americans to understand. Its about "taking novice players and making them confident and capable", its more about HELPING players to get from say amateur to WRC to Dakar (Loeb's choices) and making that journey not boring for newcomers to rally.  

So there is a good future for everyone, unfortunately (NO DLC :neutral:) we will have to be patient for some time until that happens, its in good hands.

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@gfRally

very true, I saw that side of the medal aswell, agree with everything 100% (and if I have to endure a Dakar game for procedurally generated rally stages so be it)

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kobeshow said:
@gfRally

very true, I saw that side of the medal aswell, agree with everything 100% (and if I have to endure a Dakar game for procedurally generated rally stages so be it)
? That's nothing new. Even V-Rally 2 had a random stage generator on the Playstation.
Thing is, people wanted real stages rather than completely fictional ones generated by code.
The way pace notes were done in DiRT Rally would also be impossible on a generated stage.
Unless you're talking about a real stage, but with the scenery generated at random which... seems odd.

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Azoresst said:
Btw @JonTucker is everywhere! :smiley:               
I would be damned if I wake up the morning staring at me and telling me: Get your arse back to DR already! :D

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