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2 minutes ago, FlatOverCrest said:

I want super long stages. There are plenty of longer real rally stages to justify it. The max stage length in the WRC is 80 km/50 miles and they actually had a stage that was that long back in 2016. I'm not saying I want stages that are 80 km long but I would like one 25+ km stage and at least one other unique stage per location. I want unique stage mileage and not just one small/medium stage cut up 6 different ways and run in reverse. That's just not enough to keep it fresh in my opinion. They could always put an event length slider or setting for people that didn't want to play the full length stages in career mode and people could just select smaller slices in custom events of that's what they prefer. Real rally is difficult and most events are over 200+ km. I'm just not a fan of being told there 100+ stages in a rally game when to me it's really just 13 small/medium stages chopped up and reversed. Total unique stages miles matters more than how many segments you can chop stages into.

True. But what can Codemasters really do if just one 25+ km stage takes 2-3 months to complete? There are 13 or so locations with 1-2 real life stages in dr 2.0 that they've added over two 1/2 years give or take. Ill assume half of those were scanned after dirt 4 released. Granted maybe Spain and Australia might of had some assets spill over from dirt 4. So maybe we can assume it takes one 1/2 years to complete one 25km stage for 6 locations.

Man. The whole dirt team working on dirt rally should alleviate at least some of the workload but can they really release more than 6 new locations before dr 3.0 releases? let alone just 1 more 25km parent stage per location by early 2022? If they're doing GaS and if I had to pick I would pick releasing locations over extra 25km parent stage and do what you suggest and give an option to chose how long you want the rally to be. but idk 

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Digital Foundry have benchmarked the new Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti here:

 

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Dirt Rally 2.0 is a tricky, flicky kind of game, and the benchmark is much the same.

The 2080 Super holds a small advantage over the 3060 Ti here, to the tune of 1fps at 4K - so not much in it at all. I'd want to drop the graphical settings a bit to guarantee a smooth experience - these corners can be killer and some might say that the 8x MSAA specified in the settings is extreme overkill - but this is still a decent result for a card of this class.

Against the RTX 3070, the 3060 Ti only manages around 80 per cent of the 4K frame-rate - not great when you're paying around 84 per cent of the 3070's price.

There are still big gains against Pascal cards that were sold at a similar price-point, though the increase up against GTX 1080 Ti isn't quite as pronounced as in other titles.

 

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39 minutes ago, Orangetuner said:

True. But what can Codemasters really do if just one 25+ km stage takes 2-3 months to complete? There are 13 or so locations with 1-2 real life stages in dr 2.0 that they've added over two 1/2 years give or take. Ill assume half of those were scanned after dirt 4 released. Granted maybe Spain and Australia might of had some assets spill over from dirt 4. So maybe we can assume it takes one 1/2 years to complete one 25km stage for 6 locations.

Man. The whole dirt team working on dirt rally should alleviate at least some of the workload but can they really release more than 6 new locations before dr 3.0 releases? let alone just 1 more 25km parent stage per location by early 2022? If they're doing GaS and if I had to pick I would pick releasing locations over extra 25km parent stage and do what you suggest and give an option to chose how long you want the rally to be. but idk

One thing they can do is start working on them now if they haven't already. There are 13 locations in Dirt Rally 2.0 but many of those were carried over from Dirt Rally and refreshed. I see what you're saying but you also have to consider that people usually want more and games launching with less cars, less circuits or less stages/km/miles usually aren't going to be praised for doing so. They especially aren't going to be well received if they are the same stages for the third time around in a rally game. You're not supposed to have the stages memorized in rally like you do in circuit racers (realize you know this, just stating the obvious for emphasis).

I agree that having the entire team being able to focus completely on Dirt Rally should help some. They don't have to release more than 6 brand new locations if they have one 25+ km stage and one other unique stage per location in my opinion. They pretty much already did GAAS which is why I spent roughly $119.97 to get all of the Dirt Rally 2.0 content as soon as it launched. They can release additional locations later on but I would rather have all DLC be brand new stages for the rally content even if that means less of it in total. If I want to drive Dirt Rally 2.0 stages, I'll just play Dirt Rally 2.0 stages. I don't think people will be as receptive this time around for carry-over stages from previous games but that's just the opinion of one person. I always strive to provide suggestions and constructive criticism. I know the Dirt Rally team works extremely hard to give us the best rally game that they can and my intent is only to help. I never said what I was asking wasn't difficult but I think it would make for a spectacular experience as far as tackling longer and unique stages goes.

Edited by FlatOverCrest
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1 hour ago, FlatOverCrest said:

I'm just not a fan of the marketing department saying there are 100+ stages in a rally game when to me it's really just 13 unique small/medium stages chopped up and reversed.

It's always better to look at the number of unique kms in a game than the raw Stage/Track count.

 

DiRT Rally 2.0 has about the following:

  • 150km (Base Game, Rally Only)
  • 315km (GOTY, Rally Only)

 

I don't have time to add up the numbers from other rally games, somebody else can do the research 🙂 

 

 

 

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On 11/28/2020 at 2:59 PM, PJTierney said:

For example, I'm playing a lot of Hotshot Racing at the moment, since it's free on Game Pass. Good game, I'll enjoy it for 20 hours and then move on to something else.

How is it?
I'm thinking of buying it for Switch.
Will never support subscription models, though.
Playing an indie game on Game Pass without buying it and moving on is pretty much a big f you to the developers.

On 11/30/2020 at 2:30 AM, JZStudios said:

In completely unrelated news, back in 2019 I got Grid Autosport free from GameSessions. They were attempting to be a middle man game demo/trial period service for Steam games. Shockingly, this didn't do well and they're shutting it down, but since I got the game through GS and didn't actually get a Steam key... I guess the game is just vanished. Which is cool.

And it's no longer available for purchase through Steam. Which is also cool.

Well, guess I'll just use the ol' Yarharr method.

Remember kids, buy physical.

I can top that.
Bought the complete GRID 2 DLC package (forgot the name..."all access" or something) on xbox 360 a few years back, but can't use it, because the content got removed from the store.
I only downloaded the key for the content, but not the content itself.
So I payed for nothing.
Codemasters are big a holes regarding consumer support. And it will get even worse now with TakeTwo.

5 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Regarding Stages, locations are the single biggest time resource in the game's development, taking up the vast majority of art time, research etc. I don't think having a full rally's unique stages would be viable unless you want a game to take 10 years to make 🙂 

I'm all for a longer "parent Stage" though, which could then be cut up into 5, 6 or 7 "child" Stages compared to the 4 we have now.

I want my Star Citizen of DiRT Rally!

1 hour ago, FlatOverCrest said:

I want super long stages. 

For me the best solution would be:

Copy/Paste all of DR2.0's locations to DR3 and remaster them here and there. Combine the long stages to one big as an option, were it is possible (like New Zealand, Spain, Argentina, Monaco etc.) and put another 6 locations into the game (or an additional big (2 combined longs) for each existing location).
I think that is realistic, if the old locations don't need to be made completely from scratch.

At least this is my idea for the base game + post-launch content.
Expecting all this in the base game is maybe a bit too much.

Edited by UnderclassGDfan
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35 minutes ago, PJTierney said:
1 hour ago, FlatOverCrest said:

I'm just not a fan of the marketing department saying there are 100+ stages in a rally game when to me it's really just 13 unique small/medium stages chopped up and reversed.

It's always better to look at the number of unique kms in a game than the raw Stage/Track count.

 

DiRT Rally 2.0 has about the following:

  • 150km (Base Game, Rally Only)
  • 315km (GOTY, Rally Only)

 

I don't have time to add up the numbers from other rally games, somebody else can do the research 🙂  

Do those km figures include reversed stages or segments taken from longer stages?

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21 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

incoming next person saying but i want super long stages.....probably jzstudios lol.

When have I ever pushed for longer stages? I'm all about quantity and good ol' fashioned arcade fun. If anybody it'd be you pushing for longer stages. The only thing Dirt has going for it is the point to points, being more difficult and different to standard race tracks, but there's not enough.

Like, I'm 100% not interested in AMS2. I can almost guarantee that pretty much everything in that game is also in PC2 I already own. I've already lapped all those tracks countless times and got immensely bored of them, Nurburgring is the only one I still do occasionally. Either way, unless I can get usable throttle control in DR3 I'm not very interested in it. DR2 just gave me disappointment with inputs.

 

3 hours ago, Orangetuner said:

Thank you for the reply. I didn't know that locations took up the most time recourses. That's good to know. And of course I agree. longer parent stages to cut up.

Well they have to travel to the location, get tons of images and sources n such, create new assets specifically for that region, and if it's an accurate location that takes even more time. D4's create-a-track or whatever was a good idea in principle. They could just make some more generic art assets and randomly scatter them around, which saves a lot of time.

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4 minutes ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

I want my Star Citizen of DiRT Rally!

For me the best solution would be:

Copy/Paste all of DR2.0's locations to DR3 and remaster them here and there. Combine the long stages to one big as an option, were it is possible (like New Zealand, Spain, Argentina, Monaco etc.) and put another 6 locations into the game (or an additional big (2 combined longs) for each existing stage).
I think that is realistic, if the old locations don't need to be made completely from scratch.

At least this is my idea for the base game + post-launch content.
Expecting all this in the base game is maybe a bit too much.

Yes. But if bringing them back comes at the cost of eating into time for adding new locations than ill respectfully pass. Even though personally I would like the old stages back. I honestly dont mind playing them again especially if they're even more realistic graphically to their real life versions. The reason why I want them back is because contrary to popular belief I actually dont want to boot up an old game just to play a stage in a racing game. 

I mean. Realistically I wouldn't boot up old forza game just to play an exclusive track. I know it would only take less than 5 mins but nah.

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57 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

Digital Foundry have benchmarked the new Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti here:

I thought Nvidia said they weren't doing Ti anymore?

 

18 minutes ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

I can top that.
Bought the complete GRID 2 DLC package (forgot the name..."all access" or something) on xbox 360 a few years back, but can't use it, because the content got removed from the store.
I only downloaded the key for the content, but not the content itself.
So I payed for nothing.
Codemasters are big a holes regarding consumer support. And it will get even worse now with TakeTwo.

Nice. Nintendo did the same thing with the Wii shop. If you didn't download your digital purchases before it died, you completely lost everything you paid for. Although Xbox Live is still around, not sure about how that works for downloading stuff you bought before it was removed. That's the only positive I can hand to Steam.

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That would mean that each location had an average of 24km. I don't think that is the case unless you are talking about reversing or segmenting the longer stages into smaller ones. I could be wrong and I will try and look into it if we don't get a response. I don't consider a reversed stage or a long stage segmented to be smaller ones to be unique stage km/miles.

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6 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Well they have to travel to the location, get tons of images and sources n such, create new assets specifically for that region, and if it's an accurate location that takes even more time. D4's create-a-track or whatever was a good idea in principle. They could just make some more generic art assets and randomly scatter them around, which saves a lot of time.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did a bit of this already. Not that I'm complaining tho. A bit of procedural generation could be used somewhere too. With finesse of course.

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2 minutes ago, FlatOverCrest said:

That would mean that each location had an average of 24km. I don't think that is the case unless you are talking about reversing or segmenting the longer stages into smaller ones. I could be wrong and I will try and look into it if we don't get a response. I don't consider a reversed stage or a long stage segmented to be smaller ones to be unique stage km/miles.

Yeah. Me neither...

..I love you, Codemasters!

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22 minutes ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

How is it?
I'm thinking of buying it for Switch.
Will never support subscription models, though.
Playing an indie game on Game Pass without buying it and moving on is pretty much a big f you to the developers.

Microsoft pays for every game that appears on Game Pass, so that the player doesn't have to (outside of the subscription).

As for Hotshot Racing, it's fun but given its intentionally arcade-like nature you'll have it figured out very quickly. I was able to "figure out" the way to go fast within an hour and challenge Expert AI right away. I wouldn't have bought this as I'm typically after more long-term experiences that last 50-100 hours, but it is a nice pick up and play experience. Should be good on Switch.

 

27 minutes ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

I want my Star Citizen of DiRT Rally!

The year is 2933. Codemasters have finally secured the rights to the Toyota Celica GT-Four.

 

18 minutes ago, FlatOverCrest said:

Do those km figures include reversed stages or segments taken from longer stages?

I said unique for a reason 😉 

It's the two Parent Stages in a single direction.

 

12 minutes ago, FlatOverCrest said:

Did you have a chat with the handling designer? If so, what did he say? Thank you.

He's still on Annual Leave but when he gets back I'll poke 🙂 

 

13 minutes ago, Orangetuner said:

I mean. Realistically I wouldn't boot up old forza game just to play an exclusive track. I know it would only take less than 5 mins but nah.

I still occasionally visit DiRT Rally to do Pikes Peak but that's the exception rather than the norm.

 

6 minutes ago, FlatOverCrest said:

That would mean that each location had an average of 24km.

I rounded to the nearest whole number after doing all the math. New Zealand is particularly long, which bumps up the average.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Orangetuner said:

Yes. But if bringing them back comes at the cost of eating into time for adding new locations than ill respectfully pass. Even though personally I would like the old stages back. I honestly dont mind playing them again especially if they're even more realistic graphically to their real life versions. The reason why I want them back is because contrary to popular belief I actually dont want to boot up an old game just to play a stage in a racing game. 

I mean. Realistically I wouldn't boot up old forza game just to play an exclusive track. I know it would only take less than 5 mins but nah.

I definitely want them all back.
Especially Scotland, wich is the best rally location I've ever driven in a game.
And I'm around for a while as a gamer.

Would be ok for me paying again for them to have them in the next game.
It's less work for the developers and more content/variety for the DR3. So win/win.

Imagine a club league championship with the option to choose from 19 locations. Awesome.
Nobody can expect 12 new locations for DR3, that's just not realistic with this level of detail.

And they never can go back to static track surfaces, track degradation is the best thing ever introduced and I want that to be evolved. too!
With the combination of better/more aggressive tyre options (more (or any) reasons to choose mediums over softs) that could be epic!

And an evolved clubs feature with more options to make them unique. Wohoo!

31 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Nice. Nintendo did the same thing with the Wii shop. If you didn't download your digital purchases before it died, you completely lost everything you paid for. Although Xbox Live is still around, not sure about how that works for downloading stuff you bought before it was removed. That's the only positive I can hand to Steam.

Nintendo is really disgusting regarding online related things.
I saved all my purchases from the Wii Shop Channel additionally on SD cards as back up, so I'm good with this.

But they already started doing similiar moves on eShop for Wii U.
Pikmin 3 and it's DLC got removed on the day Pikmin 3 Deluxe got announced for Switch!
And Super Mario Maker will lose its upload feature at the end of march 2021.

It's just a matter of time, were they announce to close the eShop on Wii U and 3DS completely.
So nobody is able to buy classic Nintendo games anymore, just subscribe to their Switch Online model.
I could rage the whole day about that.

I HATE subscription models. I wanna buy and play my games whenever I want!
This is the reason I hate My Team in DR2.0. It's just a matter of time you can't play this anymore, too!

X-Box Live is (currently) better than this. You can still re-download all your bought stuff even if it got removed from the store.
In my case with GRID 2 it was just a stu*** system in place, because since I never downloaded the stuff related to the "All Access"-key, it isn't available in my download history, even if it should be available, because I own it.

27 minutes ago, Orangetuner said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they did a bit of this already. Not that I'm complaining tho. A bit of procedural generation could be used somewhere too. With finesse of course.

No, I want hand made stages. Procedural generated stages look always generic.

20 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

Microsoft pays for every game that appears on Game Pass, so that the player doesn't have to (outside of the subscription).

I read that statement a few days ago and understand it.
But it is still bullsh**!
They just do it to push the service and they are the only ones, who can afford this, because they have almost endless money available.
They want to kill the option to actually buy the games, so you just have the option to play the game how they want, how long they want and as much they want. Total control.

This model will kill most small none long term service-games in the future.
There is no reason to produce single player-story driven games, because with this kind of service you need attention for the game for a long time.
Also all games with licenses like racing games will have a short live window, because car licenses will expire after a few years and the games get removed completely, if you can't buy them anymore.

54 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

As for Hotshot Racing, it's fun but given its intentionally arcade-like nature you'll have it figured out very quickly. I was able to "figure out" the way to go fast within an hour and challenge Expert AI right away. I wouldn't have bought this as I'm typically after more long-term experiences that last 50-100 hours, but it is a nice pick up and play experience. Should be good on Switch.

Sounds good. I love Outrun and I'm searching for a similiar experience.

58 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

The year is 2933. Codemasters have finally secured the rights to the Toyota Celica GT-Four.

Unrealistic. The day a classic Toyota joins the DiRT Rally franchise is the day when pigs can fly 😆

1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

He's still on Annual Leave but when he gets back I'll poke 🙂 

They allowed to leave? I expect 16h a day/7 days a week work until DR3 is out! 😃
Where is my lash!? 🤔

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With Volkswagen pulling out of motorsports, does that mean that they will no longer be featured in future Dirt Rally games? That would be very disappointing to not have VW vehicles from Dirt Rally 2.0 in the the next game. Since they are trying to go all electric, they may not want engine based vehicles representing them in future titles. When you think about all of the brands that Volkswagen AG/Volkswagen Group owns, we might not have VW, Porsche, Audi, Seat, and Skoda vehicles featured in future Codemasters titles. Hopefully they will still allow past models to be licensed or that would be terrible.

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3 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Digital Foundry have benchmarked the new Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti here:

 

  •  

Things move too fast these days, I only bought my RTX 2060 in March and it's already starting to seem like it's obsolete. That is one upside for consoles I suppose, the basic specs stay the same for several years. I'll see what comes out next year and if I start to feel like I just can't run anything then I may upgrade. However, you then have to choose carefully to guarantee a little more longevity........

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3 minutes ago, FlatOverCrest said:

With Volkswagen pulling out of motorsports, does that mean that they will no longer be featured in future Dirt Rally games? That would be very disappointing to not have those VW vehicles from Dirt Rally 2.0 in the the next game.

They'll be in DR 5.0 as classics!

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4 hours ago, Orangetuner said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they did a bit of this already. Not that I'm complaining tho. A bit of procedural generation could be used somewhere too. With finesse of course.

I'm still not sure if the locations are real or just inspired. They aren't using lidar or photogrammetry, so I'm not sure what their art pipeline is. Making something look close enough to the general idea is a lot easier than trying to make it exact.

 

4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

I still occasionally visit DiRT Rally to do Pikes Peak but that's the exception rather than the norm.

Fujimi Kaido yo. Forza actually had a lot of really good original tracks they just haven't had this entire generation. Original tracks are more fun, they're not the same locations in exactly every game ever made you've lapped thousands of times.

 

3 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

Nintendo is really disgusting regarding online related things.
I saved all my purchases from the Wii Shop Channel additionally on SD cards as back up, so I'm good with this.

That's why I want physical. You already can't buy Horizon 3 or any of it's DLC, so at this point the only way to play it is piracy. Or maybe game pass.

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4 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

I definitely want them all back.
Especially Scotland, wich is the best rally location I've ever driven in a game.
And I'm around for a while as a gamer.

Yeah. Scotland is by far my favorite. I didnt expect them to put something that difficult in lol. Almost Feels like something straight outta RBR NGP. I love it.

 

4 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

And they never can go back to static track surfaces, track degradation is the best thing ever introduced and I want that to be evolved. too!
With the combination of better/more aggressive tyre options (more (or any) reasons to choose mediums over softs) that could be epic!

Yes. This needs to be evolved so much and so does tire differences and wear. Plus it just looks cool. 

 

4 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

No, I want hand made stages. Procedural generated stages look always generic

Yeah true. But maybe it could still be used somewhere. Like what if there was procedural generation for the leaves that fell from the trees on the track during autumn? Or the extra snow and rain puddles during bad weather?

ooo what if when your drive past plants and leaves they get blown by the aerodynamics coming from your car? It would probably bring our PCs to their knees but I dont care. 

You know what I want to see? I want to see more detail on the roads especially tarmac. Just take a gander to how Germany tarmac actually looks its as if its constantly changing:

A good handful of RBR NGP modded stages actually represent the different sections of tarmac on a stage and it is so cool. 

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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

That's why I want physical. You already can't buy Horizon 3 or any of it's DLC, so at this point the only way to play it is piracy. Or maybe game pass.

Nope, these games also leave game pass.
Licenses expire for the cars, so they can't sell them in any way.
They could make longer agreements, but that cost more I think.

Forza games expire always after 4 years.
Next year end of september FM7, another year same time FH4.

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7 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Like, I'm 100% not interested in AMS2. I can almost guarantee that pretty much everything in that game is also in PC2 I already own. I've already lapped all those tracks countless times and got immensely bored of them, Nurburgring is the only one I still do occasionally. Either way, unless I can get usable throttle control in DR3 I'm not very interested in it. DR2 just gave me disappointment with inputs.

Are you sure? I know it uses the same madness engine but Its nothing like PC2 physics. You could at least check it out just for the physics aspect. Even if a lot of cars are similar to PC2 the physics alone is completely different, dude. It's worth giving it a look. Its definitely not a PC2 clone either with the same tracks if that's what you're worried about. 80% are from the Brazilian racing league. Which are all probably in AMS1. If you played that to the moon and back then I'd understand but if you haven't then I think you might be judging it too quickly lol. 

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Busy day on here today, but just want to +1 with whoever thinks the current stages should be brought back.

There's ~300km of the best rally stages that have been modelled there, and if a game with improved graphics and physics comes along I really hope we get to use them. Heck, the Finalnd stages are amazingly modelled, but I haven't once been able to enjoy them at speed in either game because of DR1's weird floaty effects and DR2's inability to run them without layering smoke from a forest fire over the top.

Yes, some longer stages would be nice, but it's the number of unique KM I'm counting, not the length of each individual stage - I wouldn't complain with some longer ones, but personally I'd love DR3 to 'just' focus on expanding the existing locations with new stages to make those 'events' seem more varied; having Germany only at Baumholder, having Monte only on the Turini, Argentina only at Condor... these stages are 'special' rather than representative of their respective events so it would be great to have more 'normal' ones to intersperse them with.

Just, please, no enforced fog - your stage modellers deserve better!

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