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Did you know that the long-time members of this thread have had a DiRTy Gossip Discord server for a while?

You do now 😉 

 

 

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4 hours ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

JZ, you've got to understand that whilst we're not saying you're wrong, you're also not posting any proof, you just keep 'trumping' it and saying, everyone knows.

 

“Whenever you’re trying to do something that fits the engine—vehicles, for example—Frostbite handles that extremely well,” the developer said. “But when you’re building something that the engine is not made for, this is where it becomes difficult.”

That's from the first quote, i'm not quite sure how else you could interpret that.

 

As ricxx said, there is quite the difference between a game not being very good and/or full of bugs, and then somehow equating that to it's the engines fault.  Don't make that kind of jump, you're falling flat trying it.

Excuse me for not wanting to dig through a decades worth of games and developers interviews to share with you. Similarly I don't have them just tucked away in a coat pocket to whip out at a moment's notice. I linked the reddit post with a few interviews with devs saying the engine was a problem and all you said in response was "That's old." And yet those issues still persist. You're more than welcome to do your own research, it's what I usually do.

What you keep missing is rest of that quote where it's an analogy. He says Frostbite is like a F1 car, it does specific things very well, and nothing else. He then equates UE4 to something like an SUV which is far more capable of many more things.

13 games over a decade with the same issues is pretty indicative of a trend. It's not really a jump, hell, it's barely a hop.

So let me flip the table and say "Prove me wrong." It's apparently obviously not an issue, it should be easy.

 

 

In completely unrelated terms, FM7's AI cheats Going through the... "campaign" there's a MB racing truck championship with one particular race at Road America. The AI is posting lap times easily in the 1:15 range, and only 8 out of the top 10 global leaderboards are in 1:15, and I don't even know how they managed that. Did what I could with gear ratios and only managed a 1:16.6. Then I tried to download other tunes thinking they'd be better and deleted it, could only get 1:17's after trying to set it up again.

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On 9/11/2021 at 8:37 AM, SRD_SimVansevenant said:

@PJTierney the Greek stages in DR2.0, might they be sections of the Gravia stage they are running today in the WRC Acropolis Rally? I'm watching WRC+ and I recognise quite a few sections on their onboards. 

 

I guess they had to rename the real stage so as not to infringe on Codemasters' copyright 😛

 

(Although actually, if I remember correctly the DR Greek stage names make no sense in Greek)

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I think the Frostbite discussion's gone on long enough and is starting to loop back on itself, so let's leave it here.

 

 

@JZStudios If you examine telemetry Forza Motorsport 7's AI cheats a lot. Essentially, the way that it gets faster at higher difficulties is to have way more horsepower than you're allowed in an event or can even put on the car.

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On 9/12/2021 at 4:10 PM, JZStudios said:

And I've only just pulled my wheel out for the first time months after having my monitors sitting on blocks so they're actually at eye level.

You would have had an easy win. Not only am I woeful, but I use a controller and haven't touched the game for 10 months.

Never mind, if you have a change of heart, you may call on J. Cushing Esq on these boards at any point to resolve this matter in the timeless, civilised manner. 

 

On 9/12/2021 at 4:10 PM, JZStudios said:

All I'm saying is to be concise.

 

R.jpg

Edited by Jake Cushing
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Last post about this topic: The thing is, those devs might be right with all they say about Frostbite, it might've contributed a tiny bit to the failure of those studios, but I think saying or suggesting it was the main or maybe even the only cause is a stretch and an oversimplification. Businesses are complicated and there might be many variables that are simply unknown to us. EA could have shuttered down half of those studios because shareholders aren't the most patient people in the world. We don't know. The people who make the decisions in their ivory towers might not give a f...flying flamingo what [insert title here] fans care about, they might want things to go where the money is and not where some programmer's passion would lead. If a studio doesn't have the best future prospects, it might get shuttered down, regardless of what engine they used.

Reality is complicated and it doesn't care whether we simplify or understand it or not. 

Edited by ricxxV2
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10 hours ago, PJTierney said:

I think the Frostbite discussion's gone on long enough and is starting to loop back on itself, so let's leave it here.

 

@JZStudios If you examine telemetry Forza Motorsport 7's AI cheats a lot. Essentially, the way that it gets faster at higher difficulties is to have way more horsepower than you're allowed in an event or can even put on the car.

I've already said as much.

 

Yeah, I was pretty much hitting theoretical max speed and I couldn't upgrade anything but they were still walking away from me on the straights up until the corners when I blast past them. That was only on pro, had to turn it down to expert so it would actually be possible to keep up. Meanwhile the other tracks I could've won easily on "Unbeatable." But the horsepower thing is interesting, didn't know that and usually the straights are where I end up overtaking, some tracks the AI is unreasonably fast around corners. Typically the tighter ones like Hockenheim and Catalunya. They're slow around road courses for some reason.

 

8 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

You would have had an easy win. Not only am I woeful, but I use a controller and haven't touched the game for 10 months.

Never mind, if you have a change of heart, you may call on J. Cushing Esq on these boards at any point to resolve this matter in the timeless, civilised manner. 

I'm not installing 90gb of game for that. Steam says I last played it September 2019, so you'd still have the more recent playthrough advantage. And some glowing trophies show me less than 9% of people have won a custom event and less than 4% have won a classic rally championship.

And I've been nothing but concise.

6 hours ago, ricxxV2 said:

Last post about this topic: The thing is, those devs might be right with all they say about Frostbite, it might've contributed a tiny bit to the failure of those studios

Devs directly quoting Frostbite as being a major sticking point isn't a minor issue though. I also never said it was the only cause of failure. ME:A had a lot of factors that led to failure, but that doesn't lessen the impact that Frostbite also had on it.

My primary point is that the engine was made by DICE, for DICE, exclusively for Battlefield, and to this day they still have the same bugs and issues that were present in BF4 in 2013, which incidentally didn't exist in BF3 on a previous iteration. You'd think if it was so easy to fix they would've done so by now after 4 Battlefield games and 2 Battlefront games, and visually apparent in leaked footage in the new one. Hell, I still don't even think BF games are actually in 5.1. I don't know if it's an engine limitation since I've not checked the other games, but Battlefield and Battlefront are essentially quad channel with the center channel reserved for callouts, and it doesn't scale up to 7.1. That alone is pretty ****, especially if you were going to make a racing game like that.

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On 9/11/2021 at 9:37 AM, SRD_SimVansevenant said:

@PJTierney the Greek stages in DR2.0, might they be sections of the Gravia stage they are running today in the WRC Acropolis Rally? I'm watching WRC+ and I recognise quite a few sections on their onboards. 

Gravia is in mainland Greece; northeast of Korinth, the stages in DR 2.0 are in Argolis, a peninsula southwest of Korinth. Hundreds of Ks apart.

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It's just an epic series for a good cause with epic teams and epic drivers. Abt, Andretti Autosport, Chip Ganassi Racing (they're driving with a flippin' Hummer)  and Veloce are just a few names. Hamilton, Button and Rosberg do also have their teams. Absolute legends like Catie Munnings, Jamie Chadwick, Jutta Kleinschmidt, the Hansen brothers, Ekström, Kristofferson compete in this. Oh, and Sainz and Loeb. 

Not to forget one of the best commentators for this kind of racing series, Andrew Coley. 

I think it's anything but sad. 

Edited by ricxxV2
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I think he's saying that if it was a series running V12s he'd like it more 😉 

 

I think the idea of Extreme E is a sound one, but the execution isn't there yet. The tracks feel like they're a bit too long and the vast majority of the weekend's action is essentially a Time Trial (but not in the rally sense).

Formula E was pretty poor in its first season too, but after a few years it was more fun to watch.

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4 hours ago, ricxxV2 said:

I know what he's saying, I just wanted to explain what that is 😛  

I'd probably rather just watch Baja and similar events in Nevada. Like I said, it's fireworks without sound. What's the point of fireworks without concussive booms?

"Listen to them go!" "...mrrrrrrr..."

Fireworks GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

1 hour ago, Rogerbee said:

It's a bit Marmite right now. It may improve, just have to see. I can't see it having quite the fanbase that WRC and F1 have.

I think what really gets me is the electric racecars don't seem much faster outside off the line while being significantly heavier with batteries that aren't really safe to crash. At least gas engine fires can be extinguished.

Edited by JZStudios
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Any fire can be extinguished. Fire needs oxygen to burn, if you take the oxygen away you have extinguished the fire. Of course there are special extinguishers for lithium-ion batteries. So to suggest it wouldn't be safe is wrong. If it wasn't safe to run an electric race car and if they couldn't guarantee the safety of all drivers there wouldn't be a series. 

Lithium-ion isn't going to be the solution forever. Pretty sure the technology will get cleaner and better and more efficient. 

 

Anyways, I was wondering if anyone tried the Lancia Delta S4 RX car. I think it is bugged or at least its differential. If you set torque distribution more to the rear, let's say at 42% it drives like a RWD as expected, but that doesn't change no matter how much you move the slider. Normally at 50%+ you should feel the front wheels pulling you out of corners a bit, but nothing. Still at 58% it drives like a RWD and oversteers like crazy. I think that's not normal. Its Group B rally counterpart is fine, though. 

I just wanted to mention this for the dev team for any future game that might be or might not be in development. ^^

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1 hour ago, ricxxV2 said:

Any fire can be extinguished. Fire needs oxygen to burn, if you take the oxygen away you have extinguished the fire. Of course there are special extinguishers for lithium-ion batteries. So to suggest it wouldn't be safe is wrong. If it wasn't safe to run an electric race car and if they couldn't guarantee the safety of all drivers there wouldn't be a series. 

Lithium-ion isn't going to be the solution forever. Pretty sure the technology will get cleaner and better and more efficient. 

Li-ion batteries only burn at a couple thousand degrees. It's a little more complicated than just a dry chemical extinguisher. There's a lot of different types of fire and electric battery fires are hard to put out. And they have to tendency to re-ignite itself. Remember Hammond's Rimac crash and it kept lighting itself on fire for days? My dad does a lot of work with batteries and we have to know these things. The best they could do is solid state batteries which are ludicrously expensive but are actually safe to pierce. It's a new tech.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/02/tesla-big-battery-fire-in-victoria-burns-into-day-three

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/ntsb-vehicle-battery-fires-pose-risks-1st-responders-75224666

https://www.airseacontainers.com/blog/how-to-put-out-lithium-battery-fire/

Batteries in general are potential bombs for hazardous materials.

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Everything that's flammable is a potential bomb. It's in the automotive industry's own interest to make sure the technology is safe. I think Tesla announced they found a new way to place the cells to improve cooling. Progress and innovation isn't going to stop here. I read that companies are exploring alternative materials like silicone e.g. 

Sure, a hose and some water isn't going to do the trick, one of your articles says that there are already training programs for first responders how to extinguish battery fires. Fortunately crashes and fires aren't the norm, a battery fire isn't going to be the end of western society. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, ricxxV2 said:

Everything that's flammable is a potential bomb.

Patently false. There's a difference between something burning, even flash burning, and exploding. You seem to have skipped over the fact that electric battery fires are still significantly harder to extinguish than a gas fire.

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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

Patently false. There's a difference between something burning, even flash burning, and exploding. You seem to have skipped over the fact that electric battery fires are still significantly harder to extinguish than a gas fire.

Patently true.  Read *all* the words you quoted.

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14 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

No, burning and explosions are not the same.

ALL!

ALL THE WORDS!!!!!!

In English, when you put words together in specific order they can have a different meaning than when they're on their own.  

Do you think gun powder explodes?

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