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MaXyMsrpl said:
It's @SkiddyMcCrash  who first wrote: What we have here is a battle between 2 different types of racer, sim and arcade. Which is obviously not what we are talking about for the last 2 pages.
So again, please read carefully before you write. Especially offensive statements as you did to me.
I was talking generally, it wasn't specifically aimed at anyone in particular. I apologise if that's how it came across.

The arguement has been building up since the new user videos started appearing in the forum, and is appearing in other threads. It's not just this one and not just today. I used this thread to make the post as everyone reads it.


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Rygar86 said:
KickUp said:
MaXyMsrpl said:
SamRWD said:
The ONLY grip (;)) I have with crashes is damage other than visual. I hope on hardest level, the one you have to unlock,  crashes will be less forgiving. I saw people hit trees with a front of the car pretty hard, they were able to finish the stage with no problems. Also body deformation is really hard to do, would rather have other aspect of D4 refined. For me they are more than good enough. Maybe RX guys would like more due to the nature of RX races. 
And that's why 15 years old games (ie all gModor based ones) can show more deformation than than D4?
D4 cars are prone to brake apart rather then deformate.  But if there is no enough energy, then damage is barely visible (for example after roll).
Even D:R has more deformation than D4 shown on recent videos. Moreover deformation in D:R could be extended by using community mod. It proves that better deformation is in place, ready to use. But for some reasons suppressed by developers. And please don't say it's because of manufacturers demands.
It's because of manufacturer demands.

I agree our damage systems could be improved but it is all confined by the demands of the licensing agreements. I'd argue cars take more damage in DiRT than they do in many other current licensed racing titles but every time we release a game the manufacturers get stricter about damage not more lenient.
@kickup So does this mean Dirt 4's damage has been nerfed compared to Dirt Rally?
No, if anything the cars take a similar amount of damage but they get to their limits faster. Its how we've got around the limitations set. I think it is an improvement over what we had

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ISR just released a video with one race on all 5 Rallycross tracks.

He is driving in cockpit view and if you watch carefully, you can see that the starting lights on the track go to green just a tad earlier. Or the HUD lights just lag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2_zF0P7678

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Alf72 said:
@KickUp When we can start reading D4 Reviews? I believe they will be out before D4 launch, yeah?
https://twitter.com/AndyGray_/status/871651898163687424

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Does the sim handling with no assits on controller is similar to Dirt Rally?
I played it on a controller last year and yes it was very similar in the way that it was as playable on a controller as it is on a wheel.

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Didzis said:
JZStudios said:
Didzis said:
I actually had a dream last night where someone let me play DiRT4, not even kidding :D I think I need to lay off the forums for a while
How was it?
Sadly I don't remember much after getting behind the wheel :(
How intoxicated were you?

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Does the sim handling with no assits on controller is similar to Dirt Rally?
I played it on a controller last year and yes it was very similar in the way that it was as playable on a controller as it is on a wheel.
Agreed. Last time I played it (at the D4 launch event in London) I was able to map the controller buttons to my preferred settings and the game was every bit as playable (and challenging!) as DiRT Rally. 

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JZStudios said:
Didzis said:
JZStudios said:
Didzis said:
I actually had a dream last night where someone let me play DiRT4, not even kidding :D I think I need to lay off the forums for a while
How was it?
Sadly I don't remember much after getting behind the wheel :(
How intoxicated were you?
Can you even be intoxicated while in a dream?

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dgeesi0 said:
AnegloPlz said:

SamRWD said:
The ONLY grip (;)) I have with crashes is damage other than visual. I hope on hardest level, the one you have to unlock,  crashes will be less forgiving. I saw people hit trees with a front of the car pretty hard, they were able to finish the stage with no problems. Also body deformation is really hard to do, would rather have other aspect of D4 refined. For me they are more than good enough. Maybe RX guys would like more due to the nature of RX races. 
Have you seen the erased citizens gameplay from a couple weeks ago? They made the mini cooper end up onto a tree at pretty low speed and had to retire, without even too much previous damage if I remember correctly, which videos have you watched with people ending up on a tree and getting away with it?
watch my video at the end with the escort mk2.i thought that crash was brilliant :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it8lrZLJ0I8
:/ All this really told me is the body panels pop off in really weird way. Maybe there is a bit of deformation, but it could also be scripted like GTA's. It's unfortunately not the D2 level I was hoping for.

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Personally realistic damage has never much bothered me. I like to think that I don't ever have to see a wrecked car if I drive well. 
I've said it before, but racing down a tight windy section in BeamNG is way more intense because if you step out of line even a little you're done for. There is no bouncing off the curb, it tears the wheel off your axle, there is no deflecting off a tree, you're wrapped around it. D2 had that kind of feeling to some extent. And watching glorious crashes from multiple angles over and over and over again...
urgaffel said:
The game is out this week so y'all will be able to see how good/bad it is and how close/far we got to your expectations and how realistic/unrealistic the damage/handling/environment/lighting/rendering/surfaces is.

So let's just... you know... relax (for now) :D



I don't believe you. The weather there is way too crap for pools. Besides I have a pool and, well...
httpjp8r0ttcoml_e1d342d0-d45b-11e1-9fbc-fb76ab300008jpg

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Didzis said:
JZStudios said:
Didzis said:
JZStudios said:
Didzis said:
I actually had a dream last night where someone let me play DiRT4, not even kidding :D I think I need to lay off the forums for a while
How was it?
Sadly I don't remember much after getting behind the wheel :(
How intoxicated were you?
Can you even be intoxicated while in a dream?
In a dream you can be anything.... you can even be drunk.

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One thing I would really love is a wheel and suspension damage system like beam, where you can misalign, twist and smash wheels, bend, brake and collapse suspension and so on. Especially during things like hitting curbs and rocks heavily, or big rolls with heavy impacts on the wheels. Would be really cool

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KickUp said:
Rygar86 said:
KickUp said:
MaXyMsrpl said:
SamRWD said:
The ONLY grip (;)) I have with crashes is damage other than visual. I hope on hardest level, the one you have to unlock,  crashes will be less forgiving. I saw people hit trees with a front of the car pretty hard, they were able to finish the stage with no problems. Also body deformation is really hard to do, would rather have other aspect of D4 refined. For me they are more than good enough. Maybe RX guys would like more due to the nature of RX races. 
And that's why 15 years old games (ie all gModor based ones) can show more deformation than than D4?
D4 cars are prone to brake apart rather then deformate.  But if there is no enough energy, then damage is barely visible (for example after roll).
Even D:R has more deformation than D4 shown on recent videos. Moreover deformation in D:R could be extended by using community mod. It proves that better deformation is in place, ready to use. But for some reasons suppressed by developers. And please don't say it's because of manufacturers demands.
It's because of manufacturer demands.

I agree our damage systems could be improved but it is all confined by the demands of the licensing agreements. I'd argue cars take more damage in DiRT than they do in many other current licensed racing titles but every time we release a game the manufacturers get stricter about damage not more lenient.
@kickup So does this mean Dirt 4's damage has been nerfed compared to Dirt Rally?
No, if anything the cars take a similar amount of damage but they get to their limits faster. Its how we've got around the limitations set. I think it is an improvement over what we had

Excellent! Thanks @KickUp :) I'm relieved to hear this. Can I another question please?

Some game play videos seem to be showing the AI being easy to beat by a rather large margin even on the harder difficulty (not fearless but the next one down). I was a bit concerned about this because in the videos where this was happening the driving was by no means a very high level with quite a lot of mistakes and generally not that fast and yet somehow the AI was beaten by around 15 seconds consistently, sometimes by even more. Admittedly in Dirt I can sometimes beat the Master AI by these kind of margins, but usually I have to drive a lot faster then what I've seen in these game play videos and without mistakes and not every stage, only on some stages can I do this, where other stages the margin will be way less or the AI will beat me by quite a bit. 

I thought that I read somewhere that the hardest AI setting below the fearless setting (sorry I don't know what its called, 'Demanding'?) was supposed to be equivalent to Master on Dirt Rally and that Fearless was a step above (the Old) Master level. But it doesn't seem to be that way when watching these videos.

Maybe I  misunderstood what I read in regards to how difficulty in D4 relates to Dirt Rally? The other thing I was thinking is that maybe what I was watching was career mode (cant quite remember) and that the easier than expected AI was due to it being early in the career and the events themselves had an effect on the AI level and as you progress it ramps up in difficulty in the bigger events.

If it does turn out that things are looking a bit too easy, will you guys be looking to increase the difficulty via an update like you did with Dirt Rally?


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Rygar86 said:
KickUp said:
Rygar86 said:
KickUp said:
MaXyMsrpl said:
SamRWD said:
The ONLY grip (;)) I have with crashes is damage other than visual. I hope on hardest level, the one you have to unlock,  crashes will be less forgiving. I saw people hit trees with a front of the car pretty hard, they were able to finish the stage with no problems. Also body deformation is really hard to do, would rather have other aspect of D4 refined. For me they are more than good enough. Maybe RX guys would like more due to the nature of RX races. 
And that's why 15 years old games (ie all gModor based ones) can show more deformation than than D4?
D4 cars are prone to brake apart rather then deformate.  But if there is no enough energy, then damage is barely visible (for example after roll).
Even D:R has more deformation than D4 shown on recent videos. Moreover deformation in D:R could be extended by using community mod. It proves that better deformation is in place, ready to use. But for some reasons suppressed by developers. And please don't say it's because of manufacturers demands.
It's because of manufacturer demands.

I agree our damage systems could be improved but it is all confined by the demands of the licensing agreements. I'd argue cars take more damage in DiRT than they do in many other current licensed racing titles but every time we release a game the manufacturers get stricter about damage not more lenient.
@kickup So does this mean Dirt 4's damage has been nerfed compared to Dirt Rally?
No, if anything the cars take a similar amount of damage but they get to their limits faster. Its how we've got around the limitations set. I think it is an improvement over what we had

Excellent! Thanks @KickUp :) I'm relieved to hear this. Can I another question please?

Some game play videos seem to be showing the AI being easy to beat by a rather large margin even on the harder difficulty (not fearless but the next one down). I was a bit concerned about this because in the videos where this was happening the driving was by no means a very high level with quite a lot of mistakes and generally not that fast and yet somehow the AI was beaten by around 15 seconds consistently, sometimes by even more. Admittedly in Dirt I can sometimes beat the Master AI by these kind of margins, but usually I have to drive a lot faster then what I've seen in these game play videos and without mistakes and not every stage, only on some stages can I do this, where other stages the margin will be way less or the AI will beat me by quite a bit. 

I thought that I read somewhere that the hardest AI setting below the fearless setting (sorry I don't know what its called, 'Demanding'?) was supposed to be equivalent to Master on Dirt Rally and that Fearless was a step above (the Old) Master level. But it doesn't seem to be that way when watching these videos.

Maybe I  misunderstood what I read in regards to how difficulty in D4 relates to Dirt Rally? The other thing I was thinking is that maybe what I was watching was career mode (cant quite remember) and that the easier than expected AI was due to it being early in the career and the events themselves had an effect on the AI level and as you progress it ramps up in difficulty in the bigger events.

If it does turn out that things are looking a bit too easy, will you guys be looking to increase the difficulty via an update like you did with Dirt Rally?
It is different. In DiRT Rally the fastest driver in all the difficulties wasn't the same. What changed was the Level of the other drivers. 

In DiRT 4 the drivers are of different skills in all difficulties and with Your Stage we have had to simulate the speed at which they can travel through the generated stages. As a result we have had to err on the side of caution to ensure that they can be beaten. 

I can't promise an update but we will be monitoring the times players are getting to see how they compare to the AI and that may lead to us making an adjustment. 

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Rygar86 said:
The PorkMeister + Beastly German Machinery = Epic Goodness :smiley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDG07JX0jPQ
Can't wait to try that combo!! Love it!!

Even Porkie seems really nervous steering the Quattro bus!!  :#

i think 'unlearning & resetting' a driving style after getting used to DR will be hugely important 

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tbtstt said:
Does the sim handling with no assits on controller is similar to Dirt Rally?
I played it on a controller last year and yes it was very similar in the way that it was as playable on a controller as it is on a wheel.
Agreed. Last time I played it (at the D4 launch event in London) I was able to map the controller buttons to my preferred settings and the game was every bit as playable (and challenging!) as DiRT Rally. 
Im happy to ear that because i'm quite good at Dirt Rally, so it's nice to know that I might be as good in Dirt 4!!

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In this video you can see him adding all six sponsors to the car. But only three of them seem to appear.
The process starts at 11:00. Only the first three sponsors appear on the car. And the rear and front is totally empty (only the bonnet shows the sponsors from the side). There is nothing in the usual places like under the headlights or taillights.

Is this a bug?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PrlwCp6q6c

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https://youtu.be/eH8ZDaH7vaU

To kill some time ;) It seems to be a real turd irl  :p 

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RookieOne said:
Preloading the game still not available in steam :(
Believe me, you'd rather have to download it once than having to download a patch half of it size on release date ;)

If you're going to download it on HDD beware of totally slow Steam decryption. On some drives, it's even slower than downloading depending on your bandwidth. 


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RookieOne said:
Preloading the game still not available in steam :(
I said we were aiming for Monday. I never promised that it would actually be available today. 

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P308R said:
https://youtu.be/eH8ZDaH7vaU

To kill some time ;) It seems to be a real turd irl  :p 
Pshh, I've been stuck at home with a hand injury and piss all to do. And I've still got at least 2 more weeks before my finger heals, maybe a month.

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