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Sure the original concept for Gran Turismo Sports, was an online race series.  ESports will be alongside the future of motorsport whether you like it or not.

...& in other news.  I switched DiRT Rally on for the first in months.  God I love that game.  Still pulls you in and puts a grin on yer face.  

I was watching the Tutorials section for the first time ever & it kinda made me sad.  It’s describing in fine detail, the very ethos that D4 could have/should have been built upon, but wasn’t :(

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JZStudios said:
everything is so lifeless, sterile, and boring, and no one asks for change

LOL! I beg to differ: lots of people have been asking for change for years but are often met with defensive dismissals like "quit whining, stop being so entitled, don't be so impatient, nothing is perfect, can't please everybody, grow up, it's just a game, why are you such a hater, don't you have anything better to do with your life besides complaining, I'm sick of all the toxic negativity, I'd like to see you make a better game, go play something else if you don't like it," etc.

Quite a lot of people prefer to unconditionally defend games instead of advocate for progress, which has helped usher in this new era of 'lifeless, sterile, & boring' recycled games.


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While we're still talking about Dirt and Esports Just yesterday there was a livestream on Iracing with rallycross I thought that went reasonably well. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyLiYI0yXOw


What I really think is crucial if they are going to put esports is to emulate the actual real-life racing. Rallycross could tackle that fairly reasonable. What I'm more worried about is Rally. The WRC esports events are in all honestly garbage and do not represent rallying at all. It's basically a single stage shootout. No, for people to be interested you would need the proper setup. 

One other important thing that should be looked at is the level of customisation the participants will have. The F1 esports kinda fell flat to me mostly because it just looked like a couple of guys playing a game. (Which they are but you get my point.) We need some Esport teams! Esport Liveries! You know. Bring the immersion up a level. If they do that then they might have a chance. 

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dgeesi0 said:
JZStudios said:
dgeesi0 said:
 new tech is coming in and new ideas.if you focus on old and dont change then you wont change.

mclaren for eg are taking esports very serious and putting in big money.other companies are aswell.as it grows the games will change and cater for esports aswell. the tech is there to make sim racing as life like as possible.the whole package needs to come together.it is slowly.

its already proven the top end sim racers can actually make good real life racers. one of the reasons mclaren is getting involved.

But again, NONE of the games as they currently sit look anything like a competent "new" product. Sim racing is extremely disinteresting if you think about how it has almost actually gotten worse since GT2 10 years ago. I love racing, but I struggle to pull out my wheel and set up to play because everything is so lifeless, sterile, and boring, and no one asks for change. AC FINALLY made a big deal about how their AI finally works after years of telling people to just deal with it and rabid fanboys attacking any one.
Every time there's been a major eSports sim racing event it's been awful. I don't care about it, but I also don't care about real sports, but when every event has just lost money and made a mockery of itself it's not a good business practice. Not to mention that making games for eSports (Like GT Sport) starts to heavily push towards always online only, with little to no career or meaningful progression. And in GT Sports case, some cars just dominate period. It just doesn't work in sim racing.
That would be the most reasonable route. Just make a game to be really good and really fun. Pack it full of features and please will someone bring back split-screen. Its so much more fun sitting next to your friend then trying to talk over the stupid internet.
That would be cool. I REALLY miss split screen and hate that it's gone the way of the dinosaurs. I kind of want to see if I get a side by side split screen game and set it up as dual monitor if I can just have each person have their own monitor... That'd be really cool.

if i look at what you saying you dont look like the person who wants to be involved in esports or watch it. so will even the perfect racing rally game make you interested ? esports is rapidly growing at a ferocious speed.you may not think so it is ! in a few years it will be stable tv and a lot more common with big tournements.the thing is many or some are not thinking " future " .. the thing is you have to be in early anything new or you last. thats why companies are pushing it and putting money in.

esports racing has only grown so i dont get what you are saying to be honest.you may struggle to play racing rally games that doesnt mean others do.look at the bigger picture.

the F1 2017 event was massive.you may not like it im not a F1 person either but ..it wasnt awful it attracted massive media.it was live on sky sports.it made advances that hadnt previously been done.so the event gained rather than lost.the thing is you may lose money to gain in a area for later to be succesful ! as i said previously to be in the driving seat of anything you have to push you have to risk things you have to spend money. if you want to be a factor in anything to come.

esports is mainly about teams vs teams or people vs people. its not about playing a campaign.why would it be ? its about the skill of the people competing of the sport they are taking part.not finishing a single player game.their needs to be excitement of challenger vs challenger.

its not perfect yet but that takes time to perfect the showing of these events.its new it will take time effort and money. also understanding of what works and doesnt work.

esports maybe not tick your box but it will for many others for the community and thats the point to look at the bigger picture.esports racing / rallying is going to be big.very big.people just either have no vision or just do see it yet.
I guess I don't know anything about the F1 event. Maybe it went well, but that would make it THE first to ever not be a colossal shit show and waste resources. iRacing is BUILT around competition and every "major" race they have has had connection issues, pitiful views and the chat gets turned off EVERY TIME. There was a Vegas eSports event, which took place in a poor mod of... rFactor I believe... in which people voted for their "favorite" driver to give him a boost, which ended up being abused, the winner was a cheater, and they had to revoke his stupid trophy to give to second place, not to mention all the same aforementioned issues.
It has NOTHING to do with my ability to play a fucking game. People just don't care about the real sport, let alone the grown ass men acting like children and maxing out 3 credit cards to build a Domino's racing rig with custom fire suit to play in his moms basement.

Let's look at fighting game competitions, there's obviously a lot of drama and shit talk before the game actually starts, but at the end of the day, when the match starts it's more interesting than virtual race cars, and people only watch it to make fun of nerds cry because they lost. That's it.

I will agree though, I have zero interest in eSports, so what? I can't talk about dumb it is and how it pushes even further away from giving us what we actually want?
Operator1 said:

JZStudios said:
everything is so lifeless, sterile, and boring, and no one asks for change

LOL! I beg to differ: lots of people have been asking for change for years but are often met with defensive dismissals like "quit whining, stop being so entitled, don't be so impatient, nothing is perfect, can't please everybody, grow up, it's just a game, why are you such a hater, don't you have anything better to do with your life besides complaining, I'm sick of all the toxic negativity, I'd like to see you make a better game, go play something else if you don't like it," etc.

Quite a lot of people prefer to unconditionally defend games instead of advocate for progress, which has helped usher in this new era of 'lifeless, sterile, & boring' recycled games.


Hence what I said about rabid fanboys. They don't ask for change, they just accept and defend mediocrity. Anyone who does gets ousted then just stops caring because it just doesn't matter that much.

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What I'm more worried about is Rally. The WRC esports events are in all honestly garbage and do not represent rallying at all. It's basically a single stage shootout. No, for people to be interested you would need the proper setup. 

One other important thing that should be looked at is the level of customisation the participants will have. The F1 esports kinda fell flat to me mostly because it just looked like a couple of guys playing a game. (Which they are but you get my point.) We need some Esport teams! Esport Liveries! You know. Bring the immersion up a level. If they do that then they might have a chance. 
Ouch. But yeah fair call. That's why I'm excited about potential DiRT 4 esports, it has "different" stages every time that mean you can't memorise them before hand. (I know some people will still complain about tiles but it is a step in the right direction)
And to your second point you can also have custom liveries that don't break online anymore so that would be cool

I'll be watching with interest for any more news from codies.

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Iv always said the concept of YourStage is a great one for Rally gaming.  Many complain that tiles are repetitive, but I genuinely think it would work so much better with the DiRT Rally handling.  D4 is point & squirt, predictable.  If you were working with balancing the car more, the generated stage would be a better driving test.  Having said that, they’ll never beat the good old designed stages for driving pleasure and full max attack commitment!!

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JZStudios said:
dgeesi0 said:
JZStudios said:
dgeesi0 said:
 new tech is coming in and new ideas.if you focus on old and dont change then you wont change.

mclaren for eg are taking esports very serious and putting in big money.other companies are aswell.as it grows the games will change and cater for esports aswell. the tech is there to make sim racing as life like as possible.the whole package needs to come together.it is slowly.

its already proven the top end sim racers can actually make good real life racers. one of the reasons mclaren is getting involved.

But again, NONE of the games as they currently sit look anything like a competent "new" product. Sim racing is extremely disinteresting if you think about how it has almost actually gotten worse since GT2 10 years ago. I love racing, but I struggle to pull out my wheel and set up to play because everything is so lifeless, sterile, and boring, and no one asks for change. AC FINALLY made a big deal about how their AI finally works after years of telling people to just deal with it and rabid fanboys attacking any one.
Every time there's been a major eSports sim racing event it's been awful. I don't care about it, but I also don't care about real sports, but when every event has just lost money and made a mockery of itself it's not a good business practice. Not to mention that making games for eSports (Like GT Sport) starts to heavily push towards always online only, with little to no career or meaningful progression. And in GT Sports case, some cars just dominate period. It just doesn't work in sim racing.
That would be the most reasonable route. Just make a game to be really good and really fun. Pack it full of features and please will someone bring back split-screen. Its so much more fun sitting next to your friend then trying to talk over the stupid internet.
That would be cool. I REALLY miss split screen and hate that it's gone the way of the dinosaurs. I kind of want to see if I get a side by side split screen game and set it up as dual monitor if I can just have each person have their own monitor... That'd be really cool.

if i look at what you saying you dont look like the person who wants to be involved in esports or watch it. so will even the perfect racing rally game make you interested ? esports is rapidly growing at a ferocious speed.you may not think so it is ! in a few years it will be stable tv and a lot more common with big tournements.the thing is many or some are not thinking " future " .. the thing is you have to be in early anything new or you last. thats why companies are pushing it and putting money in.

esports racing has only grown so i dont get what you are saying to be honest.you may struggle to play racing rally games that doesnt mean others do.look at the bigger picture.

the F1 2017 event was massive.you may not like it im not a F1 person either but ..it wasnt awful it attracted massive media.it was live on sky sports.it made advances that hadnt previously been done.so the event gained rather than lost.the thing is you may lose money to gain in a area for later to be succesful ! as i said previously to be in the driving seat of anything you have to push you have to risk things you have to spend money. if you want to be a factor in anything to come.

esports is mainly about teams vs teams or people vs people. its not about playing a campaign.why would it be ? its about the skill of the people competing of the sport they are taking part.not finishing a single player game.their needs to be excitement of challenger vs challenger.

its not perfect yet but that takes time to perfect the showing of these events.its new it will take time effort and money. also understanding of what works and doesnt work.

esports maybe not tick your box but it will for many others for the community and thats the point to look at the bigger picture.esports racing / rallying is going to be big.very big.people just either have no vision or just do see it yet.
I guess I don't know anything about the F1 event. Maybe it went well, but that would make it THE first to ever not be a colossal **** show and waste resources. iRacing is BUILT around competition and every "major" race they have has had connection issues, pitiful views and the chat gets turned off EVERY TIME. There was a Vegas eSports event, which took place in a poor mod of... rFactor I believe... in which people voted for their "favorite" driver to give him a boost, which ended up being abused, the winner was a cheater, and they had to revoke his stupid trophy to give to second place, not to mention all the same aforementioned issues.
It has NOTHING to do with my ability to play a **** game. People just don't care about the real sport, let alone the grown ass men acting like children and maxing out 3 credit cards to build a Domino's racing rig with custom fire suit to play in his moms basement.

Let's look at fighting game competitions, there's obviously a lot of drama and **** talk before the game actually starts, but at the end of the day, when the match starts it's more interesting than virtual race cars, and people only watch it to make fun of nerds cry because they lost. That's it.

I will agree though, I have zero interest in eSports, so what? I can't talk about dumb it is and how it pushes even further away from giving us what we actually want?
Operator1 said:

JZStudios said:
everything is so lifeless, sterile, and boring, and no one asks for change

LOL! I beg to differ: lots of people have been asking for change for years but are often met with defensive dismissals like "quit whining, stop being so entitled, don't be so impatient, nothing is perfect, can't please everybody, grow up, it's just a game, why are you such a hater, don't you have anything better to do with your life besides complaining, I'm sick of all the toxic negativity, I'd like to see you make a better game, go play something else if you don't like it," etc.

Quite a lot of people prefer to unconditionally defend games instead of advocate for progress, which has helped usher in this new era of 'lifeless, sterile, & boring' recycled games.


Hence what I said about rabid fanboys. They don't ask for change, they just accept and defend mediocrity. Anyone who does gets ousted then just stops caring because it just doesn't matter that much.
i get its not for you as said previously i dont think even set up right you would probably watch it or be involved with it.

as for credit cards and getting high end rigs sitting in moms basement. i use for eg a £50 wheel.thats it.you dont need super duper rigs to be fast.all expensive rigs get you is realism and mostly slower.most of the fastest people use cheap wheels.so nothing what you saying is relating to anything of truth.you have your opinion though.

as for the tile system of Dirt 4 if it could be truly infinite then yes it could be ideal but it isnt.so i would take real life tracks done well over generated until the system can be perfected.even then im not sure if i would pick a generated track over a perfect sweet lamb . the tracks need soul they need to have the right bends fast bits. a computer doesnt feel that. man does ! computer could generate what it thinks is great but be dull and boring. true it maybe unpredictable but if its not truly fun or exciting people wont enjoy it.

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eSport racing doesn’t do anything for me whether I’m participating or spectating.  Watching the laws of physics being destroyed turns me off quite honestly. Speaking of being destroyed, that’s basically what happens to me in online racing anyway; getting beaten unmercifully or constantly shunted off the track.

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dgeesi0 said:
JZStudios said:
dgeesi0 said:
JZStudios said:
dgeesi0 said:
 new tech is coming in and new ideas.if you focus on old and dont change then you wont change.

mclaren for eg are taking esports very serious and putting in big money.other companies are aswell.as it grows the games will change and cater for esports aswell. the tech is there to make sim racing as life like as possible.the whole package needs to come together.it is slowly.

its already proven the top end sim racers can actually make good real life racers. one of the reasons mclaren is getting involved.

But again, NONE of the games as they currently sit look anything like a competent "new" product. Sim racing is extremely disinteresting if you think about how it has almost actually gotten worse since GT2 10 years ago. I love racing, but I struggle to pull out my wheel and set up to play because everything is so lifeless, sterile, and boring, and no one asks for change. AC FINALLY made a big deal about how their AI finally works after years of telling people to just deal with it and rabid fanboys attacking any one.
Every time there's been a major eSports sim racing event it's been awful. I don't care about it, but I also don't care about real sports, but when every event has just lost money and made a mockery of itself it's not a good business practice. Not to mention that making games for eSports (Like GT Sport) starts to heavily push towards always online only, with little to no career or meaningful progression. And in GT Sports case, some cars just dominate period. It just doesn't work in sim racing.
That would be the most reasonable route. Just make a game to be really good and really fun. Pack it full of features and please will someone bring back split-screen. Its so much more fun sitting next to your friend then trying to talk over the stupid internet.
That would be cool. I REALLY miss split screen and hate that it's gone the way of the dinosaurs. I kind of want to see if I get a side by side split screen game and set it up as dual monitor if I can just have each person have their own monitor... That'd be really cool.

if i look at what you saying you dont look like the person who wants to be involved in esports or watch it. so will even the perfect racing rally game make you interested ? esports is rapidly growing at a ferocious speed.you may not think so it is ! in a few years it will be stable tv and a lot more common with big tournements.the thing is many or some are not thinking " future " .. the thing is you have to be in early anything new or you last. thats why companies are pushing it and putting money in.

esports racing has only grown so i dont get what you are saying to be honest.you may struggle to play racing rally games that doesnt mean others do.look at the bigger picture.

the F1 2017 event was massive.you may not like it im not a F1 person either but ..it wasnt awful it attracted massive media.it was live on sky sports.it made advances that hadnt previously been done.so the event gained rather than lost.the thing is you may lose money to gain in a area for later to be succesful ! as i said previously to be in the driving seat of anything you have to push you have to risk things you have to spend money. if you want to be a factor in anything to come.

esports is mainly about teams vs teams or people vs people. its not about playing a campaign.why would it be ? its about the skill of the people competing of the sport they are taking part.not finishing a single player game.their needs to be excitement of challenger vs challenger.

its not perfect yet but that takes time to perfect the showing of these events.its new it will take time effort and money. also understanding of what works and doesnt work.

esports maybe not tick your box but it will for many others for the community and thats the point to look at the bigger picture.esports racing / rallying is going to be big.very big.people just either have no vision or just do see it yet.
I guess I don't know anything about the F1 event. Maybe it went well, but that would make it THE first to ever not be a colossal **** show and waste resources. iRacing is BUILT around competition and every "major" race they have has had connection issues, pitiful views and the chat gets turned off EVERY TIME. There was a Vegas eSports event, which took place in a poor mod of... rFactor I believe... in which people voted for their "favorite" driver to give him a boost, which ended up being abused, the winner was a cheater, and they had to revoke his stupid trophy to give to second place, not to mention all the same aforementioned issues.
It has NOTHING to do with my ability to play a **** game. People just don't care about the real sport, let alone the grown ass men acting like children and maxing out 3 credit cards to build a Domino's racing rig with custom fire suit to play in his moms basement.

Let's look at fighting game competitions, there's obviously a lot of drama and **** talk before the game actually starts, but at the end of the day, when the match starts it's more interesting than virtual race cars, and people only watch it to make fun of nerds cry because they lost. That's it.

I will agree though, I have zero interest in eSports, so what? I can't talk about dumb it is and how it pushes even further away from giving us what we actually want?
Operator1 said:

JZStudios said:
everything is so lifeless, sterile, and boring, and no one asks for change

LOL! I beg to differ: lots of people have been asking for change for years but are often met with defensive dismissals like "quit whining, stop being so entitled, don't be so impatient, nothing is perfect, can't please everybody, grow up, it's just a game, why are you such a hater, don't you have anything better to do with your life besides complaining, I'm sick of all the toxic negativity, I'd like to see you make a better game, go play something else if you don't like it," etc.

Quite a lot of people prefer to unconditionally defend games instead of advocate for progress, which has helped usher in this new era of 'lifeless, sterile, & boring' recycled games.


Hence what I said about rabid fanboys. They don't ask for change, they just accept and defend mediocrity. Anyone who does gets ousted then just stops caring because it just doesn't matter that much.
i get its not for you as said previously i dont think even set up right you would probably watch it or be involved with it.

as for credit cards and getting high end rigs sitting in moms basement. i use for eg a £50 wheel.thats it.you dont need super duper rigs to be fast.all expensive rigs get you is realism and mostly slower.most of the fastest people use cheap wheels.so nothing what you saying is relating to anything of truth.you have your opinion though.

as for the tile system of Dirt 4 if it could be truly infinite then yes it could be ideal but it isnt.so i would take real life tracks done well over generated until the system can be perfected.even then im not sure if i would pick a generated track over a perfect sweet lamb . the tracks need soul they need to have the right bends fast bits. a computer doesnt feel that. man does ! computer could generate what it thinks is great but be dull and boring. true it maybe unpredictable but if its not truly fun or exciting people wont enjoy it.
But happens, has happened, will happen, and the idiots keep urging people like that along. NO ONE maxes out 3 credit cards to play DOTA or LOL or rocket league or whatever. I mean, those guys are nerds and everyone expects it, but the sim racing guys all actually man children. Hey, if you get into a eSports league or whatever with your $50 wheel, then that's awesome, I'll root for you. Maybe you'll be the only normal ish person there. Until then, sim racing is chock full of grown ass men in diapers.

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carpa said:
er185 said:
Pedro Bianchi Dakar rider who collaborates in the Dakar 18 development has posted this photo on Instagram, First in-game image.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdIglGUF4n6/?taken-by=bianchiprata
This photo does nothing but make me hungry. I didn't think it was possible after everything I ate yesterday...
What even actually is that? I can only tell it's fried... something... with maybe cinnamon ?

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JZStudios said:
carpa said:
er185 said:
Pedro Bianchi Dakar rider who collaborates in the Dakar 18 development has posted this photo on Instagram, First in-game image.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdIglGUF4n6/?taken-by=bianchiprata
This photo does nothing but make me hungry. I didn't think it was possible after everything I ate yesterday...
What even actually is that? I can only tell it's fried... something... with maybe cinnamon ?
Looks like chicken wings to me.

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Jepsertti said:
JZStudios said:
carpa said:
er185 said:
Pedro Bianchi Dakar rider who collaborates in the Dakar 18 development has posted this photo on Instagram, First in-game image.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdIglGUF4n6/?taken-by=bianchiprata
This photo does nothing but make me hungry. I didn't think it was possible after everything I ate yesterday...
What even actually is that? I can only tell it's fried... something... with maybe cinnamon ?
Looks like chicken wings to me.
It's a Portuguese delicacy that we serve for Cmas! It's called "Sonhos" (translation to "dreams") and they are deep fried sugary dough, with cinnamon and powdr sugar on top!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbK2dGhQALs

Here's how they are made ;)

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Whoa, a Dakar game with an open dunes section, awesome. But wait. Is that a.. MINI MAP?!

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enamel said:
Whoa, a Dakar game with an open dunes section, awesome. But wait. Is that a.. MINI MAP?!
Do people racing the Dakar not use GPS now? If not, that's pretty dumb.

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JZStudios said:
What exactly is required to be a game tester anyways? I know it's not as much fun as you'd think, but I also don't understand the qualifications when it mostly seems like just dicking around trying to find bugs.
Matt from the Best Friends Play started his own personal channel and does a series of "The Bug Report" where he talks about some of the games he playtested and it really just seems like dicking around trying to break the game and writing down what happens.
A lot of patience.  It is a great job that I enjoy, but there are lots of negative words used with it.  You will be playing the same game somewhere between three to twelve months usually at forty hours a week.  The last few weeks before release are generally when you go "Oh yeah, this is the game we are making!", before that it always feels a bit more murky.

The simple description is "call out everything that is wrong".  QA is not responsible for the issues being fixed, they put issues on a database and someone in development makes a call on what has to be fixed.  Some of this will be going through test plans (think massive Excel sheets), track checks (drive down one side of track, make sure everything collides, repeat for other side/direction) and some will be freeform bug finding.

Good typing skills are required and you must be able to accurately describe what happened and break it down into a method of reproduction with as few steps as required.  When you report an issue a developer will assigned it and they need to get it to happen in order to fix it, having something vague and unclear means your issue runs the risk of being bounced back and wasting everyone's time.

There is very little "just playing games", there is a lot of doing very specific tasks to check features are working.  There are a lot of tickboxes (did every car load?  Do all the liveries work?  Do all the sponsors work?).  Freeform bug hunting needs you to have a specific mindset of identifying a weak area and trying to unpick every little thread there, you are going to have to find ways of break something.  There is a lot of seeing issues when you are doing something else, you need to get those, reproduce it with as short a method of reproduction as possible and log it on a database.

To all those asking, no it is not possible to work from home.  There is specific kit needed (test kits), you will need to regularly get new builds (which can be up to 50GB per platform, sometimes multiple a day), you will be updating shared spreadsheets on the network, logging issues on a database and talking to people is so helpful, IP whitelisting is needed for some equipment and that is not possible to get done for a home address.  If you are working at home and by yourself it makes it harder to evaluate how much you are working, especially if you are someone new.

I have worked only at Codemasters and in different parts of the QA process.  I have done some publishing QA, a lot of compliance work and a good bit of embedded QA.  I can answer a lot of questions, but I will call out "NDA!  NDA!" if I have to.

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NDA... :D

i would do it if it was from home. sadly it doesnt seem to fit in with codies :# :) downloading doesnt matter regardless of size. im surprised this isnt more flexable.

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i agree, millions work from home.Face to face is thing of the past ,unfortunately.And i have better internet at home :)

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i agree, millions work from home.Face to face is thing of the past ,unfortunately.And i have better internet at home :)
You have better internet that a local connection inside a building? I highly doubt that.

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dgeesi0 said:
NDA... :D

i would do it if it was from home. sadly it doesnt seem to fit in with codies :# :) downloading doesnt matter regardless of size. im surprised this isnt more flexable.
Some of the equipment would literally not work from your home.  It really helps to have people sitting together for getting the work done, talking about a problem with other people face to face is a great way to get through it.  I have done some working from home on rare occasions and coordinating with headsets and it is not the same.

It takes me ~10 minutes to install a PS4 build from the network, to do that at home would take longer as you would need to download it first and then install it.

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I get the bug-finding tasks etc
What about opinion on a feel/look?   Was that purely the Rally drivers call the last couple of times or do you have a panel of testers for that aspect?

Who drove Dirt Rally & dialled V2 physics in?  The character of a lot of cars clicked & were as you imagine them to actually be in reality 

Id love to have input into those aspects.  

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