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bogani said:
SamRWD said:
Evilsmurf said:

Ironically, some said the physics in DR were wrong, and now Codemasters have gone and corrected it for D4, some people still say it's wrong!?  :D

What's ironic about that? Let's say you make a rally game, but you make a mistake and you make cars go reverse instead of forward. Then you try to fix it, but this time cars move sideways. It is different from before, but it is still not correct. We had a huge topic going on in the past where we were discussing DR physics. Ironically some people said it was realistic. Now same people say Dirt 4 is realistic. That means since Dirt 4 is an IMPROVEMENT, DR was indeed not realistic and they were wrong since the beginning. Ironically ;)
Realistic isn't black or white though. With that argument nothing is ever realistic as thing get patched, endless new tire models come out(looking at you AC) etc etc. Improvements can and will always be made to products that still deem themself as realistic.
Correct, I think D4 is much, much more realistic than Dirt Rally. It doesn't mean we cannot point out where it still lacks, and how we think it could be improved further to make it closer to 100% realistic.  I just shared some concernes I have after watching D4 footage. I don't understand why that would be ironicall at all, that was the reason I wrote that.

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Sam, in the sentence used, ironic was correct, no confusion upon the meaning or use of the word there.

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Sam, in the sentence used, ironic was correct, no confusion upon the meaning or use of the word there.
Let's pretend I say "Dirt X" was not realistic. Let's also pretend later I say "Dirt Y" is better than "Dirt X", but here are things I am concerned about: A,B,C.

What is ironic about that? 

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SamRWD said:
Sam, in the sentence used, ironic was correct, no confusion upon the meaning or use of the word there.
Let's pretend I say "Dirt X" was not realistic. Let's also pretend later I say "Dirt Y" is better than "Dirt X", but here are things I am concerned about: A,B,C.

What is ironic about that? 
Because you keep missing the middle of the sentence, the modifier if you will.
Bolded for your benefit.

"Ironically, some said the physics in DR were wrong, and now Codemasters have gone and corrected it for D4, some people still say it's wrong!?"

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SamRWD said:
Sam, in the sentence used, ironic was correct, no confusion upon the meaning or use of the word there.
Let's pretend I say "Dirt X" was not realistic. Let's also pretend later I say "Dirt Y" is better than "Dirt X", but here are things I am concerned about: A,B,C.

What is ironic about that? 
Because you keep missing the middle of the sentence, the modifier if you will.
Bolded for your benefit.

"Ironically, some said the physics in DR were wrong, and now Codemasters have gone and corrected it for D4, some people still say it's wrong!?"
Thanks!
English is not my first language obviously, unless there is a some kind of word play I don't get the irony :(

BTW did you guys notice that Your Stage onboards don't come with length calls for corners from codriver? I hardly remember ever hearing "long" call...

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Oh, they come with them alright, obviously depending on the corner, i had a load in the weekly i just completed.

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KevM said:
Best decide for ourselves to be honest. 

Iv yet to see someone driving proper aggressive like in DR.  
i failed master.... :'(

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urgaffel said:
BadD0g said:
I'm thinking a lot of the comments will be from people who are used to DR thinking there's too much grip by comparison.
...
Maybe opinions will change when everyone's had a while to get used to the game.
That's my feeling as well. It's going to feel different from Dirt Rally because it's different from Dirt Rally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 I think it's better and most people who have played it think it's an improvement (like Porkhammer and dgeesi0). Doesn't mean everyone will love it because you can't please everyone :D

(also, preconceptions play a part, e.g. this isn't what I expected it to be, therefore it's not as good)

this tbh.at first i wasnt sure...i played Dirt rally till blind folded knew it inside out.with this needed to adjust but now i am starting to dial it in i am realizing we are getting close to the perfect rally game or the best rally game made.only honest criticism i have is in hairpins the car doesnt want to turn but thats a small thing when in its entirity its better than anything before. i think codemasters is the people to make rally games. at some point they will make the perfect game we want its just making a " perfect game " is almost impossible ;)

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urgaffel said:
BadD0g said:
I'm thinking a lot of the comments will be from people who are used to DR thinking there's too much grip by comparison.
...
Maybe opinions will change when everyone's had a while to get used to the game.
That's my feeling as well. It's going to feel different from Dirt Rally because it's different from Dirt Rally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 I think it's better and most people who have played it think it's an improvement (like Porkhammer and dgeesi0). Doesn't mean everyone will love it because you can't please everyone :D

(also, preconceptions play a part, e.g. this isn't what I expected it to be, therefore it's not as good)

All I know is, in DR I basically actively avoid Germany, Pikes Peak, and Sweden. I mainly suck at Sweden, but I couldn't ever get the hang of Germany or PP, the physics just didn't match what the wheel was throwing out.
So if I don't avoid Tarmac like the plague then it's an improvement.

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Not that I don't like current D4 soundtrack but I've got a nostalgia moment.

When will times of such soundtracks comeback?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaFmLFalx50&list=PL416C0EA752DDDF2E

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JZStudios said:
urgaffel said:
BadD0g said:
I'm thinking a lot of the comments will be from people who are used to DR thinking there's too much grip by comparison.
...
Maybe opinions will change when everyone's had a while to get used to the game.
That's my feeling as well. It's going to feel different from Dirt Rally because it's different from Dirt Rally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 I think it's better and most people who have played it think it's an improvement (like Porkhammer and dgeesi0). Doesn't mean everyone will love it because you can't please everyone :D

(also, preconceptions play a part, e.g. this isn't what I expected it to be, therefore it's not as good)

All I know is, in DR I basically actively avoid Germany, Pikes Peak, and Sweden. I mainly suck at Sweden, but I couldn't ever get the hang of Germany or PP, the physics just didn't match what the wheel was throwing out.
So if I don't avoid Tarmac like the plague then it's an improvement.
When Sweden had just come out I hated it for the snowbanks, but lamented the fact I couldn't enjoy it because the stages were so fun. 

After a year's worth of RBR when my GPU went bust, Sweden became so enjoyable it was almost criminal! 

(Not really sure what point I wanted to make, just wanted to share a story :) )

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urgaffel said:
One last point, I don't think people have really gone deep into the tuning aspect of things yet. That's going to change the way cars feel and handle too so you know, there are a lot of variables at play.
It didn't do much to the RS200 Rallycross. It still acted like a front wheel drive car. :(

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versedi said:
Not that I don't like current D4 soundtrack but I've got a nostalgia moment.

When will times of such soundtracks comeback?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaFmLFalx50&list=PL416C0EA752DDDF2E
When the 90's come back. It's high energy, but that's about it.

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What is funny in physics related discussion, statements about physisc accuracy are made based on videos. You cannot judge accuracy this way. Only rough guess when noticing unexpected car movement can be considered valid.
I found one, but enough to take it seriously. When car changes direction rapidly (ie when driver is using handbrake) there is no momentum throwing car sideway. The car just turns and follows new direction. I've seen this behavior on RX videos as well as on Porky's ones. I guess Porkhammer is using simulation mode which is what alerted me even more. Seems like lateral grip is way to high.

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That's what I am saying. As soon as the car goes sideway, it loses all the momentum.
This was present in DR and judging by the videos is still present in D4.

Maybe someone with enough skill can make a test in the Dirtfish area.
Drive at let's say 100 mph and
- brake with ABS
- brake manually (Threshold braking)
- brake with handbrake and throw the car sideways

I suspect the third option will result in the shortest deceleration distance, which it shouldn't.


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That's what I am saying. As soon as the car goes sideway, it loses all the momentum.
This was present in DR and judging by the videos is still present in D4.

Maybe someone with enough skill can make a test in the Dirtfish area.
Drive at let's say 100 mph and
- brake with ABS
- brake manually (Threshold braking)
- brake with handbrake and throw the car sideways

I suspect the third option will result in the shortest deceleration distance, which it shouldn't.


It's more likely to roll doing that.

The issue you're referring to in DR about losing momentum when you threw it far enough round, is not present in D4.

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That's what I am saying. As soon as the car goes sideway, it loses all the momentum.
This was present in DR and judging by the videos is still present in D4.

Maybe someone with enough skill can make a test in the Dirtfish area.
Drive at let's say 100 mph and
- brake with ABS
- brake manually (Threshold braking)
- brake with handbrake and throw the car sideways

I suspect the third option will result in the shortest deceleration distance, which it shouldn't.


Hey,

Included with ABS, no ABS, handbrake only and general playing around. Default setup

Obviously I should have started braking at the same point, but I have no time right now to do it again, but you get the general idea..

https://youtu.be/tDgCJFOTZLI

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dgeesi0 said:

KevM said:
Best decide for ourselves to be honest. 

Iv yet to see someone driving proper aggressive like in DR.  
i failed master.... :'(
I mean proper sideways rev-limiter stuff.

Everything looks quite tame & controlled.  Probably nice & quick but where's the craziness?  

I was having a go at the DR weekly in the Manta 400 & it's never straight in a Welsh forest!!  The 037/6R4 is even better fun, but it seems to have lost its mojo...  :(

You lads aren't still driving D4 with your old World Record button on, are you?  Lol (jk)

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@bogani, thanx for video.
Hmm. So car rolling 100km/h needs only 20-30m to stop while using handbrake and sliding sideways over dirt surface?
Really?

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KevM said:
dgeesi0 said:

KevM said:
Best decide for ourselves to be honest. 

Iv yet to see someone driving proper aggressive like in DR.  
i failed master.... :'(
I mean proper sideways rev-limiter stuff.

Everything looks quite tame & controlled.  Probably nice & quick but where's the craziness?  
That usually get's you parked up a tree. And I don't think it's fair comparing it to DR, where people have learned the tracks. It's easier to go crazy when you know the track

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BadD0g said:
I'm thinking a lot of the comments will be from people who are used to DR thinking there's too much grip by comparison. It'd be best to have a rally driver who hasn't played DR try it for an unbiased opinion. Maybe opinions will change when everyone's had a while to get used to the game.
I'm just speaking from my own experience as a hobby rally driver, driving a not so beastly FWD Nissan Almera GTi on both gravel, tarmac and snow events in Norway. Last weekend I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to rally a Ford Fiesta R2 - and have in the past tested Subaru Impreza Group N, Mercedes 190 and Opel Astra kit car rally cars, plus had a ride in a couple of WRC's. I have spoken to a couple of people with rallying experience who have tested D4 who have said the same as me.

I'm not trying to speak DiRT 4 down for you guys, but I am just a little sceptical to the way the cars handle in rally mode. As mentioned earlier, the rallycross and landrush physics seem very good!

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Didzis said:
KevM said:
dgeesi0 said:

KevM said:
Best decide for ourselves to be honest. 

Iv yet to see someone driving proper aggressive like in DR.  
i failed master.... :'(
I mean proper sideways rev-limiter stuff.

Everything looks quite tame & controlled.  Probably nice & quick but where's the craziness?  
That usually get's you parked up a tree. And I don't think it's fair comparing it to DR, where people have learned the tracks. It's easier to go crazy when you know the track
You don't need to know a track to set the back-end out in a Grp B RWD in every corner, or up straights, or anywhere that the throttle is applied 

The cars can tail-out.  Iv just not seen it on a Rally stage yet...
https://youtu.be/rejX0NX1VAc

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Another thing that concerns me watching some videos, is that the tyre noise with regards to grip level starts way too late.

For example here: Watch from 3:30 when he's in the DirtFish area.
https://youtu.be/T56DhEny7OU?t=204

You can only hear the tyres, when he is already fully sideways. That's way too late. In every other racing game, you get an audible indication about the griplevel of your tyres. That may not alway be realistic, but is really important because of the lack of seat-of-pants feel. The lack of tyre noise also makes the cars seem somehow floaty on tarmac.



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The gearbox whine is sexy though, so they cancel each other out! lol

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KevM said:
The gearbox whine is sexy though, so they cancel each other out! lol
There should be a separate slider for. I want MOAR! ;)

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