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https://youtu.be/7pleZU5V1iQ

I think it's always going to be something that people will never fully agree on. Unless you are using huge simulators like F1 teams that can process everything properly like aerodynamics and such then you will never get everything perfect. 

If it's not perfect, I still think it will be the best rally simulator game that's been made, taking dirt rally's place. I don't know about RBR mods, but the standard game was no where near anything that was in dirt rally

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If the physics are fun and challenging like Dirt Rally I don't really care if it's 100% realistic or not. 

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Don't worry. 100% is impossible nowdays due to technical limitations.
However you should care if simulated car slides sideways 1m or 10m in particular conditions. It affects gameplay and your awarenes of what you are doing in-game. A sim, which is something which trying to get us close to what we know from reality, should build-up awarenes to level known from real-life.
If you care about fun only, then yes, realism might work against it.

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If the physics are fun and challenging like Dirt Rally I don't really care if it's 100% realistic or not. 
I understand that, and that's the reason why I pushed the idea of two physic modes back in the DR days here on forums. Now we have gamer handling for those who don't care about realism, and sim mode for those who want to get as close to 100 % realistic as possible (and then those who want something in between can use aids). 
https://youtu.be/7pleZU5V1iQ

I think it's always going to be something that people will never fully agree on. Unless you are using huge simulators like F1 teams that can process everything properly like aerodynamics and such then you will never get everything perfect. 

If it's not perfect, I still think it will be the best rally simulator game that's been made, taking dirt rally's place. I don't know about RBR mods, but the standard game was no where near anything that was in dirt rally
You are right, but there are simple tests Codies, or us can perform to measure different factors in order to validate things. Like breaking distances, or acceleration times. and even powersliding angles. Ideally we would need access to a RL car, but we have tons of footage avaliable. 
All in all let's wait untill we get our hands on the release day, and let's see ourselfes. I think everyone can have their own opinion, as long as we are respectfull we can discuss those. If we can back our claims back with some evidence, that's even better.

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what im finding is in certain cars im having to do things earlier.it is harder to get a car to flick in tight corners . overall though the general feel is better than dirt rally.tarmac especially.all id personally like now is so i can flick the back end easier for hairpins and such.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwJC1ffHAPA
GameRiot's Part 4, apparently he's using the highest difficulty (but not Fearless mode) and he blitzed the AI in most stages except for one where 2nd place was keeping up (all on Spain btw).

Would it be an issue caused from simulating AI performance on generated stages? For the people who have the game, how is the AI difficulty?

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ark13700 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwJC1ffHAPA
GameRiot's Part 4, apparently he's using the highest difficulty (but not Fearless mode) and he blitzed the AI in most stages except for one where 2nd place was keeping up (all on Spain btw).

Would it be an issue caused from simulating AI performance on generated stages? For the people who have the game, how is the AI difficulty?

Same here, seems to be impossible to lose even on the hardest difficult available.

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dgeesi0 said:
what im finding is in certain cars im having to do things earlier.it is harder to get a car to flick in tight corners . overall though the general feel is better than dirt rally.tarmac especially.all id personally like now is so i can flick the back end easier for hairpins and such.
I'm starting to be concerned it's not that easy to just tweak a single number and it might be related to the aero changes preventing car going wrong way on jumps. Hopefully not and I'm just over worrying. 

It's hard to say from videos only without having your hand on wheel yet. 

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Tiametmarduk doing some rallycross, and it looks superb.
The action really does look similar to the actual World RX broadcast, all it needs is faster AI. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrfOiRweKys

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Older cars should be harder to turn into corners. For example Group A had to be thrown around a lot, not to mention Gr. B.

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versedi said:
dgeesi0 said:
what im finding is in certain cars im having to do things earlier.it is harder to get a car to flick in tight corners . overall though the general feel is better than dirt rally.tarmac especially.all id personally like now is so i can flick the back end easier for hairpins and such.
I'm starting to be concerned it's not that easy to just tweak a single number and it might be related to the aero changes preventing car going wrong way on jumps. Hopefully not and I'm just over worrying.
Please note flicks are performed rather with low speed. Aero doesn't take much effect in that case.

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MaXyMsrpl said:
versedi said:
dgeesi0 said:
what im finding is in certain cars im having to do things earlier.it is harder to get a car to flick in tight corners . overall though the general feel is better than dirt rally.tarmac especially.all id personally like now is so i can flick the back end easier for hairpins and such.
I'm starting to be concerned it's not that easy to just tweak a single number and it might be related to the aero changes preventing car going wrong way on jumps. Hopefully not and I'm just over worrying.
Please note flicks are performed rather with low speed. Aero doesn't take much effect in that case.
You didn't have to have much speed over a jump to experience the flaw. You just had to jump. 

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versedi said:
MaXyMsrpl said:
versedi said:
dgeesi0 said:
what im finding is in certain cars im having to do things earlier.it is harder to get a car to flick in tight corners . overall though the general feel is better than dirt rally.tarmac especially.all id personally like now is so i can flick the back end easier for hairpins and such.
I'm starting to be concerned it's not that easy to just tweak a single number and it might be related to the aero changes preventing car going wrong way on jumps. Hopefully not and I'm just over worrying.
Please note flicks are performed rather with low speed. Aero doesn't take much effect in that case.
You didn't have to have much speed over a jump to experience the flaw. You just had to jump. 

Still you need a lot higher speed for taking off, than to turn using a flick.If you see/feel some bad experience while airborn at 60km/h, it's not air physics related. Rather mass, gravitation, momentum vector related.

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dgeesi0 said:
what im finding is in certain cars im having to do things earlier.it is harder to get a car to flick in tight corners . overall though the general feel is better than dirt rally.tarmac especially.all id personally like now is so i can flick the back end easier for hairpins and such.
We should be setting the car up  & getting the tail flicked out before corner entry on gravel.

https://youtu.be/mnFOID5tFNY

I dislike the RSRBR comparisons but the car should constantly be moving & require adjusting (both axles) on gravel on powering, cornering & braking, like above

Even replays of real quick stages look a bit linear & safe in D4.

I had hoped that with the duel gaming modes, the Sim mode could have been hardcored up a bit.

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KevM said:
dgeesi0 said:
what im finding is in certain cars im having to do things earlier.it is harder to get a car to flick in tight corners . overall though the general feel is better than dirt rally.tarmac especially.all id personally like now is so i can flick the back end easier for hairpins and such.
We should be setting the car up  & getting the tail flicked out before corner entry on gravel.

https://youtu.be/mnFOID5tFNY

I dislike the RSRBR comparisons but the car should constantly be moving & require adjusting (both axles) on gravel on powering, cornering & braking, like above

Even replays of real quick stages look a bit linear & safe in D4.

I had hoped that with the duel gaming modes, the Sim mode could have been hardcored up a bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4CnFWSrEeU
I also avoid RBR comparisons, here is some RL. Or just watch any othr RL onboard, especially notice how car behaves on low speed corners- drivers just use weight transfer and car inertia with a handbrake when neeed, and then powerslide.

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SamRWD said:
Older cars should be harder to turn into corners. For example Group A had to be thrown around a lot, not to mention Gr. B.
Indeed. That was Colins' prime, when the cars had to be man handeled. When the technology started to allow the cars to be driven fairly straight forward even on gravel, that's when he started to be outpaced.

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bogani said:
SamRWD said:
Older cars should be harder to turn into corners. For example Group A had to be thrown around a lot, not to mention Gr. B.
Indeed. That was Colins' prime, when the cars had to be man handeled. When the technology started to allow the cars to be driven fairly straight forward even on gravel, that's when he started to be outpaced.
Some uf us (me included) still prefer to drive non active diffs cars in sims :) BTW
@KickUp
Does Dirt 4 simulate active vs non active central differentials for example in Focus WRC 2007 vs 2001?

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SamRWD said:
bogani said:
SamRWD said:
Older cars should be harder to turn into corners. For example Group A had to be thrown around a lot, not to mention Gr. B.
Indeed. That was Colins' prime, when the cars had to be man handeled. When the technology started to allow the cars to be driven fairly straight forward even on gravel, that's when he started to be outpaced.
Some uf us (me included) still prefer to drive non active diffs cars in sims :) BTW
@KickUp
Does Dirt 4 simulate active vs non active central differentials for example in Focus WRC 2007 vs 2001?
Cars with active diffs have that style of tech represented in their simulation. 

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MaXyMsrpl said:
versedi said:
MaXyMsrpl said:
versedi said:
dgeesi0 said:
what im finding is in certain cars im having to do things earlier.it is harder to get a car to flick in tight corners . overall though the general feel is better than dirt rally.tarmac especially.all id personally like now is so i can flick the back end easier for hairpins and such.
I'm starting to be concerned it's not that easy to just tweak a single number and it might be related to the aero changes preventing car going wrong way on jumps. Hopefully not and I'm just over worrying.
Please note flicks are performed rather with low speed. Aero doesn't take much effect in that case.
You didn't have to have much speed over a jump to experience the flaw. You just had to jump. 

Still you need a lot higher speed for taking off, than to turn using a flick.If you see/feel some bad experience while airborn at 60km/h, it's not air physics related. Rather mass, gravitation, momentum vector related.
By saying aero I meant these 3 things. There's no real "aero" in game, only a "simulation" of it. 

Please don't argue on using words, no point in this.

By watching the videos I've concluded there's something off with the central weight of the car and how it transfers the momentum when pulling hand brake and steering on it's rear. And IMHO that's exactly what it was when it comes to jumps in DR. It transfered the momentum weirdly and we're ending up flying 45 degrees sideways but still going forward. 

P.S. I'm just worried, I've loved how you could throw the cars on gravel in DR. 

P.S2. I'm not going to any assumptions before playing in one week. Can't wait to do it. 

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That's what I am saying. As soon as the car goes sideway, it loses all the momentum.
This was present in DR and judging by the videos is still present in D4.

Maybe someone with enough skill can make a test in the Dirtfish area.
Drive at let's say 100 mph and
- brake with ABS
- brake manually (Threshold braking)
- brake with handbrake and throw the car sideways

I suspect the third option will result in the shortest deceleration distance, which it shouldn't.


I've actually seen several videos where the car goes to sideways and just slides for a good number of meters with no traction at all going straight sideways. That definitely seems to be improved over dirt rally. Maybe not completely realistic still but that's been mentioned by a number of people as an improvement.

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OK. But you issued "aero" in your aswer to @digeesi0 note which talks about flicking car into corner. plase elaborate more what you wanted to say by it to clear out the confusion.

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OK Gents, here is what i propose- let's not discuss physics in this thread till the release date. We will open "Official Simulation Physics Discussion Thread" then, and we will be able to post appropate footage to illustrate our douts. I persnonally promise I won't discuss physics anymore here untill the 9th. How about that?

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SamRWD said:
OK Gents, here is what i propose- let's not discuss physics in this thread till the release date. We will open "Official Simulation Physics Discussion Thread" then, and we will be able to post appropate footage to illustrate our douts. I persnonally promise I won't discuss physics anymore here untill the 9th. How about that?
Honestly makes sense. Trying to make concrete claims based off of watching a video without actually FEELING how the car feels on a wheel is missing a huge aspect of actually judging the physics. If you don't actually know the exact inputs being used you're missing a huge portion of understanding how the physics are actually effecting the car considering how much pedal control and steering inputs effect how the car will behave.

I am going to put my trust in the skilled players who have the preview copy who say while there are still things that are iffy it's still better than dirt rally.

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ark13700 said:
Tiametmarduk doing some rallycross, and it looks superb.
The action really does look similar to the actual World RX broadcast, all it needs is faster AI. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrfOiRweKys

Watching this rallycross, some questions come to mind.

- Cars are squashed in the rear view mirror.
- Does the spotter give us information about opponent position for overtaking (inside/outside/clear)?
- Is a virtual rear view mirror optional?
- Can we activate position indicators (inside/outside/clear)?
- Looking at the repair menu, I am missing the option to clean the car. I could swear that I've seen that in some older videos?

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