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Message added by PJTierney,

Did you know that the long-time members of this thread have had a DiRTy Gossip Discord server for a while?

You do now 😉 

 

 

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But it's never ended in Disney before! 

"reasonably well written argument" 😄

You'll have to at least acknowledge that JZ is going in complete circles and not making any logical points.

Anyway I'll pipe down now. Let's get back to discussing the next game in the franchise that we've been given so much info on!

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6 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Instead of posting a low effort image in response to a reasonably well-written argument, it would have been better if you responded to his points specifically.

If there's nothing to add on top of what you discussed with him previously, then perhaps you should follow your own advice.

 

 

(Sorry to be blunt about this, but you two guys debate quite a bit and I see similar trends every time in how it ends)

People have a hard time changing their viewpoint. If EA (or CM) come out and say they're using their own engine, then fine, I'm wrong. As it stands there's no real reasoning for believing it to be so. EA has been pushing Frostbite heavily because it's a great graphical render and now has an abundant amount of support for photogrammetry. Even Dirt 5, which I thought looked pretty good, got blasted almost universally for "bad graphics." I just don't see EA being okay with that, nor giving the team the time and money to seriously overhaul the engine when they already have one that's "better."

The Madness engine from SMS looks okay, but I'm unsure if it's CPU or GPU limited, relatively speaking. I don't think their games ran that well on console, though much better than the significantly worse AC. People cried about PC3 looking worse than PC2, which when I look at the comparisons I don't quite understand because the cars and tracks are identical. And after watching some Digital Foundry videos... yep. PC3 struggles to run at 60.

Unless EA pools CM, SMS, the Evo guys, and Criterion together to make a new racing game engine, keeping in mind that at the very least Criterion is now working on NFS and CM is still working on F1 and Dirt or WRC, it seems very unlikely. If the studios are already working on a game in an engine, they may release in that engine, but if Matt McMuscles' Wha Happun? has anything to say about it, EA isn't afraid of switching engines mid production with the same deadline.

Even if their next games are released in their own engines, the next one after that might be something else pushed on them by EA.

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6 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

You'll have to at least acknowledge that JZ is going in complete circles and not making any logical points.

Oh, okay. I wasn't aware stating facts was making illogical circles. I see the error in my logic now, I should just make things up, then they'll be true and logical.

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16 hours ago, JZStudios said:

The Madness engine from SMS looks okay, but I'm unsure if it's CPU or GPU limited, relatively speaking. I don't think their games ran that well on console, though much better than the significantly worse AC.

I'm no expert, but considering my experience with Project CARS 3 on Xbox (both previous and current gen) I think CPU is the real bottleneck on the console side at least. Much smoother framerates on Series X.

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9 hours ago, PJTierney said:

I'm no expert, but considering my experience with Project CARS 3 on Xbox (both previous and current gen) I think CPU is the real bottleneck on the console side at least. Much smoother framerates on Series X.

Well from what I can tell the Frostbite engine looks better with photogrammetry and has a more steady framerate. The issue is these are self funded engines in a "AA" style market. Things like Gran Turismo and Forza have much more advanced graphical engines after years of continuous iteration, a near limitless supply of cash, and a large team.

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On 7/11/2021 at 1:23 AM, gk9147 said:

Electric rally car

 

 

This is a nightmare. I'm all for road vehicles going electric and reducing fumes and smog.

But can you imagine listening to THAT when playing a motorsports video game? I'd rather listen to a man in a suit of armour drag his fingers down a blackboard.

This is another reason we need physical copies of games. The day the bulk of vehicles in a Dirt Rally (or WRC) game sound like THAT, is the day I stop buying the latest iteration. 

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1 hour ago, Jake Cushing said:

This is a nightmare. I'm all for road vehicles going electric and reducing fumes and smog.

But can you imagine listening to THAT when playing a motorsports video game? I'd rather listen to a man in a suit of armour drag his fingers down a blackboard.

This is another reason we need physical copies of games. The day the bulk of vehicles in a Dirt Rally (or WRC) game sound like THAT, is the day I stop buying the latest iteration. 

Clearly someone isn't a fan of Re-Volt.

 

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5 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

This is a nightmare. I'm all for road vehicles going electric and reducing fumes and smog.

But can you imagine listening to THAT when playing a motorsports video game? I'd rather listen to a man in a suit of armour drag his fingers down a blackboard.

This is another reason we need physical copies of games. The day the bulk of vehicles in a Dirt Rally (or WRC) game sound like THAT, is the day I stop buying the latest iteration. 

Totally agree, as far as rallying goes. Electric cars are already very interesting and they'll satisfy the needs of more and more people as technology progresses. 

Electric-powered motorsports can actually be interesting and entertaining, and Formula E already is (despite its many flaws, mostly not related to being electric). BUT, rally isn't held on a circuit and doesn't involve phisically racing against other cars. 

The entertainment in rallying is all about the experience of a single car flying by, and therefore it has to be as captivating as possible in all sensorial areas. The spectator has to be involved by the speed, the awesome driving, the scenery AND the noise. In such a simple experience, noise is a fundamental part and a rally car simply going whhhHEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee isn't exactly visceral, is it? 

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In completely unrelated news, I'm watching my buddy's house/dogs while he's on vacation, and since my wheel is old enough I've been playing Forza 4 and have confirmed my long time theory that the tires are made of some hybrid between 70's ecogreen tires and wood blocks. Just did a section of the Nurburgring, part 3 of 4 starting just before the 2 tight turns, then leading up the hill to the the long sweeping right before the carousel with an M3 e90. Never in any other game, and I've played lots, have I understeered, much less ran into the outside wall, in any car. Upgrading the tires doesn't seem to actually do as much as they'd lead you to believe.

I think the default setups for pretty much everything is also completely wrong, just doing a proper suspension setup helps drop lap times by 1.5-2 seconds while making the car massively more stable to drive, not even counting the very vague FFB that makes it near impossible to be precise with positioning. The cars on turns all have this weird buildup of assumingly weight transfer, then it breaks and lightens up, then loads up again ad nauseum. It's really weird.

Also, Catalunya can FFFFuuudge right the hell off. Stupid track.

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2 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

i find assetto corsa competionzione a understeer champion. prefer automoblista 2 tbh for tarmac.

I haven't tried ACC, but Forza is probably on another planet entirely. There's a bunch of rear wheel drive A class cars that are borderline undriveable because the front tires lose traction with any amount of steering input, and the rear tires just incessantly spin on corners. Any time a gentle curve comes along you need to brake massively, because even at low speeds you'll understeer off the track.

I tried to do a "quick" comparison between stock tires and race tires at Laguna Seca, but it turned into a much longer testing session than I planned for. The FFB is so vague I can't tell where the grip limit is, so I spent 10 laps trying to figure out the car and getting faster by a pretty large margin every lap, and the line was different every time. Would probably be better to just not use FFB at all I got a faster lap time with race tires, but going back to the stock tires I couldn't follow a decent line and I can't tell if that's because of the tires or because I just couldn't follow the same line like I can in every other game.

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I will be very surprised and disappointed if DR3 is not announced tomorrow. I think we'll get a new set of countries rather than new stages of existing countries as they try to build up their coverage of WRC rallies before they pick up the franchise. CM have always been good in giving us a good variety of different rallies and having Kenya, Japan and Portugal would be great for me. Think dynamic weather, photo mode and much improved graphics will be a given. What do you guys expect?

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I think i'd be (pleasantly) surprised if they *did* announce the next rally game tomorrow.

 

Remember until they get the license (they do not have it yet) they're not really able to do stages modelled after current WRC stages, that was a big grey area last i heard.

 

As for what's hopefully coming, i'd say photo mode is going to be there, graphics will always improve, just to what degree and dynamic weather with physics changes will be high on the list as well.

Maybe we'll see stage length/creation improvements, they've always said how long it takes to make stages, they *have* to have been working on something there!  Assuming it's possible that is.

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1 hour ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

Remember until they get the license (they do not have it yet) they're not really able to do stages modelled after current WRC stages, that was a big grey area last i heard.

All locations in DR2.0 (except New England) are nearly 1:1 recreations of iconic WRC stages. Wales is Hafren/Sweet Lamb, New Zealand is Whaanga Coast, Germany is Panzerplatte, etc. Not even Kylotonn that owns the license model the stages so accurately.

So that doesn't seem to be a problem as long as Codies don't use the real stage names.

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