Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

Dear Complainers and CM

Recommended Posts

If you're terribly disappointed then stop supporting CM. If you firmly believe your getting shafted then why would you support them? Granted they have given you some resolve but the reality is that it'll never be perfect because the expectations of users is so broad they can't allocate enough resources to include everything so just suck it up and play or don't.

Just put yourself in their shoes and think about the following situation:

We need more money.

It'll cost more $$ for next-gen development so we'll just use the existing code.

Tweak it just enough to justify a release.

Hopefully we'll make enough on this release to fund the next. At least some parts are transferable to next gen, hopefully the good parts.

Proper testing cost $. Might as well skip it.

We'll need more $ down the road. DLC anyone?

----

I feel most gamers don't do their due diligence when buying games and end up complaining on def ears. Those who are chronic complainers show persistence and for that I acknowledge your dedication if that's what you want to call it. But for those who want to take action, simply use your wallet and if your that lucky kid that doesn't have to use your own wallet then this still applies.

Here's what I've learned from the past years of buying games and being happy with the decision:

Don't believe the hype. That goes for reviews, commercials and the Internet posts most likely paid to the writer by the developer. The only exception is independent game developers because they take their time with their games, treat them like their own children and cost relatively low (sometimes free) because they just want people to play it and hopefully love it.

Always look into what developer and publisher are involved. A company's history is a good starting place and where they are headed is just as important.

Never buy on the first day of release. Show some patience and wait it out and see what rises to the top (mainly complaints). CM Forums is still in BETA! Does that not tell you something?

Be very critical of franchises. I rather wait 5 years for a great game than 1 year for a game that only improves a bit from the previous one. Taking risks is necessary in any business and I appreciate CM for doing so (Grid 2) but I was pretty shocked that they just didn't code for the next-gen systems and take their time with it.

Most multiplatform games can do only one mode (single or online) well. I rarely played a game that are praised for both equally so be realistic with your expectations and don't think your entitled to anything once you buy the game.

----

The culture of gaming has come a long way in my case since the floppy disk so I'm glad to see that gamers are more involved now than ever because the tools to be an active educated gamer/consumer are available. Props to the complainers that make developers and liasions like Loore workload that much more fun. I honestly think they look at some of these posts and say

"We'll we're already working on that.."

"What is this person talking about, they're soo stupid HAHA, Loore come look at this."

"They have no idea what they're talking about.."

"We'll if it's that easy then take my job, please..with extra cherries on top"

"I'm bookmarking this user. It's just so ridiculous and funny. I can't believe people like this" 

"Haha I know..what's their name? I'll save them too. Should get a laugh at the bar. When is everyone meeting?"

"Are we putting this in the next update?"

"If we have time but most likely not, might as well keep the thread going. Where did I put my phone, Have you seen it?!?"

Brilliant effort so far CM but remember try not to take your audience for granted too many times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um, CM is an indie. So you just kinda made an idiot of yourself with that post. So sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That depends on perspective. Paying more than $50 to me isn't considered indie. Try and be more mindful of the discussion. I think you completely missed the point GJ77

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indie developers are rarely given licences as prestigious as F1, let alone automotive manufacturers. Trolls...I love them :) I love you GJ77

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And this kids is a thread to complain about complainers.

And here ends your todays lesson boys. Dismiss and laugh hard 'till you are back home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dancan said:
Codemasters
Founded in 1986
Employees: 800


Those numbers definitely sound indie lol....

I don't think we have 800 people working here :)

Truth is, we are a lot smaller than people imagine but I guess it depends how you define Indie. We're not publisher owned so by that count we are indie, but in the very small team definition of Indie (Mojang, Facepunch etc) we're not. The likes of Ubisoft, EA etc all dwarf us, we're a small (ish) team in the British countryside, studios dotted across every continent we are not. 

Anyway...

We need more money - every game developer does, the moment there's no money left, games stop being made. This pretty much defines any business industry, if there's no money left, how can you compete? We love making games, we all play games, we're deeply passionate about it, but there's also that side of us that would like money, simply put, it allows to keep making games.

It'll cost more $$ for next-gen development so we'll just use the existing code - it's more about taking our time with a next-gen engine, rush it and we have to live with that consequence. How many times have you found yourself saying "I wish I could have weather in Autosport", the reason we can't is down to technical limits with the engine. You can guarantee if we had rushed next-gen with Autosport we'd have seen nothing but "just a cheap port" and other similar messages.

We took our time getting onto Xbox 360 and that turned out ok...

Tweak it just enough to justify a release - I wouldn't call it just a tweak, if all that hard work, late nights, weekends were just a tweak I'd hate to see what a non-tweak game looks like. Some code will carry over, it always does and any developer that says otherwise is lying but a tweak? Sorry, way off base with this one.

Hopefully we'll make enough on this release to fund the next. At least some parts are transferable to next gen, hopefully the good parts. - that's always the case with game development, your last game will always go towards funding the next. That's nothing new, same goes for movies and even books.

Proper testing cost $. Might as well skip it. - We've got a dedicated QA Team and we do test our games. Unfortunately it's the nature of software development that bugs occur and even those with an army for a QA department suffer from a few unwanted issues sliding through unnoticed. We are working hard to get console patches out.

We'll need more $ down the road. DLC anyone? - there's no denying that DLC makes money, but it's far from a license to print money that a lot of people think happens (maybe for some devs, but not for us). For one, factor in the cost of the DLC, it is expensive to build a car, it's very expensive to build a track, it starts looking like silly numbers when you throw in single player career additions, achievements, all the licensing, QA costs and all the other things involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Loore said:
We are working hard to get console patches out.

WTF!!! So it definately means there hasn't been any patch send to Sony???? You're still working on it? For weeks you're just screwing us, making us believe it is Sony that is delaying your virtual patch? (facepalm)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
berre said:
Loore said:
We are working hard to get console patches out.

WTF!!! So it definately means there hasn't been any patch send to Sony???? You're still working on it? For weeks you're just screwing us, making us believe it is Sony that is delaying your virtual patch? (facepalm)

Calm down, patch is in submission, we're working hard with Sony and Microsoft to get it out. An issue was found that required fixing, it was fixed and we're now just waiting for a release date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loore said:
dancan said:
Codemasters
Founded in 1986
Employees: 800


Those numbers definitely sound indie lol....

I don't think we have 800 people working here :)

Truth is, we are a lot smaller than people imagine but I guess it depends how you define Indie. We're not publisher owned so by that count we are indie, but in the very small team definition of Indie (Mojang, Facepunch etc) we're not. The likes of Ubisoft, EA etc all dwarf us, we're a small (ish) team in the British countryside, studios dotted across every continent we are not. 

I did visit Codemasters in Southam and it really amazed me that it was a small team, that makes some amazing games! Its an elite team that makes one of the finest racing games that exist!
I think we should give more respect to the guys over there... its outstanding what they achieve!

No other game producer would do it better!

Instead of keep complaining,.. start trying to do something,... buy their games, start to raise fundings for your codemasters games, donate some small amount and try to help them with testing or giving feedback,... also positive feedback!

I tried to do my little part for the new Codemasters rally game,
And yet it wasnt a cheap visit for me, since I flew for one day from the Netherlands to the UK to make a 5 hour visit max.
But u know it was really appreciated! And it gave me a much better inside view of Codemasters,...
 
Instead work against them try to work with them! It will be a win- win situation.
In the end money is needed to make a good game, take as example a VW Polo made by germans = more expensive then made by chinees , i am not saying chinees cant build cars, but there is a diffrense in price, technology and quality guess its the same for the game industrie.

And yes I did met @Loore and many other people they are all people with a racing heart and love for games,... there is even an arcade machine in the cantine....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ThierryNeuville‌ are you kidding?

An elite team? Outstanding, what they achieve? I really don't care how big or small a team is. A small team is no excuse for inferior quality.

We got a game that is full of bugs that make it impossible for many, to continue playing at all (corrupt saves). Bugs, that ruin everything you achieved (broken cars, cars down to lvl 1). Then there's countless half-baked features that either don't work properly or are simply poorly designed, so that they just make no sense (racenet issues with horrible AI, ridiculous and absolutely useless repair costs, fixed money/xp regardless of driven distance).

That is not even close to 'elite', that is 3rd-grade stuff, not worthy of releasing.

And what do you want us to do instead of complaining? Raise fundings? How and for what? Buy their games? Obviously we did that and got ripped off. We are giving tons of feedback. And it is positive feedback. True, some is very hostile written (and I'm one of them, cause I get angry when after 5 weeks a game which I paid for simply gets worse), but it is constructive. Bugs are reported, for features that are poorly designed, detailed explanations are given, why that is poor and how that could be done better. It couldn't be more positive feedback, regarding the current state of the game. 

But in response I have the feeling, we aren't understood properly. AI in racenet for example: Everyone complains, that it is too slow and nothing but driving walls in time trial. Response? "We'll do more time trial in the future." D'oh! That makes the problem even worse.

I'd be happy to give them my money, if they in return gave me a proper game, that is mostly bug free and smart designed. So why should we fund them in advance, donate or whatever? The problem is, that with CM you only know, that you'll get some racing game. But what it'll be in the end no one knows.

VW has the advantage of more R&D-resources, so they come up with more efficient and simply better technologies than some chinese companies. It is not that everyone here wants tons of new features that take ages to develop. It's simple things that just should be done in a reasonable way. It lacks of smart ideas, not of coding power, for most of the complains at least. And smart ideas shouldn't be a money issue, but more a 'how do persons work here' thing.

As said before, I guess no one would have a problem, when they simply reuse what's been good in the past, maybe optimize it and add a few features. But instead striking old features or replace/expand them with new ones, that don't add to the gaming experience and just waste money in development helps nobody. Money is wasted, customers get angry, trust in the company is broken, sales go down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indie is short for independent you morons.

@Loore @Photonik good posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've decided not to use the quote feature. In response to @Loore 

We need more money - every game developer does, the moment there's no money left, games stop being made. This pretty much defines any business industry, if there's no money left, how can you compete? We love making games, we all play games, we're deeply passionate about it, but there's also that side of us that would like money, simply put, it allows to keep making games.

We're all passionate about games too but to release GAS a bit over a year after Grid 2 with all the the feedback/criticisms received you must have figured out what people like and don't like. Simply ask yourself if you'd buy the game despite the issues. The corrupt saves is a game changer but you know that already.

It'll cost more $$ for next-gen development so we'll just use the existing code - it's more about taking our time with a next-gen engine, rush it and we have to live with that consequence. How many times have you found yourself saying "I wish I could have weather in Autosport", the reason we can't is down to technical limits with the engine. You can guarantee if we had rushed next-gen with Autosport we'd have seen nothing but "just a cheap port" and other similar messages.

We took our time getting onto Xbox 360 and that turned out ok...

You might be living with the consequences now which is a shame because the Grid series is really fun :) I'll be looking forward to seeing your games using engines not called EGO 3. The devil is in the details I suppose and if your saying the next Grid game has the capability of interactive weather then you've peak my interest. As a PSN user I know I'm at the back of the line with everything. Can't argue when your network is free.

Tweak it just enough to justify a release - I wouldn't call it just a tweak, if all that hard work, late nights, weekends were just a tweak I'd hate to see what a non-tweak game looks like. Some code will carry over, it always does and any developer that says otherwise is lying but a tweak? Sorry, way off base with this one.

Everyone has deadlines no matter what job it is and usually you set them yourselves. I code for a living so no sympathies here. If your not comfortable releasing something that carries your reputation on it then that's on you if it backfires. Many still buy and enjoy your games but will always remember GAS and for some Grid 2 for the wrong reasons. I still play Grid 2 and I don't know why people hate it that much :( resting on your laurels is something EA would do. Say it ain't so CM. 

Hopefully we'll make enough on this release to fund the next. At least some parts are transferable to next gen, hopefully the good parts. - that's always the case with game development, your last game will always go towards funding the next. That's nothing new, same goes for movies and even books.

Capitalism works :) I'm glad we agree on something.

Proper testing cost $. Might as well skip it. - We've got a dedicated QA Team and we do test our games. Unfortunately it's the nature of software development that bugs occur and even those with an army for a QA department suffer from a few unwanted issues sliding through unnoticed. We are working hard to get console patches out.

IMO you should fire your QA department and just outsource it to everyone on this forum. Problem solved! Unless everyone at CM doubles as QA?? Problem not solved :(

We'll need more $ down the road. DLC anyone? - there's no denying that DLC makes money, but it's far from a license to print money that a lot of people think happens (maybe for some devs, but not for us). For one, factor in the cost of the DLC, it is expensive to build a car, it's very expensive to build a track, it starts looking like silly numbers when you throw in single player career additions, achievements, all the licensing, QA costs and all the other things involved.

Everything has to be measured and justified when it comes down to $ so I understand if this last effort on the current generation fell short of user expectations. I've always questioned the decision to develop GAS when Grid 2 used the same engine but maybe the situation required you to release GAS to bank roll some other effort. No one wants to be left in the dark with updates when all they want to do is have fun but that's the reality.

I'm excited to play Grid 3 or whatever you call it and I strongly believe there will  market share for it to grow as long as some other developer doesn't beat you to it.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MTonly said:
Loore said:
How many times have you found yourself saying "I wish I could have weather in Autosport", the reason we can't is down to technical limits with the engine.
@Loore
DiRT and F1 series' games by Codies have weather (e.g. snow, rain), so the EGO engine is already capable of weather. Isn't it?
Loore said:
We are working hard to get console patches out.
Maybe stop getting scattered by releasing games for multiple platforms and focus on PC-only market instead? ;-)

1) Yes, but there are variants. For example F1 uses a variant of the engine, it's not all 100% identical

2) PC gamer in me wants me to reply but my boss reads these forums :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@dancan‌ 

We're all passionate about games too but to release GAS a bit over a year after Grid 2 with all the the feedback/criticisms received you must have figured out what people like and don't like. Simply ask yourself if you'd buy the game despite the issues. The corrupt saves is a game changer but you know that already.

I'm very proud of Autosport, I do believe it's a great game and I do think we achieved what we set out to do, return GRID back to its roots somewhat and deliver a game more in line with what our Community wanted. I won't argue that the corrupt save file isn't an issue and I appreciate how frustrating it is (my save corrupted as well!). I'd like to think we've got a good handle on what people do and don't like, after GRID 2 I spent hours, days, weeks analyzing everything - I still am now.

You might be living with the consequences now which is a shame because the Grid series is really fun  I'll be looking forward to seeing your games using engines not called EGO 3. The devil is in the details I suppose and if your saying the next Grid game has the capability of interactive weather then you've peak my interest. As a PSN user I know I'm at the back of the line with everything. Can't argue when your network is free.

Our next engine is currently being worked on, it's being built with 'next-gen' in mind. It's unlikely we'll see another GRID on old-gen so next time Ravenwest return they'll have some sparkly new tech behind them. PlayStation is important to us :)

Everyone has deadlines no matter what job it is and usually you set them yourselves. I code for a living so no sympathies here. If your not comfortable releasing something that carries your reputation on it then that's on you if it backfires. Many still buy and enjoy your games but will always remember GAS and for some Grid 2 for the wrong reasons. I still play Grid 2 and I don't know why people hate it that much  resting on your laurels is something EA would do. Say it ain't so CM. 

I'm hopeful that despite the issues around the patch on consoles there's enough in Autosport that people will like and carry forward.

IMO you should fire your QA department and just outsource it to everyone on this forum. Problem solved! Unless everyone at CM doubles as QA?? Problem not solved 

Our QA team do a great job, please don't belittle their efforts. If anyone is up for it http://blog.codemasters.com/careers/01/qa-technicians-southam/

Everything has to be measured and justified when it comes down to $ so I understand if this last effort on the current generation fell short of user expectations. I've always questioned the decision to develop GAS when Grid 2 used the same engine but maybe the situation required you to release GAS to bank roll some other effort. No one wants to be left in the dark with updates when all they want to do is have fun but that's the reality.

I'm excited to play Grid 3 or whatever you call it and I strongly believe there will  market share for it to grow as long as some other developer doesn't beat you to it.

We'll see you on the track in the future, I've no doubt on that :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MTonly said:
Loore said:
How many times have you found yourself saying "I wish I could have weather in Autosport", the reason we can't is down to technical limits with the engine.
@Loore
DiRT and F1 series' games by Codies have weather (e.g. snow, rain), so the EGO engine is already capable of weather. Isn't it?
Loore said:
We are working hard to get console patches out.
Maybe stop getting scattered by releasing games for multiple platforms and focus on PC-only market instead? ;-)

Ya because the pc market is what keeps codemasters going are you serious here ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only massive problem is the corrupt saves (thankfully that's never hit me) - that should have been given priority and a rush patch on consoles (the fix seemed to be out reasonably quickly on PC). That's the one area where I think CM really dropped the ball - though I don't know the financials behind rush patches on the consoles and maybe it was impossible. 

Apart from that I see no game-destroying bugs, or many bugs at all. The cash repairs are well out of balance and need addressing but as long as that happens reasonably quickly I don't see the problem. 

I enjoy the game a lot and have put far more time into it than I imagined. It's worth remembering that forums provide a focus for (rightly or wrongly) disgruntled customers and give the impression that any game is a broken mess. GAS is pretty far from being that and is possibly the best driving game on PC currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MTonly said:
Loore said:
MTonly said:
Maybe stop getting scattered by releasing games for multiple platforms and focus on PC-only market instead? ;-)

PC gamer in me wants me to reply but my boss reads these forums :P

@Loore‌ It would be nice to know exactly that your boss has read and considered the idea. ;-)

Seriously, consoles as a device category are unneeded, they are a dead-end road. PC is currently the greatest platform for home gaming, and tablets/smartphones are enough for portable gaming. Dedicated consoles are totally unneeded, they don't deserve efforts that could instead be spent to make PC versions of games much better (more tracks, better graphics, less bugs, etc.). ;-)

U must be on crack. Consoles are what keeps gaming alive. PC is a very small market compared to the console market. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Photonik said:

@ThierryNeuville‌ are you kidding?

An elite team? Outstanding, what they achieve? I really don't care how big or small a team is. A small team is no excuse for inferior quality.

We got a game that is full of bugs that make it impossible for many, to continue playing at all (corrupt saves). Bugs, that ruin everything you achieved (broken cars, cars down to lvl 1). Then there's countless half-baked features that either don't work properly or are simply poorly designed, so that they just make no sense (racenet issues with horrible AI, ridiculous and absolutely useless repair costs, fixed money/xp regardless of driven distance).

That is not even close to 'elite', that is 3rd-grade stuff, not worthy of releasing.

And what do you want us to do instead of complaining? Raise fundings? How and for what? Buy their games? Obviously we did that and got ripped off. We are giving tons of feedback. And it is positive feedback. True, some is very hostile written (and I'm one of them, cause I get angry when after 5 weeks a game which I paid for simply gets worse), but it is constructive. Bugs are reported, for features that are poorly designed, detailed explanations are given, why that is poor and how that could be done better. It couldn't be more positive feedback, regarding the current state of the game. 

But in response I have the feeling, we aren't understood properly. AI in racenet for example: Everyone complains, that it is too slow and nothing but driving walls in time trial. Response? "We'll do more time trial in the future." D'oh! That makes the problem even worse.

I'd be happy to give them my money, if they in return gave me a proper game, that is mostly bug free and smart designed. So why should we fund them in advance, donate or whatever? The problem is, that with CM you only know, that you'll get some racing game. But what it'll be in the end no one knows.

VW has the advantage of more R&D-resources, so they come up with more efficient and simply better technologies than some chinese companies. It is not that everyone here wants tons of new features that take ages to develop. It's simple things that just should be done in a reasonable way. It lacks of smart ideas, not of coding power, for most of the complains at least. And smart ideas shouldn't be a money issue, but more a 'how do persons work here' thing.

As said before, I guess no one would have a problem, when they simply reuse what's been good in the past, maybe optimize it and add a few features. But instead striking old features or replace/expand them with new ones, that don't add to the gaming experience and just waste money in development helps nobody. Money is wasted, customers get angry, trust in the company is broken, sales go down.

First of all I have to admit that i did not played Autosport yet, didnt had the time duo work rallying etc to buy a copy and play it. So i wont argue with the Autosport part.

But that doesn't say that because of some small "problems" every thing was bad what they made/ achieved in the years before!.

Looking at the F1 serie, the Colin McRae Serie  and DiRT serie, those games where from high level!
U can not say that perfectly SIM is what they needed to achieve, in the end games are entertaiming , NOT SIMULATION, els they would have made games for the official teams so for example Kimi Raikonen could train out side the F1 car.
That doesnt mean it has to be fully arcade, since everyone wants to play like they where driving the F1 car,..

Well in that case Codemasters did a great job to find the right balance between SIM and ARCADE, its not fair to say their work was rubish because it isnt fully SIM.

At the level designing ( circuits, tracks, etc), Car design , sound, menu's, game play everything was also outstanding work. yet again u cant say that it was bad.
Those where all good quality stuff. And the fact that a small team produced this is outstanding and also an elite team! 

And if your feelings are not understood properly, try to make a apointment with @Loore or so and disgust these problems around a tabel, and show what u think is a problem, in that case its gclear for everyone and would it be easier to solve. I think for the problems with Autosport its clear and they are working hard to fix it.

About the focus on racing games by Codemasters i think its very clear : F1, Rally/Rallycross /Circuit /Off-road. so what kind of game.

About your VW example its exactly whats happing but in that case the opposite way.
Everyone wants to have tons of features,... dynamic weather, Simulation etc etc ,.. problem is because CM isnt that big, their is just simply no money and time for it when u create a game... they have so many other things to do to make a game! expection from most gamers is that they want every year a new game.

Looking at the rally game, D3 got released in 2011, now its 2014, 3 years... we do love to see a new rallygame,... but u dont hear us complain that much do u? I went to Southam and saw what they where working on.... and really they dont sit still and wait...

I think its also not a bad idea as u said before to reuse whats been good in the past.
But the fact is,..  if u want to build your woden tower higher, u have to start from sketch again and take a diffrent approuch...
I think Codemasters is doing that in the right direction and the next towers ( games) will be bigger better and stronger!

I do have a lot of respect for Codemasters and their employees for what the created through all these years!
Even football players have "Off-years" and perhaps some games where, but i know for sure that they will be only better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@ThierryNeuville‌ 
I never demanded a perfect Sim from CM and I never will. I always liked the physics of CMR or DiRT and of the RD-Series, too. It has always been a good mix of high-level-arcade and sim-ish physics, except for GRID2, what, in my eyes, was pure arcade in the worst possible way. I expect exactly that from a CM game, sim-ish! G:AS for me has by far the best engine so far of every RD/Grid issue. So in that case they did a brilliant job!
These 'small' problems, unfortunately, hit their peak in G:AS and even the previous titles had many design issues, that nobody except CM understood (I guess).
Getting rid of a rear view mirror for example is my absolute highlight. I still don't understand, how a team that develops nothing but racing games comes to the conclusion, that it would be a wise idea, to discard such an important thing and replace it with silly indicators on the bottom of the screen.
The first GRID then had collision-off races online, where cars didn't go transparent, when close to you. When in cockpit, bonnet or bumper view, you went blind. Cars that lagged, though, actually went transparent, so the code was there. This was never fixed.
They did things that weren't thought through properly and they still do. G:AS has even more things, that simply don't make sense. For many of these things I thought of better solutions that require hardly more coding (when starting them from scratch!) and I came up with them in 20 minutes. So that isn't an issue of money or a small team.

Sure, the rest is mostly well done. I still wish they'd do better sounds though. Playing NfS:Shift showed, that even simcades can have massive sounds that wreck your speakers. CM always did nice and clean sounds, but in all they sound too weak for me. Not a money issue as well, just mixing, but well, that's just my point of view and I can live with how it is now.

Making an appointment with @Loore, well, I don't think it's that easy. 1st, I have my standpoint that not everyone might share. 
2nd, I'm a student (no money) and live in southern Germany, so dropping by for a cup of coffee is off the table, though I'd like to do that. :D 
3rd, I think Loore is pretty busy at the moment.

About features, I guess you are wrong there. Sure, everybody would love to have dynamic weather, a working pit crew and what not, but that is really not essential. And a game every year is the expection of publishers to make lots of money. Look at NfS... for some time, it had a yearly issue and it got crappier every time. Engine was the same, bugs stayed the same(!), no new features, nothing improved. Just a different scenario and maybe 1 or 2 new/different cars. In a racing game I am fine with an issue every 3 years, but it has to be done well. This is not the usual single player game that you play through in 30 hours and that's it. Some or many play (one single) racing game(s) for houndreds or even thousands of hours. 

And in that case it is more important to me that what is included, works perfectly well and makes sense. If I have a RPGish online-mode, with leveling cars, earning money etc., that has to be properly balanced. As far as I read here, nothing will be changed in the current way (constant xp/money, regardless of racelength), rating it totally imba and therefore useless.
The repair costs will be fixed, so that it is simply less, but in its current state it doesn't add to the gameplay.
The club/friend thingy is annoyingly done aswell. Ingame I only see steam-friends (but not club) in racenet challenge, on racenet-website i have a separate friendlist and clubmembers. I have no indication, in what lobby my friends currently race in, neither an overview, nor a sign of any kind on a lobby. I'm only able to invite friends into a list to join a lobby together. That is something, that makes me furious. Who would come to the decision to make it that way and deem that 'good'? For me that's a case of 'we have this and we have that, let's see how to combine it somehow'. If I come online I'd like to see 'hey, friend XY is in that game, let's join him'... not possible.
In a game I play for 30 hours, that wouldn't bother me, but in a game I play for maaaany hours, the little things get way more important, as you experience these over and over again.

I think with your wooden tower, you are wrong. A different approach isn't always better. Sure, you can think about it, but if it doesn't outweigh the old way by far (or promises a better fundament for future additions), you keep it. (again, rear view mirror against indicators -> horrible, no use at all)
CMs game-tower might have gotten bigger over the years, but at many spots it thinned out... and that lead to an instable structure. ;) 
Don't forget, we're talking about racing games. You shouldn't reinvent the wheel here. The years have shown in many games, what is possible, what is useful. Some things simply are basic features, present in every racing game ever seen. Yes, a full cockpit is present in almost every game today, but I understand, that that might be too much for a small team, so I couldn't care less about that. What I want are essential features, that a racing game needs and that properly done. Everything else is a bonus (if done right).

And don't get me wrong, I'm not just hating about that game for no reason. I do that, because I actually care about that series. It was most times great fun and I'd like that to continue. So I do my best possible to hate and moan, that these issues are heard and maybe change their way of thinking, when talking about new features in future games. Take nothing for granted, question everything, that's what takes us ahead. Saying 'hey, awesome game, everything's fine' only leads to the same outcome as always.
I probably just repeated 90% of everything I already said here or in other threads, but hey, raises the chances for it to be seen. :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well it seems Codemaster is getting "bad luck", just read on a french gamingwebsite they decided to refund all the Steam players that have ordered that Colin McRea rallygame..... http://http//www.jeuxactu.com/colin-mcrae-rally-codemasters-va-rembourser-les-joueurs-steam-94579.htm "when the going get tough, the tough get going"
I guess they also will have an explanation like our Patch issue.
I think their next comment will be: "We are on the edge of the abyss, but we're making a big step forward! aouaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa."


@ThierryNeuville I hope you ask permission the real one to use his name lile that. As a Belgian I'm little upset you're using his name like that. Especially I doubt he would agree with what your putting down on this forum. Isn't Martijn good enough for you?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×