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Did you know that the long-time members of this thread have had a DiRTy Gossip Discord server for a while?

You do now 😉 

 

 

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20 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Because it's already in a higher fidelity standard with a PBR pipeline and materials. You ignored my entire comment.

Well, I missed the part where you had a quote from CM to that effect. 😉 It's likely, granted. At any rate, a difficult situation:

DLC from last game presented as base game rallies: Media and forums WHINGE

Base game rallies from last game presented as DLC: Media and forums WHINGE

Base game rallies from last game presented as base game rallies: Media and forums WHINGE

DLC from last game ... you get the picture

Solution to any of these: Some New Stages!!

I'd personally really miss driving Scotland again in an updated engine and higher-res road surfaces.

 

Edited by Jake Cushing
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Lest we forget, most of the community whined about DR2 being 'broken' on launch. Gamers seem to get some kind of satisfaction from trashing a new release, even more so if they feel a loyalty to a rival title. WRC 9 was a brilliant game. Flawed, yes, but brilliant. I've probably said it before, but modern WRC cars on 20km+ long tarmac stages in WRC 9 is probably my favourite sim driving experience to date, ever. WRC 10 has made some improvements, and once the bugs are ironed out it's going to be great. I absolutely love DR2 and it will get solid play time from me until the next one comes out, but I don't let it stop me enjoying another similar title on it's own merits. Yeah the sounds aren't that great, they're still optimising the frame rates and the graphics aren't the greatest. But the driving is fantastic, the stage design is the best out there, there's proper tyre management, full-length WRC events, loads of free DLC coming and it seems that proper online championships are coming too.

I'm looking forward to Codemasters' future with the WRC licence, but I really hope that KT don't stop making rallying games.

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1 hour ago, merseyxshore said:

 Gamers seem to get some kind of satisfaction from trashing a new release, even more so if they feel a loyalty to a rival title.

It's complicated. The main problems are echo chambers, extreme tribalism and group think. Even if someone actually can't confirm what the group is saying about their experience with a certain title they feel like they have to be loyal to the group and repeat the same, even if it's nonsense. 

There's one guy on the ACC forums who trashes d3t on a regular basis because apparently someone somewhere pointed out that in 1868 they messed up a port to consoles and that means they're incapable and should be tarred and feathered in eternity. Then Stefano chimed in, the actual founder and former lead programmer at Kunos, saying that they actually did a great job considering how weak the weakest link is, the OG Xbox. He has no interest in defending anything, he left and now enjoys virtual sailing into the sunset. But the guy doesn't care, d3t are §$%& and incapable because someone said so somewhere and everyone knows that. It's a shame because with that kind of stubbornness there's no way new information - in that case from actual game devs, who have the expertise - can reach them.

I agree, the stages in WRC are great, and if we could get longer stages in DiRT Rally, that'd be cool, but I think the 10-16km we have are ok, I just would like to have at least one more long stage. Sure, being able to drive the whole Col de Turini would be fantastic, hopefully Codies can find a way to increase stage lengths. 

Edited by ricxxV2
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It's okay to have multiple good rally game series. Right now there's 3: DiRT, WRC and art of rally.

Something for everyone 🙂 

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4 hours ago, ricxxV2 said:

If you choose to play DR instead of the new game for whatever reasons, you're just depriving yourself from having a better experience by driving on better modeled stages and locations with overall superior quality, that's it. Have fun and good luck in Sweden, where the snow banks were made of super sticky compact snow with the property of suddenly absorbing all of the kinetic energy and stopping you in an instant. So much fun. Enjoy the surface textures in Finland that are so smooth, they make you feel like driving on a carpet. 

And the reason why Spa is in almost every circuit racing game is the epic racing history it has and still makes, just like Monza, Silverstone, Daytona, Nürburgring or Le Mans. 

The point > .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your head > O

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3 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

Well, I missed the part where you had a quote from CM to that effect. 😉 It's likely, granted. At any rate, a difficult situation:

DLC from last game presented as base game rallies: Media and forums WHINGE

Base game rallies from last game presented as DLC: Media and forums WHINGE

Base game rallies from last game presented as base game rallies: Media and forums WHINGE

DLC from last game ... you get the picture

Solution to any of these: Some New Stages!!

I'd personally really miss not driving Scotland again in an updated engine and higher-res road surfaces.

No one has ever complained about returning content in addition to new content in a racing game. PC1 had ~30 locations including karting tracks no one used because the karts were awful. And some DLC tracks. PC2 had 61 as base game tracks, including the DLC and base game tracks from PC1.

DLC tracks from PC1 were base game tracks in PC2. No one WHINGEd.

DR is the only racing game I know of where they sold the same tracks again as DLC. It's the only game I know of where anyone did this really. It's not like they had licensing issues either like FM's Porsche packs before the EA deal ended. Or even PC's inability to actually license certain tracks due to exclusivity deals. I think Sakitto is missing a chicane, thus counts as a different track they could license. I can't understand why you guys think it's so wrong to criticize this.

Base game tracks in PC1 were also in PC2, some even got laser scanned in the newer title. No one WHINGEd.

DLC from last game.... what? I explicitly don't get the picture.

I never said to not make new stages. I explicitly said to bring the old stages over while making new stages, y'know, like every other racing game.

...which is why it should be base game content in a theoretical DR3..?

 

3 hours ago, merseyxshore said:

Lest we forget, most of the community whined about DR2 being 'broken' on launch.

Not criticizing a broken product is a stupid thing to do. If I didn't have issues with DR2 being... well broken, I would still have it installed. Probably.

Games used to put out and that was it, it was either good and functional, or buggy and broken and they got no sales, which made them more likely to ensure it was a functional product. Now things like FO76 and CP77 exist with 50+gb patches.

 

2 hours ago, ricxxV2 said:

There's one guy on the ACC forums who trashes d3t on a regular basis because apparently someone somewhere pointed out that in 1868 they messed up a port to consoles and that means they're incapable and should be tarred and feathered in eternity. Then Stefano chimed in, the actual founder and former lead programmer at Kunos, saying that they actually did a great job considering how weak the weakest link is, the OG Xbox. He has no interest in defending anything, he left and now enjoys virtual sailing into the sunset.

It's not like Stefano's work was anywhere near remotely decent, let's be honest. And he was always a jackass and called everyone who said anything idiots and banned them from his forum. They also removed the mod section of the forum because all the prominent modders were talking mad **** about how incapable they were and they had to fix everything, which is proven with the content manager and CSP patches doing things they said would never be possible. And his own console port wasn't just bad, it was ******* awful.

I mean, programming is hard, but he was a huge **** about it and acted like he was the greatest **** the world had ever seen and he just wasn't.

What is d3t?

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Just because you're butthurt that he told you to read a freaking book and then banned you from the forums he has no clue about programming? He was involved in the development of ACC and I think they did a pretty good job overall. 

Also, DR2.0 was not broken and it wasn't unplayable. It was a bit buggy and they fixed it. Again, no reason for not playing it. You just deprived yourself of having tons of fun. Your descriptions and characterizations are mostly wrong and inaccurate. 

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Wow! This escalated slightly more than I expected... 😅

When it comes to different rally titles. I think it's perfectly fine to like multiple ones.
I know DR2.0 has its flaws and isn't holy in any way, shape or form.
I've criticised the aspects where it has faltered.

WRC10 has a lot of flaws as well but if you dig deep, there is a solid rally game in there.
It's just unfortunate that there's such a huge layer of things that aren't optimised very well or lack a certain level of quality people have come to expect.
I'm having fun if the graphics don't act up too much and I drive the cars I like on the stages I like.
Yesterday I went into competitive mode, trying to collect as many world records as I could in two hours.
I eventually managed to end on top on half of the Croatia stages for the WRC2/3 category.
I'll be beaten fairly quickly I presume but still, it's fun.

@PJTierney I'm back with another question for you.
Is there a reason as to why there's no third eSports season of the DiRT Rally World Series?
I haven't heard anything about it and was wondering if there's a particular reason for that.  

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24 minutes ago, SRD_SimVansevenant said:

@PJTierney I'm back with another question for you.
Is there a reason as to why there's no third eSports season of the DiRT Rally World Series?

The agreement with Motorsport Games ended at the end of Season 2.

They've got a lot going on right now, and obviously on the Codies side we've had all the EA things to think about, so presumably not much time/resource available to do a proper "season 3".

That and dev work on the game is done. If there was a Season 3 there'd be no free car for example as all the cars we had planned to put in the game are in there already.

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9 hours ago, JZStudios said:

No one has ever complained about returning content in addition to new content in a racing game. 

DLC tracks from PC1 were base game tracks in PC2. No one WHINGEd.

You are talking about circuit racers, and comparing apples with oranges. 

Part of the thrill of rally is not knowing every turn like the back of your hand - exactly the opposite of circuit racers. Why do you suppose Paul Coleman pushed so hard for Dirt 4 to have procedural stages, and nearly derailed the whole series and studio in the process? 

It must make it hard for rally as a game series to manufacture, and I suspect it's partly why we didn't see anything between RBR and Dirt Rally. 

Whinge the public most certainly will, but some new stages in amongst the old would I believe smooth it all over. 

Driving Sweden with the exact same stages yet again would not go down well, either as base or DLC. 

My guess (my hope) is Scotland will be a base rally, as it was the only fresh DLC iirc. 

I also like @merseyxshore's suggestion of entire areas being built which allow for many permutations of stages and rallies within. 

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12 hours ago, PJTierney said:

The agreement with Motorsport Games ended at the end of Season 2.

They've got a lot going on right now, and obviously on the Codies side we've had all the EA things to think about, so presumably not much time/resource available to do a proper "season 3".

That and dev work on the game is done. If there was a Season 3 there'd be no free car for example as all the cars we had planned to put in the game are in there already.

That does make sense. Thanks for that.

Quick follow-up though... Why did you write the word 'done' in cursive?
Is that your new way of dropping hints or something? I've noticed it in a few posts here and there... 

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Often intrigues me when people complain that a game is 'poorly optimised'. More often than not, when I've played games where people have made this claim, they haven't optimised the settings to suit the specification of their PC. The developer doesn't know what specification your machine is! You just have to do a bit of research. I look on YouTube to see if there are any videos that show optimised graphics settings. A case in point being this one for Dirt Rally 2.0. I got the game running really smoothly after applying these.
 

 

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1 hour ago, SRD_SimVansevenant said:

Quick follow-up though... Why did you write the word 'done' in cursive?
Is that your new way of dropping hints or something? I've noticed it in a few posts here and there... 

It's just emphasis (unless I italicise a brand name, as that's just a habit from working on press releases for a decade).

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1 minute ago, PJTierney said:

It's just emphasis (unless I italicise a brand name, as that's just a habit from working on press releases for a decade).

@PJTierney, I just checked out my hunch when it comes to the posts where you seem to italicise certain words.
The community managers on this forum have always been a tad bit crafty or sneaky at times regarding hints.
I went back 30 pages and wrote down all of them underneath one another just to see if anything makes sense.

Apart from a few normal words, 90% of them are titles from games.
Tried out different things but I didn't manage to pick up on anything.

My investigative journalism skills aren't all that well-developed yet.
And now that you have confirmed there's nothing there, I'll quit wasting my time. 🤣
 

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22 hours ago, ricxxV2 said:

Just because you're butthurt that he told you to read a freaking book and then banned you from the forums he has no clue about programming? He was involved in the development of ACC and I think they did a pretty good job overall. 

Also, DR2.0 was not broken and it wasn't unplayable. It was a bit buggy and they fixed it. Again, no reason for not playing it. You just deprived yourself of having tons of fun. Your descriptions and characterizations are mostly wrong and inaccurate. 

No, the fact the acted like he was the hottest **** and the community had to fix his ******* problems means he's **** at programming. The community members that fixed his **** because he was incompetent he called idiots, including industry professionals. I never mentioned reading a freaking book, so you obviously know about these stories and pulled on it. The entirety of AC was a masterclass in incompetence and the console port was once again, beyond awful. There's no defending that, it's an objective fact.

DR2 does have broken aspects, and no it wasn't ever fixed. I don't understand what exactly your problem is. The throttle response is completely ****** and the FFB is still poor, worse than the previous games, and far worse than the beta I was a part of. I don't understand your absolute need to defend things you have zero stake in.

14 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

You are talking about circuit racers, and comparing apples with oranges. 

Part of the thrill of rally is not knowing every turn like the back of your hand - exactly the opposite of circuit racers. Why do you suppose Paul Coleman pushed so hard for Dirt 4 to have procedural stages, and nearly derailed the whole series and studio in the process? 

It must make it hard for rally as a game series to manufacture, and I suspect it's partly why we didn't see anything between RBR and Dirt Rally. 

Whinge the public most certainly will, but some new stages in amongst the old would I believe smooth it all over. 

Driving Sweden with the exact same stages yet again would not go down well, either as base or DLC. 

My guess (my hope) is Scotland will be a base rally, as it was the only fresh DLC iirc. 

I also like @merseyxshore's suggestion of entire areas being built which allow for many permutations of stages and rallies within. 

It's not that off a comparison. It's 2 racing games that both have tracks that are often revisited for multiple disciplines.

Then the game is going to continually have limited tracks. How is it the WRC runs the same courses over and over again and that's fine, but it's inexcusable for DR?

D4's system is fine if they can make it work, but people hated it. We're going off the assumption that system isn't going to be implemented as it hasn't been mentioned at all previously.

Yeah... except for CMR and the entire Dirt franchise. And all the other rally games.

So you're disagreeing with me, and then agreeing with me, and then disagreeing with me again? If the team can only make 6 new locations per game, based on counts for DR1 and 2, then your suggestion for DR3 is instead of porting all 13 tracks over plus 6 new ones for a total of 19, you want them to make 6 new ones and port over 1 DLC track for a total of 7? And this makes sense to you?

I... sure. Not happening with the Ego Engine if the current tracks are already pushing it.

 

8 hours ago, Rogerbee said:

Often intrigues me when people complain that a game is 'poorly optimised'. More often than not, when I've played games where people have made this claim, they haven't optimised the settings to suit the specification of their PC. The developer doesn't know what specification your machine is! You just have to do a bit of research. I look on YouTube to see if there are any videos that show optimised graphics settings. A case in point being this one for Dirt Rally 2.0. I got the game running really smoothly after applying these.

No one was talking about this. I said the game was broken, not poorly optimized. And I'm sick of this argument that just because a game has graphics settings means it's well optimized. Saints Row 2 and GTA4 on PC have graphics settings, and no one calls those well optimized.

What I did say was the AC console port was awful, which was poorly optimized and ran horribly.

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18 hours ago, JZStudios said:

 

 I don't understand your absolute need to defend things you have zero stake in.

 

I can assure you that it only looks like I'm defending DR 2.0. I'm basically just criticising the criticism, which is mostly superficial, inaccurate, completely exaggerated or just outright lies. It'd be much better for everyone if the way how we communicate and the culture around it would be based more on respect, fairness and maybe also facts. And no, opinion is not fact, and opinion is not objective. 

If you have a good and fair point, perfect. Let's discuss it, PJ will pass it on to the dev team and that contributes to improving the game. In such an environment the chance that some of the devs would be willing to come here and have an actual 'conversation' with us would be much much higher. Currently people just shout a lot of nonsense without actually knowing how game development works and what's going on behind the scenes. 

Now, first you said it was broken, now it has broken aspects, I don't think I've ever noticed an issue with throttle response, and FFB is a matter of taste. The previous game didn't even simulate the most important force, there was no SAT in DR. Not sure why you think it was better. 

The actual issues got fixed, like the 'lightsabre rain', audio suddenly disappearing mid-stage etc. It was never broken or unplayable. 

Edited by ricxxV2
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15 hours ago, JZStudios said:

you're disagreeing with me, and then agreeing with me, and then disagreeing with me again? If the team can only make 6 new locations per game, based on counts for DR1 and 2, then your suggestion for DR3 is instead of porting all 13 tracks over plus 6 new ones for a total of 19, you want them to make 6 new ones and port over 1 DLC track for a total of 7? And this makes sense to you?

Putting words in my mouth there, champ. 

What I'm saying is there will be a bunch of new rallies, and a bunch of repeats. We all know this. The repeats could do with some new stages. That would minimise the (inevitable) moaning about them.

15 hours ago, JZStudios said:

I... sure. Not happening with the Ego Engine if the current tracks are already pushing it.

Sorry, modernist poetry appreciation is not my forte.

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Guys, stop bickering please.

 

I'm fully onboard with bringing over the existing stages. Two reasons;

1. In many cases they're iconic stages, it would be like launching a sequel to a racing game without the predecessor's most iconic tracks (looks at Project CARS 3)

2. We haven't had opportunity to enjoy all of these stages on the latest engine - I really want to enjoy the Finland stages and Scotland stages without DR2's enforced fog and the Spanish stages with the (hopefully) improved tarmac physics. What a shame it would be if your favourite stage(s) weren't available in the latest version

3. DR2 has ~300km of the most in-depth, high-fidelity rally stages a game has ever had. Throwing those away for 150-200km of new stages, rather than upping the number to 400-500 over the lifetime of the next cycle would be so disappointing and incredibly lacking in cost-efficiency - I want those Belgian stages to be usable and expand-upon-able for titles to come

4. I learned to count from the distances in Phil's pacenotes...

 

 

 

I don't think Codemasters can 'win', but a base game with some updated locations and some new ones, and a DLC cycle that had fewer releases but more 'new' content, this would seem the most logical balance (personally, I'd love to see all existing locations in the base and new ones as DLC, but I know that would go down like a lead balloon).

Edited by RodgerDavies
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39 minutes ago, RodgerDavies said:

Guys, stop bickering please.

This. Definitely this. 

39 minutes ago, RodgerDavies said:

Two reasons;

1. 

2. 

3. 

4. 

😁
 

I agree though. I'd like to see the "old" content for exactly the reasons stated. It was great to play the DR1 stages with the improved handling in DR2 and if the next DR title is a further evolution then I'm sure those stages will feel even more refined (especially if the tarmac handling gets an overhaul). 

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There's no bickering. I have the impression that people often think disagreement or being straightforward is not polite or unfriendly or something. If you want to improve things you have to tackle issues. If someone says that Codies lied to us when they released Finland, that's not true. if someone says Codies are lazy and let people pay for the same old content, that's not true. People read this stuff and it spreads like a wild fire. I think that is a problem and that's why I think it is important to get the facts straight. 

Just another example: Currently 'interesting' nonsense is spreading. It appears that ACC no longer is a simulation game because an AC mobile game was launched. A mobile game has nothing to do with other platforms, it makes absolutely no sense but people seem to think that's a good argument to make. Is this a good thing and should we just shut up about toxic nonsense in general? I don't think so.  

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