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PJTierney

 

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Had a couple of tunnocks teacakes at the coffee morning do the other day.

Must say I prefer Wagon Wheels. The stuff in the top of the teacake was a bit runny/gooey for my marsh mellow tastes.

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Bigben has said this about the next WRC game

Hi there.
As you know, the Kylotonn Team has grown a lot in the past few years, even opening a second studio. They are able to handle different projects at the same time, but for 2018, let's celebrate the come-back of V-Rally 4. 
More information regarding any potential WRC sequel will be given at a later date.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/658700/discussions/0/1698293703768501966/

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er185 said:
Bigben has said this about the next WRC game

Hi there.
As you know, the Kylotonn Team has grown a lot in the past few years, even opening a second studio. They are able to handle different projects at the same time, but for 2018, let's celebrate the come-back of V-Rally 4. 
More information regarding any potential WRC sequel will be given at a later date.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/658700/discussions/0/1698293703768501966/
Well, if there were any lingering thoughts about Kylotton and BigBen still having the license, this should make them go away.

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er185 said:
Bigben has said this about the next WRC game

Hi there.
As you know, the Kylotonn Team has grown a lot in the past few years, even opening a second studio. They are able to handle different projects at the same time, but for 2018, let's celebrate the come-back of V-Rally 4. 
More information regarding any potential WRC sequel will be given at a later date.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/658700/discussions/0/1698293703768501966/
Well, if there were any lingering thoughts about Kylotton and BigBen still having the license, this should make them go away.
Not sure. You can read this either way: Bigben has the license and another studio is hard at work but it's too soon for an official announcement. Or Bigben doesn't have the license and another studio is hard at work but it's too soon for an official announcement.

What we can get out of this statement is that it is now 99.9% certain that Kylotonn is out of the picture.

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er185 said:
Bigben has said this about the next WRC game

Hi there.
As you know, the Kylotonn Team has grown a lot in the past few years, even opening a second studio. They are able to handle different projects at the same time, but for 2018, let's celebrate the come-back of V-Rally 4. 
More information regarding any potential WRC sequel will be given at a later date.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/658700/discussions/0/1698293703768501966/
They really seem to love to make two statements that could mean one the opposite of the other and put them side by side just to make sure no one understands anything, don't they?

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er185 said:
Bigben has said this about the next WRC game

Hi there.
As you know, the Kylotonn Team has grown a lot in the past few years, even opening a second studio. They are able to handle different projects at the same time, but for 2018, let's celebrate the come-back of V-Rally 4. 
More information regarding any potential WRC sequel will be given at a later date.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/658700/discussions/0/1698293703768501966/
Well, if there were any lingering thoughts about Kylotton and BigBen still having the license, this should make them go away.
Not sure. You can read this either way: Bigben has the license and another studio is hard at work but it's too soon for an official announcement. Or Bigben doesn't have the license and another studio is hard at work but it's too soon for an official announcement.

What we can get out of this statement is that it is now 99.9% certain that Kylotonn is out of the picture.
One of the curious things about that community manager's post was the use of the words 'any potential'. 'Potential' implies possible but not certain and, together with 'any', means the sequel may not be specific to them. I think, this statement, combined with the early cut-off of the e-sports WRC championship, is what tells me that BigBen are also out of the picture as owners of the coveted license, in the near future.

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er185 said:
Bigben has said this about the next WRC game

Hi there.
As you know, the Kylotonn Team has grown a lot in the past few years, even opening a second studio. They are able to handle different projects at the same time, but for 2018, let's celebrate the come-back of V-Rally 4. 
More information regarding any potential WRC sequel will be given at a later date.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/658700/discussions/0/1698293703768501966/
Well, if there were any lingering thoughts about Kylotton and BigBen still having the license, this should make them go away.

Will it?

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carpa said:
er185 said:
Bigben has said this about the next WRC game

Hi there.
As you know, the Kylotonn Team has grown a lot in the past few years, even opening a second studio. They are able to handle different projects at the same time, but for 2018, let's celebrate the come-back of V-Rally 4. 
More information regarding any potential WRC sequel will be given at a later date.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/658700/discussions/0/1698293703768501966/
They really seem to love to make two statements that could mean one the opposite of the other and put them side by side just to make sure no one understands anything, don't they?
Yes, they do. One thought that occured to me was: what if they're skipping one year to get more dev-time into WRC? Then in 2019, they release a WRC with two seasons in one game? Then I remember the other details that don't add up to this, and realize this really is a heck of a puzzle we have in our hands.

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carpa said:
er185 said:
Bigben has said this about the next WRC game

Hi there.
As you know, the Kylotonn Team has grown a lot in the past few years, even opening a second studio. They are able to handle different projects at the same time, but for 2018, let's celebrate the come-back of V-Rally 4. 
More information regarding any potential WRC sequel will be given at a later date.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/658700/discussions/0/1698293703768501966/
They really seem to love to make two statements that could mean one the opposite of the other and put them side by side just to make sure no one understands anything, don't they?
Yes, they do. One thought that occured to me was: what if they're skipping one year to get more dev-time into WRC? Then in 2019, they release a WRC with two seasons in one game? Then I remember the other details that don't add up to this, and realize this really is a heck of a puzzle we have in our hands.
We'll know in due time. It is an outside possibility to skip a year, but then it makes absolutely no sense to shorten the eSports season. And it would also make no sense to film Daniel Elena in México (those "other details" you referred to).

And it's still hard for me to believe that Bigben, if they still had the license, would pull their own studio Kylotonn (Bigben owns 25% of it) off of the project, unless V-Rally 4 was a shoe-in for financial success. After three years of teething, most of it very painful, it wouldn't make much sense for Bigben to kick Kylotonn off the project. After all, I am sure V-Rally 4 could have waited another year if there were one more WRC title standing in the way.


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We'll know in due time. It is an outside possibility to skip a year, but then it makes absolutely no sense to shorten the eSports season. And it would also make no sense to film Daniel Elena in México (those "other details" you referred to).
The shortening of the e-sports season, really throws a wrench in the skipping a year theory. If you were only extending the development of your next game and still held the license, why not let the championship run with WRC 7 alongside the real WRC, like it did in previous seasons, all the way through 2018?
And it's still hard for me to believe that Bigben, if they still had the license, would pull their own studio Kylotonn (Bigben owns 25% of it) off of the project, unless V-Rally 4 was a shoe-in for financial success. After three years of teething, most of it very painful, it wouldn't make much sense for Bigben to kick Kylotonn off the project. After all, I am sure V-Rally 4 could have waited another year if there were one more WRC title standing in the way.
Yes, and it's not just anyone in Kylotton that's been put working in V-Rally 4, it's Alain Jarniou, the guy who headed the WRC games. This gives me confidence in V-Rally 4, but BigBen are going to hand WRC away from the team who's been steering it closer and closer to the right direction? I don't think so.

And yes, V-Rally 4 could have definitely waited a year. However, may I present a (perhaps crazy) theory of why it's not? It's a swap with Codemasters. With Codemasters busy with the official WRC game, they get to make the DiRT-style, multi-discipline, offroad game and fill that hole in the market.

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 It's a swap with Codemasters. With Codemasters busy with the official WRC game, they get to make the DiRT-style, multi-discipline, offroad game and fill that hole in the market.
Lovely conspiracy theory. I love the behind-the-scenes I-pat-your-back, you-pat-mine. DiRT WRC confirmed!

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 It's a swap with Codemasters. With Codemasters busy with the official WRC game, they get to make the DiRT-style, multi-discipline, offroad game and fill that hole in the market.
Lovely conspiracy theory. I love the behind-the-scenes I-pat-your-back, you-pat-mine. DiRT WRC confirmed!
If Codemasters' WRC turns out better than WRC 7 and V-Rally 4 beats DiRT 4, which it could very well do, it's a win for both devs. Score even! B)

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Well if the aim was to kill any speculation with that announcement then that really worked.

Not. :)

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I don’t know what’s happening with Big Ben, but I don’t think the license will be with codies. I can’t see them dropping the WRX partnership, unless they are making separate wrx and wrc games, which I also doubt will happen.

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One theory I had was that perhaps there was some uncertainty over the licence in 2018 so Big Ben began work on V-Rally 4 as a replacement. And when the licence was actually worked out V-Rally4 was already on its way so they renew it from 2019 and onwards. I remember something happening like that with the WRC licence back in 2013 I think. Where they skipped the 2014 season

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One theory I had was that perhaps there was some uncertainty over the licence in 2018 so Big Ben began work on V-Rally 4 as a replacement. And when the licence was actually worked out V-Rally4 was already on its way so they renew it from 2019 and onwards. I remember something happening like that with the WRC licence back in 2013 I think. Where they skipped the 2014 season
The only problem I see with this hypothesis is that Daniel Elena did filming in México for the WRC game. That wouldn't have happened if there was not going to be a 2018 game. 

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One theory I had was that perhaps there was some uncertainty over the licence in 2018 so Big Ben began work on V-Rally 4 as a replacement. And when the licence was actually worked out V-Rally4 was already on its way so they renew it from 2019 and onwards. I remember something happening like that with the WRC licence back in 2013 I think. Where they skipped the 2014 season
The only problem I see with this hypothesis is that Daniel Elena did filming in México for the WRC game. That wouldn't have happened if there was not going to be a 2018 game. 
Unless they are including WRC Legends in the upcoming games?

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We'll know in due time. It is an outside possibility to skip a year, but then it makes absolutely no sense to shorten the eSports season. And it would also make no sense to film Daniel Elena in México (those "other details" you referred to).
The shortening of the e-sports season, really throws a wrench in the skipping a year theory. If you were only extending the development of your next game and still held the license, why not let the championship run with WRC 7 alongside the real WRC, like it did in previous seasons, all the way through 2018?
And it's still hard for me to believe that Bigben, if they still had the license, would pull their own studio Kylotonn (Bigben owns 25% of it) off of the project, unless V-Rally 4 was a shoe-in for financial success. After three years of teething, most of it very painful, it wouldn't make much sense for Bigben to kick Kylotonn off the project. After all, I am sure V-Rally 4 could have waited another year if there were one more WRC title standing in the way.
Yes, and it's not just anyone in Kylotton that's been put working in V-Rally 4, it's Alain Jarniou, the guy who headed the WRC games. This gives me confidence in V-Rally 4, but BigBen are going to hand WRC away from the team who's been steering it closer and closer to the right direction? I don't think so.

And yes, V-Rally 4 could have definitely waited a year. However, may I present a (perhaps crazy) theory of why it's not? It's a swap with Codemasters. With Codemasters busy with the official WRC game, they get to make the DiRT-style, multi-discipline, offroad game and fill that hole in the market.
Thing is, Codies don't share the publisher with Kylotonn. DiRT 4 was published by Codemasters while WRC 7 by BigBen Interactive. So the swap wouldn't be as easy as the one between Milestone and Kylotonn

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I don’t know what’s happening with Big Ben, but I don’t think the license will be with codies. I can’t see them dropping the WRX partnership, unless they are making separate wrx and wrc games, which I also doubt will happen.
You do have a good point with the WRX partnership. One of the things that crossed my mind, that they could be developing, is a pure WRX game. Then again, the game that was supposed to be an official WRX title, DiRT 4, did not fare very well. Having said that, it was the poor rally part that let DiRT 4 down, the rallycross content was pretty good.
One theory I had was that perhaps there was some uncertainty over the licence in 2018 so Big Ben began work on V-Rally 4 as a replacement. And when the licence was actually worked out V-Rally4 was already on its way so they renew it from 2019 and onwards. I remember something happening like that with the WRC licence back in 2013 I think. Where they skipped the 2014 season
If this is true, it could bode well for V-Rally 4's car list. I would like that game to include WRCs, even if only 2016 ones, just like previous V-Rally entries did.
bogani said:
Unless they are including WRC Legends in the upcoming games?
Another possible scenario. Having a legends mode in the new game.

The wording on BigBen's response to the WRC 8 question could also be interpreted as: "V-Rally 4 now, after that, we talk WRC again".

One thing about V-Rally 4 is for sure: it's shaping up to be a DiRT competitor.

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One theory I had was that perhaps there was some uncertainty over the licence in 2018 so Big Ben began work on V-Rally 4 as a replacement. And when the licence was actually worked out V-Rally4 was already on its way so they renew it from 2019 and onwards. I remember something happening like that with the WRC licence back in 2013 I think. Where they skipped the 2014 season
There must be quite some logistical problems in organising a takeover of something like this, for everyone.

From what I have seen there is strong evidence to suggest the current licencing period ends at the end of July 2018 (but that isn't 100% certain). My guess is that they would have started negotiations about a year before that. In any case both CM and Kyloton are in a better position than someone starting from scratch as Dirt can become WRC and WRC can become VRally. It's one way of hedging the outcome. Still getting a game ready for the pre-xmas release window would be a tough job for someone new, and if it doesn't get out before xmas then you're looking at maybe march april time to get over the post xmas dead zone. That doesn't exactly sync up well with the WRC season proper, which would be a nice thing to do.

Vrally remains the strongest hint yet to me that something may be up, but you can't completely discount the possibility that they have decided to push back the release of WRC to sync it with the WRC season a bit better (maybe beginning to mid december). Still, I would have thought that they would be looking to get a 6 month split between the two releases, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

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Regarding RX, I think we will soon see an official stand-alone game from either Codemasters or Slightly Mad Studios. Both have licensed cars and tracks although the official license is with Codemasters. Both studios already have the cars and roughly half of the tracks modeled. With the growth that World RX is experiencing I think at this time it could work as a stand-alone game, especially given the fact that both studios already have created many of the assets necessary for a 100% complete official RX game and therefore the investment in development would be minimal compared to starting from scratch. I could definitely see either studio doing an official RX game.

Could we end up with DiRT going all-in on official rally titles? DiRT RX along with DiRT WRC? Or could SMS be working on a full RX title or, as Ian Bell stated was his intention at some point, a point-to-point rally title?

Speaking of SMS, I wonder what they are up to. Fast & Furious was supposed to follow Project CARS 2 yet we haven't heard a thing. F&F was supposed to be officially announced in October 2017.

This genre is getting way too crowded. I doubt the market is big enough to support all these titles. DiRT 1/2/3/4/5 etc..., DiRT Rally, WRC, V-Rally, Gravel, a future Milestone rally title (SLRE 2?) and throw into the mix a possible SMS rally game. As a rally fan I buy everything off-road I can find but I know I am in the minority. I doubt many of my fellow PS4 owners own all of these games (I have other racing games, these are just the ones with off-road content):

  • DiRT Rally
  • DiRT 4
  • Sébastien Loeb Rally EVO
  • Gravel
  • Project CARS 2
  • WRC 5
  • WRC 6
  • WRC 7
  • Baja: Edge of Control HD
  • Dakar 18 (day one for me when it is released)
  • V-Rally 4 (day one for me when it is released)
Honestly, just look at that list and ask yourself what percentage of the 75 million PS4 userbase is willing to own all the above games. My guess is 0.1%. And I would imagine that of those 75 million, besides PC2, less than 1% own one of the other games on the list.

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Regarding RX, I think we will soon see an official stand-alone game from either Codemasters or Slightly Mad Studios. Both have licensed cars and tracks although the official license is with Codemasters. Both studios already have the cars and roughly half of the tracks modeled. With the growth that World RX is experiencing I think at this time it could work as a stand-alone game, especially given the fact that both studios already have created many of the assets necessary for a 100% complete official RX game and therefore the investment in development would be minimal compared to starting from scratch. I could definitely see either studio doing an official RX game.

Could we end up with DiRT going all-in on official rally titles? DiRT RX along with DiRT WRC? Or could SMS be working on a full RX title or, as Ian Bell stated was his intention at some point, a point-to-point rally title?

Speaking of SMS, I wonder what they are up to. Fast & Furious was supposed to follow Project CARS 2 yet we haven't heard a thing. F&F was supposed to be officially announced in October 2017.

This genre is getting way too crowded. I doubt the market is big enough to support all these titles. DiRT 1/2/3/4/5 etc..., DiRT Rally, WRC, V-Rally, Gravel, a future Milestone rally title (SLRE 2?) and throw into the mix a possible SMS rally game. As a rally fan I buy everything off-road I can find but I know I am in the minority. I doubt many of my fellow PS4 owners own all of these games (I have other racing games, these are just the ones with off-road content):

  • DiRT Rally
  • DiRT 4
  • Sébastien Loeb Rally EVO
  • Gravel
  • Project CARS 2
  • WRC 5
  • WRC 6
  • WRC 7
  • Baja: Edge of Control HD
  • Dakar 18 (day one for me when it is released)
  • V-Rally 4 (day one for me when it is released)
Honestly, just look at that list and ask yourself what percentage of the 75 million PS4 userbase is willing to own all the above games. My guess is 0.1%. And I would imagine that of those 75 million, besides PC2, less than 1% own one of the other games on the list.
Pcars 2 doesn't sit in the same space as the rest of the rally games above, even if it does have the rally content. It's too damn hard and fiddly for casual players to use.
I would say we are unlikely to see another Rally EVO. I think milestone are more likely to carry on with the Bike sims and open world.
Dakar is the interesting one. The big one above that you missed out is the FH series which has been a monster seller on XB1. There's no equivalent to that on PS4. Will Dakar be it ? We shall see.
I don't see a separate Rx release on the cards but who knows.

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As a rally fan I buy everything off-road I can find but I know I am in the minority. I doubt many of my fellow PS4 owners own all of these games (I have other racing games, these are just the ones with off-road content):

  • DiRT Rally
  • DiRT 4
  • Sébastien Loeb Rally EVO
  • Gravel
  • Project CARS 2
  • WRC 5
  • WRC 6
  • WRC 7
  • Baja: Edge of Control HD
  • Dakar 18 (day one for me when it is released)
  • V-Rally 4 (day one for me when it is released)
Honestly, just look at that list and ask yourself what percentage of the 75 million PS4 userbase is willing to own all the above games. My guess is 0.1%. And I would imagine that of those 75 million, besides PC2, less than 1% own one of the other games on the list.
I'm like you, but on PC. I have (I think) every PC rally game ever, and plan some YouTube playlists of them all, once I've finished with my current F1 playlists! I've got all those above on PC, heh, apart from Gravel (should be getting it soon though).

My main issue is games with rally cars in; are they rally games? Is Forza Horizon 3? GTA V has some rally-clone cars too... it's tricky!

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@dirt3joe you're right, I was limiting myself to PS4. Not taking into account FH or RBR (still relevant even today) or the possible GRally. GT Sport has rally content but it's so pathetic it doesn't deserve to be on the list. And honestly, I do think PC2 belongs on the list because of how good the RX content is, but I do agree with you regarding PC2 being an intimidating game for beginners and casuals.

Interesting about FH. You are correct that there is nothing like it barring stuff like The Crew which isn't exactly the same. Maybe you're right that Milestone has given up on rally. Maybe they will make an open-world off-road game. Gravel sure points to that as a possible first step.

Dakar 18 has nothing in common with FH besides both being open-world. Dakar 18, after seeing the gameplay videos, looks like it is shaping up to be more of a navigational challenge rather than an off-road racing game (the car dynamics look very iffy; I am waiting for some footage of cars getting stuck in the sand, flipping after taking a jump the wrong way, etc...). But that's OK, because half of the challenge of the Dakar is reading and interpreting the road book.

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