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Did you know that the long-time members of this thread have had a DiRTy Gossip Discord server for a while?

You do now 😉 

 

 

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11 hours ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

Patently true.  Read *all* the words you quoted.

He's trying to make the wrong argument against EVs. Battery fires is one of the weakest points, really. There are some real challenges with EVs in the future that are much harder to solve than extinguishing fire. 

I feel like people are sick and tired of all the arguments.

 

 

iu-3.jpeg

Edited by ricxxV2
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sigh

 

From a general consumer perspective, the main concerns with EVs are:

  • Price
  • Range
  • Repairability
  • Infrastructure

 

From a motorsport fan perspective, the main concerns are:

  • Noise
  • Reliability
  • Complexity

 

From a motorsport competitor perspective, the main concerns are:

  • Price
  • Complexity
  • Freedom of development (if you're a manufacturer)

 

All solvable of course and while EVs are increasingly relevant in the world, they're not quite there yet.

Extreme E isn't a great example of them in a motorsport sense, and Formula E has its own problems, but I think World RX will do a decent job with them next year, in making them exciting to watch while not having any battery concerns with their 3 minute races.

For what it's worth, the RX1e cars will be twice as powerful as the RX2e cars that are supporting World RX this year, so should be at least as quick as the current ICE competitors.

Nitro RX will eventually have both compete against each other in real races, while ICEs get phased out.

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12 hours ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

ALL!

ALL THE WORDS!!!!!!

In English, when you put words together in specific order they can have a different meaning than when they're on their own.  

Do you think gun powder explodes?

Do you think paper explodes? You're failing to understand that what he said, that ALL ALL! ALLALALALA!!!!@! things are explosives is false. Talk to a firefighter. Gunpowder does explode, unlike say, grass. You can jam as much grass as you want in a container and light it, it's not going to explode. Batteries explode. It's a lot of highly combustible materials held in a container. It's a very simple concept. Why you continue to fight to die on the wrong hill is beyond me. If you take gunpowder, sitting on the floor, and ignite it, it explodes. You picked nearly the worst example outside of maybe TNT and C4.

****, here, read Wikipedia. Gunpowder is an explosive, grass is not. And it's not even like Wikipedia is a good source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive

 

11 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

photofunky.gif

Not my fault he didn't take middle school chem class.

 

11 hours ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

Let me be more clear there, *just* gun powder does not explode.

*Just* gunpowder does explode. You're insane for thinking otherwise. You can argue semantics, the modern smokeless gunpowder is designed to burn slower, the older objectively better stuff does explode. But then you're being really semantic, you can also light C4 on fire and it won't explode without the proper charge. It doesn't make it not an explosive.

 

8 hours ago, PJTierney said:

scrambles to change topic

Won't be done.

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4 hours ago, ricxxV2 said:

He's trying to make the wrong argument against EVs. Battery fires is one of the weakest points, really. There are some real challenges with EVs in the future that are much harder to solve than extinguishing fire. 

Well then shouldn't the fires be a non-issue by now? And yet they aren't.

 

4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

All solvable of course and while EVs are increasingly relevant in the world, they're not quite there yet.

Extreme E isn't a great example of them in a motorsport sense, and Formula E has its own problems, but I think World RX will do a decent job with them next year, in making them exciting to watch while not having any battery concerns with their 3 minute races.

For what it's worth, the RX1e cars will be twice as powerful as the RX2e cars that are supporting World RX this year, so should be at least as quick as the current ICE competitors.

Nitro RX will eventually have both compete against each other in real races, while ICEs get phased out.

I don't watch RX enough to know how often they crash. The issue is when the battery cell is ruptured and it releases highly toxic flammable fumes. Race cars and their fuel tanks have nearly entirely solved that problem with self sealing tanks, and the fumes aren't as toxic.

How do they plan to do longer format races? Will they just use massive batteries or have to make a swappable undercarriage with batteries on it?

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No one is talking about grass.

ALL OF THE WORDS meant that you have to combine things, so grass on it's own isn't combining.

 

Gunpowder.  does.  not.  explode.

It doesn't matter if it's "classed" as an explosive in your research, it.  DOES.  NOT.  explode. -  and in the efforts of being clearer, i'm *still* talking about gunpowder on it's own.  Go take some of the gun powder you have and light it, see what happens - you may use black powder, commercial or make your own, or modern smokeless powder. 

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It's pointless to argue. Millions of EVs are on streets around the world, fires and crashes are not the norm. Fires are harder to extinguish, people are being trained how to fight battery fires. Tech will get better, it is in manufacturer's own interest to make sure batteries are safe. The negativity makes no sense and is purely ideological. 

Edited by ricxxV2
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9 hours ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

No one is talking about grass.

ALL OF THE WORDS meant that you have to combine things, so grass on it's own isn't combining.

 

Gunpowder.  does.  not.  explode.

It doesn't matter if it's "classed" as an explosive in your research, it.  DOES.  NOT.  explode. -  and in the efforts of being clearer, i'm *still* talking about gunpowder on it's own.  Go take some of the gun powder you have and light it, see what happens - you may use black powder, commercial or make your own, or modern smokeless powder. 

You keep talking as if I can't understand, while also seeming to claim that ALL OF THE WORDS that he wrote mean anything. He said anything can be an explosive. That's literally ALL OF THE WORDS.

 

Now you're talking nonsense. But yeah, you're right, this isn't an explosion.

 

 

In completely unrelated news now that I've won this argument he started for no reason, why is it that not a single racing sim will let you hold throttle ~2k rpm and slowly release clutch for a standard start? Every racing game you have to be above like 6000rpm to set off without stalling.

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I'm sure even you know that dextrin binding the gunpowder together stops it being just gunpowder, which i'm pretty certain i specified twice that we're just talking about gun powder, and only gunpowder.

That's the reason i'm talking like you don't understand.  Gun powder needs something, anything else to constrict it before it becomes in anyway explosive.

 

Every time you make a point and everyone raises their eyebrows, someone counters your point if they know about it, then you move the goalpost slightly and state it was there all along.

 

 

I too would like to know why throttle inputs in sim games feel that way - arguably you're flat out a lot, but it's odd they're not modelled after the way a car/physics/weight would make them feel.

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5 minutes ago, Frankiestail said:

This gunpowder thread ranks up there among the most pointless I’ve read in quite a while

Nah it's serious business, we're putting guns in the next game.

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...and it'll be powered by Frostbite. 🥶 

The reason why throttle input isn't 100% like IRL is most likely because it hasn't been coded that way. That is probably because you don't really need it and because you can't code every aspect around racing into a racing game.  

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10 hours ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

I'm sure even you know that dextrin binding the gunpowder together stops it being just gunpowder, which i'm pretty certain i specified twice that we're just talking about gun powder, and only gunpowder.

That's the reason i'm talking like you don't understand.  Gun powder needs something, anything else to constrict it before it becomes in anyway explosive.

 

Every time you make a point and everyone raises their eyebrows, someone counters your point if they know about it, then you move the goalpost slightly and state it was there all along.

 

 

I too would like to know why throttle inputs in sim games feel that way - arguably you're flat out a lot, but it's odd they're not modelled after the way a car/physics/weight would make them feel.

You have a very limited definition of gunpowder then. And if your argument is that gunpowder isn't an explosive, but the agent mixed in with it is, it still defeats your argument. There's no such thing as "just gunpowder." It's not a basic element. You're not reading ALL OF MY WORDs you keep quoting. Whether store bought gunpowder explodes or not doesn't mean that all other materials will. You're making a stupid argument for literally no reason and I have no idea why.

I didn't move the goal post. How I can continually say the same thing over and over and have people say I'm straw manning or moving goal posts is very interesting. No one but you raised an eyebrow, and you're wrong about it. Tell me nitroglycerin isn't an explosive. Your best case argument is that a lot of materials can be made explosive, which is true, but not every material. It's a dumb argument, you're wrong. Stop it. You brought up gunpowder on your own, I showed it exploding, then you said I moved goal posts and it's not "real gunpowder." I don't care. It doesn't change the fact that a lot of materials even pulverized into powder and locked in a container won't explode. Best case you could pressurize it, but that's not the material. 

 

I think throttle needs some kind of curve, but without a graph it would be hard to tell. I don't think most throttles are quite so linear or sensitive as most sim games are. In neutral it's very hard to find a balance point of 2-3k rpm. Forza is supposed to have flywheels you can change which will affect the rpm speed.

 

4 hours ago, Frankiestail said:

This gunpowder thread ranks up there among the most pointless I’ve read in quite a while

Agreed, I have no idea why he started it to prove a point that's wrong and doesn't matter.

 

4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Nah it's serious business, we're putting guns in the next game.

Hell yeah, that's getting the US audience involved.

 

3 hours ago, ricxxV2 said:

...and it'll be powered by Frostbite. 🥶 

The reason why throttle input isn't 100% like IRL is most likely because it hasn't been coded that way. That is probably because you don't really need it and because you can't code every aspect around racing into a racing game.  

Talk about moving goal posts. I said clutch, not throttle. People that learn to drive with sims (like I did) pick up god awful habits in many ways, but clutch and shifting in particular. Project Cars will let you ease off the clutch and get going, but trying a normal street car start ends in stalling. You have to rev the **** out of it, then you get in any actual manual and destroy your clutch because you're revving to 6k rpm to start off and go to the store.

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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

I said clutch, not throttle. 

Doesn't really change the answer. 

Playing racing games might help to get a feeling for driving in general but practising in a real car on a parking lot or private property is the only way. If you get an EV you don't need to worry about the clutch 😛  and if there's a gasoline shortage like in the UK now, you have no issues powering your car while everyone gets upset ^^

Edited by ricxxV2
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On 9/23/2021 at 11:21 AM, ricxxV2 said:

Everything that's flammable is a potential bomb.....

Correct.

On 9/23/2021 at 6:53 PM, JZStudios said:

Patently false. There's a difference between something burning, even flash burning, and exploding...

The statement that there are differences between burning, flash burning and exploding, has nothing to do with the comment you answered, which is that everything flammable is a potential bomb.

 

On 9/23/2021 at 10:21 PM, F2CMaDMaXX said:

Let me be more clear there, *just* gun powder does not explode.

Gun powder is one of the requirements of a basic explosive, it is not something that explodes on it's own - i am not referring to it's method of ignition.

 

On 9/24/2021 at 9:43 AM, JZStudios said:

Do you think paper explodes?...

Gunpowder does explode, unlike say, grass. You can jam as much grass as you want in a container and light it, it's not going to explode......

 

*Just* gunpowder does explode. You're insane for thinking otherwise. You can argue semantics, the modern smokeless gunpowder is designed to burn slower, the older objectively better stuff does explode. ....

 

Paper does not explode, but if you wrap it around gun powder, it does 🙂

Jam a ton of grass around gunpowder, it will explode, might need some dextrin to secure it around the gun powder though.

Modern smokeless powders, such as the ones i use in reloading my ammunition, have varying burn rates, depending on the cartridge type you're reloading, but in general, yes, it burns more slowly than the older black powder.  Black powder has a fast burn rate, but nothing close to exploding.

No semantics about it, no gun powder explodes on it's own, you keep missing that last part.

 

On 9/24/2021 at 9:50 AM, JZStudios said:

....I don't watch RX enough to know how often they crash. ....

How do they plan to do longer format races? Will they just use massive batteries or have to make a swappable undercarriage with batteries on it?

They don't run longer format races in RX, that's why it's being introduced there more easily.

 

On 9/24/2021 at 9:58 AM, F2CMaDMaXX said:

No one is talking about grass.

ALL OF THE WORDS meant that you have to combine things, so grass on it's own isn't combining.

 

Gunpowder.  does.  not.  explode.

It doesn't matter if it's "classed" as an explosive in your research, it.  DOES.  NOT.  explode. -  and in the efforts of being clearer, i'm *still* talking about gunpowder on it's own.  Go take some of the gun powder you have and light it, see what happens - you may use black powder, commercial or make your own, or modern smokeless powder. 

 

15 hours ago, JZStudios said:

You keep talking as if I can't understand, while also seeming to claim that ALL OF THE WORDS that he wrote mean anything. He said anything can be an explosive. .....

I said that because you're not reading all the words, you missed out the word potential from their comment, very important caveat you missed/skipped.

 

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

You have a very limited definition of gunpowder then. And if your argument is that gunpowder isn't an explosive, but the agent mixed in with it is, it still defeats your argument. There's no such thing as "just gunpowder." It's not a basic element. ....

I have the same definition of gun powder as anyone else but yourself apparently.  I did not say, it's not an explosive, i said it does not explode on it's own.  It requires constriction for there to be an explosion.  Don't confuse semantics with importance of definition in the English language, it matters.

Of course there is such a thing as "just gun powder" - it's how gun powder is defined 😄  there's no requirement of anything being a basic element for something to be called "just" - although 3 of them make up basic black powder.

 

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

I didn't move the goal post. How I can continually say the same thing over and over and have people say I'm straw manning or moving goal posts is very interesting. No one but you raised an eyebrow, and you're wrong about it.....

 

I was literally quoting you comment of saying "everything flammable is a potential bomb" was patently false.  Which in itself was patently false, that's all i called you out on, you must have misread the comment and didn't see the word "potential".

 

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

 

Tell me nitroglycerin isn't an explosive.....

No, i won't, because it *is* an explosive - however, again, you're mis-reading/quoting, i never said things weren't explosives, i said they didn't explode on their own, this is that goalpost thing i mentioned.

 

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

 

.....You brought up gunpowder on your own, I showed it exploding, then you said I moved goal posts and it's not "real gunpowder."...... 

I used the example of gun powder because of the fireworks - you showed how you make gunpowder explode, by constricting it, by once again completely ignoring all the words, specifically, the "does not explode on it's own"

 

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

...Talk about moving goal posts. I said clutch, not throttle.

You said both, and didn't specify which you were referring to, but the net outcome is the same, either the throttle isn't linear enough or the clutch isn't.  Shame, it's something i'd love them to get right/fix too.

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

People that learn to drive with sims (like I did) pick up god awful habits in many ways, but clutch and shifting in particular....

🤐

 

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Yep, I'm not going to ask people to please stop with there utterly nonsens and just leave the gossip topic. It is more than a year ago since there was decent gossip and the rubbish about gunpowder did it.

I salut you all ❤️ 💤

 

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@JZStudios I get that you want to "win" the argument and eloquently explain your reasonings but every time you go back and forth I am reminded of this:

 

xkcd: Duty Calls

Don't be that guy, please (same to anyone else reading this, you too @F2CMaDMaXX).

 

Just let them be wrong and shake your head in peace or something, engaging for too long derails every conversation here past the point of interest.

I get that there's not a lot of DiRT to talk about but don't fill this place with mud please.

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