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Did you know that the long-time members of this thread have had a DiRTy Gossip Discord server for a while?

You do now 😉 

 

 

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Didzis said:
MrDeap said:
Didzis said:
MrDeap said:
In a simulator, if you drive wrong, it should lead to oversteer, not understeer.
Why though? Like if you watch those rally crash videos, most of the crashes are because someone understeered and went off the track. Why would a sim be different? When you brake and turn at the same time, you're just gonna lock up your wheels and go straight, or if you're going too fast in a corner, again you're going to have understeer.
If you mash your gas in a slow corner, yes, you will have oversteer, but that's just one way of wrong driving

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuQm5BiZjWE

Not sure what your point was with that, but you can see a lot of examples both with understeer and oversteer there
There's more cases of losing it from trail braking oversteer completely lose it... or overcorrect...panic... use the brake button... plow straight

There's some case where the car understeer, but they don't slowly understeer like in sim does. The car just plow straight. The only way to get that slow understeer is by not braking , having the car balanced on longitudinal force with a tad bit of acceleration almost neutral & leave the tire give up while turning in. 

As soon as you use brake pressure getting front load, the steering is over responsive which make the car very twitchy at high speed, easy to oversteer & yaw easily. It's not something you will be willing to keep the brake pressure at 100% starting the entry phase with ABS turn the steering & the car still have response instead of just plowing straight. It's more about finding the right brake pressure to get the balance to not oversteer & yaw to quick.

I'm just pointing out that what you learn in racing game is not what trail braking should be.
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grid 2 UI system was horrible.dirt rally had it best of reccent games. simple works ! Dirt 3 wasnt great either. some things were actually hard to find through the menu system even after 100s of hrs of use.

just have a few boxes next screen after starting with the bare essentials. so many games make flashy ui yet it isnt user friendly.forget the looks.make it work as simple as possible in the least amount of clicks/time/effort . to do what you want.


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https://youtu.be/t-dN5wivBGo

Dakar 18 September 11th 2018 release date. 
Graphics are ok but physics look bad.. But we have to watch some gameplay first..I would not bet my money on it though..
Yeah, I'm not expecting too much physics-wise. It's shaping up to be more of a navigational challenge rather than a sim. But that's OK, it's something different just like the Dakar is. 
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dgeesi0 said:
grid 2 UI system was horrible.dirt rally had it best of reccent games. simple works ! Dirt 3 wasnt great either. some things were actually hard to find through the menu system even after 100s of hrs of use.

just have a few boxes next screen after starting with the bare essentials. so many games make flashy ui yet it isnt user friendly.forget the looks.make it work as simple as possible in the least amount of clicks/time/effort . to do what you want.


I'd say having a pretty UI is a good thing. I don't see how Grid 2 and DiRT 3 have bad UIs, they're just regular UIs with transitions between menus. If something is hard to find, then the problem comes from the menu layout, not the stylized UI.
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no grid 2 could never get to where i wanted. or could but just not as simple as i wanted. thats the problem with most ui in modern games. often have to do 3 things extra just because it needs to be edgy or artistic. just make it work !

one button = wheel settings.
one button = graphics.
one button = sound.



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dgeesi0 lol the presentation of a menu has nothing to do with the gameplay
watch dirt 4 they put a simple menu i love the system of generating tracks but the gameplay is bad and stop talking about steering wheel settings and graphics. lower the return of force and vibrations and the rotation of the steering wheel to lose the real reaction of the car or increase the brightness and contrast to see in the dark as if it is made day .lol "huge joke"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLqN8-2u4MQ
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Not sure what to say about this, since these numbers have been debated before, but its interesting to see where the games fall in the PC Master Race side.

These are 'leaked' numbers from steams player base numbers:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/07/steam-data-leak-reveals-precise-player-count-for-thousands-of-games/

Thats the source, here are the parts that we are interested in:

TITLE          PLAYER ESTIMATE     STEAM APP ID
DiRT Rally    1,073,123                           310560
DiRT 4          270,550                              421020

That is quite an offset.  I never looked for D4 to fail or anything, but I am happy to see DR on top.
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gfRally I play dirt 4 and dirt rally. dirt 4 for the system of generated tracks and dirt rally for the gameplay but the 2 games are boring, not many countries and content personally I'm waiting V-rally 4, it will show me new countries  and for your stats me I know some players because the systems generated tracks are too difficult for them and yet for me there are not many blocks of turns and I want to be more new turn with more precision in the notes of co-driver

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JZStudios said:
MrDeap said:
PC gamers have such a bad taste in general. How can they buy Mad Max over METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN?

Yeah I'm a 100% PC gamer, but used to play all platform.
Mad Max and MGS are VERY different games though...
Mad Max is pretty enjoyable as well!

(though I still agree, as the MGS series is probably my favourite gaming franchise of all time) 
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  • Codemasters Staff
gfRally said:
Not sure what to say about this, since these numbers have been debated before, but its interesting to see where the games fall in the PC Master Race side.

These are 'leaked' numbers from steams player base numbers:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/07/steam-data-leak-reveals-precise-player-count-for-thousands-of-games/

Thats the source, here are the parts that we are interested in:

TITLE          PLAYER ESTIMATE     STEAM APP ID
DiRT Rally    1,073,123                           310560
DiRT 4          270,550                              421020

That is quite an offset.  I never looked for D4 to fail or anything, but I am happy to see DR on top.
Rally has had some free weekends, these will mean that the number of "players" is different to the number of "owners".  Take the numbers with some salt. 
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MrDeap said:
PC gamers have such a bad taste in general. How can they buy Mad Max over METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN?

Yeah I'm a 100% PC gamer, but used to play all platform.
So if somebody does not share your taste in games, they automatically have bad taste? I like this logic.

Man, how can you like metal snake solid. That is such a bad game. You have such poor taste.


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Accro2008 said:
@CMMcBabe

Meme is 31 characters too short
Alright, I'll be honest. I haven't played CMR 2.0 and as such have zero nostalgia for it and...
That box art and it's entire underlying menu system based off of an ugly single color is awful. I don't know why you all like it so much.
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JZStudios said:
Accro2008 said:
@CMMcBabe

Meme is 31 characters too short
Alright, I'll be honest. I haven't played CMR 2.0 and as such have zero nostalgia for it and...
That box art and it's entire underlying menu system based off of an ugly single color is awful. I don't know why you all like it so much.
#BecauseNostalgia
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JZStudios said:
Accro2008 said:
@CMMcBabe

Meme is 31 characters too short
Alright, I'll be honest. I haven't played CMR 2.0 and as such have zero nostalgia for it and...
That box art and it's entire underlying menu system based off of an ugly single color is awful. I don't know why you all like it so much.
*This* close to reporting this :P
CMR2.0 is an absolute masterpiece of its time. Still play it on occasion. 
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Not at all DiRTy Gossip, but The Hoonigans uploaded this to their channel yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9v3-DMFyIs

Not as much technical detail as I would like, but still quite a good look around the M-Sport built "RX43" rallycross Fiesta, as used by Block in the GRC and for various gymkhana clips. 

Seeing the car used in such an enclosed space gives you a pretty good idea just how rapid and capable they are. 
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edgenz said:
JZStudios said:
Accro2008 said:
@CMMcBabe

Meme is 31 characters too short
Alright, I'll be honest. I haven't played CMR 2.0 and as such have zero nostalgia for it and...
That box art and it's entire underlying menu system based off of an ugly single color is awful. I don't know why you all like it so much.
*This* close to reporting this :P
CMR2.0 is an absolute masterpiece of its time. Still play it on occasion. 
I hope you guys aren't driving cars too often, being pretty blind and all. :D
Or am I the almost blind one who's seeing Dirt Rally 2.0 instead of CMR2.0.
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I loved both Colin McRae 1 and 2 in PS1 but i could not even play these days and the later Colin McRae even half minute , we are in 2018 and :| i want good graphics , physics , immersion , online  , the river as well the life never goes back but only ahead...
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edgenz said:
CMR2.0 is an absolute masterpiece of its time. Still play it on occasion. 
Last rally game I remember with actual thunderstorms in it.
It might be a fantastic game, but it's box art and menu system are terrible.
It's like I "made" a website for our shop and I had to convince my mom and dad that a colored background was a bad idea.
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JZStudios said:
edgenz said:
CMR2.0 is an absolute masterpiece of its time. Still play it on occasion. 
Last rally game I remember with actual thunderstorms in it.
It might be a fantastic game, but it's box art and menu system are terrible.
It's like I "made" a website for our shop and I had to convince my mom and dad that a colored background was a bad idea.
I understand we all have different taste but I think "terrible" is a little harsh. By today's standards, sure.
Remembering this launched back in 2000, with a resolution of 480i to work with... 


I know what I prefer...
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It's clean, I'll give it that. But so is an operating room and I don't want to stare at that for 40 hours.
I mean... the V-rally isn't that bad actually. Just some ugly fonts, icons, and a weird slant with a blue filtered background image.
I really hope this devolves into a 15 page discussion about game menu designs. Honestly it's super important and not nearly enough thought goes into it.

I think Horizon Zero Dawns in game menus are pretty trash.


For a game boasting GORGEOUS visuals, and Aloy having a hologram thing on her head, why is the in game menu this boring static gradient image with some music? Why not just take the same information and overlay it using her hologram thing in world? Every time you open the menu or the map it just sucks the immersion out entirely.

I like the Dirt 4 pre-race menu, it's got a nice live background, (kinda like Dirt 2.... jus sayin... cuz it was cool) but it's still easy to navigate and get's you in the mood of things. I do kind of feel like they could've made it more Dirt 2 like and start the game in a trailer, motel, hotel, tent, whatever, then "travel" to the location to get the same pre-race menu.
There's a lot of super boring menu systems out there with seemingly very little thought put into them. I HATED DiRT 1 and 3's floating boxes on white. It's so... boring and lifeless, and way too sterile for a game called DiRT.

*Edit This is what the HZD in game menu should be.

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please no. its not looks you want. its functionality !!!!

that dead space pic has my rage building. Dirt 2 ui was one of the worst ever made by codemasters. what am i even hearing. :#

still dont get why you think dirt 4s is a great system either.

you shouldnt be looking at a system for long if it works clincal as you will already be in game with such a great working system !

dont get why everything has to be 3d flashy over the top. make it the exact opposite and work.many older games did this . you could argue they were limited but by limited it becomes actually better as you do the best of what you can on a limited basis . so it isnt overly done.

also looking at the colin mcrae 2.0 screen and how easy that would be to use with a wheel is perfect.minimum effect no fuss.

function over looks.


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DiRT 2 looked smart, but it was slow. DiRT 4 (and CMR 2.0) menus are simple and fluid. I don't really care if the menu looks flash, I bought the game to drive, not look at convoluted menus! 

DiRT 4 nailed it for me, as the main menus are simple and you get to see the car/paddock in the screen prior to going racing. 
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dirt 2 in caravan do i go left right or out the caravan then windows live pop up sign in go out side find right car or go to options. just no.

didnt like it actually put me off playing it.

as you say you want to play the game not mess about in menus.
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I think the functionality of DiRT2 was pretty bad, but the backdrop was excellent. The opposite could be said regarding DiRT4 one can only look at an R5 fiesta with the same looping song for so long. If they were to combine the two it would really be something great. Have easy navigation but also have insight in a rally paddoc while their at it. Dirt4’s repair screen would be something in that direction 
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dgeesi0 said:
please no. its not looks you want. its functionality !!!!

that dead space pic has my rage building. Dirt 2 ui was one of the worst ever made by codemasters. what am i even hearing. :#

still dont get why you think dirt 4s is a great system either.

you shouldnt be looking at a system for long if it works clincal as you will already be in game with such a great working system !

dont get why everything has to be 3d flashy over the top. make it the exact opposite and work.many older games did this . you could argue they were limited but by limited it becomes actually better as you do the best of what you can on a limited basis . so it isnt overly done.

also looking at the colin mcrae 2.0 screen and how easy that would be to use with a wheel is perfect.minimum effect no fuss.

function over looks.


Obviously you haven't played Dead Space. That in game menu works perfectly, and there's zero reason it would be slow or cumbersome. It's grid based.
Dirt 1 and 3 had completely plain menu systems and it was still slow and sucked to try and navigate.

You're REALLY missing the point. I'm not asking for form over function, I'm asking for form AND function.
Dirt 2's menu was a neat idea and I can't figure out how to tell you for the hundredth time that they did it in a poor and ineffective way that was slow and cumbersome. There's no reason that they couldn't take a similar approach but also speed up or just remove transitions altogether. The entire point of video games is to immerse you in something. A boring static image with a menu that still isn't great (HZD, DiRT1, DiRT 3, DiRT Rally, RBR, etc.) takes you out of the immersion and still has a crap menu.

They could put the main menu at a desk with a bunch of papers on it, and on the papers would be the menu options. Fast, snappy, more than a boring menu image, and when you select a race you can leave and travel to the location. It would add NOTHING to it being cumbersome since it loads anyway. I still kind of like Dirt 2's snapshot and zoomout to a world map while it was loading.

You could also look at Naughty Dogs The Last of Us and Uncharted series.



Wow. Something to help get you immersed, that's generally regarded as some of the best opening menus, full 3D scene, and woo! It's SO clunky and unusable.
A static menu system that instantly transitions? Uses only a vertical grid based system instead of a bunch of random squares and tiles and floating text everywhere? THIS GAME SUCKS! How can anyone traverse these?

Maybe the in game menus could be less annoying.


Oh, NO! it's a real time menu that's grid based and super smooth and fluid and easy to navigate? HOW DARE THEY!

(Also, Dead Space at release was highly praised by... everyone for having an amazingly simple, immersive, real time menu and HUD system UI that doesn't take up too much screen space for ugly things.)

As far as flash goes, there's Persona 5 as well with super quick and snappy menus

I played that game for over 100 hours and never once thought it was a bad, clumsy, clunky, slow, menu system/
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Meanwhile, in Forza Horizon 4, guess what's making an appearance?


Image taken by GTPlanet user TheAdmiester, from the most recent stream from Playground Games.
Guess who else is making an appearance? Some weird DBag hipsters in skinny jeans! I think people should start a petition to make games just put in a normal looking dude with normal hair and normal clothes.
https://youtu.be/AYL3_mmcEHY


...also take a look at the cluttered tile menu where things don't really align so you can't actually just go to what you want directly.
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JZStudios said:
Meanwhile, in Forza Horizon 4, guess what's making an appearance?


Image taken by GTPlanet user TheAdmiester, from the most recent stream from Playground Games.
Guess who else is making an appearance? Some weird DBag hipsters in skinny jeans! I think people should start a petition to make games just put in a normal looking dude with normal hair and normal clothes.
https://youtu.be/AYL3_mmcEHY


...also take a look at the cluttered tile menu where things don't really align so you can't actually just go to what you want directly.
Jeez, that escalated quickly! I didn't post that picture to promote FH4 or to imply FH4 was better, or anything of the sort. I was just pointing out some cool rally cars in other games that, maybe, we'll end up seeing in DiRT. Like when someone pointed out the Citroen C3 in The Crew 2.

No need to get defensive and aggressive about it.

EDIT: Although I do agree about the chicken suits. They are ridiculous. But there is plenty of normal attire as well.
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JZStudios said:
Meanwhile, in Forza Horizon 4, guess what's making an appearance?


Image taken by GTPlanet user TheAdmiester, from the most recent stream from Playground Games.
Guess who else is making an appearance? Some weird DBag hipsters in skinny jeans! I think people should start a petition to make games just put in a normal looking dude with normal hair and normal clothes.
https://youtu.be/AYL3_mmcEHY


...also take a look at the cluttered tile menu where things don't really align so you can't actually just go to what you want directly.
Jeez, that escalated quickly! I didn't post that picture to promote FH4 or to imply FH4 was better, or anything of the sort. I was just pointing out some cool rally cars in other games that, maybe, we'll end up seeing in DiRT. Like when someone pointed out the Citroen C3 in The Crew 2.

No need to get defensive and aggressive about it.

EDIT: Although I do agree about the chicken suits. They are ridiculous. But there is plenty of normal attire as well.
Ehhh, I mean Forza also had Porsche when no one else did. And I think GT has Toyotas. Although there was a year that Forza inexplicably had no Volkswagens, even though it was just like... the Rabbit and an old Beetle.

I mean, hey, at least Dirt doesn't have you driving around looking like that. The chicken suits are "fun" and cooky, but I didn't see many "normal" attire. A lot of skinny jeans, skirts, loafers, smoking jackets, fake mustaches... The default guy though just looks... like a Dbag. The Crew 2 is copying it pretty hard too.
I drove a car in real life dressed as a chicken once. You get noticed!
I wore a cow suit to high school for no particular reason. Never on Halloween though.
Still won't ever wear skinny jeans and an ascot with a bellybutton shirt though.
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didnt play dead space i still have the day 1 purchase of the retail copy on my desk :p

sorry but the menu system and immersion is just a waste to me. the immersion starts when im racing / rallying . not when im in a menu trying to find for ten minutes the buttons i want to use. the quicker it is to get in game the more fun you will have . unless they putting tetris in while you swap your options around.

to me some of the games you suggest that had bad UI are the better ones. dirt rally click click rallying.enough of what i need to see in. Dirt 4 was not great still stuff i think where is it after hundreds of hrs of playing it.
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Although I really liked DiRT2 and didn't mind getting around in it.  I understand some people not wanting to see that come back.  

I don't mind a simple and easy menu system, however I do like immersion, just keep it in the background.  For example, D4 did a pretty good job of the immersion part, lot of places to improve still, but I think it was a good attempt.  Where D4 failed is when you went any deeper from the top-tier menu options.  It just got too lost and wasn't very intuitive or clearly directed.  

I think there can be a balance struck that we could get a pretty quick in/out menu system and still have a good bit of immersion.
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I feel like the immersion value is very dependent on what you want to be immersed in. if it's 'driving a rally car' I agree the immersion starts when you actually drive. But if it's 'being a Rally driver' I think there needs more content to it. It's something I'm really missing from many racing games lately. Too much focus on the former rather than the latter. I want to know the name of the rally, which teams employ which drivers and how they work with them. I want to know more about my opponents and what surfaces they are good at and which they are terrible at. 

While I know the most important part is the actual driving it isn't that much additional work to actually implement things like this. I mean DiRT4 had practically a lot of this but they never went that extra mile to implement it properly.
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My dream racing game.

Interactive gui, smartphone like, etc..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHikvKyeIC8

Ridge Racer Type 4 kind of like storyline. F1 series does it very well. It doesn't need to be like all 3D, just a storyboard would do the job just fine, could insert narration.
skip at 11:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAb6HjR7Bos

You know that kind of storyboard, story, included technique, line, inserting car diagram, physic theories, formula, etc...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiPCsBz81Gg

What annoy me the most is sparkling 3d font everywhere with blink blink background that blind you, piss color & only show the corner of the car like if you're not allowed to drive it. 
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