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JZStudios said:
I was initially thinking that they would make the actual locations a permanent thing, then just have the procedural generation lay a road down on the pre made terrain. I feel like you'd have more control over that as well. You could potentially even make checkpoints that the road hits along the way, so you could go city, hills, forest. Instead they went with extremely repetitive tiles.
You could potentially complain that the scenery never changes, but it also never changes with handmade tracks either, so it doesn't matter.
That's what I thought it would do as well. I'm disappointed that the final product boils down to just "forest section" or "open section" with a handful of road tiles. That's why I bring up the Xpand Rally method, with today's tech it could be possible to make a map big enough and with a complex enough road network that simply blocking off various junctions to make stages may be good enough. The repeating tiles in Your Stage feels wrong because you're not actually driving though the same location multiple times, but if you drive through a premade map, the repetition might feel more natural since you know you're driving through an actual location (if that makes sense).

 Maybe there could even be premade sections scattered around with procedural roads inbetween? Also, if the stages are made by blocking specific junctions, it would be easy to incorporate an actual stage creator, where people can make their own route through the map.

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YourStage may have some flaws but, given that DiRT 4 is the first iteration of this technology, I think it can only get better from here. Having raced quite a bit in all the environments, I note that longer random stages do sometimes seem to end up with similar sections repeated. However, when you do get a completely unique stage, I think it's excellent: with the scope it currently has (and it's further potential) I really wouldn't want to see a return to purely premade stages again.

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how i look at it is and this will probably get my put in the naughty room is it dont work !

i see it as a way to not have to get the licensing to get the iconic stages which if we honest most crave.the idea of not knowing the turns is great in thought , yes i understand that but, if you cant deliver it, dont do it.or atleast do it until its properly developed to a point where your not seeing the same corners 3 or 4 times a event. that goes against the very sell being touted. you dont know whats coming next ! well , yes i do ! because i just drove the same corner 3 times in last 30 seconds. :D

so while i would like a " perfect " yourstage scalectrix mode with proper hairpins and all the trimming. it just aint ready yet.so we need the locations for rally. or atleast the real locations and then add your stage as a cherry not as the main meal. i really do feel its more to do with licensing for tracks and events than the you dont know whats coming next.

think about it use a generator for all your events you dont have to research all the tracks around the world pay licenses and so on. also many other games have these events or tracks or whatever rally tied up maybe so it doesnt just feel about around a corner you never been around before thing.

hopefully codies have learnt from these mistakes with this game as it has potential it just feels we took a step backwards with Dirt 4 or maybe it was just meant to be for the console bashers and not the sim people of Dirt rally. maybe my idea of what it should be like is totally wrong and the games right.

thing is if thats true why is fewer people playing dirt 4 that dirt rally or even DiRT 3 !! Dirt 3 :s

when you look at the player base for eg 95 percent is on console. pc numbers are small. so i do kinda understand it.

so please codies take note for future titles.bring back the iconic stages and more of them.make yourstage which you obviously want to pursue a cherry on the cake not the whole cake.cause i only like cherries so much ! :D


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I have always been an advocate of the codies using iconic real non WRC rallies for their games. Could be old WRC rounds like Norway,  Cyprus or San Remo or rounds that have never been in the WRC like Azores rally, the Ulster rally Or the MANX rally. You wouldn't get into legal trouble with the WRC game and the less known rallies are probably much cheaper to licence than WRC rallies. And while they aren't as known as the WRC they can be just as iconic. 

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I don't know about you lot, but I have yet to feel that I've driven the same stage twice.
That's true, but when you enter the forest section uphill in Wales the same way 3 times in one stage and every stage features in and out of forests and out on the moor lands, well, it gets awfully repetetive.

I understand the concept of it and it's only the first iteration, but I can't shake the feeling of disapointment now and then. 

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BadD0g said:
JZStudios said:
I was initially thinking that they would make the actual locations a permanent thing, then just have the procedural generation lay a road down on the pre made terrain. I feel like you'd have more control over that as well. You could potentially even make checkpoints that the road hits along the way, so you could go city, hills, forest. Instead they went with extremely repetitive tiles.
You could potentially complain that the scenery never changes, but it also never changes with handmade tracks either, so it doesn't matter.
That's what I thought it would do as well. I'm disappointed that the final product boils down to just "forest section" or "open section" with a handful of road tiles. That's why I bring up the Xpand Rally method, with today's tech it could be possible to make a map big enough and with a complex enough road network that simply blocking off various junctions to make stages may be good enough. The repeating tiles in Your Stage feels wrong because you're not actually driving though the same location multiple times, but if you drive through a premade map, the repetition might feel more natural since you know you're driving through an actual location (if that makes sense).

 Maybe there could even be premade sections scattered around with procedural roads inbetween? Also, if the stages are made by blocking specific junctions, it would be easy to incorporate an actual stage creator, where people can make their own route through the map.
Well if they make specific junction junctions like towns, they could have the procedural generation take place in between while using the pre made streets of the town. There's a lot of ways to do it, but unfortunately the method they chose is the most repetitive.

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They could also do some minor but essential variations of some turns. For instance, the very long bending 2 in Wales open fields, it always has the same bumps and mini crests at the same spots and also rough edges on the inside so that you can't cut it. It would be relatively easy to do some variations of this turn so that sometimes its quite flat and sometimes you can cut it.

This tile system also needs better and more specific pace notes.
Some pace notes are completely off. And we really need plus and minus indications according to each turn if necessary.



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Sees 15 new messages in Gossip Thread.
Hopes is about new patch/handling.
Heck at least the kebabpizza.
Nope. Complaints about YourStage.
Back to DiRT Rally.

I'm joking obviously, I know you guys wanted this to be great as much as me. Unfortunately, it wasn't.

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dgeesi0 said:
how i look at it is and this will probably get my put in the naughty room is it dont work !

i see it as a way to not have to get the licensing to get the iconic stages which if we honest most crave.the idea of not knowing the turns is great in thought , yes i understand that but, if you cant deliver it, dont do it.or atleast do it until its properly developed to a point where your not seeing the same corners 3 or 4 times a event. that goes against the very sell being touted. you dont know whats coming next ! well , yes i do ! because i just drove the same corner 3 times in last 30 seconds. :D

when you look at the player base for eg 95 percent is on console. pc numbers are small. so i do kinda understand it.

so please codies take note for future titles.bring back the iconic stages and more of them.make yourstage which you obviously want to pursue a cherry on the cake not the whole cake.cause i only like cherries so much ! :D


IMHO the playerbase didn't drop because of the stages but because of the handling.

P.S. To keep the Gossip: I'm not sure why clubs are taking almost 3 months to implement. They've had the codebase from DR already. So unless something is completely screwed up somewhere (eg. by third party studio from India) then there's might be something going on behind the scenes.


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I'm quick to jump on board to critique the flaws, but honestly, if the game handled right, I'd really enjoy YourStage.  Yes, you recognise bits, but if you had a car that went where you expected, and could really drive the stage 'on it' like you could in DR, the variation of sequence would be fun for me.

Its the last thing I'd bash about D4.  As said, the YourStage tech will get better!  

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Probably team was moved to F1 branch. Otherwise we would already get clubs. Physics won't get realistic overhaul IMHO. D4 feels like Gran Turismo, and that is a good think for gamepad users. Both games use the same handling philosophy. 

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SamRWD said:
Probably team was moved to F1 branch.
I doubt that to be honest.

It's different branches.

Compare Credits in game.

D4 used so many outside devs it really suprised me.

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SamRWD said:
Probably team was moved to F1 branch. Otherwise we would already get clubs. Physics won't get realistic overhaul IMHO. D4 feels like Gran Turismo, and that is a good think for gamepad users. Both games use the same handling philosophy. 
I would heavily disagree. I played DR and D4 at launch using standard controller schemes on an Xbox pad, and DR plays way better than 4. I'm not sure what happened with 4.
carpa said:
Sees 15 new messages in Gossip Thread.
Hopes is about new patch/handling.
Heck at least the kebabpizza.
Nope. Complaints about YourStage.
Back to DiRT Rally.

I'm joking obviously, I know you guys wanted this to be great as much as me. Unfortunately, it wasn't.
Hell, at this point, at least it's conversation.

The sad thing is, checking the forums used to be the highlight of my day, and now I don't even have that. Think it's time to break out the Simon and Garfunkel.
https://youtu.be/4zLfCnGVeL4


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JZStudios said:

The sad thing is, checking the forums used to be the highlight of my day, and now I don't even have that. Think it's time to break out the Simon and Garfunkel.
https://youtu.be/4zLfCnGVeL4


I can mention the Toyota S1E22B WRC to start an argument if you want?

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The fact clubs take so long is really disturbing in my eyes...
Either they are intended to be much much much much more than just leagues or something is seriously holding the development considering the Racenet-code had a base already from DR. I thought the biggest problem was bringing Yourstage into a Web-Interface??

@KickUp By the way, will clubs allow the leader/founder/whatever to use their own saved stages for leagues or will the club-stages be seperated? So is there any reason in curating some stages already or is this all wasted time?

And have the buisness people made decisions already on the road ahead? (Maybe hints if you can't speak clearly?) Will D4 recieve some further support after clubs (VR-Update, Argentina-DLC, Rally-PhysicsV2, etc.) or has the revenue not been up to expectation, so we're looking more at like a new game in 2-4 years instead of big D4 building?

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I posted this on GTPlanet way back on May 1st:

"It's anyone's guess as to when they [leagues/clubs] will be implemented but my intuition tells me it will be at least August before they get it going."

Looks like I was being too optimistic.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/crap-dirt-rally-club-ps4-racenet-league-events-live.344617/page-75#post-11799856

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SkyRex said:
@KickUp By the way, will clubs allow the leader/founder/whatever to use their own saved stages for leagues or will the club-stages be seperated? So is there any reason in curating some stages already or is this all wasted time?

And have the buisness people made decisions already on the road ahead? (Maybe hints if you can't speak clearly?) Will D4 recieve some further support after clubs (VR-Update, Argentina-DLC, Rally-PhysicsV2, etc.) or has the revenue not been up to expectation, so we're looking more at like a new game in 2-4 years instead of big D4 building?
 You'll be able to use your favourites (saved stages) for clubs so curating stages now is not a waste of time.

As for the road ahead we have a better picture of where we are at but I can't give anything away just yet. Sorry we are being so elusive.

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I just hope there is also a way to ensure freshly generated stages only, so that all league members can be sure to drive each stage for the first time.

I wondered why there is no way to force only new generated stages for multiplayer. What is the point if the host can load stages that he knows back and forth?

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I just hope there is also a way to ensure freshly generated stages only, so that all league members can be sure to drive each stage for the first time.

I wondered why there is no way to force only new generated stages for multiplayer. What is the point if the host can load stages that he knows back and forth?
They can be generated directly from the racenet website if I recall correctly, so as long as the admin is fair it should be fine.

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I just hope there is also a way to ensure freshly generated stages only, so that all league members can be sure to drive each stage for the first time.

I wondered why there is no way to force only new generated stages for multiplayer. What is the point if the host can load stages that he knows back and forth?
The point is, that in our planned D4RC league the plan is to double-use the locations. And while some are easy to generate in different styles (eg. forest and plains) like Spain and Australia, others almost have the same stage feeling most of the time. I'm thinking of curating some "iconic" stages, mainly for Michigan/Poland and Wales/Finland to get a more distinct driving experience. I plan on locking those in place too, so after the first season every participant will be on the same page with what is known and what will be generated for everyone every season.

And I found out the curating process is really long if you aim for stuff like fast, all forest, 15km Wales for Finland or for a narrow, lots of fields, but still super fast michigan for Poland.

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Sorry, but that doesn't cut it.

I don't want to rely on anyones supposedly fairness.
It's not only the host who might have learned the stages. He also could have shared these stages with specific members.
What's the point of having the ability to generate stages on the fly in multiplayer, when you still use stages that could be known for days or weeks.

There needs to be an option that forces generated stages only, same as enforcing no-assists etc.

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SkyRex said:
I plan on locking those in place too, so after the first season every participant will be on the same page with what is known and what will be generated for everyone every season.
What?
So you are back at what we had in all the rally games before. Known stages for everyone, all the time?

I am sorry, but that is completely against what the generator is all about. Sure, anyone can use the generator to get some nice preferred stages and go hotlapping. But for an online league, it is vital to go with unknown generated stages. Yes, we all know the tiles somehow, but there is still quite a difference between completely knowing a stage and just knowing the sections but without knowing the sequence. And in addition to that, there are still some differences in some tiles. For instance, the sharp hairpin in australia which flows into a T-intersection. Usually it follows the bend, but sometimes the stage continuous into the opposite direction which would be otherwise blocked with barricades.

So you still have to listen and can't just hotlap every new generated stage.

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SkyRex said:
I plan on locking those in place too, so after the first season every participant will be on the same page with what is known and what will be generated for everyone every season.
What?
So you are back at what we had in all the rally games before. Known stages for everyone, all the time?

I am sorry, but that is completely against what the generator is all about. Sure, anyone can use the generator to get some nice preferred stages and go hotlapping. But for an online league, it is vital to go with unknown generated stages. Yes, we all know the tiles somehow, but there is still quite a difference between completely knowing a stage and just knowing the sections but without knowing the sequence. And in addition to that, there are still some differences in some tiles. For instance, the sharp hairpin in australia which flows into a T-intersection. Usually it follows the bend, but sometimes the stage continuous into the opposite direction which would be otherwise blocked with barricades.

So you still have to listen and can't just hotlap every new generated stage.
Think you misunderstood me.
I plan on curating a subset number of stages for a subset of locations. maybe 2-3 out of 7 will be curated ones, to set the immersive vibe of that event, the rest will be generated on the fly. I'm one of the ambassadors myself that Yourstage is better than fixed stages. My desire to curate some soley rises from the limitations of Yourstage, mainly in Wales and Michigan (and partly Sweden)

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