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Did you know that the long-time members of this thread have had a DiRTy Gossip Discord server for a while?

You do now 😉 

 

 

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KickUp said:

The cars are exactly the same mass between v1 and v2. The effect of the aero (downforce) is more accurate hence the perceived reduction in weight. What we had in v1 was way too much and very primative. What we have now is much more complex and accurate but I'm not going to claim it is perfect. 

Rewriting the aero again to make it even more accurate is going to take a long time as it is incredibly complex mathematics. We will then have to rebuild every single car from the ground up to support it. 

The simulation team moved mountains to get v2 into the game but a v3 is not going to happen any time soon. 
Thanks for clarifying. I was just saying they were lighter as a general way of conveying how I felt about them. I can't claim to have a clue as to what goes on in the physics department.

Since V2 will remain for quite some time, is it possible we could see tires become harder to pop? I'm totally fine with V2 if tires are made tougher to compensate for the larger air. Maybe 10-20% tougher?
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Meeeeee!

Which stages are you doing? I'm skipping Shakedown this year, due to their ridiculous new ticket policy, but Myherin on Friday and attempting Gartheinog and Aberhirnant on Saturday. I never stay for the last day of any rally, so back home to Yorkshire Saturday night.

And if it's getting to page 2, clearly we need some new gossip.....
Shakedown, Hafren, Garth, Dyfnant and Brenig for me. Look out for the black Fabia vRS in the Garth car park with a DiRT Rally sticker in the rear window ;)
Working or playing?
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ramPage16 said:
KickUp said:

The cars are exactly the same mass between v1 and v2. The effect of the aero (downforce) is more accurate hence the perceived reduction in weight. What we had in v1 was way too much and very primative. What we have now is much more complex and accurate but I'm not going to claim it is perfect. 

Rewriting the aero again to make it even more accurate is going to take a long time as it is incredibly complex mathematics. We will then have to rebuild every single car from the ground up to support it. 

The simulation team moved mountains to get v2 into the game but a v3 is not going to happen any time soon. 
Thanks for clarifying. I was just saying they were lighter as a general way of conveying how I felt about them. I can't claim to have a clue as to what goes on in the physics department.

Since V2 will remain for quite some time, is it possible we could see tires become harder to pop? I'm totally fine with V2 if tires are made tougher to compensate for the larger air. Maybe 10-20% tougher?
I've almost never get a puncture on landings. I rarely go flat out over the big ones though, I treat them with care just to stay out of trouble.
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Dytut said:
KickUp said:
ramPage16 said:
V2 cars are just lighter and therefore jump further. The general consensus is that yes, V2 feels much better, but the cars are in the air for too long. I'd say somewhere inbetween the air time of V1 and V2 would be juuuust right.
The cars are exactly the same mass between v1 and v2. The effect of the aero (downforce) is more accurate hence the perceived reduction in weight. What we had in v1 was way too much and very primative. What we have now is much more complex and accurate but I'm not going to claim it is perfect. 

Rewriting the aero again to make it even more accurate is going to take a long time as it is incredibly complex mathematics. We will then have to rebuild every single car from the ground up to support it. 

The simulation team moved mountains to get v2 into the game but a v3 is not going to happen any time soon. 
Well understood :-) Is there any possibility of an "ugly/quick" hotfix for v2 flight time or is that completely off the charts?
No, its so fundamental that it wouldn't be possible to do it this way. Sorry
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ramPage16 said:
Thanks for clarifying. I was just saying they were lighter as a general way of conveying how I felt about them. I can't claim to have a clue as to what goes on in the physics department.

Since V2 will remain for quite some time, is it possible we could see tires become harder to pop? I'm totally fine with V2 if tires are made tougher to compensate for the larger air. Maybe 10-20% tougher?
Possibly, if we can we will.

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KickUp said:
Dytut said:
KickUp said:
ramPage16 said:
V2 cars are just lighter and therefore jump further. The general consensus is that yes, V2 feels much better, but the cars are in the air for too long. I'd say somewhere inbetween the air time of V1 and V2 would be juuuust right.
The cars are exactly the same mass between v1 and v2. The effect of the aero (downforce) is more accurate hence the perceived reduction in weight. What we had in v1 was way too much and very primative. What we have now is much more complex and accurate but I'm not going to claim it is perfect. 

Rewriting the aero again to make it even more accurate is going to take a long time as it is incredibly complex mathematics. We will then have to rebuild every single car from the ground up to support it. 

The simulation team moved mountains to get v2 into the game but a v3 is not going to happen any time soon. 
Well understood :-) Is there any possibility of an "ugly/quick" hotfix for v2 flight time or is that completely off the charts?
No, its so fundamental that it wouldn't be possible to do it this way. Sorry
I can understand that, but the follow-up question was about making tyres harder to pop on landing. I'm sure you have parameters for tyre lateral force for when sliding into a rock, and also a vertical force for landing a jump; can the last one be desensitised a bit UNLESS you tell us that these parameters are accurately modelled based on real tyre performance, in which case I'll just suck it up.
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KickUp said:
ramPage16 said:
Thanks for clarifying. I was just saying they were lighter as a general way of conveying how I felt about them. I can't claim to have a clue as to what goes on in the physics department.

Since V2 will remain for quite some time, is it possible we could see tires become harder to pop? I'm totally fine with V2 if tires are made tougher to compensate for the larger air. Maybe 10-20% tougher?
Possibly, if we can we will.

That sounds pretty nice.
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KickUp said:
ramPage16 said:
V2 cars are just lighter and therefore jump further. The general consensus is that yes, V2 feels much better, but the cars are in the air for too long. I'd say somewhere inbetween the air time of V1 and V2 would be juuuust right.
The cars are exactly the same mass between v1 and v2. The effect of the aero (downforce) is more accurate hence the perceived reduction in weight. What we had in v1 was way too much and very primative. What we have now is much more complex and accurate but I'm not going to claim it is perfect. 

Rewriting the aero again to make it even more accurate is going to take a long time as it is incredibly complex mathematics. We will then have to rebuild every single car from the ground up to support it. 

The simulation team moved mountains to get v2 into the game but a v3 is not going to happen any time soon. 
Would it be a possibility (or easier) to reduce the jump gradients in Wales and Finland slightly, to suit the reduced downforce of V2, rather than a total re-build on car physics, as obviously, the stages were designed around the older V1 car model?

If not, & V3 is a runner, will we see less lateral grip to allow maintained slip angles?  
YouTube is coming down with drift videos for each and every driving game available at the minute, except this one!  Id love to see a big increase in DiRT Rally Escort Mk2/M3/Manta 400 Germany/Monte Carlo Drift video's.  
Those were rallying glory-days, but quite impossible to emulate in the game due to current grip levels!  I understand that you risk making the cars 'too hard' to drive to many, but many would enjoy mastering them too.   :)
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Page 2. This is not acceptable. 

So whose going to Rally GB this weekend then? 
Sadly not. A mate and I were debating going, but he is now busy and I have work to do, so I'll have to give it a miss. The Tempest last weekend will be my only rally of 2015 (for shame!).

Look forward to watching some video!
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Am I the only one who's perfectly happy with the punctures if you overdo a jump? If it is reduced, I hope suspension damage is upped as a trade-off.
Generally speaking, a tire should never get a puncture from just landing as the suspension takes most of the impact on itself. In other words, sooner the suspension would collapse from a too long jump than a tire, which is the most robust piece in a car next to the anti-roll bars. I mean come on chaps, we see F1 cars with the slicks crash at nearly 300km/h and the only thing that isn't "damaged" is the tire (unless it obviously hit something that could easily pierce or deeply cut through the tire, which is the only way to damage a rubber).

Then again, the model system is generally speaking wonky as hell. I hit with the front, rear lights go out. I hit the bumper from the right side, it starts falling out from the left side. I scratch the wall/tree on the right side, I get a puncture on the left side. And so on and so forth. Heck, I once fixed all my broken headlights by landing too hard...
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tbtstt said:
Page 2. This is not acceptable. 

So whose going to Rally GB this weekend then? 
Sadly not. A mate and I were debating going, but he is now busy and I have work to do, so I'll have to give it a miss. The Tempest last weekend will be my only rally of 2015 (for shame!).

Look forward to watching some video!
Didn't know you were at the tempest! We were only that stage 3, wanted to do more but my brother's gearbox broke for the 4th event in a row! :(

In gossip news, the F1 games have a permanent community manager now. Hopefully we will also see some more community stuff
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Meeeeee!

Which stages are you doing? I'm skipping Shakedown this year, due to their ridiculous new ticket policy, but Myherin on Friday and attempting Gartheinog and Aberhirnant on Saturday. I never stay for the last day of any rally, so back home to Yorkshire Saturday night.

And if it's getting to page 2, clearly we need some new gossip.....
Shakedown, Hafren, Garth, Dyfnant and Brenig for me. Look out for the black Fabia vRS in the Garth car park with a DiRT Rally sticker in the rear window ;)
Working or playing?
Playing, but the camera will still be to hand. Depending how wet it is of course!
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Meeeeee!

Which stages are you doing? I'm skipping Shakedown this year, due to their ridiculous new ticket policy, but Myherin on Friday and attempting Gartheinog and Aberhirnant on Saturday. I never stay for the last day of any rally, so back home to Yorkshire Saturday night.

And if it's getting to page 2, clearly we need some new gossip.....
Shakedown, Hafren, Garth, Dyfnant and Brenig for me. Look out for the black Fabia vRS in the Garth car park with a DiRT Rally sticker in the rear window ;)
Working or playing?
Playing, but the camera will still be to hand. Depending how wet it is of course!
I've just bought myself some waterproof overs to put over my overs :D I am now fully prepared 
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tbtstt said:
Page 2. This is not acceptable. 

So whose going to Rally GB this weekend then? 
Sadly not. A mate and I were debating going, but he is now busy and I have work to do, so I'll have to give it a miss. The Tempest last weekend will be my only rally of 2015 (for shame!).

Look forward to watching some video!
Didn't know you were at the tempest! We were only that stage 3, wanted to do more but my brother's gearbox broke for the 4th event in a row! :(

In gossip news, the F1 games have a permanent community manager now. Hopefully we will also see some more community stuff
You were there? Ha! Funnily enough I asked @Rallycameraman if he was going to be there, but not you! 

Was rather a restrictive affair for spectators this year, so I ended up spending the day on Warren. Awful weather in the morning, but wasn't too bad in the afternoon. 
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In gossip news, the F1 games have a permanent community manager now. Hopefully we will also see some more community stuff
*waves* Hoping to not be a stranger to you guys too!

chukonu said:
(*^▽^)/ Hi!
                             
So Jenny, do you double up as F1/DiRT community manager or something? I noticed you did post the release notes for 0.9 I think, or one of the blog updates. Will you tell us embarrassing stories of @KickUp in his work environment?
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In gossip news, the F1 games have a permanent community manager now. Hopefully we will also see some more community stuff
*waves* Hoping to not be a stranger to you guys too!
Hi and welcome :-) Just remember that if you ever get into a tight spot in the dirt rally forums, just as what Subaru WRC model was running in a specific year and gently sneak away from the situation ;-)
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tbtstt said:
tbtstt said:
Page 2. This is not acceptable. 

So whose going to Rally GB this weekend then? 
Sadly not. A mate and I were debating going, but he is now busy and I have work to do, so I'll have to give it a miss. The Tempest last weekend will be my only rally of 2015 (for shame!).

Look forward to watching some video!
Didn't know you were at the tempest! We were only that stage 3, wanted to do more but my brother's gearbox broke for the 4th event in a row! :(

In gossip news, the F1 games have a permanent community manager now. Hopefully we will also see some more community stuff
You were there? Ha! Funnily enough I asked @Rallycameraman if he was going to be there, but not you! 

Was rather a restrictive affair for spectators this year, so I ended up spending the day on Warren. Awful weather in the morning, but wasn't too bad in the afternoon. 
Yeah the weather was pretty awful! I took my go pro out the rally car in an attempt to be all professional!

https://youtu.be/Qn3jicMqg74 

I'll probably leave it to Luke in the future!
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KevM said:
@thecraicbear does do an awesome consommé
It's particularly favorable and flavorful. Not too thick, and not too thin. In fact, it's a perfect soup to flask-up and take with you for a cold day in the Welsh forests watching the rally this weekend. 

Forget your waterproof overalls, and your wellington boots; you'll feel like you're wearing the most ostentatious dressing gown made from the finest materials, matched with some tremendous cushion-like slippers, in the obvious shape of bear paws. 
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Hang on a second, are we seriously talking about making the tyres tougher everywhere just for the sake of Finland?
Why compromise the other 5 locations when all you have to do in Finland is apply a tiny bit of brake before a jump and try to land cleanly?
I haven't punctured a tyre purely from cleanly going over a jump in Finland since the 3rd day of the community test before it even went public!
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@jennyannem   Hello!

As others have said, this thread is an institution for DiRT Rally Gossip, past present and hopefully for the future.  

The only arguments you will see here are over spoilers and grills.  Maybe we get a little whiny about sound and handling, but never trashing you guys for not delivering something.

Oh yeah, I whine about no American rally events in DiRT Rally, but I am getting therapy for that.

All we will ever ask of you is for some gossip to well.. gossip about.

But you know about this already.   
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Am I the only one who's perfectly happy with the punctures if you overdo a jump? If it is reduced, I hope suspension damage is upped as a trade-off.
Generally speaking, a tire should never get a puncture from just landing as the suspension takes most of the impact on itself. In other words, sooner the suspension would collapse from a too long jump than a tire, which is the most robust piece in a car next to the anti-roll bars. I mean come on chaps, we see F1 cars with the slicks crash at nearly 300km/h and the only thing that isn't "damaged" is the tire (unless it obviously hit something that could easily pierce or deeply cut through the tire, which is the only way to damage a rubber).

Then again, the model system is generally speaking wonky as hell. I hit with the front, rear lights go out. I hit the bumper from the right side, it starts falling out from the left side. I scratch the wall/tree on the right side, I get a puncture on the left side. And so on and so forth. Heck, I once fixed all my broken headlights by landing too hard...
My foreign language comprehension is at minimum levels... 

I broke all car lights, front and rear ones, after a landing too. Ok, when I was on air I saw even the sea and it was a very though landing with a couple of flat wheels included.

But other times, the landing was perfect on the 4 wheels (remained intact) and all headlights died.

I noticed too the "side changed" damage, quite curious
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Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
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gfRally said:
Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
Our car, along with my back, would be ****ed if we took one of those jumps flat out!
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Chillout with a bit of snow. That i20 and Polo will be awsome. Watching the video I want so bad to get the new update!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNB3DbKyRO4

Notice how drivers can touch the snow piles without any problem. Some snow splash , thats all.
I really hope the new technology for snow mounds will work something like that.

And there are some pretty fast sections.. wowowowow... with those narrow tyres!
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gfRally said:
Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
in interviews of rally finlanf drivers often say they go flatout.  there is no reason to getting a puncture just by jumping......
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teknoid85 said:
gfRally said:
Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
in interviews of rally finlanf drivers often say they go flatout.  there is no reason to getting a puncture just by jumping......
Note how he said non-WRC car.

This is a kind of flawed argument right off the bat though.
As we clearly know, the cars in the game are flying further and higher than real ones.
You especially know this since almost every post you made was that very subject.  :p

So we're going to have to treat these jumps a little bit differently than we do in real life.
Same as we do for quite a lot of this game, or any game, because they aren't perfect.
Hit those jumps a little slower and more carefully, you'll jump in a way that is closer to real life and the tyres are very unlikely to puncture.
Hit them flat out and you will jump in a way different from real life, a more severe way, so it's not unreasonable that the consequences are also different and more severe.
Cause and effect.

I almost wonder how many people who say they want a hardcore damage mode would actually use it if we're complaining about punctures from the altitudes and impact force of these jumps. Given how the cars are flying, flat out DiRT Rally style jumps will just destroy the suspension and the  wheels themselves would just burst up through the bodywork.
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BrySkye said:
teknoid85 said:
gfRally said:
Talk to anyone in a non WRC car that rally's in RL about jumps of any kind.  Most will tell you they tap brakes before a jump, most cars just can't handle a beating like that, lots of struts going thru the towers and occasionally the hood (bonnet).   

In RL we wouldn't take the chances and speed that we do in the games, the risk isn't there, no resets in real life.  
in interviews of rally finlanf drivers often say they go flatout.  there is no reason to getting a puncture just by jumping......
Note how he said non-WRC car.

This is a kind of flawed argument right off the bat though.
As we clearly know, the cars in the game are flying further and higher than real ones.
You especially know this since almost every post you made was that very subject.  :p

So we're going to have to treat these jumps a little bit differently than we do in real life.
Same as we do for quite a lot of this game, or any game, because they aren't perfect.
Hit those jumps a little slower and more carefully, you'll jump in a way that is closer to real life and the tyres are very unlikely to puncture.
Hit them flat out and you will jump in a way different from real life, a more severe way, so it's not unreasonable that the consequences are also different and more severe.

I almost wonder how many people who say they want a hardcore damage mode would actually use it if we're complaining about punctures from the altitudes and impact force of these jumps. Given how the cars are flying, flat out DiRT Rally style jumps will just destroy the suspension and the  wheels themselves would just burst up through the bodywork.
i agree that a non wrc car will wreck if  jump is too big,  but the tyres ....if they are new................. hmmmmm i don't know......
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I have seen struts going through bonnets & competitors retiring from events with a busted back following a heavy landing, but that's normally been a crest on tarmac with a full semi-solid tarmac suspension.  
Finding a nice forestry suspension setup in real life or in-game, that soaks up the bumps with silky smoothness, really should reward you when you can start push, but then, POP, puncture after the first (perfect, moderate speed) landing 5 corners into Kontinjarvi...  Stage over.  

I keep saying it, the jumps were profiled to give old fat V1 cars a bit of air.  The jumps need toned down to match the downforce reduction of the V2 fliers.
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Re-profiling the tracks would be an absolutely massive undertaking, even if it was 'just' the jumps being changed.
The geometry needs to be changed, it affects the side of the track meaning every single rock and tree needs to be adjusted, etc.
It's not going to happen any more rapidly than another new physics pass and we really don't need Paul to tell us that (though he did already basically say as much in the DiRT Show anyway. They have their hands full just considering updating Monte with the soft snow tech).
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I have no doubt it would be massive, but I genuinely don't think they can solve airtime with altering the physics.  Making the cars feel heavier (forced aero) than V2 would likely be seen as a step backwards, unless original downforce is restored but power is greatly increased and grip reduced to suit!?
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It depends what the actual problems are. We're assuming it's the track, but then again that's something they've made based on their measurements from actually going there with spirit levels, etc.
Did they tweak them to fly better? Maybe. Then again, work on v2 began back in May so they would have had a long time to know if Finland was going to 'fly' as it were)
The physics is a lot of factors. Generally, Paul is saying its how the cars behave on an aerodynamic level, which doesn't strictly have anything to do with mass anyway, so making the cars 'heavier' wouldn't need to be done.
For example, if the cars are generating too much lift while flying. Then you would change that without touching the mass or downforce and the car won't fly so far. He's already said the cars mass (kudos to you @KickUp for knowing that if we're throwing around KG, it's mass not weight!) is the same between v1 and 2.

So we don't know the tracks are the problem. Paul doesn't seem to think they are the main issue.
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Oh they get lift alright, I had the Quattro literally landing on its tail-lights in Finland, it got that much nose-lift on wee jumps.

I don't think the stages are replicated to that extent, that the jumps are angled the same as the road they are based on.  We'll see when Sweden comes.  If we get Colin's Crest (speculation) & jump distances in a 2010 car feel similar to what the real jump distances are known to be, then it would indicate that course design is very much to suit current car physics & that original stages are 'V1 friendly'.

& just on a slightly different possible issue of physics, does anyone know how to install a RallyX car on the stages?  They 'seem' to be capable of holding slip angle more than a rally car, like they are on a slightly different setup to V2 & I'd love to try a quick experiment !!
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BrySkye said:
Note how he said non-WRC car.

This is a kind of flawed argument right off the bat though.
As we clearly know, the cars in the game are flying further and higher than real ones.
You especially know this since almost every post you made was that very subject.  :p

So we're going to have to treat these jumps a little bit differently than we do in real life.
Same as we do for quite a lot of this game, or any game, because they aren't perfect.
Hit those jumps a little slower and more carefully, you'll jump in a way that is closer to real life and the tyres are very unlikely to puncture.
Hit them flat out and you will jump in a way different from real life, a more severe way, so it's not unreasonable that the consequences are also different and more severe.
Cause and effect.
I'm 100% unhappy about getting a puncture from something that is incapable of delivering a puncture to a rally spec tire on a rally spec car, such as landing on a surface that doesn't have sharp objects which are big enough to pierce through the tire.
I'm 100% happy about getting the suspension collapsing due to jumping too far which means I would have to take all those jumps a lot slower. Nothing wrong with it. That's why people with non-WRC cars slow down, not because of tires, but because of suspension. I remember perfectly how in one of the WRC transmissions (2005 year Finland I believe) they were explaining why going flat-out through jumps is a risky stuff for the cars suspension. Not tire.

I really don't want to be getting a puncture every single time after hitting a snow bank with a wheel while spinning out... And yes, that happened. Too many times. No one will ever convince me that a snow is capable of puncturing a tire (snow, not ice).

Tire puncturing system is just plain out wrong. Instead of finding excuses why you need to slow down on the jumps, I think it's better to acknowledge the issue, inform about it Codies and hope for a fix to it. The fear for the punctures needs to stop.
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KevM said:
I don't think the stages are replicated to that extent, that the jumps are angled the same as the road they are based on.  We'll see when Sweden comes.  If we get Colin's Crest (speculation) & jump distances in a 2010 car feel similar to what the real jump distances are known to be, then it would indicate that course design is very much to suit current car physics & that original stages are 'V1 friendly'.

& just on a slightly different possible issue of physics, does anyone know how to install a RallyX car on the stages?  They 'seem' to be capable of holding slip angle more than a rally car, like they are on a slightly different setup to V2 & I'd love to try a quick experiment !!
Given the short amount of time between Finland and Sweden, don't expect any changes to have been made just to accommodate v2 cars.
Like I said, work began on those back in May and we had 1.5 released in June. If it's down to track design, thoughts to adjust Finland would have already been flying around internally some time ago.

As for putting an RX car on a rally stage (or vice versa! but be wary doing that since Rally cars don't have AI models), you basically just have to pick a rally car to replace, back up its folder and move it to somewhere else on your HDD, copy/paste the RX car to make a duplicate and then rename every single file to be the same as the car you are replacing. 
This might look like the Subaru 555, but it's actually the Celica GT4 (though with importing a DiRT 3 car, you don't replace everything)


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KevM said:
Good man, & would the RX physics carry (I'm assuming it does if the AI crew come along to play lol )?  
If you're renaming all the RX files, then yes. It's all in that folder.
I've taken the Impreza, as a Celica, up Pikes Peak with the Impreza physics. Was a joy.
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We know two things: V2 cars catch more air then they should and Finland jumps are exaggerated. It only makes sense that as a temporary solution tires are made tougher to compensate. Compare the yellow house jump in this game to real life and you'll see they take that jump flat out no problem. While if you take it fast in this game, well, you know what happens. I'm fine with having to brake for crests. Not fine with the inconsistent punctures.
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BrySkye said:
KevM said:
Good man, & would the RX physics carry (I'm assuming it does if the AI crew come along to play lol )?  
If you're renaming all the RX files, then yes. It's all in that folder.
I've taken the Impreza, as a Celica, up Pikes Peak with the Impreza physics. Was a joy.
Very nice, look's like I've just garnered a new interest in DR, But it means I'm going to have to make a lot of duplicate folders... I wonder if there's any way to get into the code files to just remove the restrictions? If only my programmer friend was interested in DR.
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