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Invasive auto clutch

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To start off, I love basically everything about this game. I am currently playing on PC, and have been into hardcore simulation racing ever since the Gran Turismo days, and have many hours playing Forza and its horizon series.  A few years ago I purchased a TX racing wheel with T3PA pedals and TH8A shifter, as I like to get as authentic a feel as possible.  

I started noticing after a few races in rally cross super cars that when getting too much angle in a AWD drift, the game engine would automatically engage the clutch, wait a full 0.5 to 1 second, then give you power back.  Now this is fine if you have a controller where its not practical to use a clutch and keeping the revs up is important, but with my set up this is killing the gaming experience for me.  Yes, I have tried every single combination of transmission setting, all the assists are off as i never play with them in any game, yet this mechanic is still trying to "help" whenever I get passed what seems to be 45 degrees of angle in a corner.  Every other game ive played with high horsepower AWD cars, doing donuts and entering into corners nearly backwards has never been an issue as you either stall or power out of it.  This mechanic for the clutch kick is very broken in that you cannot turn it off.  Why is it so difficult in a simulation racing experience to be given full control of your car without a magic clutch disengaging power every other slide?  This whole game is built on hooning and crazy slides!!  If you need a demonstration of what I'm talking about I'll gladly post a video on the forums to give you an idea.  

If you can show me an AWD car doing tight donuts with the steering at full lock at full throttle I will stand corrected, because I think it cant be done.

Any advice on if im missing something in the settings, or anything else I can do to just let me drive the car without this clutch mechanic would be greatly appreciated.

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I don't think its the clutch, its in the tarmac physics where when you get very sideways, the wheels seem to lose grip in some way and just spin the wheels on the spot before taking off. Its an in-game thing which won't be fixed since Dirt 4 is coming out in a few months with vastly improved physics

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Yeah, I don't think it's the clutch either. I use manual sequential mode with a controller, so the clutch is automatic unless I press it myself (clutch override is on) and I've never had the clutch actually interfere with my driving, under any circumstance. Since you're using the H-pattern as well the clutch should be entirely player-controlled. Try to stall it while parked at the start line, if it lets you stall then it's not interfering. The rallycross supercars didn't get all the physics updates that the rest of the cars got during the early access period (they didn't have time to redo them), so there's some weirdness there anyway.

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The clutch kick mechanic is definitely worse on the rallycross cars, to the point where I cant even drive them anymore.  It does seem a little less invasive on traditional rally stages.  The easiest test to see this in action is a tight hairpin with any of the rally cross cars.  Approach the corner at a decent speed in say 3rd gear and hit the ebrake with the throttle wide open, as soon as the angle goes past a certain degree, the rpms start bouncing off the rev limiter and no power goes to the tires.  Its not a matter of wheel spin or traction loss, but the drivetrain being completely disconnected, then reconnected.  Any turn I come into aggressively like this nets the same result; power being kicked off mid slide to be turned back on again once your car has slowed down/straightened out a bit.  

Dirt 4 cant come soon enough, cause the rallycross is crazy fun when the game mechanics arent constantly fucking with power delivery.

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https://youtu.be/dvtaxU5Vi6o

Here is the video of what I'm talking about.  I never hit the clutch, and the foot is full throttle the entire corner.  you can see how long it takes the drivetrain to turn back on.

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https://youtu.be/dvtaxU5Vi6o

Here is the video of what I'm talking about.  I never hit the clutch, and the foot is full throttle the entire corner.  you can see how long it takes the drivetrain to turn back on.

It's not clutch. It's wheels spinning in one place. Once they've got the grip the RPM goes down. It's natural. 

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versedi said:
https://youtu.be/dvtaxU5Vi6o

Here is the video of what I'm talking about.  I never hit the clutch, and the foot is full throttle the entire corner.  you can see how long it takes the drivetrain to turn back on.

It's not clutch. It's wheels spinning in one place. Once they've got the grip the RPM goes down. It's natural. 
I just watched the clip and I thought the same thing, that's wheel spin isn't it?  

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tbtstt said:
versedi said:

I just watched the clip and I thought the same thing, that's wheel spin isn't it?  
IMHO it is buuuut...it is exagerated because of something else weird going on unless you fiddle with car setup alot. 

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You could lock the diff and see what happens. Might be that just the right rear wheel is spinning as the weight is on the left. It is kind of a weird transition though looking at the way the engine drops rpm that way. It's not natural for one wheel to spin and then all of a sudden get all it's grip back 2 seconds after the the car has settled, not like that at least. You'd expect the rpm's to stay high as the car gradually get's some grip back.

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Yeah that is not acting like it should. It's like the car just "folds over" when going passed tge tires slip angle?

I believe I managed to iron this out on the DS3 WRX in the setup screen at some point but can't remember what I changed.

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Tyres only have so usable much grip.  
You either use the grip to push the car forward/brake, or to stop it from slipping sideward when cornering, OR a shared blend of both (drift).

The car shouldn't 'stop' as it does in the above video.  As the car goes sideways and slows, demand for corner grip reduces, the tyre will have more grip available to accelerate and the car would gradually go from full sideways slide, to a drift, to forward acceleration in a steady transition.

Its as if the cars are too light to produce enough grip to cause the feeling of transition.  

As you see in the video, its all (moving) or nothing (stopped).  

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It does look weird, but it doesn't look like the clutch at all. It looks like all 4 wheels are spinning due to lost traction, you're not countersteering much so the car is sliding completely sideways, you lose momentum as you should, but then instead of transitioning into forward movement when it bites, it almost stops first, and then bites.

 Keep in mind that while the rally cars got physics improvements during the early access period, they didn't have time to overhaul the rallycross supercars as much, so they are a bit outdated, particularly regarding aerodynamics; they don't have the "V2" aero that the other cars do. Aero has a really significant affect on the car's behavior so it's possible that the car is stopping because the game isn't handling the aero properly when it's pointing that far sideways. 

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I can guarantee its not tire slippage.  Ive done hours upon hours of drifting in all the forza games with AWD set ups without issue.  Basically whats happening is there is a game mechanic in the physics engine that tries to "help" you by auto clutch kicking if it thinks your angle has gotten too aggressive, or a number of other parameters are met I'm sure.  This is probably implemented due to the amount of controller users having no way to use a clutch via a button, so it just automatically does it for you.  

What blows me away is there is no possible away to turn this off.  In a game where milliseconds and drift angles with proper timing are key to going fast, the fact you cant have complete control over the power delivery is laughable.  Obviously at this point Codemasters isnt going to do anything about it with Dirt 4 on the horizon, and I'm fine with that.  I just really hope this mechanic doesn't force its way into that game without the ability to truly turn everything off.

I could post another video showcasing this even further; all you need to do is attempt an AWD donut.  You can then see just how broken the physics engine really is.

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https://youtu.be/uP9WBYMKqCI

So here's a quick demo of what I'm talking about.  I am at full steering lock, full throttle in both cars.  You can see what the game engine is doing, vs what is supposed to happen demonstrated in project cars.  The Audi's drivetrain is never disconnected hence the tire circle donut it can do with its AWD system.

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https://youtu.be/uP9WBYMKqCI

So here's a quick demo of what I'm talking about.  I am at full steering lock, full throttle in both cars.  You can see what the game engine is doing, vs what is supposed to happen demonstrated in project cars.  The Audi's drivetrain is never disconnected hence the tire circle donut it can do with its AWD system.
Your car setup is completely fu**** for donuts, I can see that.  

There's an issue with donuts but stop talking like all physics are complete trash. 
PC is only tarmac game, why didnt you tried that on gravel in DR which is far more better?

Sorry if I sound badly but you're style in which you're giving "feedback" is aggressive and a little bit annoying. 

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You cant do donuts in Dirt Rally. 

My guess is the virtual weight of the car isn't great enough to exert enough centrifugal force to push you on round.  The car does stop mid circle, takes off again and repeats.  

I did get the M3 to do a donut, but it was on gravel where the grip would have been slightly less...
 

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Versedi I am simply reaching out to see if anyone else has noticed this.  It has nothing to do with the tune of the car at all.  It also has nothing to do with the surface being tarmac or gravel.  The physics engine is very good 99% of the time, with this game mechanic being the only hiccup.  If your going to have a broken English emotional outburst because you cant wrap your brain around how a car is supposed to react under these conditions don't bother responding.  But we all know your going to right? Cant have an analytical discussion without a few dummies chiming in with their worthless opinion that answers nothing.

I'm done with this thread, because if that video cant illustrate very clearly what's going on then nothing will.

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Hopefully it's sorted for D4.                               

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I can guarantee its not tire slippage.  Ive done hours upon hours of drifting in all the forza games with AWD set ups without issue.  Basically whats happening is there is a game mechanic in the physics engine that tries to "help" you by auto clutch kicking if it thinks your angle has gotten too aggressive, or a number of other parameters are met I'm sure.  This is probably implemented due to the amount of controller users having no way to use a clutch via a button, so it just automatically does it for you.  

What blows me away is there is no possible away to turn this off.  In a game where milliseconds and drift angles with proper timing are key to going fast, the fact you cant have complete control over the power delivery is laughable.  Obviously at this point Codemasters isnt going to do anything about it with Dirt 4 on the horizon, and I'm fine with that.  I just really hope this mechanic doesn't force its way into that game without the ability to truly turn everything off.

I could post another video showcasing this even further; all you need to do is attempt an AWD donut.  You can then see just how broken the physics engine really is.
If it's a clutch kick, why do the tyres continue to screech?

its Physics, not clutch.  Listen the tyres....

Why get arsey when you ask for an opinion, but won't listen the answers?

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Areyouben said:
Why not create the same video with the chase cam turned to the side. Then you can clearly see if the wheels keep turning orrnah.
No video, but I just tried it myself, doing donuts in the Fiesta. The wheels don't stop spinning or even slow, and the skid sounds don't stop. If you stab the clutch manually during the donut, the skid sounds DO stop and the wheels bite briefly.

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BadD0g said:
Areyouben said:
Why not create the same video with the chase cam turned to the side. Then you can clearly see if the wheels keep turning orrnah.
No video, but I just tried it myself, doing donuts in the Fiesta. The wheels don't stop spinning or even slow, and the skid sounds don't stop. If you stab the clutch manually during the donut, the skid sounds DO stop and the wheels bite briefly.

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