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NDA's can get quite silly at times.
An actual racing game example - Once a QA test team was denied the ability to test some not yet announced cars due to one big car brand's big publishing efforts. Well, since even the QA team was denied knowledge of what the cars are, you can assume how shitty the actual launch was. XD

^^ From a friend who was in this specific QA team.
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Snaky115 said:
NDA's can get quite silly at times.
An actual racing game example - Once a QA test team was denied the ability to test some not yet announced cars due to one big car brand's big publishing efforts. Well, since even the QA team was denied knowledge of what the cars are, you can assume how shitty the actual launch was. XD

^^ From a friend who was in this specific QA team.
Is this game in progress or is it old?
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JZStudios said:
dgeesi0 said:
gravel in dirt rally is amazing if im honest its why i play it. forza so easy i wont play it. pcars is just broken.assetto is great on tarmac.

what the next dirt rally needs is the accuracy of assetto on tarmac and its own for gravel.which is the best i ever played in any game.

theres no need to going into this that we just want something that drives well feels right.tarmac is a weak point for dirt rally.
You're still talking about the physics model, not the game engine. Which is still two very different things. There's a physics department, there's an art department, and there's that third department we don't really talk about because they sit at their desks wearing luchadore masks and complaining about how the three steps to their office make them lose weight. They do geeky coding things. Like make a better engine.
By the way, that's true, my friend works at a microchip design... place called Texas Instruments, and there's also some angry Russian guy that drags a 150 foot extension cord through the parking lot to plug in his electric car.
your trying to break something down to me a person who was a game tester for many years, still am. involved with numerous games, big games. i understand what is what .

i was just trying to avoid all the engine this that physics bs . the people who know what is what deal with that.this is a car game.i drive.i want the best experience.

waffle becomes more waffle for the sake of it. don't care what engine is what who makes the physics. just that it works.

that is all.


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dgeesi0 said:
JZStudios said:
dgeesi0 said:
gravel in dirt rally is amazing if im honest its why i play it. forza so easy i wont play it. pcars is just broken.assetto is great on tarmac.

what the next dirt rally needs is the accuracy of assetto on tarmac and its own for gravel.which is the best i ever played in any game.

theres no need to going into this that we just want something that drives well feels right.tarmac is a weak point for dirt rally.
You're still talking about the physics model, not the game engine. Which is still two very different things. There's a physics department, there's an art department, and there's that third department we don't really talk about because they sit at their desks wearing luchadore masks and complaining about how the three steps to their office make them lose weight. They do geeky coding things. Like make a better engine.
By the way, that's true, my friend works at a microchip design... place called Texas Instruments, and there's also some angry Russian guy that drags a 150 foot extension cord through the parking lot to plug in his electric car.
your trying to break something down to me a person who was a game tester for many years, still am. involved with numerous games, big games. i understand what is what .

i was just trying to avoid all the engine this that physics bs . the people who know what is what deal with that.this is a car game.i drive.i want the best experience.

waffle becomes more waffle for the sake of it. don't care what engine is what who makes the physics. just that it works.

that is all.


I'm confused by the waffles... and now I want to go to the wafflehouse... I haven't had waffles since December of 2012, and damn were they good.
I don't see why the sim racing world hasn't progressed graphically since 2003. All the "modern" racing sims look about the same as Live For Speed, which was made by like 3 people, in 2003. So why hasn't there been any change on the graphical front? Why can't the next sim look like Battlefront? I mean, if they're actually laser scanning everything, that's even better than photogrammetry, all they need is a decent material and lighting system, along with a more beefed up well optimized engine to handle larger amounts of geometry. AC at the very least is horribly optimized, and I get all sorts of micro stutters and it never feels smooth, even at 100+fps, whereas PCars feels like butter by comparison with 45FPS. Sim racing needs a kick in the ass.
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I think there might be more content coming, note the use of Dirt Rally with caption: Diverse Content: over 60 cars and tracks from the FIA WRC and RallyCross championships:
Hmmmm. I personally wouldn't count that as positive confirmation of anything. I think you could argue that DiRT Rally already contains "tracks from the FIA WRC and RallyCross championships".  The car number is interesting though, as I don't think DR has that many cars in it? 

Either way, awesome setup!
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JZStudios said:
///
I don't see why the sim racing world hasn't progressed graphically since 2003. All the "modern" racing sims look about the same as Live For Speed, which was made by like 3 people, in 2003. So why hasn't there been any change on the graphical front? Why can't the next sim look like Battlefront? I mean, if they're actually laser scanning everything, that's even better than photogrammetry, all they need is a decent material and lighting system, along with a more beefed up well optimized engine to handle larger amounts of geometry. AC at the very least is horribly optimized, and I get all sorts of micro stutters and it never feels smooth, even at 100+fps, whereas PCars feels like butter by comparison with 45FPS. Sim racing needs a kick in the ass.
Speaking as a game dev I can answer that to some extent.

This has nothing to do with Codies, it's just a general observation about development;

The problem is that making things pretty takes time and costs money and most of the sim teams seem to be quite small compared to "normal" AAA game dev teams. If you have a limited budget, a small team and you're aiming for a top quality sim racing then the physics and handling are always going to be higher priority than the graphical whizbangs of the day.

It is actually quite hard to make something look good and also run well. Even if you do laser scans you still have a lot of work to do to clean up the data and get something usable out of it. And if you do spend a lot of money to make it pretty, you need to make sure you can recoup the investment by selling a lot of copies. The consequence: the game maker is in the tricky position of having a niche product that cost a lot to make and have to sell a lot in order to keep the studio from going under and one way to reach a broader market is to be less niche but then you end up moving away from the sim idea you had in the first place. Congratulations, you're now trapped between a rock and a hard place :)

Easier to just keep the graphics functional and focus on the handling and driving experience and not spend all your money on the art side of things!
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i just looked at their other products they make.i think someone there has been looking at my brain.the handbrakes are perfect .the gear shifters are small and precise. why oh why are they just too expensive though to be considered :D

haha when i sent back feedback to fanatec few weeks ago handbrake and gearstick were very similar i suggested to them to make. shame i havent got a spare £50,000 to spend on their units :p
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So what sort of things might be in development that have to be kept secret then ?

i) A full rallycross game with all the tracks drivers teams and maybe some vintage cars. I can see how this could happen, especially since CM have already licensed some rally cross material, and I guess the rallycross organisers are keen to raise the profile of the sport.

ii) WRC licence. I can see why there would need to be some silence on this. The next game in the series is out in autumn (?) but the last game, WRC 5 was pretty much slated (I didn't buy so don't know for sure). I quite liked WRC3 and WRC4 from Milestone, but when the game is done by new developers then its almost certain to take a step back. I think CM could do a great WRC series but is there any chance of them getting together with the licence holders.

iii) A new Dirt 3 style game. This would probably need some other content, as well as rally cross and rally they would need a couple of other types of racing. Maybe something based on the X games. 

iv) My personal favourite, get the Dallenbach from Dirt 2 into Dirt Rally. That would be epic.
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dirt3joe said:

ii) WRC licence. I can see why there would need to be some silence on this. The next game in the series is out in autumn (?) but the last game, WRC 5 was pretty much slated (I didn't buy so don't know for sure). I quite liked WRC3 and WRC4 from Milestone, but when the game is done by new developers then its almost certain to take a step back. I think CM could do a great WRC series but is there any chance of them getting together with the licence holders.

When Christina said " We can't say anything because of NDA's ", this was the first thing that came to my mind... WRC License.

Now, in some way, that would be great but, in other hand, having a Rally game where there's limits to what Dev's can do ( needs to be a game most directed to casual gamers ) and an Annual release game, where most of the times, the newer game in series is just a reskin of the previous one, without much improvements, i'm not sure if the WRC License would be of any good.

It looks to have way more Cons than Pros to what i would like the next game to be, and what seems to be the new direction that Codies are taking with theirs games, much more focused on offering realistic gameplay ( a.k.a. more Sim focused ).

I still think they don't need the WRC License to do a great Rally game ( DR proved that ), they just need a bigger budget and, probably, more manpower to work on the game.

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Didzis said:
dirt3joe said:
iv) My personal favourite, get the Dallenbach from Dirt 2 into Dirt Rally. That would be epic.
That thing was OP, you could have a 2 minute lead by the end of the track :D
The handling was arcade but a lot of fun.

I think if CM are ever going to sell the same number of copies that Dirt 3 sold again they need to make the handling more accessible, or at least build a more accessible layer over the top of the sim handling (which should be easier than the other was round). I love Dirt Rally and I love the handling challenge, but it was/is never going to be a mainstream game that sold bucketloads because of the difficulty level. 
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dirt3joe said:
Didzis said:
dirt3joe said:
iv) My personal favourite, get the Dallenbach from Dirt 2 into Dirt Rally. That would be epic.
That thing was OP, you could have a 2 minute lead by the end of the track :D
The handling was arcade but a lot of fun.

I think if CM are ever going to sell the same number of copies that Dirt 3 sold again they need to make the handling more accessible, or at least build a more accessible layer over the top of the sim handling (which should be easier than the other was round). I love Dirt Rally and I love the handling challenge, but it was/is never going to be a mainstream game that sold bucketloads because of the difficulty level. 


With Evo Studios joining Codies, they can have both of the worlds now, Arcade games and Sim games. If i was in charge of Codies, i'd put half the studio doing Arcade games and the other half working on Sim's :P

Just don't do an arcade DR next, leave that name / IP to offer only a "hard-core" experience.

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Alf72 said:
Now, in some way, that would be great but, in other hand, having a Rally game where there's limits to what Dev's can do ( needs to be a game most directed to casual gamers ) and an Annual release game, where most of the times, the newer game in series is just a reskin of the previous one, without much improvements, i'm not sure if the WRC License would be of any good.
Well, that is usually the case due to the sales (it's easier to sell more when it's aimed at casuals). However if you look at the sales of the last arcade/simcade rally titles, namely SLRE and WRC5, both of their sales combined on Steam are less... than 10% of sales of DiRT Rally. Naturally there comes the side of the consoles, but even then the general reception of the games is about the same. For example, both SLRE and WRC5 have 45% positive comments on Steam, while DR has 90%. That says a lot ( @tbtstt no, it doesn't mean it's not a quality product because there's no rally guy name in the title :p ).

That can possibly mean the licensing team in FIA responsible for the WRC has come to a conclusion, that instead of making arcade WRC789 which only makes the sport look bad, they'll just make "DiRT: WRC" or something along the lines. Reception of the game was and still is incredibly positive, sales only prove that the game can easily sell if they'll at least keep the level of DiRT Rally with more content, which means that the sport itself could become more popular.

Of course, all of this is highly hypothetical so don't take anything I said as what is going to happen. We know for sure that the next title is going to be a better DiRT Rally. The only question left is how it's going to be called and what licenses it's going to have.


PS. I sincerely hope that Ego will be upgraded to PBR mode. I know some people here don't give a crap about graphics, but I personally enjoy graphics that are closer to photorealism than to some pixelated mess :p
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tbtstt said:
I think there might be more content coming, note the use of Dirt Rally with caption: Diverse Content: over 60 cars and tracks from the FIA WRC and RallyCross championships:
Hmmmm. I personally wouldn't count that as positive confirmation of anything. I think you could argue that DiRT Rally already contains "tracks from the FIA WRC and RallyCross championships".  The car number is interesting though, as I don't think DR has that many cars in it? 

Either way, awesome setup!
Combination of cars and tracks? Also they claimed across "Chamionships." So....
I'm also always a little baffled when they do motion control, but don't add at least the controls to the motion rig.
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urgaffel said:
JZStudios said:
///
I don't see why the sim racing world hasn't progressed graphically since 2003. All the "modern" racing sims look about the same as Live For Speed, which was made by like 3 people, in 2003. So why hasn't there been any change on the graphical front? Why can't the next sim look like Battlefront? I mean, if they're actually laser scanning everything, that's even better than photogrammetry, all they need is a decent material and lighting system, along with a more beefed up well optimized engine to handle larger amounts of geometry. AC at the very least is horribly optimized, and I get all sorts of micro stutters and it never feels smooth, even at 100+fps, whereas PCars feels like butter by comparison with 45FPS. Sim racing needs a kick in the ass.
Speaking as a game dev I can answer that to some extent.

This has nothing to do with Codies, it's just a general observation about development;

The problem is that making things pretty takes time and costs money and most of the sim teams seem to be quite small compared to "normal" AAA game dev teams. If you have a limited budget, a small team and you're aiming for a top quality sim racing then the physics and handling are always going to be higher priority than the graphical whizbangs of the day.

It is actually quite hard to make something look good and also run well. Even if you do laser scans you still have a lot of work to do to clean up the data and get something usable out of it. And if you do spend a lot of money to make it pretty, you need to make sure you can recoup the investment by selling a lot of copies. The consequence: the game maker is in the tricky position of having a niche product that cost a lot to make and have to sell a lot in order to keep the studio from going under and one way to reach a broader market is to be less niche but then you end up moving away from the sim idea you had in the first place. Congratulations, you're now trapped between a rock and a hard place :)

Easier to just keep the graphics functional and focus on the handling and driving experience and not spend all your money on the art side of things!
I get that, but there's been smaller teams who've done more impressive things. iRacing at the very least is continuously bringing in a good chunk of pocket change. And they haven't changed graphically in a while. I think recently they claimed to go PBR or something, but I'm not sure I believe that. It doesn't look any different. It's just kind of goofy because eventually the engine limitations are widely known but they don't bother to fix them. Not that you CM guys are lazy, but the Ego engine is definitely aging and the limitations cut a lot of wanted features, though I'm also assuming you guys have people working on it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just don't understand why some devs continually release essentially the same game time and time again with the same engine and faults.
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A good idea for the next game could be a History Mode in the career, and this could be divided in 4 carrera with different price Games depending on where you start your career, the top of the game would be WRC'17 beasts, and you can start your career there if you pay for the Millonaire edition of DR2(120 usd) you can start in an R5 if you go for the Pro edition of DR2(80 usd) you could go then for the Normal edition that you start in a R2 in BRC and you need to effort in order to get to WRC. And then the last one the Cheap edition of WRC that you start in a regional Championship in a bit old Car and to reach WRC could be pretty difficult, a looong way dealing with budgets.
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I think there might be more content coming, note the use of Dirt Rally with caption: Diverse Content: over 60 cars and tracks from the FIA WRC and RallyCross championships:

https://youtu.be/laz8gKpzY0Y
I think it's just marketing gibberish. There is nothing specific on their website.
http://www.cxcsimulations.com/news/the-red-bull-simulator/
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