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Jepsertti said:
gfRally said:
electric?????????????   Anything Rally should not contain a electric power plant.  Electric cars will completely lose my interest in the sport.
I'm with you on that one. Rally cars should make noise - the louder the better, not buzz around like insects in heat.
Exactly. The sound of a rally car is something special. As an example the Escort fanatics we have on this forum who share their memories about the sound of a BDA echoing in the forests back in 70's... I just can't imagine that in future people are telling stories about how someone's electric rally car was hissing in a forest  :|

I like variety. I grew up on stories of V16 BRMs and CanAm McLarens, but also of weird things like the Howmet and Rover turbine cars. The Audi diesels at Le Mans were fascinating to me, because they were competing with V12 Aston Martins.

Whilst I'm not a fan of the strict engine regs in modern rallying classes, I like how different the Ford and Peugeot R5 cars are today and it wouldn't offend me if one particular model was silent. However, a field of them would be immeasurably dull.

Also, silent rally cars would be incredibly dangerous. The only time I've felt scared at a rally was a near silent Land Rover course car flying round a corner near me. Electric cars could also be dangerous in the case of accidents, in the context of fans getting involved (although I'm happy to admit I'm no expert in this and if organisers told me otherwise I'd bow to their knowledge). Obviously, this doesn't necessarily affect rallycross, but that holds no interest to me!
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Jepsertti said:
gfRally said:
electric?????????????   Anything Rally should not contain a electric power plant.  Electric cars will completely lose my interest in the sport.
I'm with you on that one. Rally cars should make noise - the louder the better, not buzz around like insects in heat.
Exactly. The sound of a rally car is something special. As an example the Escort fanatics we have on this forum who share their memories about the sound of a BDA echoing in the forests back in 70's... I just can't imagine that in future people are telling stories about how someone's electric rally car was hissing in a forest  :|

I like variety. I grew up on stories of V16 BRMs and CanAm McLarens, but also of weird things like the Howmet and Rover turbine cars. The Audi diesels at Le Mans were fascinating to me, because they were competing with V12 Aston Martins.

Whilst I'm not a fan of the strict engine regs in modern rallying classes, I like how different the Ford and Peugeot R5 cars are today and it wouldn't offend me if one particular model was silent. However, a field of them would be immeasurably dull.

Also, silent rally cars would be incredibly dangerous. The only time I've felt scared at a rally was a near silent Land Rover course car flying round a corner near me. Electric cars could also be dangerous in the case of accidents, in the context of fans getting involved (although I'm happy to admit I'm no expert in this and if organisers told me otherwise I'd bow to their knowledge). Obviously, this doesn't necessarily affect rallycross, but that holds no interest to me!
That's actually a good point in the safety part. Along with that the danger of horrible fires would be quite high considering how many batteries are in them. Just try puncturing a phone battery and see the fire works. Same reason whenever you get anything shipped to you with batteries there are a crapload of warning labels on the side of the box saying beware if the box is damaged. Now imagine a car with the equivalent of thousands upon thousands of those batteries getting damaged. Won't go up quite as fast as the old group b cars with the fuel tank right next to the engine and turbo but still I would imagine the danger of fire would be quite a bit higher than what we have in modern rally and rallycross cars.
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tbtstt said:
JZStudios said:
Working with electric motors a fair amount, they're not a great sound. The whole track would either be the sound of a cat fart or a high pitched whine.
Yeah, the absence of sound is what concerns me most @JZStudios. The technology seems very appropriate for rallycross but (to me anyway) ,a significant portion of the spectacle of rallycross comes from sound, especially in the case of the Supercars.

Electric Supercars would likely be as quick, but I don't think it will be as spectacular without the pops, bangs and turbo flutter. 
It'd have to be like that electric BMW that pumps v8 sounds through the internal speakers.
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Scyy said:
Jepsertti said:
gfRally said:
electric?????????????   Anything Rally should not contain a electric power plant.  Electric cars will completely lose my interest in the sport.
I'm with you on that one. Rally cars should make noise - the louder the better, not buzz around like insects in heat.
Exactly. The sound of a rally car is something special. As an example the Escort fanatics we have on this forum who share their memories about the sound of a BDA echoing in the forests back in 70's... I just can't imagine that in future people are telling stories about how someone's electric rally car was hissing in a forest  :|

I like variety. I grew up on stories of V16 BRMs and CanAm McLarens, but also of weird things like the Howmet and Rover turbine cars. The Audi diesels at Le Mans were fascinating to me, because they were competing with V12 Aston Martins.

Whilst I'm not a fan of the strict engine regs in modern rallying classes, I like how different the Ford and Peugeot R5 cars are today and it wouldn't offend me if one particular model was silent. However, a field of them would be immeasurably dull.

Also, silent rally cars would be incredibly dangerous. The only time I've felt scared at a rally was a near silent Land Rover course car flying round a corner near me. Electric cars could also be dangerous in the case of accidents, in the context of fans getting involved (although I'm happy to admit I'm no expert in this and if organisers told me otherwise I'd bow to their knowledge). Obviously, this doesn't necessarily affect rallycross, but that holds no interest to me!
That's actually a good point in the safety part. Along with that the danger of horrible fires would be quite high considering how many batteries are in them. Just try puncturing a phone battery and see the fire works. Same reason whenever you get anything shipped to you with batteries there are a crapload of warning labels on the side of the box saying beware if the box is damaged. Now imagine a car with the equivalent of thousands upon thousands of those batteries getting damaged. Won't go up quite as fast as the old group b cars with the fuel tank right next to the engine and turbo but still I would imagine the danger of fire would be quite a bit higher than what we have in modern rally and rallycross cars.
Hmmm... there are a few safety devices/bags and things you can put the battery in, but yeah, risk of 3000 degree fire is always there. Again, we do stuff with electric motors and we charge batteries in a ceramic plant pot just in case.
Stripping the sound out kind of reminds of a gun video, since I'm Americanese and can do that sort of thing. The guy was making fun of restrictions and how in the future instead of reviewing real guns he'd have to do airsoft, and how dumb it would be.
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What might be interesting though is a combination of a petrol and electric motor, like the Mclaren P1 has.
That way they can use the electric motor inbetween stages and use both motors on the stages itself which will increase the amount of horse power.
That might be where the future is heading once the technology is a bit further along (extended range on the electric motor) and cheaper.
I wouldn't mind that. I'm actually looking forward to something like that. Wouldn't you?
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What might be interesting though is a combination of a petrol and electric motor, like the Mclaren P1 has.
That way they can use the electric motor inbetween stages and use both motors on the stages itself which will increase the amount of horse power.
That might be where the future is heading once the technology is a bit further along (extended range on the electric motor) and cheaper.
I wouldn't mind that. I'm actually looking forward to something like that. Wouldn't you?
I have no problem with the hybrids, but I'm not sure how well they'd work for RX. The performance hybrids use the electric motors for instant acceleration and speed through shifting, both of which are VERY minimal on RX cars. I bet it would work, but I don't know how much improvement it would have when they're already doing 0-60 in under 3 seconds.
The other thing is (Not really a problem for RX) batteries are SUPER heavy. For RX, being a sprint race they could get away with just a few batteries, but moving forward/into other motorsports the majority of weight would start to transfer over to batteries. There's also the problem of running them at 100% 90% of the time, which would drain them pretty quick. Active braking would help keep them charged for a bit, but I'm not sure how well something like an enduro race would hold up. Going into full electric... it'd have to have supercells to charge quickly enough in the pits... although I suppose a 13 hour pitstop in the middle of the race could be fun too. Supercells also tend to drain quicker than standard batteries, and I think they're shelf life is shorter. Not sure how much that means to a racing division though.

Again, doing a lot with electric motors, we'll have to wait and see how batteries improve. It'll eventually get to the point where it supercharges in a few seconds and lasts near forever, but where it's at now it's hard to get more than 40 minutes of flight time with a decent sized drone.
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Dytut said:
I'm all for electric cars. It's the future, and it'd be damn cool to see one developed that could rival petrol in performance. 
I don't thin electric cars are the future... at least not with the inconvenience of batteries and the enviromental damage during battery-production (Li-Ion-Bats). 
Fuel Cells, maybe, but it would require a new hydrogen supply network for everybody...

No. Honestly I believe the long term solution would be to keep hydrocarbonides (fuel) as our energy storage but change production from fossil-extraction to growing, preferable in the form of algae instead of crops to save valuable fertile land for food.

So, I think, at least until/if we can create compact nuclear-fusion cells for cars, the internal combustion engine will stay with us even if/when the fossil fuels run out. I have no fear of endurance-motorsport like rallies ever going all electric. 
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JZStudios said:
What might be interesting though is a combination of a petrol and electric motor, like the Mclaren P1 has.
That way they can use the electric motor inbetween stages and use both motors on the stages itself which will increase the amount of horse power.
That might be where the future is heading once the technology is a bit further along (extended range on the electric motor) and cheaper.
I wouldn't mind that. I'm actually looking forward to something like that. Wouldn't you?
I have no problem with the hybrids, but I'm not sure how well they'd work for RX. The performance hybrids use the electric motors for instant acceleration and speed through shifting, both of which are VERY minimal on RX cars. I bet it would work, but I don't know how much improvement it would have when they're already doing 0-60 in under 3 seconds.
The other thing is (Not really a problem for RX) batteries are SUPER heavy. For RX, being a sprint race they could get away with just a few batteries, but moving forward/into other motorsports the majority of weight would start to transfer over to batteries. There's also the problem of running them at 100% 90% of the time, which would drain them pretty quick. Active braking would help keep them charged for a bit, but I'm not sure how well something like an enduro race would hold up. Going into full electric... it'd have to have supercells to charge quickly enough in the pits... although I suppose a 13 hour pitstop in the middle of the race could be fun too. Supercells also tend to drain quicker than standard batteries, and I think they're shelf life is shorter. Not sure how much that means to a racing division though.

Again, doing a lot with electric motors, we'll have to wait and see how batteries improve. It'll eventually get to the point where it supercharges in a few seconds and lasts near forever, but where it's at now it's hard to get more than 40 minutes of flight time with a decent sized drone.
I should've been more clear that my post was more directed towards rally rather than RX. 
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JZStudios said:
when they're already doing 0-60 in under 3 seconds.
Actually it's under 2 seconds. But who's counting anyway, eh? xD
Under 2 is still technically under 3, so I'm not wrong. :p
SkyRex said:
Dytut said:
I'm all for electric cars. It's the future, and it'd be damn cool to see one developed that could rival petrol in performance. 
I don't thin electric cars are the future... at least not with the inconvenience of batteries and the enviromental damage during battery-production (Li-Ion-Bats). 
Fuel Cells, maybe, but it would require a new hydrogen supply network for everybody...

No. Honestly I believe the long term solution would be to keep hydrocarbonides (fuel) as our energy storage but change production from fossil-extraction to growing, preferable in the form of algae instead of crops to save valuable fertile land for food.

So, I think, at least until/if we can create compact nuclear-fusion cells for cars, the internal combustion engine will stay with us even if/when the fossil fuels run out. I have no fear of endurance-motorsport like rallies ever going all electric. 
I haven't done a whole lot of research into fuel cells, but it seems like that may actually be the best option, but then people would complain about the harmful H20 greenhouse gases being exhausted. Apparently putting children in poisonous lithium mines in Africa makes them feel warm and snuggly though.

I'm not sure hybrids really work into rally to be honest. A lot of people think Rally is about the individual drivers skill. The only benefits from hybrids are faster starts, which are already pretty quick, and shift changes. I suppose I'm not opposed, but I don't see it necessarily being a big improvement on what's there.
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I did today in Dirt Rally. online events The daily live and Delta time.. 
i did first time used Mini and Seat and noticed  they both use digital speedo in Cockpit view. as I use km/h (kph). Cars are shown only in mph even they both LHD. is it posible to change that in Dirt4 or is that something to do with licence for the cars (to shown only mph)?
@KickUp
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The good thing about high performance electric motors, they can deliver a butt-tonne of torque instantly to the wheels. Look at the acceleration on the Tesla Model S, a saloon car that can do 0-60 in 2.28 seconds. To me that is astounding and its even wierder seeing a video of it making no noise whatsoever.

While I will always prefer the sound and smell and just general atmosphere of a combustion engine, electric motors have definitely gotten to stage of being really good, mainly due to Tesla (big fan of Musk)
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https://twitter.com/rallycameraman/status/846269360452841473

Only a few more days until my next rally! Unfortunately Paul won't be sat in with me as he's swanning off to Barcelona for some Rallycross or something. I will be joined by fellow special stage cameraman and international co-driver Jamie Mactavish. Hoping to just reach the end of this event as it looks like a very challenging venue. 
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I like variety. I grew up on stories of V16 BRMs and CanAm McLarens, but also of weird things like the Howmet and Rover turbine cars. The Audi diesels at Le Mans were fascinating to me, because they were competing with V12 Aston Martins.
CanAm McLarens (and CanAm cars in general) have to rank among the greatest sounding cars to ever take to the track.

The Audi diesels are a great comparison, it was surreal to see them at Le Mans as they were unbelievably fast, but almost completely silent. I prefer the later LMP Hybrids, as at least you get some engine noise with them.


Also, silent rally cars would be incredibly dangerous. The only time I've felt scared at a rally was a near silent Land Rover course car flying round a corner near me. Electric cars could also be dangerous in the case of accidents, in the context of fans getting involved (although I'm happy to admit I'm no expert in this and if organisers told me otherwise I'd bow to their knowledge). Obviously, this doesn't necessarily affect rallycross, but that holds no interest to me!
Yeah, I honestly don't see how fully electric could be implemented in a rally car, as range would surely be an issue. Hybrids are pretty interesting idea though as, if the technology were to be implemented in a similar fashion to something like the McLaren P1, electric power could be used for torque filling. That would quite likely reduce (or even eliminate) the need for anti-lag though: so that would be a bad thing!  

And for anyone who is questioning performance, here is the STARD Hiper, the Worlds first electric rallycross car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5844VCjRpv0

Impossible to put exact figures on its performance from a video alone, but it certainly doesn't look slow!
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https://twitter.com/rallycameraman/status/846269360452841473

Only a few more days until my next rally! Unfortunately Paul won't be sat in with me as he's swanning off to Barcelona for some Rallycross or something. I will be joined by fellow special stage cameraman and international co-driver Jamie Mactavish. Hoping to just reach the end of this event as it looks like a very challenging venue. 
Don't let him dirty the seat!
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tbtstt said:


I like variety. I grew up on stories of V16 BRMs and CanAm McLarens, but also of weird things like the Howmet and Rover turbine cars. The Audi diesels at Le Mans were fascinating to me, because they were competing with V12 Aston Martins.
CanAm McLarens (and CanAm cars in general) have to rank among the greatest sounding cars to ever take to the track.

An M8F is the only car in thirty years that has made me put my hands on my ears at a motorsport event, as it reverberated around the grandstand at Spa Classic a few years ago.
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tbtstt said:


I like variety. I grew up on stories of V16 BRMs and CanAm McLarens, but also of weird things like the Howmet and Rover turbine cars. The Audi diesels at Le Mans were fascinating to me, because they were competing with V12 Aston Martins.
CanAm McLarens (and CanAm cars in general) have to rank among the greatest sounding cars to ever take to the track.

An M8F is the only car in thirty years that has made me put my hands on my ears at a motorsport event, as it reverberated around the grandstand at Spa Classic a few years ago.
It's criminal how little raw footage there is of the Can-Am series. I can't imagine how good those races must have sounded!
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I did today in Dirt Rally. online events The daily live and Delta time.. 
i did first time used Mini and Seat and noticed  they both use digital speedo in Cockpit view. as I use km/h (kph). Cars are shown only in mph even they both LHD. is it posible to change that in Dirt4 or is that something to do with licence for the cars (to shown only mph)?
@KickUp
Sadly not. The dials used in the interior are modelled based on the research photography. As a result they can't change like the on screen display version. 
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https://twitter.com/rallycameraman/status/846269360452841473

Only a few more days until my next rally! Unfortunately Paul won't be sat in with me as he's swanning off to Barcelona for some Rallycross or something. I will be joined by fellow special stage cameraman and international co-driver Jamie Mactavish. Hoping to just reach the end of this event as it looks like a very challenging venue. 
Good luck! I'm hoping to make the finish of my second event this year next weekend!
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