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For what it's worth, it is possible to decouple a physics engine from a visuals engine.

If you look at most of the real-world F1 simulators around the world they use rFactor Pro for visuals but plug in their own physics simulations.

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16 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

For what it's worth, it is possible to decouple a physics engine from a visuals engine.

If you look at most of the real-world F1 simulators around the world they use rFactor Pro for visuals but plug in their own physics simulations.

Which, if I understand correctly, is what ACC does with Unreal?

 

@JZStudios @Jake Cushing Calm down both, you're escalating rhetoric at each other over something purely hypothetical. Whatever they use going forward, if there are big changes from the current engine then no doubt plenty of work will go into its feasibility (Frostbite, Madness, Unreal, whatever) and we'll end up with a better end product.

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39 minutes ago, RodgerDavies said:

@JZStudios @Jake Cushing Calm down both, you're escalating rhetoric 

No u

I believe there's already a moderator here, or have you acquired a new job? 😁

I think you'll find I've been pretty 'calm' thus far 

People want to make ill-judged proclamations and double down on them, someone's going to point it out

 

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Well, I think @RodgerDavies has a value point here. Personally I would like a mod to step in.

There is another way for this kind of discussion, mail, messenger etc. 99% don't bother about the subject indept and 99.99%  don't like the way of bashing on the forum.

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28 minutes ago, Jake Cushing said:

I believe there's already a moderator here

Could always do with a few more 😉 

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12 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

Doing a fine job of that all on your ownsome, soldier! 😃

Let's make this simple.

- What is an example of a driving game with serious, complicated physics, that was attempted on Frostbite and failed due to the engine? 

- Do you have any concrete evidence that vehicle physics like the DR series cannot be imported into Frostbite?

Edit: Moreover, do you realise how unlikely your position is here? You're absolutely adamant that DR3 will be forced to run on Frostbite. Do you really, seriously believe that EA and Codemasters would do this, AND give it physics like Battlefield or NFS?

What the hell are you talking about?

Gee, I dunno, maybe the Need For Speed series, Star Wars, and multiple Battlefield series? Not to mention ME Andromeda and Anthem. Just because something isn't a "serious sim attempt," whatever the hell that means, doesn't mean they don't have physics. And they physics they do have is ******* broken. It's a very simple concept. If it was so damn easy for the engine and to implement then all of these franchises would have vastly more stable physics that don't constantly glitch and freak out. It also wouldn't need an entire studio as a physics support team. I swear to god I could show you the color red and you'd call me a dumb ass claiming it's blue.

Do you have concrete evidence it could? Every instance of physics, any physics, so far in Frostbite has proven to be unreliable, and you're claiming it is. You clearly haven't played these games. I've spent thousands of hours in Battlefield.

Once again you're making **** up and putting it in my mouth. I said it once as a joke, then simply stated that EA was pushing most of it's studios on it. Including racing titles, so quit acting like it's inconceivable. And yes, I do. This is EA. The other studios all had their own engines for their respective titles and EA forced them to switch to Frostbite.

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6 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

People want to make ill-judged proclamations and double down on them, someone's going to point it out

I've been making an attempt, but as usual people don't want to look at the blindingly obvious facts in front of them.

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@JZStudios @Jake Cushing

The debate about game engines and such is interesting, but please try to keep it to that and not attack each others' opinionated delivery methods.

I don't want to see this get out of hand, so if you feel you need to reel it back in, think before you post 🙂 

 

Try not to be this guy 🙂 

xkcd: Duty Calls

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18 hours ago, JZStudios said:

What the hell are you talking about?

There's that calm debate everyone's so keen to read.

18 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Gee, I dunno, maybe the Need For Speed series, Star Wars, and multiple Battlefield series?

These are examples of 'serious driving games with complicated physics'? 😄

 

18 hours ago, JZStudios said:

I've spent thousands of hours in Battlefield.

You must be an expert on this issue!

Did you miss this comment:

On 7/13/2021 at 5:49 PM, PJTierney said:

For what it's worth, it is possible to decouple a physics engine from a visuals engine.

If you look at most of the real-world F1 simulators around the world they use rFactor Pro for visuals but plug in their own physics simulations.

I'll now ask you to turn your swearing and yelling towards the good Mr Tierney.

There is a fact here that should just be faced: There is close to zero chance that DR3 (or whatever the next game is) will have poor physics, because of an engine forced upon Codies by EA. 

Just accept that and move on 😉

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"Rally car drives good on the road"* is what the rally team is best at, so whether future games use the same engine, a different one or are powered by the steam coming from this forum thread you shouldn't need to worry about that.

 

In other news, next NASCAR game will use rFactor physics and Unreal Engine: https://www.racedepartment.com/news/motorsport-games-releases-more-interesting-details-on-nascar-21.100/

 

 

 

*yeah yeah, tarmac, we know 😉 

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Good question. I don't have an answer though. Would certainly be useful for topographical reference.

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On 7/13/2021 at 11:18 AM, PJTierney said:

@JZStudios @Jake Cushing

The debate about game engines and such is interesting, but please try to keep it to that and not attack each others' opinionated delivery methods.

I don't want to see this get out of hand, so if you feel you need to reel it back in, think before you post 🙂 

 

Try not to be this guy 🙂 

xkcd: Duty Calls

I'm always that guy. If people weren't wrong there wouldn't be an argument. In this instance it's not a subjective thing. It's a fact that EA has been pushing Frostbite on it's studios even though they don't want. It's also a fact that there's been 3 racing titles on the engine with bad physics, who's developer was then shuttered after the failure of the franchise, which apparently they didn't bother to make a serious attempt at a racing game. It's also a fact that Criterion has been pulled from a dev studio on it's untitled Beyond Cars game years ago to be a support studio for physics issues in Frostbite. And Dice LA.

I just don't understand how I'm the crazy guy for saying that. Frostbite's physics don't need to be "simulator" since any and all physics ARE a simulation, they just need to be consistent and stable. Frostbite's physics are only consistent in it's instability. GTA, Halo, Forza Horizon, Driver, Burnout, etc. don't have "simulation" physics nor are they a "serious attempt," yet the physics in all of those is consistent and stable, unlike Frostbite.

7 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

These are examples of 'serious driving games with complicated physics'?

Look above. If it can't handle basics why would you think it could handle something more intensive? That's seriously flawed logic. I also don't understand how you continue to think a racing game franchise isn't a "serious driving game with complicated physics." If you agree that NONE of those titles handle physics well at all, considering most only require basic simulations, why would you think it can handle more complicated systems? Again, if it's outputting 5 when it should be 4 on a basic addition problem, why would you assume it's capable of calculus?

Play any Frostbite game and tell me even the basics of physics, which they all have, is consistent or stable.

Decoupling the physics engine isn't going to happen. That's a more complicated process than just turning one off and flipping another on. And again that defeats the point of homologating the studios with the same engine so they can work together. No offense to PJ, but he's not a programmer, he's a community manager talking unofficially. You're acting like he's talking about something confirmed when he simply stated that someone else does something different.

What logically makes you think EA won't force Frostbite on CM or SMS like it did with all of it's other studios? Because they let one game be made on UE4? Or just because they already have an engine, like all the other dev studios that had Frostbite forced on them? EA is the big leagues, and the big leagues want that graphical fidelity. People complain about Dirt's aging graphics engine. At absolute best they would use the SMS engine, which people also criticize. I don't know what you think the likely end result will be.

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15 minutes ago, Jake Cushing said:

Now @PJTierney *What* do you have against Disney in general, and Frozen in particular?

@JZStudios <Let it go.Frozen.meme>

Instead of posting a low effort image in response to a reasonably well-written argument, it would have been better if you responded to his points specifically.

If there's nothing to add on top of what you discussed with him previously, then perhaps you should follow your own advice.

 

 

(Sorry to be blunt about this, but you two guys debate quite a bit and I see similar trends every time in how it ends)

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