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Did you know that the long-time members of this thread have had a DiRTy Gossip Discord server for a while?

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JZStudios said:
*text*
There's so much misinformation here I don't know where to start tbh... well, I'll make it quick.

1: Excessive zoom in will destroy any form of raster graphics, that's obvious. That shot isn't an excessive zoom and shows that the geometry there is just fully flat and there hasn't even been Anisotropic Filtering properly applied. Let me put it this way. The quality of the water and sand there, reminds me of 6-8 years old games.
2: Horizon doesn't have volumetric clouds, nor does Project CARS. Volumetric doesn't mean "3D". Just because something "looks" like 3D doesn't mean it is. Nor the fact that it is "moving". It's really not that hard to fool an eye.
3: The map may be smaller, but that doesn't change the fact it's open world. If it would be bigger, then they would had to adjust rendering distance and what not, but they would be capable of achieving pretty much the same quality.
4: Forza 5 doesn't have a fully PBR engine. Similar to Slightly Mad Studios Madness, they are running on... slightly hacked one. From what I can tell from the documentations, Forza 5 has physically based materials but no physcially based shadows, while pCARS has physically based shadows, but not materials. Forza 6 went to fully PBR mode (which also resulted in a LOT more pre-baked shadows, almost every shadow is pre-baked, that includes ambient occlusion as well).
4: I mean there rendering distance. In short, it renders objects 300km away, quite a lot further than anything on any open world map you can find in any game, maybe aside from The Crew. And of course, lighting is based off the environment, that's what dynamic lighting does in 3D graphics. However that is a brutally generalised statement, as there are many more things that come into play.
5: Pre-baked shadows are a problem if you want to have shadows around you AND dynamic weather at the same time. You may find it shocking, but pre-baked shadows can't change, while how the shadows look is highly affected by the time of day and weather. And quite few other things as well. They are good for distant objects when you're looking for optimisation, but not for places where there's anything... what's the word... ahh, yes, dynamic. It works in Forza Motorsport games, since the only thing moving is the car. In Forza Horizon they naturally can't go with pre-baked shadows due to dynamic weather and time of day, which is why the game has 30FPS.
6: PBR is just an industry standard now for best possible graphics. HBAO+? For older games, yeah. But new games are getting more and more into global illumination, which means VXAO (volumetric ambient occlusion) is going to become a standard for ambient occlusion. However from what can be seen on the gameplays, Forza Horizon 3 has pre-baked ambient occlusion, just like Forza Apex.
7: Well, believe what you want. The first shot is a pre-render (very obvious to that). They set up the scene in the engine and then rendered it with global illumination instead of the dynamic shadows. Gameplay shows how shallow and lacking in depth of field the forest is. No need to be a blind fanboy to not want to admit that. Everyone does pre-renders for screenshots, nothing to be ashamed of. Naturally all of those shortcoming are purely down to optimisation, so the game can even run on the Xbone. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just pointing out that they went a bit too much at some points.
8: Forza looks really good, no doubt about that. Definitely better than essentially every single PC sim out there. Most of them make me want to puke... but there's Project CARS which although not that great, is still better looking than the Forza games. It is hogging a lot and has its bad points, but in overall even though I find it to have that last-gen feeling to it (which funnily enough, I find it also in Forza, due to all the pre-baked shadows) it's still better looking than any Forza game. To each their own though. But undeniably Sony has the best looking racing games currently, DriveClub and the upcoming GT Sport, which has incredibly natural colours to it and the replay camera is just fantastic. The latest E3 gameplay makes the graphics proud.
9: Forza Motorsport is a "casual friendly" racing sim, just like Gran Turismo. Physics may not be the most realistic there is, so the sim fanatics will not be happy, but those that just want to play it for the racing experience and don't care how realistic the physics are? It's great. They have a really nice feel to it. And while I can't say anything about Horizon since I didn't had an occasion to play it, that is a highly popular simcade and a friend of mine who is not only crazy fast but also more suited to arcade racers (like myself, hate all you like) has been enjoying the physics in Horizon 2 a lot. I believe he mentioned that Horizon 2 blows GRID Autosport in terms of how good the physics feel. Funnily enough I found a lot of people that would also rank the simcade racers in terms of physics in the order like Horizon2>DriveClub>GRIDAutosport. Naturally, there are people who won't like them, again, to each their own.

Best to take this into PMs if you want to keep this up. I believe this is more than enough off-topic for now xD

gfRally said:
However, I think there now is a demand for certain aspects and features to be addressed and updated. My top 2 are:. Stage length, and Camera system.  
Things I would like to see are... not ready for the hardware that is currently available. Volumetric particles and global illumination is a stuff that the mightiest of setups would not run smoothly at 1080p resolution. And by smoothly here I mean 30FPS.
So with that in mind, from the next DiRT title I expect two things only. PBR engine and not a single excuse that sounds and means anything even remotely related to this: "Engine limitations" :D
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gfRally said:
Hey I wasn't trying to create a debate (again) about which raindrops are better.  :)

I was hoping to get some conversation going about EVO tech in DiRT and how much programming a dynamic environment cost as opposed to hand crafting it like we have now.

Many of us are looking for a big rewrite of EGO but I have an idea that's not exactly going to happen.  

However, I think there now is a demand for certain aspects and features to be addressed and updated. My top 2 are:. Stage length, and Camera system.  
Well, with the recent inclusion of EVO, hopefully they can start working on both more. Then again they said Evo is working on their own new IP...
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Forza & PCars are not for me. They lack of that dynamic I'm looking when racing a car on the limit.

I tried Forza Motorsport apex beta & even the replay at 60fps, the car in motion look robotic.

GRID 2 physic feel much more realistic than those 2 titles. Chris Harris did a good job on it.
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Enthusia is one of my favorite games ever. Still play it from time to time.

The physics are excellent even to this day and Dragon Range as well Löwenseering are among some of the best fictional tracks ever made, in my opinion.

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JZStudios said:
Well, with the recent inclusion of EVO, hopefully they can start working on both more. Then again they said Evo is working on their own new IP...
Given that even EA with its more than ridiculous budget is unifying everyone to use a single engine (Frostbite in a FIFA, when just 2 years ago they released the Ignition engine... didn't saw that one coming honestly), I can't imagine guys from Evo having a different tech than the rest of Codemasters. Surely the tech will be shared among all of the Codemasters studio to cut on unnecessary expenses and create a more unified workflow where teams could help each other in case of catching a deadline etc.

Unless they're like the SAAB of game developers xD
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JZStudios said:
Well, with the recent inclusion of EVO, hopefully they can start working on both more. Then again they said Evo is working on their own new IP...
Given that even EA with its more than ridiculous budget is unifying everyone to use a single engine (Frostbite in a FIFA, when just 2 years ago they released the Ignition engine... didn't saw that one coming honestly), I can't imagine guys from Evo having a different tech than the rest of Codemasters. Surely the tech will be shared among all of the Codemasters studio to cut on unnecessary expenses and create a more unified workflow where teams could help each other in case of catching a deadline etc.

Unless they're like the SAAB of game developers xD
Sure, but they could make a new engine or massively overhaul the current one.
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Not really. The guy in the middle gave DR 3/5 for its sound (wat?), and I lol'd when @soundfx replied:



But overall they gave it 4/5. 
Darin and Billy both gave 5/5 and it surely deserves that. Only R3E comes close IMO. Tranny whine is the only small thing I can find a bit subpar.
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I will never get the thing of VR. 

1. Buglars/Robbers can rob you when you have your headphone/headset + VR on your head. 
2. You will never look at your awesome simgear / cockpit again.
3. In my personal computing I use my simrig also for browsing or games which requires less to no mouse movement or it's a gamepad-game. 
4. Someone can easily murder you too according to point 1. 

For me Triple screen + Edtracker/Trackir/Opentrack is the way to go 
I'm just gonna ignore point 1 & 4.

2 - True, but in return, you get the proper cockpit for the car you're currently driving, in 3D.
3 - It's not like you can't take off your headset.

I've received my Oculus Rift yesterday, and the feeling of actually sitting in the cockpit of your car, and seeing everything in 3D, is just really amazing. Sure with Triple screen + Edtracker/Trackir/Opentrack you can look around, but in VR you haven't got bezels that are in the way, and it's in 3D as well.
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VR in 1992                                                                                                                                                    
Cosmetically the hardware hasnt really changed much.


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Jepsertti said:
I will never get the thing of VR. 

1. Buglars/Robbers can rob you when you have your headphone/headset + VR on your head. 
4. Someone can easily murder you too according to point 1. 
Remember kids, this is why you never deal drugs.
You are completely gone from the real world. You hear the game/video, you see the game/video. So you aren't aware of reality. So people be very careful, very silent and rob the house.

Imagine you are doing VR in your living room or so. Downstairs. It's night, and people can see through your window or curtains. If someone sees you are wearing VR and headphones he/she knows you probably aren't aware of the reality, because you are busy gaming, etc. so he/she has to change to break in your house, and just wander and looking for good stuff. And when you are done gaming or whatever and you take off the VR. You will be shocked. 
I'll report here as soon as this has happened to me. Keep checking back at least twice a day else you might miss it.

Also, why would 'he/she' need to change, I can't see their clothes while wearing a VR headset?
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Yes. VR will obviously die a quick death as burglars and murderers will have christmas every day.

On a more serious note, what makes me skeptical about VR in DR is the limited wheel animation that will kill the immersion instantly. The cockpits are also quite bland graphically.

Games like AC with 1:1 steering animation though, that's another story. That I'm kinda curious about.
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bogani said:
On a more serious note, what makes me skeptical about VR in DR is the limited wheel animation that will kill the immersion instantly. The cockpits are also quite bland graphically.
I hope this will be fixed in the VR update, easy fix might be to hide the hands so no animation is needed for those, and just sync the wheel rotation.
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Patch notes:
http://blog.codemasters.com/dirt/06/dirt-rally-update-version-1-11/

Details:

Hello DiRT fans – our latest patch has landed! Here’s the list of fixes that v. 1.11 will be bringing to DiRT Rally:

  • Game – Excessive knocking effect on wheels when playing rallycross (All platforms).
  • Racenet – Community Delta times should now display correctly (All platforms).
  • Game – AI for Classic and S1600 Rallycross adjusted to have more variety (All platforms).
  • Leaderboards – They will no longer be blank and the difference column works (All platforms).
  • Racenet – League events can now be restarted if you terminally damage, quit or complete an event (All platforms).
  • Community – Fixed the missing string that was being displayed in a very specific situation when Racenet was unavailable (All platforms).
  • Graphics – Fixes for rain effects displaying incorrectly on some AMD cards (PC).
  • Graphics – Motion blur being applied to cars in bonnet camera and in replays (PC).
  • Audio – Co-driver call near sector 2 in Russian is now played in the correct language (PC).
  • Game – Fix to prevent unrealistic AI times being shown on Hillclimb if you save and quit after finishing a time for Run 1 (PC).
  • Audio -Spotter call during the results screen for Portuguese Brazilian is now played in the correct language (PC).
  • Graphics – Rain causing bad reflections on some windscreens (XB1).
  • Achievements – The Only Way Is Up achievement now unlocks correctly (XB1).

Finally, we’ve also been investigating your concerns and comments about the weak FFB on certain Thrustmaster wheels. It’s still something we’re looking at, but the difference between the T300 and other Thrustmaster wheels is that the FFB is perfectly linear, with the intention of providing more realistic vehicle handling. In the first instance, we’ve been suggesting look at the settings that Thrustmaster have recommended – and some players have also found that reverting to PS3 mode, then re-enabling PS4 mode, will solve the issue.

Now, on to the fun stuff – you may notice that the patch doesn’t just bring fixes, but some additions to the content on DiRT Rally… We’ll discuss these in closer detail in tomorrow’s Road Book – but to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, we’ve added the following content:

  • Art – We’ve updated Pikes Peak International Hill Climb to celebrate the 100th Anniversary of the event, complete with official PPIHC logos and branding.
  • Game – We’ve updated the handling on the Hill Climb cars so that you can really attack the iconic Hill Climb course.
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TURBODEVIN19 said:
[...]
Now, on to the fun stuff - you may notice that the patch doesn’t just bring fixes, but some additions to the content on DiRT Rally... We’ll discuss these in closer detail in tomorrow’s Road Book – but to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, we’ve added the following content: [..]
So there is more new content than Pikes Peak stuff right? Gotta ge home and check it out.
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Krusi said:
TURBODEVIN19 said:
[...]
Now, on to the fun stuff - you may notice that the patch doesn’t just bring fixes, but some additions to the content on DiRT Rally... We’ll discuss these in closer detail in tomorrow’s Road Book – but to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, we’ve added the following content: [..]
So there is more new content than Pikes Peak stuff right? Gotta ge home and check it out.
Improved hillclimb handling as stated right after that. 
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Ok, did a quick Pikes Peak tarmac run with Quattro, here's what you can expect:
- brakes now don't lock up insta mode and are a lot more reliable (braking distance reduced as a result as well)
- high-speed acceleration is now definitely worse, I can't get to top speed with the same gearing as I could before the update
- grip... there's a downforce grip on those cars :D They behave... as you would expect. Truly great stuff.
- setups are deleted but you can still apply the Workshop ones, although their values will be altered (I've updated mine so it will work)

Can't wait for this fix to hit rally tarmac side. It's going to be blast then :D
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Krusi said:
TURBODEVIN19 said:
[...]
Now, on to the fun stuff - you may notice that the patch doesn’t just bring fixes, but some additions to the content on DiRT Rally... We’ll discuss these in closer detail in tomorrow’s Road Book – but to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, we’ve added the following content: [..]
So there is more new content than Pikes Peak stuff right? Gotta ge home and check it out.
Improved hillclimb handling as stated right after that. 
I'm going to assume these are minor, but I could be wrong 
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Ok, did a quick Pikes Peak tarmac run with Quattro, here's what you can expect:
- brakes now don't lock up insta mode and are a lot more reliable (braking distance reduced as a result as well)
- high-speed acceleration is now definitely worse, I can't get to top speed with the same gearing as I could before the update
- grip... there's a downforce grip on those cars :D They behave... as you would expect. Truly great stuff.
- setups are deleted but you can still apply the Workshop ones, although their values will be altered (I've updated mine so it will work)

Can't wait for this fix to hit rally tarmac side. It's going to be blast then :D


As the rally cars have nowhere near the size of spoilers/wings there probably won't be much of a difference. We've been told this fix is for PP onl:dizzy:

What I find interestng is how the wings/downforce was broken before.

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bogani said:
As the rally cars have nowhere near the size of spoilers/wings there probably won't be much of a difference. We've been told this fix is for PP onl:dizzy: 

What I find interestng is how the wings/downforce was broken before.
Either there won't be much, or there will be enough to make a difference. I would say the second, if that fix will ever arrive on the rally side of things. Crossing my fingers for that one.

As to that wings/downforce, the cars now behave the exact opposite of how they behaved before the update, aka now they are stable at high speed and not likely to slide (along with being a lot more planted), while a lot more agile/twitchy/responsive on the lower speeds which helps with cornering. Seems like my theory with inverted downforce may not have been completely bonkers as some tried to make it seem :p

Whatever it was though, glad it worked as now the only thing that is seriously wrong is the cars performance, as demonstrated by the screenshot below:


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bogani said:
On a more serious note, what makes me skeptical about VR in DR is the limited wheel animation that will kill the immersion instantly. The cockpits are also quite bland graphically.
I hope this will be fixed in the VR update, easy fix might be to hide the hands so no animation is needed for those, and just sync the wheel rotation.

You can switch off the arms in the options now and get 1:1 wheel movement.
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bogani said:
Yes. VR will obviously die a quick death as burglars and murderers will have christmas every day.

On a more serious note, what makes me skeptical about VR in DR is the limited wheel animation that will kill the immersion instantly. The cockpits are also quite bland graphically.

Games like AC with 1:1 steering animation though, that's another story. That I'm kinda curious about.
Because AC isn't bland graphically.... or have weird jagged knuckles... apart from the fact that most people use a lower DOR in DR anyways.
As to @RinusRally ... well.. I was going to ask don't you already wear headphones when you play, then remembered your deaf... so... I mean realistically, they don't even have to be quiet. And unless your rigs pointed at the door your not going to see behind you anyways.
Also yeah, @TURBODEVIN19, please get back to us when you've been murdered by death. It'd be interesting to get
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JZStudios said:
bogani said:
Yes. VR will obviously die a quick death as burglars and murderers will have christmas every day.

On a more serious note, what makes me skeptical about VR in DR is the limited wheel animation that will kill the immersion instantly. The cockpits are also quite bland graphically.

Games like AC with 1:1 steering animation though, that's another story. That I'm kinda curious about.
Because AC isn't bland graphically.... or have weird jagged knuckles... apart from the fact that most people use a lower DOR in DR anyways.
As to @RinusRally ... well.. I was going to ask don't you already wear headphones when you play, then remembered your deaf... so... I mean realistically, they don't even have to be quiet. And unless your rigs pointed at the door your not going to see behind you anyways.
Also yeah, @TURBODEVIN19, please get back to us when you've been murdered by death. It'd be interesting to get
Cockpit textures and driver animation is better in AC. You can't possibly disagree? 

Single seaters with low DOR will probably be suited best for VR immersion.
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I'll have to give the 208 a go on the tarmac PP. It has always been my least favorite car and track combo. It has always felt off and pretty damn terrible. Hopefully this patch will change my opinion and at last make it an enjoyable experience.
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zoliRX said:
I'll have to give the 208 a go on the tarmac PP. It has always been my least favorite car and track combo. It has always felt off and pretty damn terrible. Hopefully this patch will change my opinion and at last make it an enjoyable experience.
It feels pretty good now. Did a 7:56 on my second run, now you can drive with a lot more confidence and it's actually enjoyable
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zoliRX said:
I'll have to give the 208 a go on the tarmac PP. It has always been my least favorite car and track combo. It has always felt off and pretty damn terrible. Hopefully this patch will change my opinion and at last make it an enjoyable experience.
Ano oversteer of death anymore, it's way more planted as expected. It still starts to squirm around in a strange way when pushed really hard.
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bogani said:
zoliRX said:
I'll have to give the 208 a go on the tarmac PP. It has always been my least favorite car and track combo. It has always felt off and pretty damn terrible. Hopefully this patch will change my opinion and at last make it an enjoyable experience.
Ano oversteer of death anymore, it's way more planted as expected. It still starts to squirm around in a strange way when pushed really hard.
I can't imagine a car that has 1:1 power to weight ratio, with power being 800BHP, to not squirm around when you push them hard.
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Didzis said:
zoliRX said:
I'll have to give the 208 a go on the tarmac PP. It has always been my least favorite car and track combo. It has always felt off and pretty damn terrible. Hopefully this patch will change my opinion and at last make it an enjoyable experience.
It feels pretty good now. Did a 7:56 on my second run, now you can drive with a lot more confidence and it's actually enjoyable
Feels soooo much better. I had nothing but almost pure hatred for it before but it's now slowly growing on me. Really liking this update.

Managed to do a 7:57 on my first run and 7:46 on my second run. And just now I set a new PB of 7:42.
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