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dgeesi0 said:
zoliRX said:
JZStudios said:
I've said it a few times before, and it's not the popular opinion, but I really liked Dirt 2's trailer menu system. Sure, it's not the quickest, but it was more immersive. It did feel like it was always based at the X-games though. They could do the same type of deal but tone down the grandeur.

You're not alone. I loved the trailer part of the menus in DiRT2 as well. If they'd do something similiar for DR:2, I'd be all for it.
hated the trailer bit.was a bit clumsey and time consuming.trying to quit from it also you had to wait ages.think dirt rally has the menu and starting rallying/playing just about right.easy to navigate and straight into action.somethings like changing car set ups should be better though like on the fly and using other peoples set ups from the leaderboards.like in F1 2016 which does this effortlessly. also checking times for tracks before doing them.not after.

story mode or single player dont know how you would do it. im not a person who really plays them. love f1 2016 great fun didnt touch the single player.

next person will want different to me which is fine as long as different people can have a something they like in the next game.which doesnt effect the fun of each other.which is differcult to make.

wonder when we will see a early access prog on steam. my guess will be about same time as last year around easter but guess they will have alpha builds maybe around now or early next year.
Don't think there will be an EA program this time around. I believe the devs stated that somewhere.

I'm almost as hyped about the possibility of a full RX career in the next game.
Full event structure online would be insanely sweet for leagues online. Gather like 20 people, divided into heats. Do your heat, manage repairs/setup while the other heats are going on. Be able to spectate if you'd like to. 
After the first sets of heats are completed you get divided once again etc. After 4 heats the best go through to semis and then final.

Damn, I'm drooling now :)
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Didzis said:
The racing might be fun, but often arcades don't really work with wheels.
That's because arcades are made generally for gamepads. And if you want to use a wheel, then anything more than 120 DOR is basically pointless. And again... arcades are about racing, not driving. It doesn't matter much how the physics feel to drive, it matters how they behave in a race, what they allow to happen, if they "match" the environment etc.
You can't go into an arcade racer with a sim mindset, just as you can't go into a sim racer with an arcade mindset. Even though both are racing games, they represent two completely different genres altogether. Similar story to RPGs and jRPGs. In short... enjoy it for what it is, not for what you want it to be.

PS. The Crew is a simcade and yes the physics are floaty and rather crap in general. If you want to know what a proper arcade racer is, look at actual Need For Speed games (aka everything pre Underground), Burnout, Redout, Wipeout, GRIP, Rollcage, Most Wanted '05, Hot Pursuit '10. Arcade racers nowadays are quite a lost genre, as nowadays it's either sim or simcade, or puke inducing arcade in the form of Need For Sales '15.
I'm not talking about physics, you can have an arcade which still feels good with a wheel (could GRID2 be considered an arcade and not a simcade?). And I dissagree on that 120 DOR (if that's lock to lock), that is just unusable in any situation, you just couldn't go on a straight line, the least usable DOR is about 180-200°.

The Crew whith a wheel actually feels kinda ok if you ignore the floatyness. There is some feedback and you can even feel the back step out and catch slides. I remember playing Hot Pursuit 2 (the 2002 one) with a wheel, it was fine, the '05 Most Wanted wasn't that good. Actually, from somewhat more recent ones, Need for Speed the Run felt pretty ok with a wheel, and the new NFS 2015 also was ok
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bogani said:
dgeesi0 said:
zoliRX said:
JZStudios said:
I've said it a few times before, and it's not the popular opinion, but I really liked Dirt 2's trailer menu system. Sure, it's not the quickest, but it was more immersive. It did feel like it was always based at the X-games though. They could do the same type of deal but tone down the grandeur.

You're not alone. I loved the trailer part of the menus in DiRT2 as well. If they'd do something similiar for DR:2, I'd be all for it.
hated the trailer bit.was a bit clumsey and time consuming.trying to quit from it also you had to wait ages.think dirt rally has the menu and starting rallying/playing just about right.easy to navigate and straight into action.somethings like changing car set ups should be better though like on the fly and using other peoples set ups from the leaderboards.like in F1 2016 which does this effortlessly. also checking times for tracks before doing them.not after.

story mode or single player dont know how you would do it. im not a person who really plays them. love f1 2016 great fun didnt touch the single player.

next person will want different to me which is fine as long as different people can have a something they like in the next game.which doesnt effect the fun of each other.which is differcult to make.

wonder when we will see a early access prog on steam. my guess will be about same time as last year around easter but guess they will have alpha builds maybe around now or early next year.
Don't think there will be an EA program this time around. I believe the devs stated that somewhere.

I'm almost as hyped about the possibility of a full RX career in the next game.
Full event structure online would be insanely sweet for leagues online. Gather like 20 people, divided into heats. Do your heat, manage repairs/setup while the other heats are going on. Be able to spectate if you'd like to. 
After the first sets of heats are completed you get divided once again etc. After 4 heats the best go through to semis and then final.

Damn, I'm drooling now :)
This could be a really fun and exciting way to spend an evening, excitement because of possible elimination and being able to spectate after being eliminated keeps you engaged.
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zoliRX said:
JZStudios said:
I've said it a few times before, and it's not the popular opinion, but I really liked Dirt 2's trailer menu system. Sure, it's not the quickest, but it was more immersive. It did feel like it was always based at the X-games though. They could do the same type of deal but tone down the grandeur.

You're not alone. I loved the trailer part of the menus in DiRT2 as well. If they'd do something similiar for DR:2, I'd be all for it.
Wow, gents.  All this time and I thought I was the only one.  @JZStudios it felt X-Games because it was supposed to feel that way. ;)  Thats been my complaint for a long time, we need immersion from the start, we need to FEEL like we are somewhere.  I liked D2 x-games feel at the time, still don't mind it for what it is.  However for a real Rally game, it should be a little more mature.  

The system could be sped up for those that want to move on quickly, but again, if you are standing outside the service tent, choosing your setup, click ok.. and the lead tech waves you over to get in the car (as you see the timer clock wind down), you walk towards the open door... then you load up to the stage,  a map shows up with the transit section (kind of like D2 and I believe CMR3 showed it) till the 'dot' reaches the stage then you appear there WITH CARS IN FRONT!  You wait a few seconds till you are waved up, time control checks with codriver, and then the clock ticks on one side and the other is the person using the finger count.

You complete the stage, drive up to time control and fade out... NO CRAZY END SOUND like D2/D3 just fade away.  again back to transit load screen.. etc

Each service location would have a different background (like D2) 


This would be my perfect experience, you FEEL like you are part of an actual Rally in a rally environment.  I think this is what @BadD0g was referring to, there is more to it then just the stage.  I really don't think this would be a burden to those that want to just get to the racing, it just needs to be done right and not feel too [draggy?]


Thanks for listening..
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bogani said:
dgeesi0 said:
zoliRX said:
JZStudios said:
I've said it a few times before, and it's not the popular opinion, but I really liked Dirt 2's trailer menu system. Sure, it's not the quickest, but it was more immersive. It did feel like it was always based at the X-games though. They could do the same type of deal but tone down the grandeur.

You're not alone. I loved the trailer part of the menus in DiRT2 as well. If they'd do something similiar for DR:2, I'd be all for it.
hated the trailer bit.was a bit clumsey and time consuming.trying to quit from it also you had to wait ages.think dirt rally has the menu and starting rallying/playing just about right.easy to navigate and straight into action.somethings like changing car set ups should be better though like on the fly and using other peoples set ups from the leaderboards.like in F1 2016 which does this effortlessly. also checking times for tracks before doing them.not after.

story mode or single player dont know how you would do it. im not a person who really plays them. love f1 2016 great fun didnt touch the single player.

next person will want different to me which is fine as long as different people can have a something they like in the next game.which doesnt effect the fun of each other.which is differcult to make.

wonder when we will see a early access prog on steam. my guess will be about same time as last year around easter but guess they will have alpha builds maybe around now or early next year.
Don't think there will be an EA program this time around. I believe the devs stated that somewhere.

I'm almost as hyped about the possibility of a full RX career in the next game.
Full event structure online would be insanely sweet for leagues online. Gather like 20 people, divided into heats. Do your heat, manage repairs/setup while the other heats are going on. Be able to spectate if you'd like to. 
After the first sets of heats are completed you get divided once again etc. After 4 heats the best go through to semis and then final.

Damn, I'm drooling now :)
This could be a really fun and exciting way to spend an evening, excitement because of possible elimination and being able to spectate after being eliminated keeps you engaged.
The heats are around 3-4 minutes too. Not lots of time so I'd gladly spectate the action of others :)
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gfRally said:
zoliRX said:
JZStudios said:
I've said it a few times before, and it's not the popular opinion, but I really liked Dirt 2's trailer menu system. Sure, it's not the quickest, but it was more immersive. It did feel like it was always based at the X-games though. They could do the same type of deal but tone down the grandeur.

You're not alone. I loved the trailer part of the menus in DiRT2 as well. If they'd do something similiar for DR:2, I'd be all for it.
Wow, gents.  All this time and I thought I was the only one.  @JZStudios it felt X-Games because it was supposed to feel that way. ;)  Thats been my complaint for a long time, we need immersion from the start, we need to FEEL like we are somewhere.  I liked D2 x-games feel at the time, still don't mind it for what it is.  However for a real Rally game, it should be a little more mature.  

The system could be sped up for those that want to move on quickly, but again, if you are standing outside the service tent, choosing your setup, click ok.. and the lead tech waves you over to get in the car (as you see the timer clock wind down), you walk towards the open door... then you load up to the stage,  a map shows up with the transit section (kind of like D2 and I believe CMR3 showed it) till the 'dot' reaches the stage then you appear there WITH CARS IN FRONT!  You wait a few seconds till you are waved up, time control checks with codriver, and then the clock ticks on one side and the other is the person using the finger count.

You complete the stage, drive up to time control and fade out... NO CRAZY END SOUND like D2/D3 just fade away.  again back to transit load screen.. etc

Each service location would have a different background (like D2) 


This would be my perfect experience, you FEEL like you are part of an actual Rally in a rally environment.  I think this is what @BadD0g was referring to, there is more to it then just the stage.  I really don't think this would be a burden to those that want to just get to the racing, it just needs to be done right and not feel too [draggy?]


Thanks for listening..
Agree with you on this one. This would be really immersive. However much I like the menu's in DiRT Rally and the quick actions at the top, having your own trailer and all in DiRT 2 was really awesome as well. For DR2 it would indeed have to be a lot more mature off course, and to (try) keep everyone happy there should be a setting to turn all this "nonsense" off. I could even imagine, that I'd want to do so after a couple of hundred hours of playing. 
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Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the DiRT page?

https://www.facebook.com/dirtgame/photos/a.231832723555970.56129.132609796811597/1199724386766794/?type=3&theater

"4 is definitely better than 3". Am I reading too much into it, or is that another number 4 hint there?...
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Didzis said:
And I dissagree on that 120 DOR (if that's lock to lock), that is just unusable in any situation, you just couldn't go on a straight line, the least usable DOR is about 180-200°.
If you want to go in a straight line you don't turn. Quite simple really :p 180-200 means you can't do quick reactions, which essentially will ruin your performance and feeling in a lot of arcade racers, different story for a simcade though. And yes, it comes down to physics, because in a lot of arcades opposite lock is a must, while in sims you shouldn't really be getting to it.
GRID 2 is a simcade. There's a simple rule to deciding if a game is an arcade racer or not. If you can spin the car while going through a corner without the use of handbrake or any form of collision... it ain't arcade.

And if 120 DOR would be unusable... then how come people use keyboard and gamepads to play racing games and are faster than wheel users that use even 180 DOR in arcade racers? I mean how they are able to play the games at all? Enlighten me Sherlock, because I honestly cannot understand that at all /strong sarcasm
They could do it like wrc 6 did and have a camera move arouns as you selected things from a simple menu. That kinda combines both.

or the immersive DiRT 2 style trailer could be restricted to career mode only. Everything else could use a more traditional menu system
Or... they could go for a CMR 2.0 menu along with its theme and call it a day. That would be perfect. Although I admit I am a fan of the DiRT 2 trailer menu, but still... CMR2.0 menu is just... a completely different level. So good. Especially with that music.
gfRally said:
You complete the stage, drive up to time control and fade out... NO CRAZY END SOUND like D2/D3 just fade away.  again back to transit load screen.. etc
There's also the option to turn off the music volume down to 0, which results in just that :p
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tbtstt said:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the DiRT page?

https://www.facebook.com/dirtgame/photos/a.231832723555970.56129.132609796811597/1199724386766794/?type=3&theater

"4 is definitely better than 3". Am I reading too much into it, or is that another number 4 hint there?...
I was going to write the same LOL, but I would rather prefer DiRT Rally 2.0 than DiRT 4 or a new one like DiRT Rally, nobody was expecting it.
By the way, nobody noticed who is the one that was VIP-knighted?
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Didzis said:
And I dissagree on that 120 DOR (if that's lock to lock), that is just unusable in any situation, you just couldn't go on a straight line, the least usable DOR is about 180-200°.
If you want to go in a straight line you don't turn. Quite simple really :p 180-200 means you can't do quick reactions, which essentially will ruin your performance and feeling in a lot of arcade racers, different story for a simcade though. And yes, it comes down to physics, because in a lot of arcades opposite lock is a must, while in sims you shouldn't really be getting to it.
GRID 2 is a simcade. There's a simple rule to deciding if a game is an arcade racer or not. If you can spin the car while going through a corner without the use of handbrake or any form of collision... it ain't arcade.

And if 120 DOR would be unusable... then how come people use keyboard and gamepads to play racing games and are faster than wheel users that use even 180 DOR in arcade racers? I mean how they are able to play the games at all? Enlighten me Sherlock, because I honestly cannot understand that at all /strong sarcasm
Just reinstalled Hot Pursuit (the new one), I guess you're right. The steering is so numbed down it just don't feel much twitchiness from the low degrees. Still, I wouldn't go below 180°, you can go lock to lock on that fast enough. What I don't like about arcades is that most of them countersteer for you, when you go in a drift and even if it supports a wheel, there usually are no options for it besides button bindings.
Came up with another rule for arcades - if you can succesfully initiate a drift through a 90° bend going 290km/h, it probably is an arcade :D 

The unusableness would come from the fact that slight movements would have big impact and little corrections often lead to overcorrecting and fishtailing. On a keyboard, when you let go of the keys, the steering is dead centre and pads usually have huge deadzones for the joysticks. But apparently that doesn't apply to arcades, I guess :D Using 120° in DiRT Rally I probably couldn't finish a stage, 200° with my old wheel was twitchy enough in the straights :D 
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They could do it like wrc 6 did and have a camera move arouns as you selected things from a simple menu. That kinda combines both.

or the immersive DiRT 2 style trailer could be restricted to career mode only. Everything else could use a more traditional menu system
Or... they could go for a CMR 2.0 menu along with its theme and call it a day. That would be perfect. Although I admit I am a fan of the DiRT 2 trailer menu, but still... CMR2.0 menu is just... a completely different level. So good. Especially with that music.
I disagree. I think your wrong. I didn't play CMR 2.0, but looking at it's menu, it's very bland and that weird seafoam green isn't particularly attractive.
https://youtu.be/9hx2jZypQ-M
You can't even see the car while you're selecting it. I can't seem to find a video of WRC 6's menu, but based on what it sounds like it could work. You could start off in the open area, like D2's, and have your last used car sitting there, probably with some mechanics doing... many things. Maybe even have the hood open. Forza's Autovista is quite a cool feature, and I often find myself messing around in it looking the car over. D2 sort of had that. Bring it back. You could have a simple menu interface, instead of trying to figure out where things were like in D2, and the different options quickly lead you to different places. Inside could be the exit where you go to sleep, or other system settings/control options. Outside could be your manager with the location/career map.... I suppose you could much like DR have an initial selection of career of custom event, then lead to your open career, or custom options. The map could have all your destinations pointed out.
I also personally liked when you got everything ready in D2, and it zoomed out to the map, traveled to the location, then zoomed back in. It's a neat feature, and BF1 does it pretty well too.

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Oh one more thing that was a great by-product of seeing the actual in game car sitting in the tent, was it had the user made livery that you added.  Not showing up in car selection screen isn't a big deal if you immediately see what you really picked right after.  
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JZStudios said:

They could do it like wrc 6 did and have a camera move arouns as you selected things from a simple menu. That kinda combines both.

or the immersive DiRT 2 style trailer could be restricted to career mode only. Everything else could use a more traditional menu system
Or... they could go for a CMR 2.0 menu along with its theme and call it a day. That would be perfect. Although I admit I am a fan of the DiRT 2 trailer menu, but still... CMR2.0 menu is just... a completely different level. So good. Especially with that music.
I disagree. I think your wrong. I didn't play CMR 2.0, but looking at it's menu, it's very bland and that weird seafoam green isn't particularly attractive.

You can't even see the car while you're selecting it. I can't seem to find a video of WRC 6's menu, but based on what it sounds like it could work. You could start off in the open area, like D2's, and have your last used car sitting there, probably with some mechanics doing... many things. Maybe even have the hood open. Forza's Autovista is quite a cool feature, and I often find myself messing around in it looking the car over. D2 sort of had that. Bring it back. You could have a simple menu interface, instead of trying to figure out where things were like in D2, and the different options quickly lead you to different places. Inside could be the exit where you go to sleep, or other system settings/control options. Outside could be your manager with the location/career map.... I suppose you could much like DR have an initial selection of career of custom event, then lead to your open career, or custom options. The map could have all your destinations pointed out.
I also personally liked when you got everything ready in D2, and it zoomed out to the map, traveled to the location, then zoomed back in. It's a neat feature, and BF1 does it pretty well too.

here is a vid that shows the menus I was talking about. it's from around 1:27 (Just ignore the annoying voice)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN5a6ZFlBBU

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JZStudios said:
Yeah, that's not bad. The initial start up is a bit like Forza. Think the visual transition between the places could be a bit snappier. D2 was a weird menu system, but it was also fairly snappy, the WRC6 looks a bit lethargic.
Those have to be the ssssslloooowist moving tech's ever XD  

WRC6 is a good idea with bad implementation.  I still like the First Person view of D2...   

Another idea:  Since a lot still like the trailer from D2, I think its common for real rally, that you would go to your trailer to see current standings, and other race data.  Perhaps this is where you would go to review/save/etc your replay.  Possibly it could be the place you can quickly access the Online features, run a quick stage/event or whatever.  Thats also where you can pick your event type: Stage Rally, Pikes Peak (or Hillclimb), Dakar/Rally Raid, and Rally Cross.    

Basically the Trailer would be where you go to do 'paperwork' side of rallying.  Even where you would talk to your team manager/principle about codrivers/cars/sponsers.  The business end of it all. 



Thats if for me, today, my bill is in the mail :)


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JZStudios said:
I disagree. I think your wrong. I didn't play CMR 2.0, but looking at it's menu, it's very bland and that weird seafoam green isn't particularly attractive.
That's the PC version, which has awful colour. The PSX PAL version has the best colouring. Also, it's quite obvious that a car selection screen could've more to it than there. Service area would've been also a proper one but... PSX, so hardware limitations.
My point is... with that kind of menu and the hardware/tech available nowadays, you can implement a lot of things fairly easily while keeping it very quick and intuitive and still giving some nice animations to look at.
Didzis said:
What I don't like about arcades is that most of them countersteer for you, when you go in a drift and even if it supports a wheel, there usually are no options for it besides button bindings.
Yep, that brings me back to the point I made before. Don't go into an arcade racer with sim mindset and vice versa. In a sim or even simcade, you're concentrated on dealing with the car, not really opponents (which is why overtakes in circuit racers are very... schematic shall we say). Arcade is about dealing with... environment, aka opponents, traffic, shortcuts, jumps and what not. Again, it's about the racing not driving.

So with the countersteering example, because the game does it for you, you can drift easily on every corner side by side with your opponents in Hot Pursuit '10 (outrageous drifting speed makes it just that more epic). That's not something you can do in simcades or sims through a single corner, let alone entire race. Although naturally not all arcades are "Drift for the win", nor do they even have roads that support that kind of gameplay. But the point stands... you're gonna have very close races that just won't ever happen in a simcade or sim.
Heck, when I do some session with friends in Hot Pursuit, we usually end up driving in a single track, with the same car (we go in turns picking the car), just because in that combo it results in both hilarious and extremely epic situations. For example, 3 lane corner, in a tunnel, going 4 wide into that while all are drifting at above 250km/h+. It will either end up looking epic... or in a massive crash where everyone end up laughing their lungs out.
And that's the point of arcade. You don't complain "it's not possible" or "why does it steer for me?", you simply benefit from what those things allow you to do which normally are either impossible or only for "few chosen ones" (which only do those things for montages or what not). Arcade racers are a completely different genre than simcade or sim racers. If you can't enjoy simplicity then... you simply don't play them, just as you don't play other genres you don't like. I mean do you play an FPS game and complain you can't get a good feeling with a steering wheel or that the car selection is too small or non existent?
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I did ask the team about adding some features in dirt rally  when we visited pre release, one was just simply being able to see the car in the background of the repair vehicle screen with your engineers working on it, but they said it would come at the cost of bigger features like maybe stages or locations, or the snowbanks. Hopefully the guys will get a bit more freedom with the next game to add more 'showy' stuff like there was in the previous games (without making it all 'dude bro' this time of course!)
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What I want most is a dedicated part of the menu that details stage conditions, like in CMR4. It has stage maps with info about surface types and weather, and it details the next two stages between service areas. When I'm at the service area looking at this information, I feel like the decisions I'm making about tires/setup are informed and significant because I'm basing them on the info provided (by the gravel crew I suppose). In DR I don't get that feeling at all. I base setup changes on how the car felt on the previous stages; whereas in CMR I base it on how I expect the upcoming stages to be. Part of this was made better by the game's exaggerated surface types and weather, but I loved the way it felt to be thinking ahead during an event. It made these decisions much more fun for me than they are in DR. 
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BadD0g said:
What I want most is a dedicated part of the menu that details stage conditions, like in CMR4. It has stage maps with info about surface types and weather, and it details the next two stages between service areas. When I'm at the service area looking at this information, I feel like the decisions I'm making about tires/setup are informed and significant because I'm basing them on the info provided (by the gravel crew I suppose). In DR I don't get that feeling at all. I base setup changes on how the car felt on the previous stages; whereas in CMR I base it on how I expect the upcoming stages to be. Part of this was made better by the game's exaggerated surface types and weather, but I loved the way it felt to be thinking ahead during an event. It made these decisions much more fun for me than they are in DR. 
Yes, in DR is like setupping a race car, not a rally car, you need to know the stage or you can't set up it for the stage or the chance to rain or not, maybe you put some rain tires expecting it but it didnt rain and you lose the rally or the inverse
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Yeah, some of my favorite moments in CMR are from knowing one of the next two stages will be dry, and the other will be rainy: Do I take the dry tires, push on the dry stage to build a lead, and take it easy in the rain in hopes of holding it? Or do I risk running the wet tires on the dry stage (and wearing them down) in hopes that I can have an advantage on the rainy stage when I know the other drivers will be slower?
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