Jump to content Jump to content
Message added by PJTierney,

Did you know that the long-time members of this thread have had a DiRTy Gossip Discord server for a while?

You do now 😉 

 

 

Recommended Posts



dgeesi0 said:





dwkGravey said:



Why don't dg and Ryu get together and prototype a proof of concept? Development is always "not that hard" on this side of the keyboard. :lol:



so easy to mock when all we want is a legit rally leaderboard.some of us go for those times its 90 percent of why we play it so much.

" if you truly care so much about this issue the only way to go is console " nope.thats just avoiding the issue at hand.also making playing experience worse because someone else cheats and the problem isnt being dealt with.

@KickUp that is **** about the vac banning. i can imagine trying to get the go ahead to do so then it backfiring like that must of been frustrating.didnt want to seem like a **** about this but when you launch dirt see on one track alone over 30 cheaters for one car set with unbeatable times what should i say ? its fine.

i have sent hundreds of pics to darren with dodgy times.most are still up or playing.there is about ten people in dirt rally who if try hard know what rough legit times can be achieved for each course.they are often within seconds of each other or even hundreds of a second.so when they 20/30 a minute plus just remove them.they arent removed.the players arent banned.

this is a discussion about dirt 4 and wanted to know if its better why ? because with your stage how many varations will there be ? millions its just gonna make policing even harder than what it is now. we have a small selection in dirt rally yet that cant be policed .







I meant to reply to this yesterday but I got swamped helping with fixes for submissions (we're nearly done!! :o )

The Vac Banning thing on DiRT Rally was a real f***er for us. We were literally ready to start flicking switches when we had the rug pulled on us. The new method of submitting trainers is a pretty laborious two week process but we're close to having something in place for DiRT 4 now. 

The problem with global leaderboards on DiRT Rally is that they are stored by platform holders. So if someone reports a dodgy time...there's no way I can validate it, as I don't have access to the data. The other problem was that I couldn't manually remove times myself. That's all done in a different office by someone with higher Steam privileges than me.

...the good news for DiRT 4 is, all of the leaderboards are stored on RaceNet, so I have direct access to every record from my own PC. Each record can only be posted if it contains valid ghost data, so we can be confident that it won't be a hacked time. 

Leaderboards are multi-platform, so everyone in the world can suffer the wrath of Porkhammer, but we have provided the option to see records from your own platform only if you wish.

To your point about millions of leaderboards to police @dgeesi0, you're right and that would be impossible. So, procedurally generated Stages will only have leaderboards in Dailies / Weeklies / Monthlies. The Global leaderboards you will be dominating are the ones featured in Career mode, of which there are 4000+.

Hope that all makes sense and sounds reasonable. I'll be around this thread more now that we've nearly finished the game, so let me know if you have any questions. 

Love,
The DiRT Fun Police
Link to post
Share on other sites

versedi said:

I'm talking about the visual damage here which you called "some mantra" and now you're spinning into direction of mechanical damage.
I'll be no longer continuing this discussion, it doesn't have any sense at all.


I'm not drifting out. I just pointed to the reason why (visual) damage is considered today as serious case.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hatward said:




dgeesi0 said:







dwkGravey said:




Why don't dg and Ryu get together and prototype a proof of concept? Development is always "not that hard" on this side of the keyboard. :lol:




so easy to mock when all we want is a legit rally leaderboard.some of us go for those times its 90 percent of why we play it so much.

" if you truly care so much about this issue the only way to go is console " nope.thats just avoiding the issue at hand.also making playing experience worse because someone else cheats and the problem isnt being dealt with.

@KickUp that is **** about the vac banning. i can imagine trying to get the go ahead to do so then it backfiring like that must of been frustrating.didnt want to seem like a **** about this but when you launch dirt see on one track alone over 30 cheaters for one car set with unbeatable times what should i say ? its fine.

i have sent hundreds of pics to darren with dodgy times.most are still up or playing.there is about ten people in dirt rally who if try hard know what rough legit times can be achieved for each course.they are often within seconds of each other or even hundreds of a second.so when they 20/30 a minute plus just remove them.they arent removed.the players arent banned.

this is a discussion about dirt 4 and wanted to know if its better why ? because with your stage how many varations will there be ? millions its just gonna make policing even harder than what it is now. we have a small selection in dirt rally yet that cant be policed .









I meant to reply to this yesterday but I got swamped helping with fixes for submissions (we're nearly done!! :o )

The Vac Banning thing on DiRT Rally was a real f***er for us. We were literally ready to start flicking switches when we had the rug pulled on us. The new method of submitting trainers is a pretty laborious two week process but we're close to having something in place for DiRT 4 now. 

The problem with global leaderboards on DiRT Rally is that they are stored by platform holders. So if someone reports a dodgy time...there's no way I can validate it, as I don't have access to the data. The other problem was that I couldn't manually remove times myself. That's all done in a different office by someone with higher Steam privileges than me.

...the good news for DiRT 4 is, all of the leaderboards are stored on RaceNet, so I have direct access to every record from my own PC. Each record can only be posted if it contains valid ghost data, so we can be confident that it won't be a hacked time. 

Leaderboards are multi-platform, so everyone in the world can suffer the wrath of Porkhammer, but we have provided the option to see records from your own platform only if you wish.

To your point about millions of leaderboards to police @dgeesi0, you're right and that would be impossible. So, procedurally generated Stages will only have leaderboards in Dailies / Weeklies / Monthlies. The Global leaderboards you will be dominating are the ones featured in Career mode, of which there are 4000+.

Hope that all makes sense and sounds reasonable. I'll be around this thread more now that we've nearly finished the game, so let me know if you have any questions. 

Love,
The DiRT Fun Police


Wow, 4000? I read 300 somewhere?

If you save a generated stage and share it with friends, will there be a private leaderboard to look at?
Link to post
Share on other sites

bogani said:



Hatward said:






dgeesi0 said:









dwkGravey said:





Why don't dg and Ryu get together and prototype a proof of concept? Development is always "not that hard" on this side of the keyboard. :lol:





so easy to mock when all we want is a legit rally leaderboard.some of us go for those times its 90 percent of why we play it so much.

" if you truly care so much about this issue the only way to go is console " nope.thats just avoiding the issue at hand.also making playing experience worse because someone else cheats and the problem isnt being dealt with.

@KickUp that is **** about the vac banning. i can imagine trying to get the go ahead to do so then it backfiring like that must of been frustrating.didnt want to seem like a **** about this but when you launch dirt see on one track alone over 30 cheaters for one car set with unbeatable times what should i say ? its fine.

i have sent hundreds of pics to darren with dodgy times.most are still up or playing.there is about ten people in dirt rally who if try hard know what rough legit times can be achieved for each course.they are often within seconds of each other or even hundreds of a second.so when they 20/30 a minute plus just remove them.they arent removed.the players arent banned.

this is a discussion about dirt 4 and wanted to know if its better why ? because with your stage how many varations will there be ? millions its just gonna make policing even harder than what it is now. we have a small selection in dirt rally yet that cant be policed .











I meant to reply to this yesterday but I got swamped helping with fixes for submissions (we're nearly done!! :o )

The Vac Banning thing on DiRT Rally was a real f***er for us. We were literally ready to start flicking switches when we had the rug pulled on us. The new method of submitting trainers is a pretty laborious two week process but we're close to having something in place for DiRT 4 now. 

The problem with global leaderboards on DiRT Rally is that they are stored by platform holders. So if someone reports a dodgy time...there's no way I can validate it, as I don't have access to the data. The other problem was that I couldn't manually remove times myself. That's all done in a different office by someone with higher Steam privileges than me.

...the good news for DiRT 4 is, all of the leaderboards are stored on RaceNet, so I have direct access to every record from my own PC. Each record can only be posted if it contains valid ghost data, so we can be confident that it won't be a hacked time. 

Leaderboards are multi-platform, so everyone in the world can suffer the wrath of Porkhammer, but we have provided the option to see records from your own platform only if you wish.

To your point about millions of leaderboards to police @dgeesi0, you're right and that would be impossible. So, procedurally generated Stages will only have leaderboards in Dailies / Weeklies / Monthlies. The Global leaderboards you will be dominating are the ones featured in Career mode, of which there are 4000+.

Hope that all makes sense and sounds reasonable. I'll be around this thread more now that we've nearly finished the game, so let me know if you have any questions. 

Love,
The DiRT Fun Police




Wow, 4000? I read 300 somewhere?

If you save a generated stage and share it with friends, will there be a private leaderboard to look at?


Yep the number of leaderboards is 300+ stages multiplied by the number of  Rally Vehicle Classes. :)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hatward said:




dgeesi0 said:







dwkGravey said:




Why don't dg and Ryu get together and prototype a proof of concept? Development is always "not that hard" on this side of the keyboard. :lol:




so easy to mock when all we want is a legit rally leaderboard.some of us go for those times its 90 percent of why we play it so much.

" if you truly care so much about this issue the only way to go is console " nope.thats just avoiding the issue at hand.also making playing experience worse because someone else cheats and the problem isnt being dealt with.

@KickUp that is **** about the vac banning. i can imagine trying to get the go ahead to do so then it backfiring like that must of been frustrating.didnt want to seem like a **** about this but when you launch dirt see on one track alone over 30 cheaters for one car set with unbeatable times what should i say ? its fine.

i have sent hundreds of pics to darren with dodgy times.most are still up or playing.there is about ten people in dirt rally who if try hard know what rough legit times can be achieved for each course.they are often within seconds of each other or even hundreds of a second.so when they 20/30 a minute plus just remove them.they arent removed.the players arent banned.

this is a discussion about dirt 4 and wanted to know if its better why ? because with your stage how many varations will there be ? millions its just gonna make policing even harder than what it is now. we have a small selection in dirt rally yet that cant be policed .









I meant to reply to this yesterday but I got swamped helping with fixes for submissions (we're nearly done!! :o )

The Vac Banning thing on DiRT Rally was a real f***er for us. We were literally ready to start flicking switches when we had the rug pulled on us. The new method of submitting trainers is a pretty laborious two week process but we're close to having something in place for DiRT 4 now. 

The problem with global leaderboards on DiRT Rally is that they are stored by platform holders. So if someone reports a dodgy time...there's no way I can validate it, as I don't have access to the data. The other problem was that I couldn't manually remove times myself. That's all done in a different office by someone with higher Steam privileges than me.

...the good news for DiRT 4 is, all of the leaderboards are stored on RaceNet, so I have direct access to every record from my own PC. Each record can only be posted if it contains valid ghost data, so we can be confident that it won't be a hacked time. 

Leaderboards are multi-platform, so everyone in the world can suffer the wrath of Porkhammer, but we have provided the option to see records from your own platform only if you wish.

To your point about millions of leaderboards to police @dgeesi0, you're right and that would be impossible. So, procedurally generated Stages will only have leaderboards in Dailies / Weeklies / Monthlies. The Global leaderboards you will be dominating are the ones featured in Career mode, of which there are 4000+.

Hope that all makes sense and sounds reasonable. I'll be around this thread more now that we've nearly finished the game, so let me know if you have any questions. 

Love,
The DiRT Fun Police


thank you @Hatward for your time to reply. i know you all busy or more than busy trying to get Dirt 4 ready for launch.sorry if my questioning was bordering on being a dick but it is very important to me and others who rally for those top times.you know this.

the steam thing with dirt rally does sound like a right chore. as @KickUp said two months of people to work on it only for it to be messed with must of been very infuriating.

its nice to hear you have a new system in place and that it is going to be better.the complete package seems to be coming together nicely.cant wait for june !
Link to post
Share on other sites
Slaps latest RX video seems to feature unfinished lighting effect just, so very 'alpha'.  I wouldnt imagine its a fair reflection of the finished build....

Glad to hear @Hatward is making progress with the Muppet-Patrol.  Every little helps!! :)


Link to post
Share on other sites
1. Am I correct - if we save a stage, there's no chance to compare times to friends on that particular stage without inviting them to some kind of custom, multiplayer event where we'd all participate?

2. Just curious, probably too technical so won't be answered. What's the size of data for one stage generated from Your Stage?
Link to post
Share on other sites

KickUp said:

bogani said:


Will 60 FPS be achievable in RX replays on console? Didn't look like it ran 60 in Slaps latest video. @KickUp

We are locking to 30fps in replays.


I very much welcome that. The replays in DR (rallycross) would occasionally drop below the 60fps target and look pretty jarring.
Link to post
Share on other sites


Hatward said:
 
...the good news for DiRT 4 is, all of the leaderboards are stored on RaceNet, so I have direct access to every record from my own PC. Each record can only be posted if it contains valid ghost data, so we can be confident that it won't be a hacked time.





Just had an idea to automatically catch 'some' of the trainers remaining. I imagine for optimal times some trainers are configured to play with the ideal inputs for the best time possible; I imagine that this might consist of digital and analouge inputs together and that would be a way to catch them.
If for example the Steering degree jumps in some corners from 0 to 140 in an instant, but is held on exactly 70 in other corners you can rule out both: Keyboard and steering wheel players. Steering wheel inputs can always be aproximated as a differentiable function as you always have to turn the wheel to the point. Keyboard inputs are always digital (The game might modulate the ingame steering slowly for playability but the game still receives digital inputs from a keyboard.)

So if you track and log the raw input data during play sessions, you might be able to filter out some results made by trainers via an algorithm analysing anomalies in the input-data-log. It won't catch all and I don't know if it's worth the effort, but just wanted to throw it in the room as inspiration.
Link to post
Share on other sites

SkyRex said:
Just had an idea to automatically catch 'some' of the trainers remaining. I imagine for optimal times some trainers are configured to play with the ideal inputs for the best time possible; I imagine that this might consist of digital and analouge inputs together and that would be a way to catch them.


Botting in racing games is pretty much non-existent, otherwise we would have a lot of times on the leaderboards that are exactly the same. On top of that you need to record a run first for the "bot" to do it, so you can only score times that are achievable. And then we have the whole issue of different setups. You can't drive a car exactly the same way with a different setup. Even the smallest of changes will completely annihilate a run.

This doesn't solve the issue at all. If the steering input would go instantly like that when not using the dampening effect found on keyboard, your run would probably be screwed hard, since I can't imagine physics would behave kindly when front wheels suddenly instantly changed their position (which naturally defies laws of physics).
Most of the trainers are things as simple as improve the performance (acceleration, downforce, cornering speed etc.) or teleport to a certain spot on the map and so on and so forth. They aren't sophisticated "drive for you" mechanisms -_-
Link to post
Share on other sites




SkyRex said:
Just had an idea to automatically catch 'some' of the trainers remaining. I imagine for optimal times some trainers are configured to play with the ideal inputs for the best time possible; I imagine that this might consist of digital and analouge inputs together and that would be a way to catch them.




Botting in racing games is pretty much non-existent, otherwise we would have a lot of times on the leaderboards that are exactly the same. On top of that you need to record a run first for the "bot" to do it, so you can only score times that are achievable. And then we have the whole issue of different setups. You can't drive a car exactly the same way with a different setup. Even the smallest of changes will completely annihilate a run.

This doesn't solve the issue at all. If the steering input would go instantly like that when not using the dampening effect found on keyboard, your run would probably be screwed hard, since I can't imagine physics would behave kindly when front wheels suddenly instantly changed their position (which naturally defies laws of physics).
Most of the trainers are things as simple as improve the performance (acceleration, downforce, cornering speed etc.) or teleport to a certain spot on the map and so on and so forth. They aren't sophisticated "drive for you" mechanisms -_-


Another way of cheating come in mind is intercepting (directly or indirectly) communication between client and server, and modifying data sent to the server.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rygar86 said:

tbtstt said:

Some good achievements in there, torn between The Inbetweeners and Days of Thunder references for my winner!  

Fringe DiRTy Gossip: spot the DiRT 4 decals at Lydden Hill last week...










I spotted 3, what do I win?   :p



I counted 3 and a half, so no prize for you! :smiley:
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...