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Announcing DiRT 4

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Is the track editor based around scenery from the locations within the game or is it possible to make totally unique stages with wide variety of scenery and surfaces?

Weather conditions: Is Dirt 4 going back to the blazing sunshine and dusty tracks of Dirt's 2 + 3 or is it continuing the varying conditions seen in Dirt Rally?

Multiplayer: Do Codemasters plan on expanding Dirt 4 multiplayer to all disciplines within the game?


But beyond the questions I have to admit that I personally loathe everything about Dirt's 2+3 and am still scratching my head as to why CM have decided to go back to this 'jack of all trades' nonsense displayed in these games instead of expanding on the Dirt Rally experience. Sure, if the track editor is ultra flexible then yeah, a wealth of tracks - but is unlimited random really such a good idea? Call me old fashioned if you like but in my opinion the age old format of xx amount of tracks containing xx amount of stages or ribbons to learn, master and challenge real people's times on leaderboards (or online) is by far the most satisfying format available for those who just want to be competitive against others. Randomly created/generated layouts are all well and good for 'race once' purposes against friends but you have to take into consideration that not all your friends are going to buy the game and those that do may be far more interested in the leaderboard offerings of the default stuff - so after the initial novelty value a scenario may arise where you're simply creating tracks to race against yourself. Trackmania (XB1) was exactly the same. The Golf Club (XB1) was exactly the same.....

I think CM have missed the point a little here when user feedback was requesting more content lol. A dozen unique locations containing longer, varied stages structured within the existing Dirt Rally format was perhaps what people were craving. With Dirt Rally, Codemasters put an exceptional game on the table purely and simply because it wasn't a generic 'something for everyone' game - it was a product that was dedicated to a specific type of gamer. The only real things wrong with it was that it was woefully lacking in content and wasn't exactly what you would call user friendly.

I do wish Codemasters well with D4 and i'm sure many will be excited about it's up and coming release but after Dirt 2 and Dirt 3 I simply cannot face just another donut in just another stadium ever again.


They have said there are hundreds of predefined tracks. Just none of them follow real life routes because of licensing. They are clearly trying to make the best of a crummy situation that the FIA and wrc are putting them in. I woulda argue the track generator is the biggest innovation of dirt 4 by miles. If the pace notes work properly and the variation is good enough it will bring dirt 4 that much closer to the real thing and not allowing you to remember every tricky corner on a stage like you can now in DR. From the sound of it this will have far more predefined tracks than DR just not real life routes. the track generator is just icing on the top.

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I certainly hope it won't be like: 'Ohhh common another buggy/truck/geykhana/ event, gimme rallye!' as Dirt 3 was...

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Scyy said:
 


They have said there are hundreds of predefined tracks. Just none of them follow real life routes because of licensing. They are clearly trying to make the best of a crummy situation that the FIA and wrc are putting them in. I woulda argue the track generator is the biggest innovation of dirt 4 by miles. If the pace notes work properly and the variation is good enough it will bring dirt 4 that much closer to the real thing and not allowing you to remember every tricky corner on a stage like you can now in DR. From the sound of it this will have far more predefined tracks than DR just not real life routes. the track generator is just icing on the top.

I don't really think that real life locations is such a big issue because unless they actually live on a particular road / track featured in the game then the vast majority of people probably won't even know that locations aren't faithfully recreated to their real world counterparts. I see it that only real important thing is to create a game environment that captures the world flavour of rally by giving each location a unique feel and whilst the proposed track editor is indeed a very innovative idea it doesn't take away the fact that only having the ability to create an infinite number of layouts within a five location scenario won't ever create that world feeling a rally game should have. If Wales doesn't include a river or a lake within its predefined tracks can I create a layout with multiple bridges and sweeping lakeside tracks? I'm suspecting not because unless this thing is super innovative then I can only build with the bricks available - creating a scenario where it's simply infinite amounts of the same thing. Not exactly inspiring stuff.

Would Forza 6 or Project Cars have been a better game with just a handful of locations and a track editor to create an infinite number of variations within those locations? I don't think it would because even though the tarmac looks exactly the same wherever you are, the feeling of being somewhere different makes all the difference.

At the end of the day I guess it all boils down to personal taste. After purchasing Dirt 2 I chose not to buy Dirt 3 (and Showdown) for a specific reason and the more I look at it the more I see Dirt 4 as been a glorified version of previous incarnations of this horrific franchise. Others will disagree - that I am absolutely sure of.

Oh well, looks like i'm relying on Project Cars 2 to save the day this year. Oh joy.

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Yeah, Iv driven many a version of Ouninpohja and couldnt tell you which is most accurate, as Iv never been on the road in my time!


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Scyy said:
 


They have said there are hundreds of predefined tracks. Just none of them follow real life routes because of licensing. They are clearly trying to make the best of a crummy situation that the FIA and wrc are putting them in. I woulda argue the track generator is the biggest innovation of dirt 4 by miles. If the pace notes work properly and the variation is good enough it will bring dirt 4 that much closer to the real thing and not allowing you to remember every tricky corner on a stage like you can now in DR. From the sound of it this will have far more predefined tracks than DR just not real life routes. the track generator is just icing on the top.

I don't really think that real life locations is such a big issue because unless they actually live on a particular road / track featured in the game then the vast majority of people probably won't even know that locations aren't faithfully recreated to their real world counterparts. I see it that only real important thing is to create a game environment that captures the world flavour of rally by giving each location a unique feel and whilst the proposed track editor is indeed a very innovative idea it doesn't take away the fact that only having the ability to create an infinite number of layouts within a five location scenario won't ever create that world feeling a rally game should have. If Wales doesn't include a river or a lake within its predefined tracks can I create a layout with multiple bridges and sweeping lakeside tracks? I'm suspecting not because unless this thing is super innovative then I can only build with the bricks available - creating a scenario where it's simply infinite amounts of the same thing. Not exactly inspiring stuff.

Would Forza 6 or Project Cars have been a better game with just a handful of locations and a track editor to create an infinite number of variations within those locations? I don't think it would because even though the tarmac looks exactly the same wherever you are, the feeling of being somewhere different makes all the difference.

At the end of the day I guess it all boils down to personal taste. After purchasing Dirt 2 I chose not to buy Dirt 3 (and Showdown) for a specific reason and the more I look at it the more I see Dirt 4 as been a glorified version of previous incarnations of this horrific franchise. Others will disagree - that I am absolutely sure of.

Oh well, looks like i'm relying on Project Cars 2 to save the day this year. Oh joy.

I agreed with your post entirely until the last paragraph :P Trust me in that its not like Dirt 2 and 3 physics wise. The sim handling is DR but better, the arcade side is D3 but better. All the discplines have sim handling and are great fun :)

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At the end of the day I guess it all boils down to personal taste. After purchasing Dirt 2 I chose not to buy Dirt 3 (and Showdown) for a specific reason and the more I look at it the more I see Dirt 4 as been a glorified version of previous incarnations of this horrific franchise. Others will disagree - that I am absolutely sure of.

A lot of people seem to love DiRT 2 but, of all the main DiRT titles, it is one of my least liked. I thought DiRT 3 was a step back in the right direction and DiRT Rally was (and is) head and shoulders above anything else with the DiRT name on the box (in my personal opinion).

DiRT 4 is taking the mature approach of DiRT Rally and mixing it with the variety of DiRT 3. Unless something drastically changes from what has already been shown, I really believe that CM will please both the hardcore and casual audiences. 

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tbtstt said:
 

I really believe that CM will please both the hardcore and casual audiences. 

I think this is probably the key statement here.

The industry, these forums.....everybody with half a brain in their head have said exactly the same thing about Dirt Rally - it's the best thing Codemasters have made in a decade - period. A coincidence then that, just for once, a hardcore only audience was targeted?

I've played every single WRC game since 2010 and although the franchise has been blighted with some very adverse critisism throughout it's multiple licensee ownership, it has never once sold it's soul by tacking on various bits and pieces to pamper to the needs of commercialism - it has remained pure in every sense of the word. As a closet rally fan I don't play it because it's got eye popping visuals, is true to life or indeed represents the pinnacle of it's genre - I play it because all the game is asking me to do is go from A-B down lots and lots of stages in various countries and nothing more. If I ever feel the need to smash billboards, race offroad or donut my way to glory there are genre specific games out there for me to satisfy those needs. I like WRC for what it does - and not for what it is (if that makes any sense).

Dirt Rally in my eyes completely reinvented the Dirt franchise (a real throwback to the good old days of CMR) and was bought, played and loved because....well, that's quite obvious.


I'm not saying Dirt 4 is a bad thing, i'm just saying that if it is designed in much the same way as Dirt 2 was then in a similar fashion to the RX inclusion within DR, limited content within a particular discipline loses it's appeal very, very quickly and from a gaming perspective that's not a particularly good thing. Perhaps Dirt 4 minus the rally bits and a more comprehensive Dirt Rally 2 somewhere down the road would have been the wiser option.I don't know, but with all the praise Dirt Rally received it just seemed inconceivable that Codemasters would even consider going back to the multi-format days.

It's funny because I thought the 'big announcement' was going to be a TOCA game to replace Grid - with Codemasters effectively going back to square one with both franchises... How wrong was I then lol....


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tbtstt said:
 

I really believe that CM will please both the hardcore and casual audiences. 

I'm not saying Dirt 4 is a bad thing, i'm just saying that if it is designed in much the same way as Dirt 2 was then in a similar fashion to the RX inclusion within DR, limited content within a particular discipline loses it's appeal very, very quickly and from a gaming perspective that's not a particularly good thing. Perhaps Dirt 4 minus the rally bits and a more comprehensive Dirt Rally 2 somewhere down the road would have been the wiser option.I don't know, but with all the praise Dirt Rally received it just seemed inconceivable that Codemasters would even consider going back to the multi-format days.

The problem is that there were massive amount of people that DR was too hard for - a casual, arcade players. These are clients, that were whining a lot.

Me myself have given the proposition to make a slider arcade/sim/hardcore - just for that sake, so Codemasters would earn more money while both camp will be happy. And they did it which I'm really happy for because that way I'll have even more realistic setting in hardcore/fearless mode.

I don't know where do you see a problem here when excluding the less rally content (obviously, 3 disciplines = cars splitted between them). But that shouldn't be a problem if the game itself is successfull and well sold - then we can all expect a DLC which was also whined for alot for DR. 



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I just wish Fearless mode was a whole lot more Hardcore!!! :)

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tbtstt said:
 

I really believe that CM will please both the hardcore and casual audiences. 

I think this is probably the key statement here.

The industry, these forums.....everybody with half a brain in their head have said exactly the same thing about Dirt Rally - it's the best thing Codemasters have made in a decade - period. A coincidence then that, just for once, a hardcore only audience was targeted?



Unfortunately it wasn't the most financially successful however so I can see the direction they're taking for D4 and am fully on board with it as they've definitely found that spot that will indeed please both hardcore and casual audiences

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I think I can see where @BorisTheFrog is coming from: the danger of trying to please everyone, is that you produce something that sits in the middle of audiences and doesn't manage to satisfy either. 

Concerning this...

I don't know, but with all the praise Dirt Rally received it just seemed inconceivable that Codemasters would even consider going back to the multi-format days.

...I daresay the reasoning is obvious: DiRT 2 and especially DiRT 3, sold very well. I know that the vast majority of members on this forum are looking for a focused rally experience, but we are a niche audience and, if companies like CM are to survive, they have to produce games with mainstream appeal. 

Having been able to get hands on with DiRT 4, I know it is capable of delivering the same experience as DiRT Rally. The rally car handling has been polished and the rallycross cars completely overhauled, not to make them easier to drive, but to make the cars more realistic. 

I can't comment on the development process of games (as I haven't got a clue), but if you remember back when DiRT 3 was released, CM spoke about aids that could be turned off to make the game more challenging. For DiRT 4 they are now talking about aids that can be turned on, to make the experience less punishing. I personally see DiRT Rally at the core of this game, but with more options added to make things easier for the casual (mainstream) players. 

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I know that many will have already asked the .... But you know what cars there will be in this game? I hope the 208 r5 or wrc old or next generation

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Thierry97 said:
I know that many will have already asked the .... But you know what cars there will be in this game? I hope the 208 r5 or wrc old or next generation
Follow this thread: http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/48873/dirt-4-confirmed-car-list/p1

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Unfortunately it wasn't the most financially successful however so I can see the direction they're taking for D4 and am fully on board with it as they've definitely found that spot that will indeed please both hardcore and casual audiences

I wasn't aware of that. To be totally honest (from vaguely remembered comments) I thought that from a financial point of view DR did quite well and it was actually the early Dirt's that didn't meet up to sales expectations - hence the negative company profits and need to adopt crowd funding in order to finance Dirt Rally. Well that's just what I assumed anyway.

But yeah, it's good to see that you and others have embraced Dirt 4 in such a way that there is optimism for it's success. Unfortunately I kind of remember the Codemasters of old when a game was good enough (and commercially successful enough) to not have to include a wide variety of bits and pieces in order to make it more appealing to a general audience, so for that reason I do struggle to share your enthusiasm.

It's early days though and a lot is going to happen between now and June so maybe I'm being just a little bit too pessimistic - who knows. What I will be interested in is, aside from the rally (which appears to be five), exactly how many unique locations each of the other disciplines will have because that determines how much of a 'complete' experience this game is going to be.


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Love it that the DirtFish Rallyschool will be in DiRT4, best logo and liveries a rally school can have :-). Oh and i hope DiRT4 will be as dirty as DiRT2 was, man what a cool mud :wink:

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Hate to tell you all, but the track editor is far from innovative. Need for speed rally v2 had it on play station ONE where YOU made the track. Not a random computer generated pile. You wont be making any tracks your own way in dirt 4. Not yet anyways 

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Hello guys

i have Dirt Rally for Xbox One and i too hoped for  a DLC with more Rallys like mexico the other Finland rally and updated cars and now i too learn no such thing is going to happen makes me very dissapointed as i feel the Rally´s that are in Dirt Rally are good but they are the same no matter level of Championship and there is no real competitor to Dirt rally with more complete Rally venues and cars well guess we have to wait for a real good Rally Sim to come around with updated countrys and cars i have Heard that the WRC series daoesn´t really compete with Dirt Rally in every aspect You guys must have noticed how Popular Dirt Rally is and just say you will not release any DLC what so ever is just, so dissapointing i do hope you change youre decision about DLC since the game really needs it

well that´s my thoughts about this wouderful game it is a real Gem don´t let it go to waste Codemasters

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Race43 said:

Hello guys

i have Dirt Rally for Xbox One and i too hoped for  a DLC with more Rallys like mexico the other Finland rally and updated cars and now i too learn no such thing is going to happen makes me very dissapointed as i feel the Rally´s that are in Dirt Rally are good but they are the same no matter level of Championship and there is no real competitor to Dirt rally with more complete Rally venues and cars well guess we have to wait for a real good Rally Sim to come around with updated countrys and cars i have Heard that the WRC series daoesn´t really compete with Dirt Rally in every aspect You guys must have noticed how Popular Dirt Rally is and just say you will not release any DLC what so ever is just, so dissapointing i do hope you change youre decision about DLC since the game really needs it

well that´s my thoughts about this wouderful game it is a real Gem don´t let it go to waste Codemasters

Not to be rude or anything, but please make better use of punctuation; commas and whatnot. It would make your post a lot easier to read.

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Any word on whether rewinds are back? It would go a really long way in reducing frustration. Honestly doubt I'll even buy the game if they aren't, purely because I don't have the necessary time to learn the courses and the bad calls like some of Dirt Rally's corners had. "Left 3, Right 3" *Right hander is 4x as sharp* I know there are some people who don't want it added because they have no self control, but that's no reason to punish everyone else. Plus, with rewinds maybe I'll actually be able to keep some of my friends playing for more than a couple weeks this time.

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Any word on whether rewinds are back? It would go a really long way in reducing frustration. Honestly doubt I'll even buy the game if they aren't, purely because I don't have the necessary time to learn the courses and the bad calls like some of Dirt Rally's corners had. "Left 3, Right 3" *Right hander is 4x as sharp* I know there are some people who don't want it added because they have no self control, but that's no reason to punish everyone else. Plus, with rewinds maybe I'll actually be able to keep some of my friends playing for more than a couple weeks this time.
Nobody can learn the tracks, because they're all randomly generated. Nobody's being punished if it's not being added - everyone is required to put in equal amounts of effort.

If your friends can't stick to a game for more than a couple of weeks, they have a very short attention span.

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Any word on whether rewinds are back? It would go a really long way in reducing frustration. Honestly doubt I'll even buy the game if they aren't, purely because I don't have the necessary time to learn the courses and the bad calls like some of Dirt Rally's corners had. "Left 3, Right 3" *Right hander is 4x as sharp* I know there are some people who don't want it added because they have no self control, but that's no reason to punish everyone else. Plus, with rewinds maybe I'll actually be able to keep some of my friends playing for more than a couple weeks this time.
Nobody can learn the tracks, because they're all randomly generated. Nobody's being punished if it's not being added - everyone is required to put in equal amounts of effort.

If your friends can't stick to a game for more than a couple of weeks, they have a very short attention span.
No, they just enjoy fun games and not games specifically designed to be completely unforgiving. I've been playing sim racers since the 90s, and even I didn't last long in Dirt Rally, because I didn't have the time required to have any sort of consistency in that game. Which just made it a frustrating mess. I realize some people are masochist, but the fact is, having options like rewinds makes the game drastically less frustrating and fun for people with lives outside of gaming (especially lives like mine that often times mean I'm not home for weeks at a time) or people who play more than just one game/genre. And lets face it, it doesn't hurt people who don't want it unless they are too stupid and weak minded to simply not use it.

Dirt rally probably was one of the only racing games I ever actually liked that never reached triple digit hours played. And it was purely because coming back after not playing for awhile was just a frustrating experience, nothing quite as not fun as coming back mid championship in group B. Unlike say, F1 2016, where I came back to play having stopped at the start of a race on a track I couldn't fully remember. I was able to use a few rewinds til I got my feet under me again, and had a lot of fun. Started playing both 2 weeks ago after months, Dirt Rally is no longer on my SSD. 

Even going back to league racing on Pcars wasn't as frustrating as trying to get back into Dirt Rally. Largely because I remember the tracks, and wrecking out on the very last corner because my -non existent- co-driver makes a terrible call doesn't happen.

At some point, all the elitist idiots are going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is a video game series, and video games need to be fun for a decent range of people so they can be profitable, thus funding more video games. And then the option should be restored so more people will enjoy the game. Because honestly what's going to happen if CM refuses to do simple things like that, is they will not make enough, and then we'll end up with a completely arcade game all over again, or worse yet, no more dirt games for years again.

All that said, it sounds like I need to read up, because if all the tracks are just random generated, the game is almost guaranteed to be bad, especially if it lacks rewinds.

TLDR, not everyone has all the time in the world to play video games, and rewinds help people like that enjoy the game far more.

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Any word on whether rewinds are back? It would go a really long way in reducing frustration. Honestly doubt I'll even buy the game if they aren't, purely because I don't have the necessary time to learn the courses and the bad calls like some of Dirt Rally's corners had. "Left 3, Right 3" *Right hander is 4x as sharp* I know there are some people who don't want it added because they have no self control, but that's no reason to punish everyone else. Plus, with rewinds maybe I'll actually be able to keep some of my friends playing for more than a couple weeks this time.
Rally is not about learning stages, it's about relying on your co-driver, and aside from career, there won't be any fixed stages, it's all gonna be randomly generated so you're gonna have a new stage every time

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Any word on whether rewinds are back? It would go a really long way in reducing frustration. Honestly doubt I'll even buy the game if they aren't, purely because I don't have the necessary time to learn the courses and the bad calls like some of Dirt Rally's corners had. "Left 3, Right 3" *Right hander is 4x as sharp* I know there are some people who don't want it added because they have no self control, but that's no reason to punish everyone else. Plus, with rewinds maybe I'll actually be able to keep some of my friends playing for more than a couple weeks this time.
Nobody can learn the tracks, because they're all randomly generated. Nobody's being punished if it's not being added - everyone is required to put in equal amounts of effort.

If your friends can't stick to a game for more than a couple of weeks, they have a very short attention span.
No, they just enjoy fun games and not games specifically designed to be completely unforgiving. I've been playing sim racers since the 90s, and even I didn't last long in Dirt Rally, because I didn't have the time required to have any sort of consistency in that game. Which just made it a frustrating mess. I realize some people are masochist, but the fact is, having options like rewinds makes the game drastically less frustrating and fun for people with lives outside of gaming (especially lives like mine that often times mean I'm not home for weeks at a time) or people who play more than just one game/genre. And lets face it, it doesn't hurt people who don't want it unless they are too stupid and weak minded to simply not use it.

Dirt rally probably was one of the only racing games I ever actually liked that never reached triple digit hours played. And it was purely because coming back after not playing for awhile was just a frustrating experience, nothing quite as not fun as coming back mid championship in group B. Unlike say, F1 2016, where I came back to play having stopped at the start of a race on a track I couldn't fully remember. I was able to use a few rewinds til I got my feet under me again, and had a lot of fun. Started playing both 2 weeks ago after months, Dirt Rally is no longer on my SSD. 

Even going back to league racing on Pcars wasn't as frustrating as trying to get back into Dirt Rally. Largely because I remember the tracks, and wrecking out on the very last corner because my -non existent- co-driver makes a terrible call doesn't happen.

At some point, all the elitist idiots are going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is a video game series, and video games need to be fun for a decent range of people so they can be profitable, thus funding more video games. And then the option should be restored so more people will enjoy the game. Because honestly what's going to happen if CM refuses to do simple things like that, is they will not make enough, and then we'll end up with a completely arcade game all over again, or worse yet, no more dirt games for years again.

All that said, it sounds like I need to read up, because if all the tracks are just random generated, the game is almost guaranteed to be bad, especially if it lacks rewinds.

TLDR, not everyone has all the time in the world to play video games, and rewinds help people like that enjoy the game far more.
The target audience are rallyists though. They have an arcade mode where all assists are enabled. If that's not enough for yous to "have fun", then I guess you're not as big a rally fan as you think you are.

There are people with even less time to play than yourself that still manages to put the effort into a game to become great, while still maintaining a full-time job, as well as having a partner. I know quite a few of these individuals, and I respect them all the more for it. Backalley is one of these people. He has 332 hours played in Dirt Rally since early access - compared to my 1770 hours - and I can't touch him most of the time when he's properly going for it.

So you see, it's not as much about time, as putting the effort into actually becoming a good driver.

If you're not willing to put the necessary effort into the game, perhaps it is time to look around for something else. I mean no disrespect, of course - but really, they're making a game that is supposed to give people the best (virtual!) rally experience money can buy. Surely it's worth to put some effort into - even if there aren't any rewinds?

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